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Federal Judge Rejects Google Books Deal

14erCleaner writes "US Circuit Judge Denny Chin has rejected a $125 million settlement between Google Books and the author's guild that would have allowed Google to publish all out-of-work fiction online. Chin has previously ruled more favorably on this case."

16 of 234 comments (clear)

  1. How does some guild get authority by assemblerex · · Score: 5, Interesting

    to represent all authors of out of print fiction? Can I install myself
    as the representative for all out of print romance?
    What a load of cowpucks

    1. Re:How does some guild get authority by blair1q · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They sue as a class.

      The lead plaintiffs will be the guild and a few of its members. They'll extend the class to include all of the Guild's members and anyone else who's ever learned to scrape a pencil without breaking the point. Most of the class won't know they're in it until all the litigating is over.

      The rest of the members will be mailed a notification of settlement, including instructions on how to get their $0.38 share of the award (the lawyers, of course, will get about $45M off the top).

      The notification will include instructions on several ways not to get your $0.38, one of which will be to opt-out, retaining your rights to sue Google as an individual.

      Good luck spending $10 million protecting the copyright on a book you can't get anyone to print even for a fee any more.

      Oh, and dear Google, did you mispell one or more of the words in "Don't Be Evil"?

    2. Re:How does some guild get authority by hawguy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The rest of the members will be mailed a notification of settlement, including instructions on how to get their $0.38 share of the award (the lawyers, of course, will get about $45M off the top).

      Except that there's no payment for anyone (except the laywers, of course), because the judge rejected the settlement -- Google wanted to pay $125M for the ability to make out-of-print books available online, giving authors the ability to opt out. The judge suggests that opt-in would be better, but I'd guess that there are many more out-of-print books with authors that are dead, just-don't-care or would be happy that their books will be available, than those that want their out-of-print book to stay out of print because they have some grand plan to reissue it some day.

      So the opt-in model is far less valuable to public (and to Google) because it means that far fewer out-of-print books can be made available.

    3. Re:How does some guild get authority by Kjella · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I do get the point of class actions, but it should be an essential requirement in such settlements that the defendant cease the activity hurting the plaintiffs. Just because Toyota settles a class action over faulty brakes don't mean they now have a perpetual legal indemnity to continue shipping faulty brakes. Yet Google wants to retain the right to continue using all these works, it's a licensing scheme not a damage settlement. Just because I happen to be part of a class doesn't mean that class should be able to license my work at will. That is a grant, not a settlement.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:How does some guild get authority by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So the opt-in model is far less valuable to public (and to Google) because it means that far fewer out-of-print books can be made available.

      I was a member of this class, and I'm glad this settlement got overturned. I don't have any out-of-print books, apparently the class included everyone who had a book copyright registered in the USA - Google is indexing and posting online all books that they can, not just ones that are out of print. The reason that I'm glad that the settlement was overturned is that it gives Google far too much power. After paying the token sum, Google may put any out of print books online, but anyone else doing so gets a statutory fine for wilful copyright infringement of $750-$150,000 per book.

      Google basically gambled that they could violate copyright on all books and get away with it. Rather than lobbying to make some sane changes to copyright law, they want copyright to remain overly strict, but to just apply to everyone except them. One law for Google, one law for everyone else. Of course, it's okay because Google isn't evil...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    5. Re:How does some guild get authority by VertigoAce · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The issue here is that it isn't possible for anybody else to negotiate the same deal Google was going for with this settlement. Google was trying to reach a deal with an entire class, not a specific group of authors. So while a competitor could negotiate a similar deal with specific authors or groups of authors, they would be unable to create a deal with the entire class of authors (unless faced with a class action lawsuit and able to negotiate the same settlement).

      It sounds like the judge agreed with this objection and indicated that the deal might work if authors needed to opt-in rather than opt-out. Under an opt-in system, authors could opt-in to a competitor's service as well as Google's. Alternatively, Google could try to get copyright law changed so that their opt-out system would be allowed by law (and competitors could set up similar systems without facing infringement lawsuits).

    6. Re:How does some guild get authority by mysidia · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It sounds like the judge agreed with this objection and indicated that the deal might work if authors needed to opt-in rather than opt-out. Under an opt-in system, authors could opt-in to a competitor's service as well as Google's.

      Sounds like the Judge's ruling could be overturned on appeal. Google's competitors are not party to the class action suit.

      The court is to accept the settlement if it is fair and equitable to members of the class suing. The quotation is problematic

      rewarding it for engaging in wholesale copying of copyrighted works without permission, while releasing claims well beyond those presented in the case.”

      The court is concentrating on the settlement containing a "reward" for Google. But it is not unusual, when parties settle, for the agreement to contain terms that reward both parties. In this case it is not a zero sum game -- Google's "wholesale copying" is beneficial to the settlement class, if only, Google can compensate them, and the legal action is Google's only opportunity to do so.

  2. A Point by DaMattster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Judge Chin does make a good point. Even though the book is out of print, the author is still the copyright holder and should have say in whether or not the out of print book may go into a Google digital library. After all, maybe the publisher decided to drop the book because it wasn't selling and the author may want to look for a different publisher or attempt to self-publish. I can see the digitalization of out of print material where the author is deceased and therefore has no say in the matter.

    1. Re:A Point by hawguy · · Score: 4, Funny

      How can you tell with 100% certainty if the author of any given work is deceased?

      You could send out a team to kill him and document it.

    2. Re:A Point by Rockoon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So a publisher can send your book directly to the public domain by simply declining to continue printing it? Really?

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
  3. That's what *he* said. by jvonk · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How does some guild get authority to represent all authors of out of print fiction?

    Well, according to TFB (blurb), that's essentially the judge's rationale for rejecting the deal.

    I am torn: on one hand, I believe that copyright law no longer "promotes the progress of Science and useful Arts", so I would like to see Google have the ability to make a sweeping digital library of abandonware books (seriously, if the authors aren't selling the book, how are they harmed?)

    However, if this deal went through, it seems likely that it would have been the birth of another MAFIAA-style intellectual property racket.

    So, perhaps we are considering the situation from an artificially constrained viewpoint. The pragmatic approach to getting the digital library would have been to take the deal with this newborn devil, but we would have to live with those consequences. The idealistic approach would be to "fix" copyright law so that such a library could be created... you know, the better to "promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts".

    Does anyone else want some of what I am apparently smoking to cause me to have such fantastic & vague ideas (haha)? Maybe I got hit on the head or something.

  4. Re:Victory against Google-oply = good by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That's only part of the problem. The other part is that Google would have been granted a license to disregard copyright (for the cheap price of $125m! That's about 30 cents per American. Don't you wish that you collectively could by an exemption from copyright or that little?), but no one else would have. I wouldn't have minded if Google had been advocating a change to the law to make this kind of archive possible. Some form of compulsory licensing with fixed royalty rates would have been great. But a ruling that lets Google violate copyright but prevents their competitors from doing the same thing? That's pretty horrible.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  5. Let's clear something up... by GrumpySteen · · Score: 5, Informative

    2.4 Non-Exclusivity of Authorizations.

    The authorizations granted to Google in this Amended Settlement Agreement are non-exclusive only, and nothing in this Amended Settlement Agreement shall be construed as limiting any Rightsholderâ(TM)s right to authorize, through the Registry or otherwise, any Person, including direct competitors of Google, to use his, her or its Books or Inserts in any way, including ways identical to those provided for under this Amended Settlement Agreement.

    Google was not trying to get exclusive rights to anything. Anyone and everyone else would have been free to scan in books and sell them exactly like Google wanted to do.

    Everyone posting here about how evil Google is for wanting exclusive rights to sell these books is wrong. None of them have read the proposed settlement and they have no clue what they're talking about. They're spreading FUD and you idiots are falling for it.

    1. Re:Let's clear something up... by I3OI3 · · Score: 5, Informative
      No, you're absolutely right. Absolutely anybody else who wanted to could compete by:
      * Openly commiting a massive infringement (note that non-massive infringement would not be sufficient)
      * Being sued by the Author's Guild
      * Having that suit granted a class action status
      * Having a large enough legal team you can fight the class action lawyers
      * Convincing the class action lawyers that they should settle into a business deal instead of cashing out
      * Ensuring that this deal is sweeter for the lawyers than Google's or they'll just keep monopoly rents through Google

      Yep. There's no exclusive rights here at all.

  6. unobtainable books. by mirix · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A while back I was doing some research on vacuum tube based logic circuits (don't ask). My random googling brought up repeated mention of several books. They may even be public domain by now, I'm unsure. They dated to around WWII.

    Anyhow, regardless of copyright status, the things were absolute fucking unobtainium. It really is a shame that things like this essentially get lost to the wheel of time. Whether it be due to copyright, or just plain being out of print and public domain. It's a crime against knowledge.

    Fortunately I don't think this will be the case in the future, as most currently released books are surely digitized (legally or not) and hopefully will be around by the time they are hopelessly obsolete, out of print, lacking demand, commercially unviable, and/or enter public domain.

    --
    Sent from my PDP-11
  7. Re:lame by Stuntmonkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think you're missing the core issue. Google scanning a bunch of books and then not showing them to anybody is hard to make out as a crime against humanity. The crime against humanity is a copyright system that renders nearly all out-of-print books (i.e., 95% of books ever written) as orphans, protected against copying but with authors that are long-gone (in many cases long-dead). Everyone loses in this situation: Authors of out of print books cannot make money, readers can't get the books unless they live close to a good library, and publishers receive no revenue from this back-catalog of older material. The core question is, how do we get all of that content to be useful again? The judge's "solution" of opt-in is no solution, because by definition orphaned works have no rights holder to opt in for them.

    The correct answer would be to change our copyright laws to accomodate for orphaned works. With this ruling I hope Congress finally grows the stones to take that on, however with the Hollywood lobby I'm not hopeful. In the end we will likely have millions of volumes of our culture simply vanish as at the library of Alexandria, all because nobody cares.