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Amazon Stymies Lendle E-book Lending Service

CheerfulMacFanboy writes "CNET quotes Lendle co-founder Jeff Croft: 'They [Amazon] shut the API access off, and without it, our site is mostly useless. So, we went ahead and pulled it down. Could we build a lending site without their API? Yes. But it wouldn't be the quality of product we expect from ourselves.' Croft also said 'at least two other Kindle lending services got the same message' yesterday.'"

20 of 237 comments (clear)

  1. Read... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Without the functionality being sanctioned by Amazon's own API, we aren't sure if there is a legal sinkhole waiting to ruin us.

    10$ says Amazon has their own 'lending' service come online involving modest per-loan fees within 6 months.

    1. Re:Read... by JeffSpudrinski · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I know a perfect way to bypass Amazon's API to loan and borrow books.

      Let's consider having a building where we can store them paid for by our taxes. Then we can go and get free memberships and atually have a real book.

      Let's call it a "library".

      Then we can borrow and lend and no one can stop us.

      In all seriousness...this very thing (and similar cases of "big brother-ishness" from Amazon and others) is why I have been anti e-reader. You're granting power to a company to control what you read and how you read it...and you are paying them to do it to you.

      Don't give up freedom for convenience. Amazon has gotten too large in this market and wields too much influence.

      While I hate to see it happen, I foresee some sort of federal regulation of "e-reader's rights".

      Just my $0.02.

      -JJS

  2. Hay guyz by Alex+Belits · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let's make a web site that completely and entirely depends on some interface provided by large perpetually hungry company!

    And compete with that company!

    --
    Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    1. Re:Hay guyz by somersault · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's interesting that the "quality they expect from themselves" depends entirely on them not actually doing any work themselves. I know I could build a quality [insert product here] if I were given enough time to research and develop. The fact that they say it just wouldn't be good enough, rather than it would take too long, is kind of sad.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    2. Re:Hay guyz by outsider007 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think they mean that without the API, the most important features are missing. Unless your research and development includes hacking Amazon, I don't see what you could accomplish.

      --
      If you mod me down the terrorists will have won
    3. Re:Hay guyz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why would you buy a book that can:

      a) be remotely disabled

      b) be remotely altered

      c) decide when/where/how you read it.

      All under the control of Amazon... a profit driven company.

      It's basically sleepwalking into 1984.

    4. Re:Hay guyz by LambdaWolf · · Score: 3, Interesting

      the reason 1984 was disabled remotely was because of copyright issues in that the person who posted it to the store did not have the rights to it and therefore, neither did Amazon.

      And they should have eaten the liability for selling something they shouldn't have. They had no right to force their customers to share the burden of their error by screwing with something that was theirs, not even if they provided refunds.

      Yes, it was a little hinky in that if it was a physical copy, they probably wouldn't have...

      The analogy is inapplicable. The point is they weren't selling a physical copy, they were selling a digital copy, and they dishonestly reneged on the transaction.

      Also, everything about getting your books electronically can also be applied to all content anywhere and especially over the internet, where every aspect of the interaction is driven by or on commercially motivated resources and systems.

      False. If I pay to download an MP3 or PDF over FTP, that file is mine and the seller is never going to be able to delete it (at least not without engaging in some black-hat stuff). Paying for ephemeral permission to access something within a walled garden is totally different.

      --
      "This algorithm runs in constant time. Come on, 2,147,483,648 is a constant..."
  3. eBook Fling not using API by cerberusss · · Score: 4, Informative

    I've used the eBook Fling site, and they don't seem to use an API. Their site is built around their users following a number of steps to lend eBooks to each other, each step described in an iFrame below which the Amazon site is displayed.

    They're probably still good to go, although the site has a number of deficiencies. For example, Amazon only allows US-based Kindle owners to lend books. They're not clear about this (you can't find it on the site) and eBook Fling doesn't tell you either. So I've wasted an hour or so finding out what was wrong with either eBook Fling or my Amazon account, until an Amazon rep finally figured out that I wasn't US-based.

    --
    8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
  4. No problem... by curious.corn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... on TPB business goes on as usual.

    Har, har, har

    --
    Mi domando chi à il mandante di tutte le cazzate che faccio - Altan
  5. Dear Amazon by argStyopa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While I understand that the Kindle is sold somewhat as a loss-leader and a mechanism to try to sell ebooks for absurd prices (it's bad enough that paperbacks are $9; to charge that same price that costs you NOTHING to duplicate, NOTHING to store, NOTHING to ship, NOTHING to advertise is...hard to swallow), at some point even your lawyer-swaddled management must recognize that if one too blatantly attacks all *reasonable* means of use of that hardware, the only things left are going to be people who are willing and able to use your hardware WITHOUT your consent/cooperation, ie pirates.

      Cutting off Lendle (and with a classy c&d sent from a 'do not reply' email address and no recourse to appeal or discuss), secretly editing books, purging books that people have purchased - all of these things simply indicate that you as a vendor are untrustworthy. Therefore the trusting will go elsewhere, the unscrupulous will continue to use Kindles and here's the kick: you're not going to see a DIME of their activities.

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:Dear Amazon by Darth_brooks · · Score: 4, Informative

      "to charge that same price that costs you NOTHING to duplicate, NOTHING to store, NOTHING to ship, NOTHING to advertise is...hard to swallow"

      Especially if you don't grasp the concept that bandwidth, server storage space, and advertising (with the same requisite bandwidth and storage costs) AREN'T FREE EITHER. But hey, keep thinking that the latest churning of Harry Potter or the Twilight series are hosted off some 20gig harddrive hooked up to a old PII in some guy's basement.

      Amazon gets their cut *after the publishers*, the same scrupulous people that were at the root of the 1984 / book deletion mess in the first place (but who am I to get in the way of some perfectly good nerd rage?).

      --
      There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
  6. So pick different authors, like C.J. Cherryh by Warwick+Allison · · Score: 4, Interesting

    CJ Cherryh sells her books cheap and DRM free, see http://www.cherryh.com/, at least those for which she can wrest the rights back from publishers. Such direct book sales from authors, cuttong out publishers AND bookstores (brick like Borders or vaporous like Amazon) will get progressively easier. Just like the music industry will eventually learn, gouging your customers always loses in the long run.

  7. Trust by sakdoctor · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I trust warez release groups more than Amazon. That's so wrong.

  8. Re:Capitalism At Its Finest by Eivind · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Nah. Somewhere in between is better.

    We do need some system of rewarding people who work hard, or else, evidence shows, people will just slack, and you end up not with everyone equally rich, but instead with everyone equally poor, so to say.

    On the flipside, we do also need mechanisms for ensuring that capitalism is a servant of the people - and not it's master.

    I tend to think the scandinavian countries hit the balance close to optimal, but offcourse I'm biased, being Norwegian myself. Some people would say we're -too- socialist, while others would say we're not -enough- socialist, to a certain degree it's a matter of personal taste, I guess.

    But I think it's fairly clear-cut that capitalism in the USA, needs *more* moderating influence, and that it has gone too far in the direction of giving power to the wealthy.

  9. Re:Capitalism At Its Finest by WorBlux · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The DMCA is not a result of trade in the marketplace. It is the result of trade in the political economy, that is to say of state power and privilege.

  10. Pardon my ignorance by grizdog · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Does this sort of thing happen often? If Oracle decides I have too many weeds in my yard, will my Java programs stop working?

    Seriously, is the wave of the present/future APIs with all sorts of tests in them so they do different things for different users? Sounds both intriguing and insidious.

  11. Re:Capitalism At Its Finest by LordNacho · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Being from another Scandinavian country myself, I have to disagree. The nanny state is huge, and people are no longer able to be responsible for themselves. Everyone thinks about their rights, not their obligations to society. Also, there's a great deal of Jantelov thinking, which is basically an institutional form of jealousy. The scandies need to consider that they're no longer in an isolated, homogeneous part of the world, where everyone agrees about what the public pot should be spent on.

    But anyway, that's not the main point I wanted to make. It's not that giving power to the wealthy is the main problem. (Sure, it can be a problem, no doubt.) The problem is giving power to large institutions. Microsoft, AT&T, Shell, etc... government is yet another example. If you ever work with or for one of these behemoths, it's understandable why you're frustrated. Large organisations lack common sense in their decision making, and they lack common empathy in their dealings with ordinary individuals. Due to their size (and influence) they're also able to live beyond their useful age, holding up resources (people, mainly) from more productive uses. Unfortunately, the west has institutionalized a system where the big firms work with the big governments to make sure neither of them is ever renewed. If organisations were smaller, we'd have a much more healthy society, where useful firms live, and old, unproductive ones die.

  12. Re:Capitalism At Its Finest by bberens · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I would suggest getting catastrophic coverage. The cost is unbelievably cheap and you will be protected in the event of some major health event: cancer, severe accident, etc.

    Cool story bro time...
    I'm in my 20s and healthy. I would be like you (except with catastrophic coverage mentioned before) if my employer didn't provide insurance, but they do. Last year I was in an accident and broke my arm. The total costs (to my insurance company) for the ride to the ER, surgery to screw my bones back together, a couple days in the hospital, and some physical therapy afterwards was over $50k. A couple things to note here. That $50k would have bankrupted my family if we had to pay that out of pocket. More importantly though... while I was in the ER I got to hear the initial patient questions they asked everyone in the room... Name, what happened, do you have insurance, etc. I can tell you based on the responses to those questions that my $50k of health care probably only cost about half that, because several people didn't have any form of insurance... But the hospital had to pay for doctors, nurses, beds, food, etc. for every one of them. The hospital I went to is non-profit. And sure, the President makes a big paycheck as do the doctors, but there's not massive corporate profits going into the pockets of some benefactor. In fact, the big local for-profit hospital will just do enough to keep you alive and then offer you a free ride to the non-profit hospital I was at.

    --
    Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
  13. Re:Capitalism At Its Finest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You've previously stated that you make close to $150k, why not just say that instead of skirting around the question?

    Oh, I know, it's because you know no one will take your claim of being "poor" seriously. Well, fortunately for us, this isn't 4chan and your posts never get erased.

    Have a nice day. :)

  14. Re:Capitalism At Its Finest by Stormthirst · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What makes me really laugh about the Americans whinging about people spending their taxes on healthcare, is that despite spending nearly twice as much per capita on healthcare than Canada, they still have a lower life expectancy for reference and their infant mortality is significantly higher. And even funnier, their % of government revenue spent on health, is higher than Canada too.

    Surely a solution to this is for the government to regulate the healthcare and medical insurance industries to ensure the cost isn't completely ridiculous so EVERYONE can afford healthcare.

    Oh - and before anyone bleats on about not being able to see a doctor when you like - Canada has a very similar number of physicians per capita to America. There is no need for rationing.

    Also - for the parent posting - when will you decide your body is failing enough for you to get insurance? When you're 30? When you're 40? When you're 50? Sickness can strike at any time - it's not just limited to the old.