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The Science of Stout Beer

Posted by samzenpus on from the tiny-complex-bubbles dept.

An AC writes "Mathematicians invented a new method to can and bottle stout beers like Guinness while still getting that satisfying head. From the article: '... a crack group of mathematicians from the University of Limerick, led by William Lee, has modeled bubble formation in stout beers in detail. Their work suggests that lining the rims of cans and bottles with a material similar to an ordinary coffee filter would be a simpler, cheaper alternative to the widget. The team’s calculations show that a copious number of bubbles would form from air trapped inside the hollow fibers making up this lining. They have just submitted their work for publication in Physical Review E and are hoping that industry will soon begin testing their proposal.'"

26 of 205 comments (clear)

  1. The science of better Guinness by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 2

    Now that's science I'll raise my drink to!

    1. Re:The science of better Guinness by khr · · Score: 2

      As an Irishman, I don't know how anyone can drink Guinness.

      Though a non Irishman (never mind my Irish first name or my high school sports team being the Waldport Irish) I agree... Guiness is close to one of my last choices in stouts... My preference runs towards some of the Portland, Oregon microbrewery stouts, especially the cask conditioned ones...

    2. Re:The science of better Guinness by DrgnDancer · · Score: 2

      Meh, It's not a bad stout. There are better, in Ireland, England, or the States (probably other places too, but those are the ones I've had stout in ), but it's got the advantage of being both fairly decent and readily available in a lot of places. In the US particularly it's a very common "nod" to better quality beer in places that otherwise have only crap. It and Sam Adams Lager are two beers that one can often find in places that otherwise only serve Budweiser and Miller Macro brew stuff. If I'm in a place that has lots of good beer, Guinness falls pretty low on my list (though its low alcohol content can make it a better choice later in the evening), but if I'm with friends at a less choosy sports bar or something It's often a nice choice.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    3. Re:The science of better Guinness by kelemvor4 · · Score: 2

      Originally, perhaps. If you look at a recent bottle (at least the one I have here) it says it was brewed and bottled in Canada. Now days, Guinness = Canadian beer.

    4. Re:The science of better Guinness by amRadioHed · · Score: 2

      As an Irishman you should know what a beer is at least, why are you comparing Bulmers to Guinness? If I want a beer I would consider a Guinness but I sure as hell won't be ordering a cider!

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    5. Re:The science of better Guinness by SockPuppetOfTheWeek · · Score: 2

      The country where greak food comes from, obviously.

    6. Re:The science of better Guinness by Local+ID10T · · Score: 2

      As an Irishman you are somehow able to tell everyone what is good and what is bad?

      Yes, at least when it comes to beer and whiskey.

      --
      "You want to know how to help your kids? Leave them the fuck alone." -George Carlin
    7. Re:The science of better Guinness by GooberToo · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is very true.

      People love to make fun of American beers but in doing so completely expose their bias and/or general ignorance. The reality is, American beers actually re-invented beer making. The beer before the resurgence of beer making in America largely existed because their grandfather made beer and that was good enough. Whereas, American beer grew because people wanted something which tasted good. And beer sold based on that notion. Before such a market existed, people purchased beer because it was a necessity of life*.

      Of course, this doesn't mean all American beers are excellent or even good. Anyone whos had a variety of any country's beers will tell you otherwise; which isn't even account for individual differences in preferences. Just the same, if you want to drink a beer that largely drunk because your father's father drank it, drink something other than American beer. On the other hand, if you want to drink a beer which is around almost solely because it tastes good and is refreshing, give an American micro brew a chance.

      So ask yourself, are you drinking beer because someone's great, great grandfather liked it and you've trained your buds to believe that is what tastes good, or are you drinking it because it really tastes good to you? An exceedingly large number of beer snobs fall into the former category. Which IMOHO, completely undermines the entire basis of their snobbery.

      (*) Its important to remember, in times past, beer wasn't drank because it tasted good. Beer was largely consumed because it was safer (more pure, less contamination, fewer bugs, slightly pro-antibiotic) than water. Furthermore, for many people, it was a primary source of nutrition. As such, most really old beer recipes exist primarily for their shelve life and nutritional value with taste being a far second priority. This is, in fact, why many people went to work drunk, or at least diminished, and why coffee became a critical necessity of the industrial revolution. Those who didn't drink coffee to counter act the effects of high beer intake were far more likely to be maimed or killed.

    8. Re:The science of better Guinness by vegiVamp · · Score: 2

      As a Belgian - yeah, we brew it - I have to say that I'm not particularly fond of Leffe, either; although I certainly wouldn't say it tastes like rotten fruit. Leffe, like most of the "premium belgian beers" you get on your side of the water, is an Inbev product, and it shows. These are the people who tried to move production of Hoegaarden from Hoegaarden to Jupille, found that you can't just move beer brewing around and expect to get the same results, got probably around three-quarters of all the batches brewed to be undrinkable to the point of simply pouring it away and in the process of trying to fill their pockets (sorry, I mean "optimising the potential synergies", of course) pretty much put half of belgium out of Hoegaarden for six months.

      Yeah, these people certainly know what brewing beer is all about.

      I can't think of a single Inbev beer that I'll voluntarily touch with a ten-foot pole. Hell, even Heineken has a handful of reasonable beers - but at least they're smart enough to leave the brewing to the brewers. Op-Ale is still made in Opwijk (as is Affligem, incidentally), and they've even got Mort Subite, a reasonably decent traditional gueuze.

      /beerrant

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    9. Re:The science of better Guinness by GooberToo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Most people that I know of that make fun of "American beers" are making fun of the absolute shit carrying the budweiser, michelob, coors, etc "big" brands.

      But in doing so, they are exposing massive ignorance. The fact is, its far, far harder to control quality on lightly flavored beer than it is on rubusto, old world beers. This is something even Samuel Adams* is quick to point out. The fact is, when you have a light flavor, the smallest hint of skunk or a screwup in quality is immediately noticeable. Whereas, in darker, heavier flavored beers, you can almost literally place a skunk into the beer and most will hide it. That's the point.

      Now if you want to argue you simply don't like the flavor, I certainly don't have a problem with that. More power too you! Regardless, the simple fact is, the required quality of those, "inferior beers", sadly, almost always exceeds those, by far, which others openly brag about. Add to the fact they are obtaining and maintaining such high quality at such massive scales is all the more embarrassing for those other, typically European, brands.

      As you say, there are plenty of American micro- and regional- breweries making great beer.

      At one point in time, early in American's history, America had more micro breweries than did Europe. America literally became king of the brew. At this point in time, American offered greater quality and taste. A lot of European brewers followed. And in fact, much of what is considered European brew was directly lifted from American breweries. It became a full circle (Europe -> America -> Europe). Eventually, larger brewers took over because of bottling technology improvement meant the death of smaller brewers; who sometimes did lack in quality and consistency. With the exception of the highly specialized brews, where personal preference is highly subjective, American's microbreweries represent the best beers the world has to offer. That not to say European beers are paled in comparison. What I'm saying is, American, in its own right, has a proud beer tradition which easily rivals that of the best of traditional European beers.

      Which means, at the end of the day, almost without fail, those ridiculing any segment of the American beer market are actually exposing their ineptitude and ignorance for beer in general; begging to be entirely ignored. At the end of the day, the flavor is all that matters; be it a heavy, all absorbing tone or a light, refreshing accent, and everything in between. It either speaks to you or it doesn't. Regardless, you can't shake a finger at American big brand beer as being inferior - as factually and scientifically, its not. This is a simple truth which any honest industry Brew Master will share.

      (*) Please note, I refer you to Samuel Adams not because I endorse their product but because they are a highly regarded and highly acclaimed American brewery; even outside of the US.

    10. Re:The science of better Guinness by billcopc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Canada has American-style beer, which dominates the market due to excessive marketing and abusive exclusivity deals with the mainstream bars.

      Many, many years ago we had a commercial for (i think) Molson Canadian, which poked fun at American beers: "If I wanted water, I'd ask for water. No thanks!" It still tasted like faded piss, but the true irony is that Molson eventually merged with Coors, so the company that compared beer to water is now selling the world's most watery beer, and at least here in Ottawa they are practically shoving it down our throats with excessive promotion and abusive exclusivity deals. I once attended a Superbowl party at a bar, where they only served Coors Light for the event. You couldn't even order a rail drink.

      I can't tell if it's a beer geek thing, but all the mass-marketed brands are repulsive to me. Coors, Keiths, Labatt 50, Heineken, Stella, Guinness. It doesn't matter what country it's from, if they pimp it on TV, chances are it's going to be awful. I guess that goes to show that marketing trumps quality, every goddamned time.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    11. Re:The science of better Guinness by dwywit · · Score: 2

      Indeed. Guinness from a tap in Eire tastes different (better) than just about anywhere else. I was impressed with the number of Guinness company cars parked outside Irish pubs - I thought they were just out delivering promo gear (like bar towels?). I eventually asked a publican about it, and he told me that they're visited regularly for quality control purposes - all aspects of the delivery system are checked - temperature, pressure, cleanliness, etc.

      Guinness here in OZ doesn't taste as good, unfortunately, and even the widget cans are disappointing. BTW, Beamish is a smoother, creamier stout that I found in a few pubs - Murphy's wasn't bad, either.

      --
      They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
    12. Re:The science of better Guinness by mug+funky · · Score: 2

      don't laugh, but my wife is like that too.

      her partial cerebral palsy makes her the target of many an ignorant bouncer.

      it's good to see the look on their faces when they realize they're risking their jobs by refusing her entry.

      especially if she really is drunk :)

  2. Finally... by kj_kabaje · · Score: 2

    a *practical* use for mathematics.

    1. Re:Finally... by Celarent+Darii · · Score: 2

      Actually Guiness has quite a history of practical application of mathematics.

      Namely, the Student distribution (or t-distribution), known to any statistics student, was developed by Gosset of Guiness brewery.

      More here:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Sealy_Gosset

  3. Satisfying head by Hatta · · Score: 4, Funny

    That's appropriate. Canned and bottled beer has always helped me get satisfying head.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    1. Re:Satisfying head by HornWumpus · · Score: 3, Funny

      We really don't want to know how you get the flavor out of your mouth.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  4. Late to the game by pthisis · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Their work suggests that lining the rims of cans and bottles with a material similar to an ordinary coffee filter would be a simpler, cheaper alternative to the widget.

    The good people at Guinness have already figured out the widgetless bottle; as of early this year, their draught bottles no longer contain a floating widget (at least in the US).

    --
    rage, rage against the dying of the light
    1. Re:Late to the game by adeft · · Score: 2

      I've read a few posts from beer snobs on other forums saying it's a travesty of justice and doesn't get the same pour. As an American Irish, I still very much like this beer.

  5. Not the same by rizzo420 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I can only assume the post is talking solely about stouts like Guinness Draught in a nitro-can that has a widget to release nitrogen. There is more to what that widget does than just give the beer a nice creamy head. It gives the entire beer a different mouthfeel, and that's because of the nitrogen, not carbon dioxide (though the beer does already contain carbon dioxide. So, if they want the same effect, you'll still need a widget (or in the case of the bottled Guinness Draught, the proper mix of the gases). However, nitrogen dulls the flavor of the beer. So the effect this story talks about would not leave the beer the same...

    --
    please me, have no regrets.
  6. The right way to do it. by bcf · · Score: 2
    Forget widgets. Here's what you need.

    And, of course, a keg of stout from your better supplied liquor outlet.
    Stout nirvana awaits.

    1. Re:The right way to do it. by Silentknyght · · Score: 2

      Forget widgets. Here's what you need.

      And, of course, a keg of stout from your better supplied liquor outlet.

      Stout nirvana awaits.

      For the people who prefer Guinness, I think the investment for homebrewed draft stout is a wee heavy.

  7. Not quite... by denzacar · · Score: 2

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness#Worldwide_sales

    About 40% of worldwide total Guinness volume is brewed and sold in Africa, with Foreign Extra Stout the most popular variant. The Michael Power advertising campaign was a critical success for Guinness in Africa, running for nearly a decade before being replaced in 2006 with "Guinness Greatness".

    Guinness Stout is brewed under licence internationally in several countries, including Nigeria,[69][70] the Bahamas, Canada[71], and Indonesia.[72] The unfermented but hopped Guinness wort extract is shipped from Dublin and blended with beer brewed locally.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  8. Beer research from the University of Limerick? by inviolet · · Score: 2

    Clearly, this event justifies a limerick:

    A student at Limerick college
    Expanded our stout beer knowledge,
    As a means to the end
    of drinking with friends;
    This much he should acknowledge.

    --
    FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
  9. The Science of Brew Masters by plopez · · Score: 2

    At a near by Uni. where I live they have a brew master's program. There is great enthusiasm among new undergrads until they learn what the pre-requirements for the program are: biology, chemistry, physics, statistics, and all the math courses required for those courses. Then except for a dedicated few, their enthusiasm fades. Even so there is a waiting list.

    In the course they brew up a batch of good beer which is then only sold at the beer garden of the Uni. The proceeds go back into the program to fund it. Having sampled a bit I will tell you it is very tasty. Hats off to those students, their professors, and their advisers. Or perhaps "cheers" would be more appropriate.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  10. Re:Beer is overrated anyway by sdguero · · Score: 2

    Rice is in a lot of beers. Pretty much all Asian beers have rice in them. And none of them taste like Zima. Worldwide, more beer is sold with rice in it than without, which if we use popularity as a point of reference, debunks your argument that the definition of beer only has the few ingredients you listed.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer#Ingredients
    Zima is a type of malt beverage. It also tasted nothing like beer as it had powerful sweeteners. Zima was also never called beer by Coors. Rather, it was marketed as an option for people who don't like beer. Note the past tense, as Zima is no longer produced.

    As I mentioned in my first post, the history of beer (including it's original ingredients) is rather boring and redundant to me. The advent of large breweries that take advantage of the economies of scale is far more impactful on my life than what some monks were doing in their basement 500 years ago. If people want to relive how things used to be that's fine with me, but I tire of getting laughed at and lectured at bars by beer snobs. Being told that what you are happily drinking is somehow substandard is annoying and abrasive.