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US To Send Radiation-Hardened Robots To Japan
CWmike writes "The United States is sending specialized robots to Japan to help officials there get control of the Fukushima nuclear power plants damaged in this month's devastating earthquake and tsunami. Dr. Peter Lyons, an acting assistant secretary for nuclear energy with the DoE, said the robots, which could be sent into areas that would be dangerous for humans to enter because of high radiation levels, could begin to give officials readings on the environment inside the nuclear power plants. Lyons told the US Senate on Tuesday, 'We are moving expeditiously to ship not only the robots but also operators who perhaps will be used to train Japanese operators. We don't know yet how close the operators will need to be to the site.' Asked about getting information about the state of the damaged reactors, Lyons said the robots could provide some information. 'Certainly not all we need, but some,' he said."
How about that. The US is sending robots to Japan. For our next trick, we will sell coal to Newcastle.
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
I welcome our robot overlords, if they can help keep us safe.
Why wasn't this done sooner? And while I'm asking, how come we didn't fly in power generators to keep the pumps running before things started to melt?
Oh wait, that would cost money, and the people with the money can just move. Didn't Marx write something about that? Oh well, all anybody can remember about him is that some dictator or another used his books for rhetoric + free advertising.
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That did not take long at all. Not at all.
Sounds about like shipping ice to Antarctica. Surely all their robotics R&D didn't go to violin playing, grandma bathing, ramen making, Godzilla fighting bots? Am I missing something?
Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once
The US has a plethora of hardened death row inmates. Why not use them? Nothing could posibly go wrong (yes, I spelled it that way on purpose, Simpsons reference). It can be the basis of either a fictional or based-on-a-true-story type summer blockbuster movie in a couple years.
the US is giving Japan robots!!!
France, Germany, and the US are all sending over rugged robots designed to work in disaster areas, collapsed building sites, and war zones. Strangely, Japan doesn't seem to have those.
I'm amazed that TEPCO hadn't at least brought in a few hobby-type R/C quadrotors or helicopters with TV cameras to get a look at areas they couldn't reach, like the spent fuel pools. For days, they didn't even know the water levels in those pools. Attempts were made to peer through holes in the roof with high-altitude flyovers, but that produced results like "we see some water in the pools, but can't tell how much."
The biggest problem with TEPCO has been eliminated. The CEO was just canned for "health reasons". He's been in hiding since the earthquake.
Why, yes, Billy, not only will we fly our cars to the moon for lunch, but we will have robots. Radiation-fighting American robots!
France already sent hardened robots over a week ago. Apparently the Japanese got offended that someone dared to offer to help them. http://www.groupe-intra.com/pages2/intervention/moyens1.htm . I would not be surprised if they also reject the US ones.
I guess unless it's a receptionist, takes care of the elderly or allows you to have telepresence then it ain't in Japan.
Latest news is that things are progressively becoming worse. Radiation OUTSIDE the evac zone is now exceeding the safe limits in some towns.
People in towns outside the evac region are being told to prepare to leave if conditions worsen.
This disaster appears to unfold like many others, with repeated assurances that things are OK and will be contained at this point, followed by failure and progressively worse conditions.
Radioactivity in the seawater outside the Fukushima plant continues to increase, and is now at the worst levels seen since the disaster. This is thought to be a sign that water is leaking into and back out of the core through cracks in the containment. Tepco is accused of covering up the worst problems.
A tragic lack of foresight here. All for the love of... There's no way to convince me this scenario wasn't anticipated, and dismissed as "absurd" or for "lack of funds". Damn people could have remote controlled bulldozers and back hoes to move the heavy shit, y'know, do actual work.
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
The Japanese are focused on making more elegant, precise, nimble & human-like robots, where as the US is more focused on more bulky, industrial, people-killing robots, that can take a beating and still work. At least that is the arbitrary opinion I've formed from mass media consumption.
I think they're out of options by now. Man I hate groupthink .. err.. I mean "culture", sometimes.. there are many aspects of Japanese culture that I find interesting and enjoyable, but a lot of the "honour" stuff has always seemed a bit much. Especially if it causes nuclear materials to blow around the rest of the world.
which is totally what she said
Sounds like the plot of an Anime movie...
Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
Fuck you. Go back to 4chan.
They key here is "radiation hardened", the robots and cameras will both be so, they are from Idaho National Laboratory, the nation's Nuclear R&D facility. Your PC or typical hobby type remote controlled gear would go ape-shit in a high rad environment from charged particles being created in the silicon.
The problems with TEPCO and the current crisis will continue with or without the former CEO, as they have for decades
Goatse Warning!
I heard France was even sending robots, the only question is are they to help aid or fight the malfunctioning Japanese robots?
It's like the mind going AWOL, it's there somewhere
I believe that the US sent similar robots to Chernobyl after the accident, although they failed due to the amount of debris and extreme radiation. Then the Soviets sent in human "bio-robots" in 40 second shifts to do the same jobs. Hopefully technology has improved since then (and the situation is not as dire).
Domo Arigato, Mr. hardened-against-radiation Roboto!
Battlemaster--Game with friends in medival realms
Eh? how is a remote controlled bulldozer or backhoe going to do anything useful as far as checking reactor vessel and spent fuel pools and turbine building? They don't climb ladders and stairs and fit in aisles between pipes Cranes and lifts are very useful at a nuke plant, the things you mentioned only come on site for new roads and buildings and security modifications.
Japan turned away several French trade missions before the United States' Commodore Perry came along and said "trade or we'll blow your shit up."
Even if things have come a long way since colonialism, I wouldn't be surprised if American diplomats were a little more forceful (and had more leverage) than French ones about insisting that aid be taken.
I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
But we have them http://www.groupe-intra.com/pages2/intervention/moyens4.htm.
where are all of Japan's robots? If there were a time to move the island and reveal the robot army underneath it would be now...
Oh...oh dear. They have turned on their masters!
I've seen the news of Groupe-Intra sending rad-hardened robots (and a few companies from other countries), but where is your source saying they were rejected? Note japan doesn't have nuclear weapons program, but I strongly suspect that countries that have them are the ones with thriving rad-hardened robot industry (a mainly military-industrial complex thing with some civilian application)
Even Godzilla is a little nervous around that one.
Yay for urgency. Fresh water is finally being hauled in by the US navy as well ... about two weeks after they ran out of coolant inventory.
Will there be a reckoning for this foot dragging? No one responsible for Fukushima has acted with anything like the urgency we should expect of companies and governments that operate these reactors.
Hardened robots mean we may soon learn how much spent fuel got lofted by the fires. Brace yourself; every power reactor incident in history has surprised the engineers when they finally got eyeballs on the problem. Credible and well meaning people denied major core melt at TMI-2 for six years until the first camera was lowered into the RPV.
TEPCO officially announced they're scrapping reactors 1 through 4. This is a formality really; recovering those reactors is not feasible. The important thing to notice is that this omits 5 and 6. Those reactors will be put on-line again, just like TMI-1 and Chernobyl 1, 2, and 3. They know, however, that it is much too early to float that balloon.
I am a nuclear advocate. I just don't defend incompetence, poor judgment or neglect. There just isn't any room for it if you're going to burn matter and expect the trust of the people that grant you the liberty.
Lurking at the bottom of the gravity well, getting old
He ought to know what to do. Sepuku is mandatory. This being 2011, we expect it streamed on the Internet.
If he's too much of a wimp, an acceptable alternative would be to drink water from the core.
Then they should have been on the first plane out...
This is still a pisser... Complete negligence on the part of those with the resources to mitigate this.
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
they'd make it easier to level the area, and pour a huge slab of concrete over it. which is what will likely happen anyway...
I was using them as an example. Stay on topic here. The point is that we have machinery to deal with this (see AC's response below), and it's not being mobilized quickly enough due to negligent lack of preparation for mostly monetary purposes. It's completely inexcusable.
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
Correction, actually, http://www.groupe-intra.com/pages2/intervention/moyens5.htm are closer to bulldozers.
Japanese refused french robots, don't know which ones (indoors, outdoors or civil engineering ones).
What is a "radiation-hardened" robot? Isn't anything that doesn't have mutation sensitive DNA "radiation-hardened"? In other words, any robot?
Or maybe they mean the robot gets an erection from the radiation. Yeah, that's probably it.
Find one that is skilled enough to be of any use in such a situation.
People on death row are not generally known for their level of education. Most of them are poor, uneducated and probably recovering drug addicts.
Now maybe you think you'll find something for them to do, anybody can tighten a bolt, right?
Hah. Get some experience with mechanics and you'll realize that it's more trouble than it is worth to get completely unskilled people into a work site.
That can be done old-school way, no robotics needed, just respirator and suit and watch the dosimeter.
First link was okay... It gets the point across on just how bungled this whole mess is.
Japanese refused french robots...
For real?
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
The topic is measuring radiation in high-rad areas, and remote viewing. It remains to be seen how useful such machinery will be or even if any use at all. Wasting tens of millions on something of no use is not what I would want my power company to do, just raise rates. Instead they could have spent mere hundreds of thousands to put half of their 13 gen sets up high and this would have been a non-event.
I don't get why these responses are so slow. Shouldn't they have been prepped to leave the moment nuke fears were announced, and sent over after the first explosion? It's not like radiation hardened robots have full time jobs here.
So these robots will be powered by the new radioactive sake, not the old-fashioned regular one?
Seriously, if they'd had a reliable backup diesel generator we wouldn't have these problems in the first place.
It's pretty easy to sit back and do an armchair analysis of the situation after the shit has already hit the fan.
Its not quite armchair analysis when its standard operating procedure at other sites.
The flooding caused by the tsunami knocked those generators offline. I live in an area that's prone to flooding and it's harder than you think to keep even a small generator out of harm's way when the water level starts rising.
And in southern california a power plant on the coast has backup generators in storage farther inland on higher ground. I'm not saying the so cal plant is necessarily better designed or prepared, I'm am just arguing against the armchair claim on this particular backup generator point.
That makes sense, I was trying to figure out what aspect of them was in need of hardening.
So we're sending T-800s to Japan?
I helped a tiny bit with the WorkHorse version a quarter century ago as a volunteer hanging out in his lab back then:
http://www.new.ans.org/pubs/magazines/download/a_671
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
If you can read french
http://www.smartplanet.fr/smart-technology/accident-nucleaire-les-robots-francais-recales-au-japon-1438/
If you you can understand spoken french, listen the video is at 21mn58: "le japon n'a pas donné suite à l'offre française d'envoyer des robots":
"Japan didn't follow up on french offer to send robots" (not a professional translator). The man speaking is the president of the ASN (nuclear security authority).
This was on March 21st. The offer was on March 18th: http://medias.edf.com/communiques-de-presse/tous-les-communiques-de-presse/communiques-2011/le-gie-intra-envoie-des-robots-et-du-materiel-specialise-pour-assister-le-japon-83558.html (frennch also).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=638S8n2_Ab8
.
Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
Ah ha! I knew something was fishy about this story... Taisei set to introduce robots for N-cleanup. I knew my faith in Japanese robotics wasn't misplaced. This is just a PR stunt by a iRobot.
Japan has plenty of radiation hardened robots. We need to stop feeding the PR plebes, it just encourages them. [Whats the term for mixed cliché?]
So, the rad-hardened robots will have a gap in their rad-hardening, and will slightly mutate. Then, they will start feeding from the radiation sources, and keep mutating. Three months from now, we will find a spontaneously-generated Mazinger. Which will be quite handy, FWIW, as lizards have already started mutating into little Godzillas by now.
It had to happen in Japan. They don't have animators - They have prophets.
Not particularly surprising when you consider that Japanese robot manufacturers have generally focused on manufacturing, healthcare or the consumer sector. And they produce legions of relatively worthless robots. I'm not sure why they haven't quite linked their prowess to more practical applications. At least they make them prettier than the robots Americans produce.
One has to wonder why they didn't send those robots like a month ago.
Seriously, how long has it been? How long has the media gone apeshit over this nuclear incident? How long has disaster been narrowly averted by an overworked skeleton-crew of plant-workers?
I, for one, welcome our radiation hardened robotic overlords
Did a ED-209 wipe out the former CEO?
A "tragedy" that has yet to result in a single human death. Let's keep some perspective.
I'll racking my brain trying to figure out how to insert a quip about sharks and lasers, but I'm drawing a blank. Ah well.
Gus: Banging... yuck! It amazes me that although I'm a robot, I am infinitely more evolved and refined than you are. I would never bang someone.
Chode: Yeah, because you can't! You can't afford the banging attachment!
Gus: [ Sighs ]
oh yeah, robocop's comic relief foil. had to look that one up..thought you were referring to medical condition.
The French robots were ready to ship over 2 weeks ago, but were told that they would not be allowed to enter Japan without an official request from the government. That request came on Monday this week. The Japanese need to ask some serious questions of TEPCO, their government and their culture of bureaucracy relating to the handling of this disaster. Unfortunately, they will probably just lap up the face saving excuses, say "sho ga nai", and continue their lives as they were.
Better dead here than deader in the Core. Ye gods, whatta meesa sayin'?
Assess the danger yourself. Tools and resources to help you make an informed decision about the true ramifications the Fukushima Plant Failure will have on the World's health and environment.
http://www.adtorrent.com/2011/03/26/assess-the-fukushima-danger-for-your-self-tools-and-resources-for-an-informed-decision/
What was was I thinking?! I always forget that part.. Somebody has to die first.. and of course it has to be statistically significant.. It looks like they're handling the homeless situation even worse, or about as well as FEMA. You know. after thousands of years of this kind of thing, you'd think we would learn something from it. This market ideology has us sacrificing robustness for brittle efficiency. We would be so much farther along in handling natural events if not for that.
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
Somebody has to die first..
Consider that several people on Slashdot have called the Fukushima accident the second worst nuclear accident, ignoring that the current second place is occupied by a Soviet accident which is thought to have killed 200 people directly. There are even several medical radiotherapy accidents which have killed people and hence, are worse in relevant ways than Fukushima. Perspective is needed.
It looks like they're handling the homeless situation even worse, or about as well as FEMA
We ignore, of course, that FEMA is pretty good at its job. The failure from the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina occurred because FEMA was pushed out of the primary disaster response position and nobody else put in, not because they are in any way incompetent. You're basically saying that Japan is performing about as well as the best disaster response organization on the planet.
You know. after thousands of years of this kind of thing, you'd think we would learn something from it. This market ideology has us sacrificing robustness for brittle efficiency. We would be so much farther along in handling natural events if not for that.
Now, if only there were evidence for your assertion. I wonder what you think proper disaster recovery for a magnitude 9 earthquake with tsunami that are known to have killed at least 10,000 people? It's not like leaves falling on your lawn. You don't just rake for a little while and it's done. It'll take years for some areas to recover, even if you have a so-called "robust" society.
Right after the quake and tsunami when the reactors were compromised I was wondering why Japan didn't immediately use robots in areas that were too dangerous for human workers. I understand that radiation hardened bots may not have been readily available, but even a bomb disposal bot must have had some use even if it fried after a short tiime. Every minute they could decrease the rad exposure to human workers would be well worth sacrificing a robot. It has been almost 3 weeks.
What on earth took so long for Japan and/or aiding countries to do this?
Japan as a country is more worried about licking its earthquake and tsunami wounds, as well as the power rationing in the east, and the economy looking even worse for wear than prior to the disasters. I wouldn't be surprised if all that trouble is enough for the japanese to be unable to find their own robots right now and coordinate their attack, when they're grieving a lot worse than New York did for 9/11.
I would say that even if they did have their robots [and said robots were radiation-ready], they would be property of private companies [not keen on lending them because they're being used for something private rather than sitting in some closet in powersave mode] and of the government (just like with the USA robots being sent).
Japan also appears to have some quirks regarding technology. Their R&D is useless if we extrapolate from their lack of breakthroughs on anything other than "robots that serve tea", to "look female" "do small talk" and do other cute things normal for japan --to be fair, they can wing it because innovation must take bad turns to find good ones, and they're the Apple of the automotive, miniaturization and robot revolution. Regardless, it seems that rather than actual hard factory work, they're advancing little except for just trying to make them more human. On-looking countries don't suffer from Japan's loss, so it's easier for them to extend a hand and provide more practical bots.
Regarding the CEO, I cannot be the only geek who in saw that in light that the whole world is tuned-in now they should not have used for HIM the same old excuse that a mere mangaka (a Japanese comics artist) pulls when he or she gets writers' block. This is surprising given that the Japanese work ethic is that they are about 5 years more loyal to a company in average, supposely have 6-day workweeks and similar school days and summer-long prep classes, and supposely they don't suffer from people going postal as much as in the USA. Maybe it's a cultural thing, but in outside Japan being "very sick from exhaustion" is grounds for a quick firing. Then again, the some of the above conditions would make a lot of us flinch when we're told they have larger suicide rates.
Yeah and the French and German radiation hardened robots that were proposed to Japan are able to do more than just cary a camera... The management of this crisis is really bad as precious time has been lost to national pride.
What do you mean, out of options? They detail their options on a daily basis in every press conference they hold.
Currently they are trying to remove the radioactive water from the trench connecting the reactor building to the combine room, and once that is done they will continue with power restoration to get cooling systems back online. Removing the water will also help them determine what kind of additional damage they are facing, if there are water leaks, and whether any circuit boards need to be replaced.
They are also currently trying to decide on ways to minimize the spread of airborne radiation further, including a liquid material that will reduce dust in the area and a specialized tarp that will keep radiation from spreading from the damage reactor buildings.
Seriously. Just visit some reputable news sources once in a while:
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/ http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsunamiupdate01.html
All. We're talking high neutron flux, high gamma radiation here. Stuck inside a reactor, regular steel grows as brittle as glass. Quartz windows grow milky and opaque. Glass eventually turns black. Yes, that includes the glass in the fiber optic link you were so cunningly planning to use to avoid having to rely on radio for control and data links while surrounded by broad-spectrum RF sources and rebar-reinforced concrete that's a couple meters thick. Oh, you'll go for plain old copper? Better watch that cable's electrical insulation, then, 'cause polymers tend to depolymerize in such an environment. Oh, and make sure your cable is also RF-shielded and properly grounded, 'cause otherwise the induced currents will fry your sensors (which have to be able to take the odd transient pulse in stride, regardless).
All these issues are well known, but building useful robots to this kind of specs is non-trivial.
They are out of options of being able to approach the reactor site for any length of time without basically sentencing people to death.
which is totally what she said
Look at cheap $60 parts for remote control planes , like flighttest on youtube does for hobbyking suppliers.
You can get a 2.4ghz video feeds low power that work for 1000 meters easy.
Seriously, who ever built a 100meter range video feed, is utterly lame.
I expect 5 figure $$ robots to give me at least 25km range, (trappy got 24km range on his plane using $100 transmitters)
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Give every building 100% cover of solar panels as first stage backups on the roof.
2. Place 1000s of solar panels 5km away from the shore where they are safe.
or place the gennys up on the hill dude. That didnt get wet.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
To me, robots have to be at least semi-autonomous. These are really just really advanced remote controlled cars. Am I wrong?
Life sucks, but death doesn't put out at all. -- Thomas J. Kopp
.... world leader in robot technology? I am surprised they don't have the tools to do this.
Where are the Gundans, Valkyries, Patlabors, Wantzers and EVAs?
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
It also comes when a HEMI and runs on diesel because our robots are build for the working man, who need to do work.
Ya, its radiation hardened, hard like the folks they buy them, and it doesn't have time to namby pamby about.
Available now at the robotics division of the good folks at Ford...
I think the Janpanese robots technology is advanced.
I'm just curious how fast these robots can work.
God bless Janpan and my sister.
My sister has sent me a 3ds and acekard 2i before the earthquake
From parent's link:
These machines and control systems, using wireless local area networks and global positioning systems, were developed by the Unmanned Construction System Association in Tokyo, a consortium of 15 construction and related companies.
As such unmanned machines can be used in places too dangerous for workers, they have been used at more than 100 sites including restoration work at the Mt. Fugen volcano in Nagasaki Prefecture, which erupted with large pyroclastic flows in 1991, and Hokkaido's Mt. Usu, where a volcanic eruption occurred in 2000.
Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
And will use precisely for what you are proposing
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T110330005766.htm
Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
Since it's not likely that we have robotics-related technology that the Japanese don't already have, this is an obvious prelude to the Robot Rebellion that all those science fiction stories warned us about! ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAEfJ5K51LU