Samsung Plants Keyloggers On Laptops

Saint Aardvark writes "Mohammed Hassan writes in Network World that he found a keylogger program installed on his brand-new laptop — not once, but twice. After initial denials, Samsung has admitted they did this, saying it was to 'monitor the performance of the machine and to find out how it is being used.' As Hassan says, 'In other words, Samsung wanted to gather usage data without obtaining consent from laptop owners.' Three PR officers from Samsung have so far refused comment."

Comments

WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Worst idea since Sony's rootkit. They should be prosecuted over crap like this.

Re:WTF?

[FlatEric521]

They should be prosecuted over crap like this.

They will be. Sony got hit with tons of lawsuits, and they weren't using software that could steal your password. This just took corporate big brother behavior to a whole new level of invasive.

Re:WTF?

[spun]

Worse than Sony's rootkit. Both programs attempt to do something to your property without your consent, but only this one also takes the opportunity to spy on you. They won't be prosecuted, though. At the very worst, some sacrificial lamb from marketing will be fired. American corporate CEOs are above the law.

Re:WTF?

[Missing.Matter]

Samsung's CEO is Korean. Samsung is Korean company, you know.

Re:WTF?

[Just because I'm an]

I often wondered whether as with food where there is a legal requirement to list the ingredients there should be a similar requirement for PC vendors to list all the bloat/crap/ad-ware they include on their products. Of course people may still not know what they're in for but at least there's a chance you can stop yourself getting affected by a keylogger if you bothered to check it was there. Also if this was a legal requirement then a failure to disclose its presence would lead to a relatively strightforward penalty. I know most of the readers here would probably install the system themselves and likely not even Windows but for the bulk of the consumers it might be useful to at least know what's coming and be able to make a choice *before* the purchase is made.
-

I'd like to see Samsung get into big trouble over this because it is inherently wrong, at least that's my position, but I am less sure if they have broken any actual laws. Maybe some digital eavesdropping provisions that are only allowed to be done by governments have been breached but I can see Samsung weaselling out of that one. There's probably a disclaimer in 5point font 100 pages into the agreement that the buyer agrees to by opening the box.... of course that's wrong too. Oh where to start...

Re:WTF?

[lgw]

Sony paid over half a billion to settle their FTC lawsuit, and who knows how muchmore for other lawsuits. And that was the little stuff. Because Sony's rootkit made it onto many government-owned computers, the DoJ got pissed with them , and basically said "we're giving you the benefit of the doubt this once that you didn't intend to extract sensitive information from government computers, but keep in mind that penalties for doing so could include a ban on sales of all Sony products in America, and siezure of all Sony assets in America". You'd think that would get everyone's attention.

Re:WTF?

[lgw]

If you make a habit of punishing "the CEO", then "the CEO" will be a fall guy hired by whoever actually runs the company. Sony's rootkit got Sony threatened with ending the presence of Sony in America - while America may let corporations slide on many issues, actual espianage involving a foreign corporation and sensitive government data won't be ignored.

Samsung should be very thankful that the US Government in general avoids foreign-built computers out of a strange fear that there might be keyloggoers or similar installed on them at the factory: an idea that many /.ers once dismissed as crazy paranoia, back when Thinkpad shifted to Lenovo.

Re:WTF?

[Wyatt Earp]

Umm, yea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Madoff

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-30/ex-taylor-bean-official-ragland-to-enter-plea-in-1-9-billion-fraud-case.html

And this dude is in court right now

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raj_Rajaratnam

Theres alot of cases going on, have ended in pleas if you just google.

Re:WTF?

[erroneus]

Oh please. Take it from me -- I work for an "American Company" that is completely owned by a Japanese company and is completely run by employees of that same Japanese company. It's a lie. It's a huge lie. It's a lie on the scale of saying "santa claus is real." It's clearly and obviously not the truth.

Re:WTF?

[Coeurderoy]

There was a title for this in germany before WW1 it was called the
- Sitz DIrector (or Redactor for a news paper) Sitting Director
They has also the "früshtuck director" Breakfast Director

THe first one is the one supposed to go to jail in case of problems, and the second one is usually an aristocrat with a nice title he takes the VIP to breakfast and other "meetings", so the real directors do not need to loose time...

But somehow the IRS equivalent tends to think that whoum ever is making the most money in the company is the one that should go to jail....
(not that it happens very often unfortunatelly)...

So basically you should investigate the money trail and this gives you the "effective CEO" and that person should be the one sued...

About the security of foreing built computers this is b**t ALL computers a build by an handfull of ODM in china, if the US government is not basically trashing the preinstalled software of any sensitive machine to install their own their clueless...

And since they know how easy it was for them to stop various categories of foreing computers they cannot really ignore this...

So buying US computer is purelly lobbying and nationalism...

Re:WTF?

[lgw]

That bit of German history is very cool, thaks.

If the final assembly and sale of a laptop is done in the US by a US company, then the government can hold the company responsible for making sure there are no rootkits, in software, firmware, or BIOS. And that is one case in which not just the CEO, but any engineer knowingly involved in espianage, would go to jail for a very long time. They can't hold a foreign company similarly responsible (though they could ban the company from America and sieze all its American assets, which sounds to me like enough of a threat).

Re:WTF?

[number11]

If you make a habit of punishing "the CEO", then "the CEO" will be a fall guy hired by whoever actually runs the company.

True. What needs to be done is, find the corporation guilty, and give it 30 days. Now, 30 days in the slammer is only a slap on the wrist, as punishments go. And of course, you can't actually put the corporation in the local jail, but you can put it under "house arrest". Send the marshalls around to padlock their premises, and freeze their bank accounts for 30 days.

The economic consequences to the corporation would be vastly greater than any fine that could be levied. But nobody worries about other criminals who won't be able to meet their financial commitments if they do a stretch in the workhouse, so why should we worry about that when it's a corporate "person"?

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Draconian solutions remind everyone of their personal responsibility. Rest assured that if investing in corporations that break the law came with actual monetary costs, pretty soon people would be avoiding the stocks of those corporations like the plague. And nothing of value would be lost.

Re:WTF?

[number11]

How many innocent investors and employees are you willing to punish for the malicious actions of a few?

They don't get "punished". Criminal behavior often hurts innocent bystanders, are you saying that somebody with a spouse and three kids should be exempt from jail because to jail them would hurt their dependents? Hell, the investors will be hurt if the corporation makes a marketing blunder, why not if the corporation commits a crime? Yes, it's unfortunate. Maybe we should give the investors and employees standing to sue the corporation for any damages they suffer.

What if the company provides a vital service to its customers?

What if I provide a vital service to my customers? Does that mean I should be exempt from jail?

Re:WTF?

[bill_mcgonigle]

These are good arguments for why big corporations are unmanageable. Too big to fail, too big to punish, too big to hold accountable.

Perhaps we should stop allowing the the government to protect these giant corporations.

Re:WTF?

[Pharmboy]

That isn't a bad thing. It means the company will have trouble attracting quality talent unless it develops a system and policy to NOT do things like install root kits on computers. If you work for a company that does bad things, and you pay a price, you might want to go work somewhere else, or risk paying that price.

Is it "fair" to all the low level employees? Maybe not, but it will be effective in protecting the general public, which means it is worth the price, since it creates an incentive for companies to NOT be asshats and install root kits on devices.

What is fair is that companies (and shareholders) pay a price for breaking the law. This is the only way you can pressure stockholders and employees to pressure their management to do business in a fair and honest way, by having a "price" for not doing so.

Re:WTF?

[icebraining]

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html

Re:WTF?

[Anubis IV]

Wow. [citation needed] much? Let's go down the list, shall we?

1) Not only can I find no evidence of a $500M figure ever having existed before your comment, but if they had made a settlement for a half billion dollars, Sony wouldn't exist today. Their operating income last year was just $342M (source). Fat chance that Sony could survive a $500M settlement hit. By all indications (i.e. because it's not mentioned in their annual filings from that year and there are no followup stories to be found), this did not impact their bottom line in any sort of meaningful way.

2) As for what the settlement actually was, they paid up to $150-175 per customer that damaged their PC in an attempt to remove the rootkit (see here), plus $5.75M in settlements to various states (source). That's it. It probably cost them less than $10M to settle the whole thing.

3) For a quick example of a company that can take a hit like the one you talked about, we all remember the Microsoft EU antitrust case from a few years back, right? The one regarding media players, where they were fined roughly $600M, and had followup fines of roughly $250M and $1.44B, all of which were extensively covered in the news since they were, at the time, the largest fines ever handed down by the EU (more info). But Microsoft was able to absorb the hit. Of course, they could do that since their operating income last year was about $24B (source), which is roughly 70x that of Sony's.

4) As for your DOJ claims, I can't find anything about government computers being infected (though I wouldn't doubt it) or the DOJ being involved at all. In fact, they never got involved, despite the public outcry and requests that a criminal investigation be launched.

Aside from government computers getting infected, is anything you said true, or are you just routinely off by a few orders of magnitude when quoting figures, as well as prone to making up stories that have little basis in fact?

Re:Not once, but twice

[desdinova 216]

What?

Boycott

[Lead Butthead]

Let them know their behavior isn't appropriate. Don't buy their product, and let everyone you know why you don't recommend buying their product.

Re:Not once, but twice

[Anonymous Coward]

I think he's trying to ask for more Peyote.

Free Disaster Recovery

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a longer comment, but my machine crashed before I was able to submit. Just read it back at http://logger.samsung.com/mhassan/20110330log.txt

Re:Without obtaining consent?

[v1]

They can put anything they darn well please into the EULA, it doesn't guarantee it to be binding or legally enforceable.

They could sneak a line in somewhere in the middle of page 28 of 45 that says by using this software you're required to send them a check for $500. It would be very hard to enforce.

The practice of installing hidden software like that already has been condemned by the FTC. (from TFA: In the words of the of former FTC chairman Deborah Platt Majoras, "Installations of secret software that create security risks are intrusive and unlawful." (FTC, 2007).) So they're probably going to get hammered on this. And rightfully so.

Usually when their legal department refuses to reply when you're requesting comments before someone goes public, it's because they're busy batoning down the hatches and polishing up their resumes.

Stop it

[MrEricSir]

If you don't get outraged when outrageous stuff happens, then don't be surprised when more outrageous things happen. It's your own damn fault for not standing up for what's right.

Re:Stop it

[CrazyDuke]

...not to claim him, you, or myself more right or righteous. But, I often find when I stand up for the rights of myself and others, I usually end up standing alone. ...with a few shoe prints and knife blades in my backside for good measure.

Did you ever get the feeling that the reason the things in life that suck are allowed to continue is because so many people want it that way?

Only one case?

[demonbug]

A quick search didn't turn up any other reports of this besides discussion pointing back to the linked Network World article. Considering it seems very easy to detect (an SL folder in the main windows directory, accompanied by an automatic uninstall program?) it seems like people wouldn't have any trouble finding it if it is there. Anyone have any confirmation? Anyone besides Mr. Hassan finding this on their new Samsung?

Re:Only one case?

[echucker]

Some of the comments on the article reach the same conclusion. One even suggests it was someone at the store where they were purchased that installed the logger. Problem is, Samsung's tech support guy already admitted to it.

Re:Only one case?

[cobrausn]

I was actually wondering the same thing myself. The article links to another discussion where a user's root kit scan caused a 'total freeze' on a samsung netbook, but this seems like something that needs verification before we grab the torches and pitchforks.

And we do this how?

[jeko]

How do you recommend we install a clean copy of Windows, short of buying your own copy for $189.00? PC manufacturers don't even include a "recovery disk" any more, let alone a copy of the OS you just bought and paid for. Not that I disagree with you at all, but the average consumer isn't going to buy their PC for $500-1200, and then cough up $200 for a clean copy of the OS, and then another couple hundred to find someone to wipe and install it for them.

Re:And we do this how?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can get iso's of Windows on the net

Oh yeah, that's a great way to avoid keyloggers.

Re:And we do this how?

[SCPRedMage]

He didn't say download it from a "warez" site; you can download it from Microsoft's own servers.

Re:Not once, but twice

[Anonymous Coward]

He's saying this is this is lame. the real shiza is in the chip.

Samsung and Sprint do this with Android phones too

[chrisj_0]

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11763089&postcount=3

Re:Oh say it isn't so...

[node 3]

"Meh, corruption isn't news, stfu" == "give me more corruption", in the end.

If you don't get upset over these sort of things, you just invite more. Sure, making a fuss won't necessarily stop it from happening again, but remaining silent certainly won't.

Extremely Sceptical

[pmc]

OK - we have a keylogger that is plainly visible in the windows directory on his machine and.... that's it. Where is the rest of the evidence? It phones home - I presume he has wireshark traces in the acticle with IP addresses that are owned by Samsung.... Nope. Any network traces showing the activity? .... Nope. Naturally he bought another laptop and, without attaching it to any network, discovered the same keylogger.... Nope. Now he has announced this lots of people have looked at their Samsung laptops and found the keylogger... Nope.

But wait - he has the admission of the company itself! Well, actually, a junior helpdesk driod who probably had no idea what he was actually talking about and was just agreeing with him to get him off the phone. Because the alternative is that every junior helpdesk droid in Samsung knows about the highly illegal secret keylogger that is install on every laptop, but none of them thought "I'm tired of being a helpdesk droid, I think a class action suit is a better way of making a living".

There is also nonsense statements - "the keylogger is completely undetectable": Really? Apart from the c:/windows/SL directory, the entries in the registry and everything else that will make any sensible AV product go beserk that is.

Re:Extremely Sceptical

[John Saffran]

Agree with your scepticism .. While the author seems to have good security qualifications, they're mostly non-technical or managerial level and the articles are awfully devoid of details and I'm concerned that he starts with attempts to equate his accusations with the Sony incident before even providing his evidence .. it sounds like he's experiencing confirmation bias.

If this is part of the standard install it should be easy to duplicate and with the publicity this is sure to generate it's likely to be attempted.. personally I'll wait for a technical person to comment on this and more importantly provide the details rather than "After an in-depth analysis of the laptop, my conclusion was that this software was installed by the manufacturer, Samsung" (that's not good enough imho).

Monitor performance?

[parlancex]

Installing a keylogger that also does screen captures to "monitor the performance" of their laptops would be like a homebuilder installing secret video cameras all over your house that relay the pictures back to him telling you he needs to "monitor the performance" of the house.

Re:Not once, but twice

[hairyfeet]

Wow ACs as far as the eye can see...does nobody have an account besides me anymore? While I'm not the crazy OP I'd say a good target would be GPUs, which now support running more generalized code thanks to Streams and CUDA, and while I can't say about CUDA since I haven't bought or sold Nvidia in awhile I know ATI installs the Streams SDK and support OOTB with the latest GPUs.

Now considering the amount of horsepower and RAM built into the new GPUs I'd say that one is just waiting for a blackhat to exploit, oh and the fact nearly every X86-64 CPU now supports hardware VM acceleration, which if IIRC there has already been a demonstration called blue pill that showed that code hooking into the hardware VM was undetected by the OS.

So while the OP does sound a "little off" I'd say...yeah, with all the crazy amounts of power the average machine has in all the support chips hardware nastiness is doable. And that of course don't count rogue governments, like say if China decided to plant a backdoor at the router factory for instance. How many of your average folks have ANY idea what the hell their router is doing? As long as they can hook to the net they're happy. So I'd say it is more a matter of when than if it will happen, and if someone cooks up a good GPU nasty I could see it spreading like a Code Red all over the damned place.

it's all a lie.

[herojig]

See http://www.samsungtomorrow.com/1071, from RTFA link.

Utter bullshit

[igorthefiend]

False positive from a rarely used AV package - detects the same thing in an empty folder on a clean machine.
http://www.f-secure.com/weblog/archives/00002133.html