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Iris-Scan ID Cards For Children In Mexico

An anonymous reader writes "Today the first ID cards that include iris and fingerprint biometric information were registered and issued in the Mexican state of Guanajuato. (Original article in Spanish.) The juicier part of the story is that for now, only children will be enrolled in this national biometric database. It is intended that by December 2012 all children in the country will be registered. The alleged purpose of the new ID card is to hinder the abduction of children and prevent child exploitation. The first ID cards are being issued in the same city that last year started implementing a mandatory iris scan for convicted felons and voluntary members of the public in a Minority Reportesque plan to combat delinquency that features iris readers in public transport and ATMs. This comes from the country that last year attempted and failed to create a national database of mobile phone users, again with the purported intention to tackle extortion and kidnappings."

114 comments

  1. Police state by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think Mexico is one of the few countries in the world where I wouldn't mind a police state with full CCTV coverage, considering the drug wars going on...

    1. Re:Police state by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So the police can tell the Narco Gangs where you are to make kidnapping easier?

    2. Re:Police state by flaming+error · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Great point.

      I'd mod you up, but I want to make the counter-point that it might be preferable to legalize drugs than impose a police state on the populace.

    3. Re:Police state by gringofrijolero · · Score: 1

      We're keep trying, but the Americans keep interfering. The watered down laws we have now do more damage than good.

      --
      Todos mis movimientos están friamente calculados
    4. Re:Police state by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I don't have first hand knowledge, but I was told that large parts of the police are bribed or otherwise involved with the drug cartels. One could say a true police state would only make it worse (note however that police state is a tautology anyway, considering that polices stems from the Latin word for "the state" ). IMNHO the only way to fight the drug related violence is legalize the drugs.

    5. Re:Police state by sjames · · Score: 1

      A lot of Americans are trying right along with you.

    6. Re:Police state by i-linux123 · · Score: 0

      "watered down"
      I think that's the main argument. Preventing the spread of drugs, and fighting it, is the just stance.

    7. Re:Police state by Grishnakh · · Score: 0

      Americans aren't interfering with anything. It's your government, and your responsibility. If you want to change your laws, go right ahead; the Americans aren't stopping you. Stop whining about Americans and take responsibility for yourselves.

    8. Re:Police state by gringofrijolero · · Score: 1

      Ah really? Another arrogant know nothing..

      FTFL:
      In May 2006, then-President Vicente Fox, of the same right-wing party as Calderon, vetoed a similar bill that he initially had supported. He backed down only under pressure from the Bush administration, which complained that decriminalization for even small amounts could increase use.

      We had to "sneak" it through this time to keep you people off our backs. So please, accept responsibility for the people you elect to high office. In other words, curb your dog. And put a muzzle on it..

      --
      Todos mis movimientos están friamente calculados
    9. Re:Police state by Grishnakh · · Score: 0

      Again, it's your own government, dumbass. If they're answering to some foreign government instead of you, the voters, it's your responsibility to take action and fix the situation. It's not anyone else's fault or responsibility.

      The American government isn't so great either: it answers to giant corporations instead of the voters too, but at least here we don't have to worry about having our heads chopped off or being raped by the police. Even so, our government's failures are OUR fault, and our responsibility, no one else's. It's we, the voters, who bear the blame and responsibility of making sure our government is doing what we want it to. Same goes for you.

    10. Re:Police state by gringofrijolero · · Score: 1

      ...but at least here we don't have to worry about having our heads chopped off or being raped by the police...

      Deeper in the rabbit hole you go. And that list is very incomplete. Now, feel free to play your numbers game. It will be duly noted. Oh, and let's see what happens if you put up even the tiniest bit of resistance, no matter how justified.

      2011, and the bigotry is as pervasive as ever. Hard to believe it's real

      --
      Todos mis movimientos están friamente calculados
    11. Re:Police state by russotto · · Score: 1

      We had to "sneak" it through this time to keep you people off our backs. So please, accept responsibility for the people you elect to high office. In other words, curb your dog. And put a muzzle on it..

      Mexico is a sovereign nation. If the US president doesn't like the laws Mexico passes, feel free to tell him to mind his own business.

    12. Re:Police state by Grishnakh · · Score: 0

      You compare isolated cases of police brutality (which admittedly do happen), to Mexico where the cops are all working for the cartels, and also involved in other crimes such as raping every woman who travels through the country on the way to the USA?

      2011, and the bigotry is as pervasive as ever. Hard to believe it's real

      Nothing wrong with bigotry when it's based on reality. I read all about what happens every day in your fucked up country on blogdelnarco, right from the horse's mouth.

    13. Re:Police state by gringofrijolero · · Score: 1

      Mexico is a sovereign nation.

      Unfortunately no. There's no such thing. A funny thing happened on 9/11.. Pretty effective deterrent against subversive activity, don't you think?

      --
      Todos mis movimientos están friamente calculados
    14. Re:Police state by gringofrijolero · · Score: 1

      Wake me when you figure out who finances it all, and where the orders come from. Your ignorance is simply overwhelming. That you choose to stay that way is something else.

      --
      Todos mis movimientos están friamente calculados
    15. Re:Police state by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wake me up when you stop trying to blame all of Mexico's problems on the US. Clean your own house before you point fingers elsewhere.

    16. Re:Police state by flaming+error · · Score: 1

      Why do you call him a "dumbass"?

      His comments are reasonable and he backs them up with documented evidence. I don't understand the disrespect.

  2. What's the date again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is intended that by December 2012 all children in the country will be registered.

    Are they picking that date just to fuel the conspiracy theories?

    1. Re:What's the date again? by blair1q · · Score: 3, Funny

      Pretty sure the Mayans weren't referring to a child-identification system when they said "...and then the world will end".

    2. Re:What's the date again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not likely but, it seems you are fueling it though.

  3. Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site. by geekoid · · Score: 2

    "he alleged purpose of the new ID card is to hinder the abduction of children and prevent child exploitation. "

    That IS it's purpose and it will help.
    Whether or not you think it's worth it is a different matter.
    Something everyone must understand is that this technology implementation is coming, everywhere. And it has a good purpose. Don't waste your time stopping it, use that time to get protection from abuse into law.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  4. You're a fake by Wowsers · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ID cards help fraudsters, they provide a valid "government backed" way of proving something that is not necessarily true. How do spies have multiple identities despite these "fraud proof" ID cards? It is a scam to get people on the databases for a dark future the governments plan. Drip drip, your freedom is being taken from under your noses.

    It is more worrying that they are getting at the children, so they get used to these cards and think nothing of them... then when they grow older they will blame their parents for doing nothing about the cards, and enslaving them and future generations.

    --
    Take Nobody's Word For It.
    1. Re:You're a fake by black3d · · Score: 1

      You watch too many movies.

      --
      "The true measure of a person is how they act when they know they won't get caught." - DSRilk
    2. Re:You're a fake by blair1q · · Score: 1

      You're about as free as a wage-slave in a plutocracy can be. But you're so busy worrying about civil rights that don't exist, and trying to stop government calamities that won't ever exist, you don't even notice that you're shovelling the value of your life's work into the Koch Bros' pockets leaving yourself to be homeless when you outlive your retirement savings.

    3. Re:You're a fake by geekoid · · Score: 1

      haha. You need to get your view on spies from better sources then 'Burn Notice'. Although it is a good show.

      enslaving them. Gah, to quote BB: "What an maroon"

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    4. Re:You're a fake by macraig · · Score: 1

      You watch too many movies.

      Ummm... no he doesn't. You don't watch enough. Or read. Or think.

    5. Re:You're a fake by Lloyd_Bryant · · Score: 1

      You watch too many movies.

      You don't read enough history.

      --
      Don't tell me to get a life. I had one once. It sucked.
    6. Re:You're a fake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      haha. You need to get your view on spies from better sources then 'Burn Notice'. Although it is a good show.

      haha. You need to grow a brain. Are you denying that spies use fake identification? That's absurd. Sometimes they are even caught red handed. Here's the first example of that off the top of my head: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Assassination_of_Mahmoud_al-Mabhouh .

      enslaving them. Gah, to quote BB: "What an maroon"

      Read a history book once in a while, you myopic twit. Human history is riddled with examples of one class of people trying to enslave another. If that's ridiculous to you, you are too ignorant to form worthwhile opinions.

      Honestly, replying to people like you is like shouting into the wind ;-) You seem so eager to say anything to support the increasingly unlikely world view that everything will be alright if you just keep your head down, be quiet, and do your job. News flash: according to history, it rarely works out like that.

      Our civil rights are being flushed down the crapper and people like you are part of the problem.

    7. Re:You're a fake by black3d · · Score: 1

      Really? Please elaborate on your findings of "spies" using multiple copies of fraudulent biometic iris scans.

      --
      "The true measure of a person is how they act when they know they won't get caught." - DSRilk
    8. Re:You're a fake by black3d · · Score: 1

      You're right. I must be missing the part of history which shows "spies" using multiple fraudulent biometric iris scans.

      In my knowledge of spy history, such as the Illegals Operation for example, two of the agents used their original identity - Anna Chapman included. The rest used stolen identities of American citizens. The reason these were able to be stolen is because we DON'T use biometric data or iris scans in our identification. You're commenting on an article, saying:

      How do spies have multiple identities despite these "fraud proof" ID cards?

      The fact is, if iris scans were on record for these citizens, then there identity could NOT be stolen so easily. You're arguing against the very measure which makes it more difficult for spies to operate.

      "These cards" are the ones which make that more difficult. You're thinking of passports, yet talking about iris scans.

      Additionally, it is extremely rare for "spies" to have multiple identifications. They have their original identification, and a cover identification arranged by their own government (not very difficult to fake a passport when you're the folks printing them). Not six different nationalities. That's movies, and very rare bad spies who get caught because they trust movies as their source for how to operate.

      --
      "The true measure of a person is how they act when they know they won't get caught." - DSRilk
    9. Re:You're a fake by black3d · · Score: 1

      And apologies, I treated you as OP, although you're not. Hopefully you'll see what I was replying to originally, however.

      --
      "The true measure of a person is how they act when they know they won't get caught." - DSRilk
    10. Re:You're a fake by black3d · · Score: 1

      haha. You need to grow a brain. Are you denying that spies use fake identification? That's absurd. Sometimes they are even caught red handed. Here's the first example of that off the top of my head: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Assassination_of_Mahmoud_al-Mabhouh .

      Lol.. "grow a brain, moran!"

      Do you see the different between people faking passports and faking biometric data?

      No?

      Then please, stop talking before you hurt yourself.

      --
      "The true measure of a person is how they act when they know they won't get caught." - DSRilk
    11. Re:You're a fake by Sarten-X · · Score: 2

      Gee, I wonder how government spies could have fake government records... It's not like the world's current method of checking a foreigner's information is to just ask their government... oh wait...

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    12. Re:You're a fake by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      you don't even notice that you're shovelling the value of your life's work into the Koch Bros' pockets leaving yourself to be homeless when you outlive your retirement savings.

      Don't be ridiculous. No one, including, the Koch Bros, want old people to outlive their retirement savings. They simply want average, middle-class people to never stop working and not retire at all, until they finally fall down dead on the job. The more the people at the bottom work and contribute to the GNP, the more the money the people at the top make. Retirement is fundamentally unAmerican because it deprives the entire nation of profit.

    13. Re:You're a fake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you see the different between people faking passports and faking biometric data?

      Lol @ tiny, naive child. Are you seriously dumb enough to think that faking one's own personal biometric data is the only way to get a fake biometric ID? You must never have heard of social engineering, inside jobs, systemic corruption, or abuse of power. You are the perfect delusional slave. Keep rationalizing your own inaction whilst your freedoms are being piddled away. I hope the iris scan doesn't hurt your eyes, the government hates it when its property is damaged. ;-)

    14. Re:You're a fake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "How do spies have multiple identities despite these "fraud proof" ID cards?"

      (Premise) Fingerprints are supposedly unique. (So) The different ids of these spies will be associated with the same fingerprints. Therefore either the database does not check for / flag duplicate fingerprints or there is an exception list for individuals with duplicated fingerprint records. Excellent.Hacking.Opportunities (allegedly)

    15. Re:You're a fake by blair1q · · Score: 1

      Don't kid yourself. Every old person will be replaced by someone who does more work for less gruel.

  5. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by flaming+error · · Score: 1

    > Don't waste your time stopping it, use that time to
    > get protection from abuse into law.

    You appear to believe that both:
    a) it is possible to get populist legislation enacted
    b) it is not possible for government to break the law.

    Your plan fails on both counts. At least in Mexico and the USA.

  6. I wouldn't worry about it by gringofrijolero · · Score: 1

    Unless they attach this to Hacienda, the only government department that actually works.

    --
    Todos mis movimientos están friamente calculados
    1. Re:I wouldn't worry about it by sjames · · Score: 1

      I know what a hacienda is, but what's Hacienda?

    2. Re:I wouldn't worry about it by gringofrijolero · · Score: 1

      Department of revenue... Like the IRS

      --
      Todos mis movimientos están friamente calculados
    3. Re:I wouldn't worry about it by sjames · · Score: 1

      I see what you mean then. All governments seem to be good at that part.

  7. for the children? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    do the records get destroyed once the child reaches the age of majority?

    1. Re:for the children? by c0lo · · Score: 1

      do the records get destroyed once the child reaches the age of majority?

      Bad news: no. The good news: there are good chances the child will be destroyed before the age of maturity, which will of course make the record meaningless.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    2. Re:for the children? by Grishnakh · · Score: 0

      This is Mexico, so this isn't much of a concern. The child probably won't live much past its 18th birthday.

  8. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by blair1q · · Score: 1

    You appear to believe that not telling the government how to do its job properly is a good idea.

    If you make bad things illegal, even if the federales do them, and you enforce that, even if the federales are the defendant, then you end up with rule of law.

    Make it explicit that there are illegal uses of the identification system, then the identification system will be safer than not having one.

    We do a similar thing here all the time with Free Speech. You have a right to it, and you can use it rather blithely, even though it's possible for the government to abuse you for it. But if it tries, you'll scream for an ACLU lawyer and kick their ass.

    No reason that Free Speech can't be substituted with ID Abuse in that paragraph.

  9. How would it help the children?doesn't make sense. by master_p · · Score: 1

    Id or not, the children will be abducted and exploited. This id will not help children at all.

    Ids are useful when people enter a place, not when the leave it.

  10. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by geekoid · · Score: 1

    Thank you.

    Sometimes I feel like I'm screaming into the wind.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  11. Re:How would it help the children?doesn't make sen by geekoid · · Score: 1

    A large portion of children are kidnapped by family members who will not otherwise harm the child.
    Now when they register for school, people will be notified, or get medicine and so on.

    Ids are useful when they are checked. The direction you are going is irrelevant.

    No, it won't help all children, but it will help most children.

    Contrary to what many vocal people on /. think, laws like these do have a preventative effect. How much? that depends on the situation.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  12. the drug lords that have infiltrated government by decora · · Score: 1

    will now have everyones iris scan. wonderful!

    if you dont believe me just google up the NPR stories about the drug war in mexico.

    journalists have stopped reporting. politicians have stopped talking. the drug gangs control everything, including, now, your children's biometric data.

    1. Re:the drug lords that have infiltrated government by Grishnakh · · Score: 0

      Mexico is a failed state. The government no longer has any control over most of the country, except probably Mexico City itself. Mexico is best compared to Somalia, a very similar country with no more effective government and no rule of law. Worse, Somalia is probably a safer place to travel.

  13. decapitated heads have no fingerprints by decora · · Score: 1

    so when their heads turn up in a ditch, and their body turns up in a dumpster, you will be able to match the parts together.

    this post is not a joke. just google what is going on down there.

    1. Re:decapitated heads have no fingerprints by Grishnakh · · Score: 0

      Don't be ridiculous. Heads don't wind up in ditches in Mexico, they're put on public display in town squares. Sometimes, they even strip the skin off the skull, and display the two separately, just for kicks. As for the body, it doesn't go in a dumpster whole, all the limbs are cut off, because apparently Mexicans enjoy that kind of thing.

      Read all about it here: http://www.blogdelnarco.com/

  14. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by c0lo · · Score: 1

    "he alleged purpose of the new ID card is to hinder the abduction of children and prevent child exploitation. "

    That IS it's purpose and it will help. Whether or not you think it's worth it is a different matter.

    Another matter: will help who exactly?

    --
    Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
  15. Who enforces the enforcers? by flaming+error · · Score: 1

    "and you enforce that"

    Well, that's the real trick, isn't it? Who enforces the enforcers?

    In the USA, the Legislature is supposed to supervise the Executive.

    The last time enforcement happened, Nixon was President.

    The next time it was attempted was when Republicans controlled both houses of Congress and a Democrat president committed the "high crime" of lying about an extramarital affair. Basically the "separation of powers" the framers crafted has degenerated into Democrats vs Republicans.

    Enforcing laws this way is what we call "selective enforcement," and it is antithetical to the Rule of Law.

    In Mexico, the system is more like narcos against narcos, with a few brave martyrs-to-be tilting against the windmills of evil.

    1. Re:Who enforces the enforcers? by blair1q · · Score: 1

      If only Bubba could have been president Anonymously...

      As for revolutions, bring more martyrs. It generally takes thousands acting in concert. If the black-hats aren't afraid to die for their drugs, the people need to step up with the risk-taking to get them put down.

    2. Re:Who enforces the enforcers? by flaming+error · · Score: 1

      > bring more martyrs

      So you want the peaceful law-abiding Mexicans to step more firmly in the line of fire to kill the "black-hat" Mexicans we buy from?

      This is a problem the US created. We made drug possession a crime, we buy the drugs, and we extort drug enforcement from the Mexican government.

      How will escalating the Mexican bloodshed into a full-on civil war improve things?

  16. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by gringofrijolero · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't know where you think you would find your little law and order utopia, but it sure isn't here. Kidnapping (and the drug war) is a problem due to official corruption, not for lack of tagging our kids like cattle..

    Outsider meddling in our domestic politics doesn't help matters any either

    --
    Todos mis movimientos están friamente calculados
  17. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by sjames · · Score: 1

    So of course the recorded iris scan will be deleted upon reaching the age of majority. Won't it?

  18. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by interkin3tic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "he alleged purpose of the new ID card is to hinder the abduction of children and prevent child exploitation. "

    That IS it's purpose and it will help.

    No, it's purpose is security theater: to make the citizens think their government is taking serious steps to combat the security problem.

    How are ID cards supposed to stop children abduction or exploitation? "Crap! We can't kidnap and exploit this kid: his irises are catalogued! The police will know he's not ours! Now that kid standing NEXT to him is clearly an orphan and will be untagged. Tie him up and put him in the sweatshop, then any police who notice will think he's OUR kid, along with the other 20."

    Or is it more "Stay back evildoers! I have AN ID CARD!!!"
    Evildoers: "Oh no! He'll give us papercuts!"

    Or is it that most of the people using/kidnapping kids are confused and think they're unclaimed children that are finders keepers?

    It's a thoroughly nonsensical idea that will do nothing to stop any real problem, hence the sarcasm in the post.

  19. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "he alleged purpose of the new ID card is to hinder the abduction of children and prevent child exploitation. "

    That IS it's purpose and it will help.

    "Let's grab that kid and sell her as a sex slave."
    "We can't! She's got an ID card."

    ...yeah.

    This is the same thinking behind fingerprint kits, which are claimed to help keep your kid from being abducted.
    Sorry; the truth of the matter is, they're only useful in identifying kids after they have been abducted, and honestly in some cases dental records would be better for that.

  20. Re:How would it help the children?doesn't make sen by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

    A large portion of children are kidnapped by family members who will not otherwise harm the child. Now when they register for school, people will be notified, or get medicine and so on.

    What "large portion of children" are we talking about? I'm going to say if it's under 10% of children abducted, invading the other 90%'s privacy is too high a price. And whatever the numbers, mandatory rather than opt-in is unjustified.

  21. Malaysia + Mercedes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now we will see lots of children with a missing eye and fingers...

  22. Re:How would it help the children?doesn't make sen by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

    Seems easier to just investigate the family members when the kid goes missing. And if someone wants the kid, needing to show ID for school or a hospital just means that they won't take it there.

  23. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by blair1q · · Score: 0

    Whining about tagging your kids like cattle is a waste of resources when you should be fighting the corruption.

    We'll remember that "outsider meddling" crack when you come begging for our troops to end the corruption for you.

  24. Children become adults by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Eventually through attrition the entire population will be in the database. Wonder how long until the US government tries the same excuse?

    Funny how in Mexico it's children and felons. Scary putting them in the same group with the same rights to privacy.

  25. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by gringofrijolero · · Score: 2

    Thank you for showing you don't have clue. Blinded by arrogance to this day you are... And you wonder why the world doesn't bow down to you..

    --
    Todos mis movimientos están friamente calculados
  26. This Perfect Day by Speare · · Score: 2

    Every time I read a universal biometric plan, I think of the old sci-fi book, This Perfect Day by Ira Levin. It was written in that timeless-far-future style that Asimov or Clarke would write, and it describes a day when all people had a nameber (a name/number combined) like "Bob RM04TG5002," all but a few old-timers were genetically indistinguishable by sight, and all governance was centralized into an all-knowing UniComp. Everyone had to ask UniComp for everything by touching their permanent bracelet to a scanner at every opportunity. Of course the main character was quirky and rebelled.

    As a kid reading it, it really taught me the concept of willful non-conformism and individuality. Other stories like Caves of Steel touched on parts of it, but this was the central idea here. Worth a quick read if you want to grab it. Don't thank me, thank Uni.

    --
    [ .sig file not found ]
  27. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Whining" does not mean "caring about something more than I do". And yes, that IS what you meant.

  28. Scene: Adopt-a-Child, Mexico City by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Would-be Parent: Yes, we'd like to adopt a child. A fine son. Blond-haired and blue-eyed would be best

    Govt. Dept lackey: (tap tap tappity tap) Here's one, I'll just pass the detail onto our collection agency.

    Would-be Parent: Collection agency? But we've no intention of defaulting on the payment of our fees.

    Govt. Dept lackey: Oh Sorry - I meant "Orphanage". Your son will be available ... oh ... Thursday.

  29. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pretty sure it's just a national ID scheme that's been passed under a false flag op. A card won't stop someone being kidnapped and smuggled abroad, and in fifteen years those children won't be children anymore. Fingerprints and biometrics already on the database, cards already issued, .gov passes a new regulation requiring the card to find employment. Game over.

  30. Another database for sale by happyfeet2000 · · Score: 1

    A few years ago, the whole elector's database was illegaly sold to private companies, including an American one, and as a result most people keep receiving unwanted calls from their banks up to 7 or 8 times a day trying to sell you insurance over the phone or asking for overdue payments, same from other companies, sometimes for years even if it was a clerical error. Last year the government tried to force everybody to register their cell phones since most people opt for prepaid cards to avoid fraudulent charges from Carlos Slim's (richest man in the world) Telcel company. About half the users naively did. Now they're receiving extorsion calls from people claiming they've kidnapped a relative of yours. Most calls have been traced to prisions where influential prisioners have their little kingdoms. Of course that has been a fact of life with land lines too, but up to now there was no way to know which cell phone number youi have. Now they have all your personal info since the registration is tied to the equivalent of your SS number (CURP), who also links you to info on your bank balances. And now, oh my my, the same government whose corrupt politicians, police chiefs, and even state governors have been found to protect kidnappers wants you to register all the info of your children in one convenient big database...and the company in charge is owned by a president's in-law (Hildebrando)...wow...can't wait to comply...!

  31. Retina or nada by markdavis · · Score: 1

    And today's 100% of the children become 100% of the adults in several years. It is more like a grandfather clause. There is no way any government will ever delete data once it is collected. Not gonna happen.

    In any case, it is interesting that they would collect an iris scan. I *hate* the idea of a government collecting any "latent"-able biometrics from anyone not *convicted* of a serious crime (see below). If one method HAD to be chosen, however, a retinal scan would be the best (iris might be second best). Best from an ID standpoint, and best from a civil liberties standpoint.

    Why? Because you can't be framed using retinal data (unless you regularly leave your eyes lying around). It can't be stolen nor "planted". You can't be covertly scanned without your knowledge. It's data can't be easily forced from you. It is incredibly hard to fake. It is incredibly hard to alter. Trying to eradicate it from your body would have a serious negative impact. You don't go around unintentionally leaving your retina signature all over the place like fingerprints or DNA. And DNA can reveal more about you than just identity.

    1. Re:Retina or nada by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      It can be planted in the computer records. Why would you think that is actually reliable?

      It's also uncomfortable and easily confused (though not faked) by laser surgy for vision correction or diabetic retinopathy,by cataracts, or even by contacts.

    2. Re:Retina or nada by markdavis · · Score: 1

      Well, *any* data can be planted into computer records. That doesn't address the actual ID technology, itself. (Of course, it is a valid concern across the board).

      As for comfort- a DNA ID verification could probably be a lot more invasive and uncomfortable (cheek swap, blood draw) at least by today's standards. A fast retinal scan design would be to simple look into eyepiece for a second. Done. I think a modern system could be almost as fast as a fingerprint scan.

      I don't think laser surgery for vision correction or contacts would make any difference, because that doesn't alter the retinal pattern. You do have a point for retinal surgery, though... but I am not sure it would alter enough of the retina to matter for most purposes.

    3. Re:Retina or nada by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are your thoughts on vascular biometrics like finger or palm vein? These are also non-traceable. The sensors read the unique vein pattern underneath your skin.

    4. Re:Retina or nada by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 2

      DNA ID's are expensive. They use consumable chemicals, and drawing body fluids into a publicly accessible device presents fascinating liability and exposure issues, and they neglect the existence of "chimeras", organisms (including humans) who have multiple sets of DNA. (They're fascinating medically, usually from shared blood supples with non-identical twins before birth.)

      Laser surgery to correct vision distorts the lens: that can cause profound distortion of the expected retinal image, beyond the ability of the computer to recognize the correct image. Given the number of false negativies retinal scans provide, it significantly lowers their usefulness.

      Diabetic laser surger is also fascinating in its results. Do look it up. I'm afraid I'm old enough that I have acquaintances who've had such surger, and feel sure that retinal scans taken before, during, and after the retinopathy, and I've even had the opportunity to look through an opthalmoscope and actually see the changes. If they're enough for a casual observer to note, I'm sure theyre' enough to distort the results of a retinal scan.

    5. Re:Retina or nada by markdavis · · Score: 1

      Yes, vein patterns would be a good choice, also. Something that is inside the body- not easily extracted without knowledge/permission, something difficult to replicate or alter, something not "left" all over the place. However, obtaining one would have to be from a part of the body other than the palm, because they could use that opportunity to also obtain a full set of fingerprints (or even palm surface print) without much effort and without the target knowing it. Unless it could be designed such that is it impossible and apparent that it does not include the fingers, the back of the hand would be safer.

    6. Re:Retina or nada by kipjunes · · Score: 1

      Yes, I totally understand your reasoning. Full disclosure - I actually co-own a biometrics technology firm. We support two types of vascular biometric readers: The palm vein reader from Fujitsu and the finger vein reader from Hitachi. Neither of these devices also capture fingerprints. Check them out if you are interested and I'm happy to answer any questions about biometrics.

    7. Re:Retina or nada by markdavis · · Score: 1

      My issue/problem would be with any device in which the user places the front of their hand on a scanner, unless their fingers are hanging off the edge or something.

      Even if the device can't scan finger/palm prints, that doesn't mean anything to Joe-blow on the street not familiar with the technology. A layperson would understand, intuitively, that it would probably not be possible for prints to be lifted from something not covered or touched or in proximity to a sensor.

      It would be like news photographer pointing a camera at you and then telling you- "Don't worry, I am taking a picture of your ear only, I am not taking a picture of your face". Even if he shows you what is on the screen of his camera, and it looks like only an ear, that doesn't mean that the camera didn't take a full face photo...

  32. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by Grishnakh · · Score: 0, Troll

    I don't give a rat's ass about the world bowing down to us. If I had my way, we'd build a big wall on our southern border and shoot anyone who climbs over or tunnels under it, stop all foreign aid to your failed state (and most other countries as well), legalize pot and decriminalize all other drugs, stop all trade with you, and let you morons kill yourselves. Your culture worships violence, crime, and Santa Muerte (the Saint of Death), your people are more violent than just about any on earth, and you should be isolated and left to your own devices. I want nothing to do with your disgusting "culture".

    Whining about "outsider meddling" is funny. If you don't like your politicians listening to outsiders, then vote for ones who don't. If voting isn't working, then try a revolution; the brave people of Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya put up with a lot less than the barbarism your people experience every day, and rose up and put an end to it (or are in the process of it in the case of Libya). The brave people of Bahrain and Yemen are doing the same, and other countries in the region will probably go the same way soon, with those people sick of their governments. Your people instead will happily stand by and let the cartels take over, aided by their corrupt allies in government.

  33. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 2

    No, it's an excuse for tracking _everyone_. "Think of the children" has been a rallying cry for numerous attacks on civil liberties, free speech, anonymity, and a general desire to have full access to everyone's personal matters.

    Most child abductions are by relatives: divorced parents pulling children across state lines because they disagree with divorce court proceedings, often with good reason, is one of the most common sources of child abduction. Tnad this will do very little about that unless the _states_ agree to exchange data and support extradition proceedings, and there are excellent cases of why this is exactly the wrong thing to do for the child.

    Such "child tracking" and the necessary national tracking database for it to be effective is also a direct violation of states' rights, which have set standards for custody and child care on a state by state basis.

  34. Borg by scurvyj · · Score: 0

    To the tune of "Spam! Lovely Spam!"...

    Borg, borg, borg, borg, borg, borg, borg, borg, assimilation, borg, borg, borg, borg, borg.....

  35. Wrong department by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They missed the chance to say "ojo-con-el-gobierno department".

  36. Re:How would it help the children?doesn't make sen by westlake · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A large portion of children are kidnapped by family members who will not otherwise harm the child.

    You can't be certain of that.

    But it is particularly dangerous to compare the U.S. - where extortion abductions are almost unknown - to a country where kidnapping for profit has become big business.

    Colombia was once Latin America's kidnapping capital, where Marxist guerrillas took hostages and held them for months, even years, in recondite jungle camps, using them as political bargaining chips or human shields. But in recent years, as drug cartels in Mexico have branched out into other forms of crime, kidnapping there has become a lucrative cash industry.

    As kidnappings for ransom surge in Mexico, victims' families and employers turn to private U.S. firms instead of law enforcement

  37. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by gringofrijolero · · Score: 2

    Your culture worships violence, crime.. your people are more violent than just about any on earth, and you should be isolated and left to your own devices.

    Coming from an American... That's... interesting...

    --
    Todos mis movimientos están friamente calculados
  38. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by russotto · · Score: 1

    Something everyone must understand is that this technology implementation is coming, everywhere. And it has a good purpose. Don't waste your time stopping it, use that time to get protection from abuse into law.

    Once the ID system is in place, any protections can be eliminated from law with the stroke of a pen. Or simply ignored by the government, a la Bush and US wiretapping.

  39. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by Grishnakh · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How so? It's your broken culture that produces the violence seen here. Sure, we have some problems with violence, but nothing remotely like what's seen there. Moreover, when we glamorize violence in our Hollywood movies, it's about "good guys" shooting up "bad guys". People cheer when the criminals get killed.

    In Mexico, it's the criminals who are considered heroes: http://www.khou.com/news/Narco-culture-glamorizes-violent-lifestyle-in-Mexico-and-in-Texas-116571258.html
    Mexican musicians write songs ("narco corridos") about how wonderful drug traffickers are. Narco cinema glamorizes drug smuggling. Hit men record gruesome killings and upload them to YouTube. Basically, your culture thinks crime is a good thing. No nation can ever be successful when its citizens think crime and violence against innocents is something to be respected and cherished.

    There is something fundamentally broken about your culture and your people, and if I had my way, you would have no contact with anyone else in the world.

  40. Failure rates ? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
    Both positive failures
    (Mr Diego, we thing you are Sr Domingo, and here is your execution)

    and negative failures
    (Snr Diego-the-ceramic-salesman, you and your truck of ($excuses$) are welcome, and since you have a US-DEA iris, we'll give you these informers names too. May I swallow?

    will happen.

    Has your society attempted to understand why one person thinks that they are better than (and more valuable than) AnyRandomclient, who is surveilled.

    Oh, obviously time is important. People aren't important, but that is obvious. Who is best?

    [self: GLUG]

    Who is valuable ? ... Big question.

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  41. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by gringofrijolero · · Score: 2

    It's your broken culture that produces the violence seen here. Sure, we have some problems with violence, but nothing remotely like what's seen there.

    *cough* Yeah, we know. You've off shored that too.

    I don't believe I've ever seen anybody so swallowed up in the media trap. You are so high on the blue pill you literally don't see beyond your own skin. One thing you do show, your politicians are made in your image... Thank you for a most educational perspective. Pero huele muy feo el pedorro

    --
    Todos mis movimientos están friamente calculados
  42. Re:How would it help the children?doesn't make sen by Grishnakh · · Score: 0

    You're thinking of abductions in the USA. In Mexico, they're more likely to rape the children, as raping young girls is a national pastime there. Then they'll kill them. Biometric ID might be useful in matching the severed body parts together however.

  43. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "You know - for kids"

  44. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by houghi · · Score: 2

    Counted sheep are eaten by wolfs too.

    Say I am a kidnapper. Do you think that I would care whether your kid has ID, a cellphone and a personal tracer? I will still take your kid. If it is for money, those items will be easier for me to determine the price. If it is for personal lust, then those items could be seen as trophies or as lust.

    In Belgium many kids have ID cards and phones. Kids still disappear. The majority because they run away from home. Then there are those that are kidnapped by the other parent.

    The absolute minority gets kidnapped, raped and murdered (single digits in numbers, not even percentages) by strangers.

    Most abuse towards children AND adults is by people they know. There also those cards won't help anything.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  45. So it gets deleted when they become adults, right? by KyoMamoru · · Score: 1

    ....Right? =|

  46. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Something everyone must understand is that this technology implementation is coming, everywhere. And it has a good purpose. Don't waste your time stopping it, use that time to get protection from abuse into law.

    Once the ID system is in place, any protections can be eliminated from law with the stroke of a pen. Or simply ignored by the government, a la Bush and US wiretapping.

    Which is why as soon as they implement such a system in the US, I'm moving to Mexico. Why? Because for about $100 cash I can bribe an official who works with the ID system to dis-associate my biometrics with my real identity, and attach them to a fake one. Then they'll take the biometrics from a dead person, and attach those to my former identity. Voila! Now I'm a completely new person, and I have a 100% legitimate ID to prove that I was born and raised a Mexican citizen. And anybody who comes looking for Snidely Whiplash will find out he's dead... and they'll even be able to visit my grave, exhume "my" corpse, and positively verify that it was indeed Snidely who was put in that hole. If I'm really paranoid, I'll spend another $100 to have the guy who did it "disappeared".

    The other bonus? I'll be able to smoke weed without having to worry about spending more time in jail than a child rapist.

  47. Yeah, I know why they say they want it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... but in the future it will be used for absolutely everything.

    Our systems will be monitoring you, your travel, your transactions and your communication. You will comply or face the consequences... and there will be nothing you will be able to do about it.

  48. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > your people are more violent than just about any on earth

    Oh common, wetback's are bad but their better than niggers any day.

  49. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    A bit of a special case. The Belgian police are so lazy, corrupt and incompetent they'd make an Indian blush. Remember when the back door to a police station was left open and a convicted paedophile walked out? Remember when they heard the imprisoned kids behing a false wall and did nothing? The one who crashed his car while drunk and tried to get subordinates to cover it up?

    Until you fix that (i.e. fire the vast majority of them, and jail a fair few) nothing else is going to work.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  50. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by currently_awake · · Score: 1

    Child abduction does appear to be a problem in mexico. A larger question is what happens to the biometric data when they become adults. I suspect it WON'T be deleted, and I suspect those people won't have that option offered to them. Meaning that the entire country will (in one generation) be biometric scanned. Think of the children is such an easy way to conn people into giving up their freedom.

  51. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And yet, no one on this site seems to ever think of the following:

    Or is it more "Stay back evildoers! I have the constitution!"

    Evildoers: "Oh no! He'll give us papercuts!"

  52. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by gringofrijolero · · Score: 1

    Because for about $100 cash I can bribe an official...

    That was maybe 30 years ago. You need between 5 and 10 thousand now.. if you want a professional.. But hell, you can buy an American with that kind of money, and get better service..

    Government is corrupt no matter where you are. Politicians are bought and sold like trinkets at the bizarre. The Mexicans just happened to be on the wrong end of the big stick. I hear they want to start locking you up for downloading movies and music.. Justice at its best, it seems

    --
    Todos mis movimientos están friamente calculados
  53. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Haha, sure it is. Will they be erasing data once the children reach 18 years of age? No? Why not?

  54. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

    It's the lawsuits, and subsequent draining of money, or overturning of laws that is the teeth behind the constitution. And it only works so long as the evildoers respect the rule of law, which people who kidnap kids don't.

  55. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by Superdarion · · Score: 1

    It is very easy to falsify documents over here in Mexico. Actually, it's as easy as going to the registry office and using an ATM-like machine that gives out birth certificates to anyone who asks and from there you can get a whole new set of documents for yourself with someone else's name on them. Also, the one and only documentation that government agencies accept for a child is their birth certificate. For lesser stuff, the school id could be sufficient, but for official matters, you need the birth certificate or the passport (which again, you obtain with the birth certificate).

    So how is this related to the abduction of kids? Well, easy: If you kidnap a kid and take him to another state, chances are no one will recognize him. Get him false papers and you can claim he's your kid and from then on, no one will bother you. Now, with these new measures, it'll be harder to falsify the documents and it will be easier for the government to recognize this child when the abducter is trying to go through any official place that requires and ID, for now the birth certificate won't be enough.

    I'm not saying it will work and I'm not saying it's not security theater. It might be. I'm just saying that there's a good logic behind it.

  56. On the non-homogeneity of Mexico by gwolf · · Score: 1

    (Mexican speaking here)

    The image of Mexico in the USA is that of a wild land, full of violence, full of smuggling and –as you say– taking narcos as role models. It is far from that. Even if we have seen a huge setback in legality and we have got far more nervous in the last couple of years (since the current president started his mandate, as legitimate as GWBush's first)... Most of the country is far from what you say. You are refering to a panorama similar to the one presented in Luis Estrada's El Infierno (Hell) movie. Please keep in mind that movie is a fantasy, a literary/cinematographic exercise on what the author feels could happen. It is cruel and raw, and we do see lots of such things, but the country is far bigger than that situation. The gruesome part is (and you can find an obvious correlation..) mostly along the border we share with the US... On a widening strip of land, already several hundreds of kilometers wide.

    Still, no, our culture does not condone or glorify such activities. Of course, people living in the very much impoverished and arid Northern region, when facing the opportunity of getting some money by joining a drug gang, have experienced a shift of values. And I do know many people who enjoy the narcocorridos, the music you refer to, but as a recreational (even funny) way. I know (and I hope I don't ever) anybody who takes a capo narco as a role model.

    So, replying to your last sentence: There is something fundamentally broken with the inequity in our society. By far, most of Mexico's 110,000,000 people are not what you describe. Even more, most of us feel it is unbelievable a country which claims to be advanced and peaceful (and I'm looking over the border now) has no gun control whatsoever, and such a huge number of drug addicts. Were it not for the ease of buying guns in the USA, our gangs would not be so stupidly heavily armed. And were it not for the amount of drugs demanded in the USA, there would not be all that great business opportunity. And, of course, we sense a huge disparity: How come we have all those cartels smuggling drugs to the USA, but in the USA there is never more than a small-scale distributor captured? Logically, there are strong orgnized drug rings in your country. But the war has been pushed to ours.

    1. Re:On the non-homogeneity of Mexico by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      You make some interesting points, however I think the problem is far greater than you realize. I think there's probably a big difference between what people in your southern cities (particularly Mexico City) see, and what the entire northern half of the country sees. It's not just along the border. I have a housekeeper from Sinaloa, and the entire state there is mostly taken over by the cartel. The Sinaloan cartel is pretty well-known, and as you can see on a map, it's 3-400 miles south of the border. People in the towns there can't go out after dark.

      As for gun control, have you ever thought that maybe that's part of your problem? We don't have a whole lot of problems with organized crime violence, except in inner cities (which do have gun control), yet people can easily obtain weapons here. Maybe if your own people had access to weapons, they wouldn't be such easy victims for the cartels, who are now branching out into many other businesses such as sex trafficking and kidnap-and-ransom.

      Furthermore, your cartel's weapons aren't coming from the USA, for the most part. That's lies from the mainstream media and liberal US politicians. Notice the weapons that the cartel has: fully-automatic rifles, grenades, etc. Here's a newsflash: those weapons are all illegal here in the USA! You can't go anywhere and buy a grenade in the US, and fully-automatic guns are extremely restricted and controlled. Even silencers are very hard to get, and require special permits and background checks. It's only the semi-automatic guns you can get relatively easily, but those aren't as useful for shootouts or fighting the military. Here in the USA, the only full-auto guns civilians can get their hands on are generally antiques or fairly old (70s-80s or earlier, before the passage of a new law back then), so the prices are insanely high as the supply is very small, so generally only rich collectors own such guns. I've shot a few of these myself, but while 70-year-old WWII-era machine guns are pretty fun to shoot (before they jam up), reliable they are not, and they're not what the cartel has in its inventory.

      Here's where your cartels are getting their higher-powered arms: 1) your own military, because it's corrupt, and 2) arms trade with asian or eastern european countries. AK-47s aren't made here in the US, they're made in China, Russia, and Romania.

  57. The reason why this was started just on children by gwolf · · Score: 1

    It is not related to children being more abduction-prone (or not so much, anyway)... It is because of a legal controversy.

    In Mexico, we do have one federally issued ID document: The voting card. It is a document I have often criticized, as it lacks many important controls - but it has proven enough for its main designed use: Identifying yourself at the voting table. It does not have too much personal information, as it is not needed, and it is not terrible that it is relatively easy to forge, as it has to be compared with the printed copy the voting booths have with them. Yes, as an ID document it sucks – It has some information many of us would rather not carry so prominently (my full address), as it is required for verifying you are in the right place to vote, and lacks many locks to make it a good ID document.

    Last year, Secretaría de Gobernación (lets say... the Inner Issues Ministry?) proposed this new universal ID card. However, as there is already an authority legally required to emit the ID document for every citizen, it was ruled the two documents would compete and neither would reach full coverage.

    There have also been many cases of information leak: The full voters database has been found for sale in the black market. Many people (me included) don't want to submit our biometric information to a database prone to be stolen – At the same time, I recognize we will have to. And that information (for me) is already in the hands of the USA embassy (as I have a USA visa), parts of it is with the banks, and... Well, I cannot assume anymore I am the only one with access to my fingerprints (although iris scans are far less common). I do not strongly oppose this anymore, although I still don't really trust Gobernación with its custody.

    But yes, I fully agree... Issuing a strong ID document to minors is just the first step towards making it mandatory and universal. What has to be done, however, is to do it in an ordered way... As the fears of dillution (many adults not bothering about getting the voter card as they already have the ID card or viceversa, or people not notifying of their address changes to both agencies) are not something to be ignored.

  58. Oh, yes, we love it! by gwolf · · Score: 1

    Come on... Mexicans enjoy that? Please have some sensibility while posting.

    A tiny percentage of our population is sickly violent — And we have not yet invaded a foreign country where we can ship them so they just kill people with different ethnic origins. So we have to cope with sickly violent people. The country is not completely invaded and rotten (i.e. Mexico City, where I live, is just a regular big city, where I can walk with more or less the same confidence I would mostly in any big city in the world. Really.). We do not find bodybags everyday when shopping groceries. We do not have shootings on the street instead of nice TV movies.

    Mexico has several bad things, some of them severely bad... But it is very far from what you imagine. The images you mention are sadly becoming frequent. But they are targetted between hyperviolent groups. The population, the people really expecting to see this country day after day for many years (I doubt the regular thug expects to live beyond a year or two), does get as terrified with this as you get when you see the racial crimes or insane shootings that have made the USA so famous.

  59. Completely ashamed of this country. by Lord+Juan · · Score: 1

    As a Mexican all that I can say is that I will not have children in this country, I will find a way to migrate and have them somewhere else. I don't usually care about the whole security theater that this country does, but I will not have my children biometric information stored on some government database, no, it is just not ever going to happen.

    I never thought I could be more ashamed of this country. Don't let this happen in your countries people.

  60. On gun control by gwolf · · Score: 1

    As for gun control, have you ever thought that maybe that's part of your problem? We don't have a whole lot of problems with organized crime violence, except in inner cities (which do have gun control), yet people can easily obtain weapons here. Maybe if your own people had access to weapons, they wouldn't be such easy victims for the cartels, who are now branching out into many other businesses such as sex trafficking and kidnap-and-ransom.

    No, no, you are mistaken here (at least related to what we see in this country. Yes, there are some robberies at gunpoint (I haven't thankfully ever seen one) – But when people are "picked up" in the streets for kidnapping and similar issues, it's most usually done via numeric superiority, surprise, and just body force. Many people will rather risk being killed by a bullet than being held for ransom, for the huge cost it means (monetary and psychological) to them and to their families.
    Our main problem with guns here is the violence between the drug cartels. And yes, I agree with you - I meant the "thick" regions around the border. And that thickness has reached Sinaloa (I'd say it's about 500Km from the border) - Sinaloa has historically been a very problematic state, one where the drug lords have always been very powerful, due to more reasons I can write in a reasonably short reply (and more than I am familiar with).
    As for your last point, regarding old and not-powerful weapons: During the last couple of days (1 or 2 weeks), the radio news show I listen to in the morning has been giving quite a bit of attention to the Fast and Furious operation – an investigation carried out by US authorities, without Mexican knowledge, allowing a group of drug dealers to smuggle into Mexico over 1900 high power weapons, attempting to track their distribution. Again, I cannot get into further details here, but it's been quite a scandal this side of the border. But don't worry, we will forget about it very soon and continue doing... Business as usual.

    1. Re:On gun control by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      During the last couple of days (1 or 2 weeks), the radio news show I listen to in the morning has been giving quite a bit of attention to the Fast and Furious operation – an investigation carried out by US authorities, without Mexican knowledge, allowing a group of drug dealers to smuggle into Mexico over 1900 high power weapons, attempting to track their distribution. Again, I cannot get into further details here, but it's been quite a scandal this side of the border. But don't worry, we will forget about it very soon and continue doing... Business as usual.

      Again, none of those weapons are fully-automatic, the kind you'd want to engage in a gun battle with soldiers with. I don't know specifically what kind of weapons were involved there, but "assault rifles" are not "high power", they're actually pretty low-power and short-range. Their lethality is in their good accuracy at short-to-medium ranges coupled with fully-automatic fire. The civilian versions take away the full-auto bit, so they're nothing more than semi-auto rifles that look scary, and are both less powerful and have less range and accuracy than any decent hunting rifle.

      The rifles that are pretty scary, however, are the 50-caliber sniper rifles, which can indeed be purchased here by civilians (at rather high price tags, I would add, a LOT more than a typical AR-15 rifle). But those are basically useless in gun battles because they're so big and heavy; their use is in long-range sniping, both anti-personnel and anti-materiel. No one's going to use one in a shootout in city streets.

      However, you're right, the ATF's activities with that Fast and Furious operation are pretty fucked-up, and I have to wonder what Obama's real agenda is there. At this point I have no faith in the American Federal government, and I think it's almost as corrupt as Mexico's.

  61. Re:Alledged? sigh. /. slowly becoming a crank site by currently_awake · · Score: 1

    Your suggested course of action sounds good, I'm eagerly awaiting the government of CANADA to follow it.