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DirectX 'Getting In the Way' of PC Game Graphics, Says AMD

Bit-tech recently spoke with Richard Huddy, worldwide developer relations manager of AMD's GPU division, about the lack of a great disparity between PC game graphics and console game graphics, despite the hardware gap. Quoting: "'We often have at least ten times as much horsepower as an Xbox 360 or a PS3 in a high-end graphics card, yet it's very clear that the games don't look ten times as good. To a significant extent, that's because, one way or another, for good reasons and bad - mostly good, DirectX is getting in the way.' Huddy says that one of the most common requests he gets from game developers is: 'Make the API go away.' 'I certainly hear this in my conversations with games developers,' he says, 'and I guess it was actually the primary appeal of Larrabee to developers – not the hardware, which was hot and slow and unimpressive, but the software – being able to have total control over the machine, which is what the very best games developers want. By giving you access to the hardware at the very low level, you give games developers a chance to innovate, and that's going to put pressure on Microsoft – no doubt at all.'"

13 of 323 comments (clear)

  1. Yeah right by ggramm · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I worked for Microprose in the 90's. Back then we had direct access to hardware, but the technology was limited. GFX power increased and new tricks came. Now a days it wouldn't be possible to do all that.

    DirectX is the sole reason we have good games and graphics on PC. No one wants to reinvent the whole wheel and Microsoft works a lot with GPU manufacturers to come out with new technology.

    DirectX is not the reason, it's the lazy developers who just port the game from consoles to PC. They don't spend the time to make a PC version that uses DirectX and newest graphics cards to their fullest capability, so why on earth they would do that if you remove DirectX.

    There is no DirectX on Linux and just look at how laughtable the situation is. Yeah theres nethack and some clone of Civilization 2 with worse graphics, but it's far from both console games and PC games that gamers play. It's a joke.
    Microsoft has supported PC gaming to great lengths. We all should thank Microsoft that the situation is even so good. Who we should bitch at are the lazy developers and AMD, who also has been lagging behind. NVIDIA and Microsoft is basically doing all the innovation, and their hardware is miles ahead of AMD's. Microsoft, Intel and NVIDIA. All great companies with great products that are truly working for PC games.

    1. Re:Yeah right by SCPRedMage · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There is no DirectX on Linux and just look at how laughtable the situation is. Yeah theres nethack and some clone of Civilization 2 with worse graphics, but it's far from both console games and PC games that gamers play. It's a joke.

      Don't blame the lack of DirectX for the lack of games on Linux. OpenGL works just fine on it, as it does on Windows.

      And Mac, much to the delight of the four people who want to play games under OS X.

      As far as getting rid of graphics APIs, yeah, that's exactly what we need: to go back in time fifteen years, and make devs write their games for every piece of graphics hardware under the sun. There's a damn good reason the industry started using them, and its still as relevant today as it was back then.

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    2. Re:Yeah right by perpenso · · Score: 4, Informative

      And Mac, much to the delight of the four people who want to play games under OS X.

      Last I heard you are about 5 orders of magnitude off with respect to Mac users playing World of Warcraft. :-)

    3. Re:Yeah right by digitig · · Score: 5, Funny

      0.00004 people?

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    4. Re:Yeah right by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't blame the lack of DirectX for the lack of games on Linux. OpenGL works just fine on it, as it does on Windows.

      And Mac, much to the delight of the four people who want to play games under OS X.

      Don't forget iOS ! Pretty popular gaming platform these days and it supports OpenGL ES 2.0.

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    5. Re:Yeah right by CastrTroy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yes, things were so much better back in the day when you had to have a very specific graphics card, or audio card, or joystick, otherwise the game wouldn't work. Developers had to code for each piece of hardware individually. If you bought a 3dfx voodoo card, there was a bunch of game you could play, and a bunch you couldn't. If you bought the gravis ultrasound, you were very much out of luck because most stuff was coded for the soundblaster, and a lot of stuff lacked support for your third party sound card. Joystick support was a complete mess. Also, games don't look 10 times as good, because then they could only run on 1% of the machines, and that is not a big enough market. Sure faster computers exist, but the computers that most people own are probably about as powerful as a console, especially if you look at the graphics chip.

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    6. Re:Yeah right by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 4, Informative

      > Let's do a quick comparison of how stupidly inefficient game development is...
      > 2. Wii/Gamecube - OpenGL,C/C++
      > 3. PS2/PS3 - OpenGL, C/C++

      Your facts are wrong. I've _shipped_ games on Wii, PS2, amongst other consoles. Currently, I do compiler support on the PS3 and am familiar with the rendering APIs that drive the RSX.

      * The Wii does NOT use OpenGL. I personally know because I wrote an OpenGL implementation over _top_ of the native GX calls. While the GX*() API _is_ strongly _based_ on OpenGL, it is NOT OpenGL.

      * The PS2 does NOT have OpenGL. You either
        a) manually build a packet to set the GS registers,
        b) use the sce*() calls, or
        c) write your own API.
      At one job, where I wrote the Wii-OpenGL, we had an in-house implementation of OpenGL running on the PS2, but that was, again, over _top_ of the native GS registers.

      * There are 2 rendering APIs on the PS3. CGM and OpenGL. I could probably count on one hand the total number developers that have shipped their game with OpenGL. Almost no one ships OpenGL it because it is SLOWER and LESS EFFICIENT then CGM.

      Please get your facts straight before looking like an ignorant fool.

      Cheers

  2. Unification? by paziek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Isn't DirectX and OpenGL there so that developer can write application using DirectX 10 and have it working with any card capable of DirectX and having enough memory? Are we gonna have "Works best in Internet Explorer 6" again for graphic cards? I still remember that whole 3dfx thing and I didn't like it.

    1. Re:Unification? by smallfries · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The whole 3dfx era was horrific, and as someone has already pointed out below DirectX made a huge positive impact in PC gaming. The article describes a real problem though: if I want to hit 50fps then my rendering needs to execute in under 20ms. Performing 5k system calls to draw chunks of geometry means that each syscall needs to be less than 4us, or about 12000 cycles on a 3Ghz processor. That is not a lot of time to do all of the internal housekeeping that the API requires and talk to the hardware as well.

      The solution is not to throw away the API. The interface does need to change drastically, but not to raw hardware access. More of the geometry management needs to move onto the card and that probably means that devs will need to write in some shader language. It's not really lower-level / rawer access to the hardware. It is more that shader languages are becoming standardised as a compilation target and the API is moving on to this new target.

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  3. Hardware needs to change DX is obsolete. by goruka · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Discaimer: I am a pro game developer, wrote a few engines for commercial games, etc. I know what this guy means and ill try to explain it a bit better. The biggest problem with the DX model (which was inherited from GL) is the high dependency on the CPU to instruct it what to do.
    State changes and draw commands are all sent from the CPU, buffered and then processed in the GPU. While this speeds up rendering considerably (the GPU is always a frame ore two behind the CPU) it makes it limiting, to get feedback from the GPU about the rendering state, and since the all the DX/GL commands are buffered, retrieving state or data means flushing/sync.
    From modern algorithms related to occlusion estimation, or global illumination to overall reduction of state changes, it would benefit greatly if, for most tasks, the GPU could act by itself by running an user-made kernel that instructs it what to do (commands and state changes) instead of relying on DX, but for some reason this is not the direction GPUs are heading to, and it really doesnt make sense. Maybe Microsoft has something to do with it, but since Directx9 became the standard for game development, the API only became easier to program in versions 10 and 11, but didn't have major changes.

    1. Re:Hardware needs to change DX is obsolete. by Zevensoft · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've programmed DS game engines as well as high performance industrial OpenGL, and the frustrating thing about OpenGL (or DX, they're both just wrappers around NV or AMD) is the inability to send data in the other direction, ie. from the GPU to the CPU without killing performance. The DS didn't have that problem because the vertex processor was decoupled from the pixel processor, and even still you could redirect outputs wherever you like, as well as having full access to the 4 channel DMA controller! We would do occlusion culling on the vertex processor before animation, and also reducing polygon counts for the rasteriser.

  4. Console APIs vs PC APIs - an explanation by LordHavoc · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The way things work on consoles is approximately similar to Windows/Linux/Mac, except for these important distinctions:
    1. the hardware is a known target, as such the shader compilers and other components are carefully optimized only for this hardware, they do not produce intermediate bytecode formats or make basic assumptions of all hardware.
    2. the APIs allow injecting raw command buffers, which means that you do not have to use the API to deliver geometry in any way shape or form, the overhead goes away but the burden of producing a good command buffer falls on the application when they use these direct-to-hardware API calls.
    3. the APIs have much lower overhead as they are not a middle-man on the way to the hardware, but an API implemented (if not designed) specifically for the hardware. For example Microsoft had the legendary Michael Abrash working on their console drivers.
    4. the hardware memory layout and access bandwidth is known to the developers, and certain optimization techniques become possible, for example rendering to a framebuffer in system memory for software processing (on Xbox 360 this is done for certain effects, on PS3 it is heavily utilized for deferred shading, motion blur and other techniques that run faster on the Cell SPE units), in some cases this has other special implications, like storage of sound effects in video memory on PS3 because the Cell SPE units have a separate memory path to video memory and thus can tap into this otherwise "unused" bandwidth for their purposes of sound mixing.
    5. 3D stereo rendering is basic functionality on consoles.

    The article is making the argument that we should be able to produce command buffers directly and insert them into the rendering stream (akin to OpenGL display-lists but new ones produced every frame instead of statically stored).

    It is also making the argument that we should have explicit control over where our buffers are stored in memory (for instance rendering to system memory for software analysis techniques, like id Software Megatexture technology, which analyzes each frame which parts of the virtual texture need to be loaded).

    There are more subtle aspects, such as knowing the exact hardware capabilities and designing for them, which are less of a "No API!" argument and more of a case of "Please optimize specifically for our cards!", which is a tough sell in the game industry.

    AMD has already published much of the information that studios will need to make use of such functionality, for example the Radeon HD 6000 series shader microcode reference manual is public already.

    Intel also has a track record of hardware specifications being public.

    However NVIDIA is likely to require a non-disclosure agreement with each studio to unlock this kind of functionality, which prevents open discussion of techniques specific to their hardware.

    Overall this may give AMD and Intel a substantial edge in the PC hardware market - because open discussion of graphics techniques is the backbone of the game industry.

    On the fifth point it is worth noting that NVIDIA Geforce drivers offer stereo rendering in Direct3D but not OpenGL (despite it having a stereo rendering API from the beginning), they reserve this feature only for their Quadro series cards for purely marketing reasons, and this restriction prevents use of stereo rendering in many OpenGL-based indie games, another case of consoles besting PC in functionality for ridiculous reasons.

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  5. Nothing is optimized fully for DX11/GL4 yet by rasmusneckelmann · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't think many (if any) game developers are using either OpenGL 4 or DirectX 11 at their full potentials yet. Especially DirectX 11 is designed to allow a lot of multithreading and decoupling the GPU pipeline from the CPU. If you implement a naive rendering engine with OpenGL or DirectX, sure, you'll find that most of the time you're just sitting around waiting for synchronization and buffers flushing. But if you design your software around multithreading and the new API features, you can squeeze a lot more juice out of the system. Also, I'm sure there's a lot of geometry shader pipeline tricks waiting to be discovered, which will further decouple the GPU from the CPU. I wouldn't be surprised if we "soon" see the merging of the vertex and geometry shader pipelines, might even together with compute shaders. When that happens, the differences between OpenGL and DX is propably going to be very minor (and very, very close to the hardware layer).