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Afghanistan Called First "Robotic War"
retroworks writes "Fareed Zakaria (Editor of Time, CNN GPS) writes that one in 50 USA combatants in Afghanistan is now a robot. There are more fighting robots than elevators in the country. Article has links to film of robots in action, allusions to Terminator films."
I know the marines aren't known for their intelligence, but calling them drones or robots, I think that's a little harsh...
So what exactly does the X-47B have to do with Afghanistan? After all these years of conflict, CNN still does not understand the basics of the US Military.
"There are more fighting robots than elevators in the country."
That's the metric we're using? So all i need to do to have my own robot war is build a single robot, and find a country with no elevators for it to attack?
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...who does not think that the USA is an evil empire, and take consolation only in knowing that it is also a dying empire?
Get the hell out of the Middle East, USA. Stop killing people. Sort out your shit at home for your own sake.
That's an interesting comment considering the Taliban in Afghanistan dictates half the population should be treated as property (women) and tramples on the rights of the Afghanis to the greatest degree of any society on the planet.
I would say to you - who doesn't think the Taliban is an evil empire and take consolation only in knowing it is also a dying political movement? Get the hell out of the lives of your citizens, stop sending terrorists across the globe to kill innocents, stop killing your own citizens for minor infractions of your "laws". Go read your Koran in peace.
I moved from the UK to Canada a few years ago, and yeah I agree. Being in proximity to them is irritating, but having to watch their stupid antics and culture spill onto TV is just downright offensive. Each time I watch another Chevrolet ad with the stupid moving 3D text proclaiming that their car has won x consumer award (apparently they all have) a part of me dies. My wife has regular contact with Americans almost every day and the ones that come across the border have an air of arrogance around them which is undeniable. A recurring favourite is "why did you give me Canadian change? I'm American, I want American money!". Thankfully the culture of NOW NOW NOW ME ME ME isn't quite so prevalent in the more civilized North. Having said that, "Hey I'm British too! My grandparents came over in the 1920s, do you know my friend Bob? He lives in London" is beginning to wear a little thin. Good snowboarding though.
tools have always been used in war. when we have autonomous decision making mechanisms engaging enemies, then we can talk about robotic warfare. otherwise, the bar is being set too low for what constitutes robotic warfare
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Afghanistan seems like kind of a low bar for the "elevators to combat robots" metric, since it has been a mixture of tribal infighting and superpower proxy wars at least since the British showed up(and had a lousy time... and then the Russians showed up, and had a lousy time... and the Americans showed up...); but it is, nevertheless, something of a dramatic shift.
What I'm not looking forward to is what will happen when(if ever) the demand for military combat robots slackens a bit and the producers thereof start seriously targeting the home market. Through a combination of military contractors trying to avoid being vulnerable to having only a single customer and direct transfers of military hardware from the DoD(you may throw an SSL warning if your browser doesn't trust DoD certs) military hardware generally has a way of coming home. Even random sheriffs are burnishing their toys collection(it's a wayback machine link because, for reasons that are completely inexplicable, the broader response to the 'The Peacemaker' was perhaps less favorable than anticipated...) I know, from observing one of their training exercises, that the supply of m16s maintained by the police force in the unbelievably boring and low crime bedroom community where I work is much higher than I would have expected.
This suggests that it is only a matter of time before we can expect to see surplussed predators and such 'protecting and serving' here at home.
the progenitors of the biggest genocides in human history(who have yet to apologize for any of them btw),
I'm sorry for every time I have contributed to this country which still does some awful things to its own people and to foreigners. I very much try to be productive while minimising the support I give to my government and businesses which act on its behalf. I'm too young to have been involved in some of the popular[tm] genocides you're probably thinking of ("biggest" is an ill-defined and unhelpful term), so I am not sure it has any meaning for me to apologise for them.
Just to clear things up: it's wrong when the British/French/Spanish/Dutch/etc. empire did it, and it's wrong now the American Empire's doing it.
The difference is that Europe has learnt some (not enough - and always dangerously close to forgetting it) humility while the US is still playing catchup. This is as you'd expect: Europe's had quite a few centuries' head start and two recent world wars to shake us up.
Are you arguing that the US is in Afghanistan out of love for oppressed Afghan women or something?
Bump. War needs to stay personal. My other favorite quote on war by Mr. Einstein "I don't know how man will fight World War III, but I do know how they will fight World War IV; with sticks and stones."
Are you arguing that the US is in Afghanistan for oil?
Not sure what history you're talking about, but the history of mankind has repeatedly shown that you can indeed wade into another culture and change it in a (historically speaking) short amount of time; controlling the change is difficult, but instigating change is fairly straightforward - you need only kill the right people. The US has directly or indirectly installed several of the world's governments. Are you under the impression that this did not change those cultures? If you trace the US's behavior back to the old European empires, whose behavior was not entirely dissimilar (though more overt in both practice and purpose,) then most of the world has experienced a cultural shift due to invasion, either military or economic, just in the past few hundred years. This doesn't even scratch the surface; the European empires themselves were following the example of Rome, which could itself look to Macedonia, which had an example in Persia... it's been happening at least since recorded history began, and the fact that most of those cultures no longer exist should be proof enough of the possibility. Even if you restrict this to very fast cultural shifts (say, within a single lifetime,) examples abound and should be easy to find should you care to look.
Yet me just point out that countries have powers and constraints not rights
Quite. Yet the US acts as if it considers itself to have some right.
What makes you think the previous poster was being a hypocrite or coward?
Because, in traditional apologetic fallacy, he responds to a criticism of an oppressor with a criticism about a subset of the targets of oppression.
I wonder why you thought it would go away with the British empire when there were perhaps a hundred or so other countries practicing it at the time.
The setting of the British empire coincided with the start of an information age and a generally highly educated population (by contrast with earlier centuries). I was dreaming that this would have made it harder to use a lie to justify one's behaviour - so America would just say "we're doing this for profit" or whatever.
I find it a wee bit hypocritical to wring one's hands over the US's role as "world policeman," while ignoring that there is some need for a world policeman and the absence of anyone better to fill the role.
You may need to check the definition of "hypocrisy". Even if I thought there was a need for a world policeman - which I don't - it wouldn't make me hypocritical to state that the US shouldn't be claiming that it's in Afghanistan for humanitarian reasons.
You think the US is in Afghanistan for profit? Do you have any idea how much that costs America?
In public funds, a lot. But private industry is making a killing. Literally and figuratively.
It's on America's tortured brow, That Mickey Mouse has grown up a cow
That's some of the most disconnected babbling I've ever seen. We arrest people here for spousal abuse. In the middle east crowds of people will stone a woman to death for adultery. If you cannot see the distinction you are completel disconnected from reality.
And to speak to your other completely unrelated point, everyone in the US has the CHANCE to succeed, nothing is guaranteed, and the privileged and wealthy sure have a better shot at it than the poor.
The US is in Afghanistan for the plunder.. be it oil, pipes, women, whatever. It's no different than one gang of chimpanzees attacking another. The flowery language and 'morality' is pure BS
If there was anything to plunder in Afghanistan, this might actually be a valid argument.... but there's not, and pretty much never has been, which is why most invaders eventually give up.
Have you ever been to Afghanistan?
The only thing people there are plundering is American Tax dollars. Afghanis are collateral damage.
If there was anything to plunder in Afghanistan, this might actually be a valid argument
There's a trillion in resources, apparently 'found' after the invasion.
But more importantly, Afghanistan is the key strategic jewel in the New Great Game shaped around oil politics.
It's on America's tortured brow, That Mickey Mouse has grown up a cow
Oh FFS. I just accidentally deleted a very detailed essay in response, but I still want it said so here is the abridged version:
The US did not change Japan insofar as introducing much that was extrinsic, they simply promoted the aspect of Japanese culture they preferred. Japan had been at war with itself culturally for centuries, and could be metaphorically represented by Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Sen no Rikyu. The former was a ruthless bloodthirsty tyrant willing to use bushido as the means to put the world under his feet. The latter was a serene, pacifistic and wise aesthete who wanted nothing more than enjoy the subtleties of life. On the eve of the Imjin War (almost three centuries before WW2) Toyotomi Hideyoshi ordered Sen no Rikyu to commit suicide for (what several historians believe was) his insolence in failing to support the imminent conflict. For the next several centuries, the warrior-oriented mode of Japanese culture and identity would be dominant through the end of the Second World War. (The internal cultural conflict even went so far as the outright persecution of Japanese Buddhists/pacifists.)
Then, due to both the rapid demographic shift caused by so many bushido-bound warriors dieing in the war as well as the pressures exerted by the American occupation, the cultural pendulum swung the opposite direction. The Americans were smart enough not to try to change the Japanese into something non-Japanese, that would never have worked, instead they picked the most useful (to their purpose) aspect of Japanese culture and essentially channeled the Japanese into themselves. A very, very wise and effective strategy. The demographics are striking, the Soka Gakkai sect of Buddhism (which was the only sect in Japan to staunchly oppose militarism) saw an increase in membership of 2500% in less than a decade. A massive and rapid cultural shift indeed, but not inside out, rather one side to another internally.
I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
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Oh, how appropriate your comics always are, Randall...
"Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded." -Archbishop Fulton Sheen
This entire post is a wonderful fantasy that is completely proven false by nearly all of the actual events of World War 2. The Rape of Nanking by itself destroys any notion that their culture had "accountability to yourself for your actions." If you weren't Japanese, you weren't
This paragraph accurately portrays the Japanese at the start of WWII.
Read some actual history. What you described isn't even close to an accurate portrayal of mid 20th century Japan.
This sentence no verb.
Holy hell are you ignorant of history. The US ran an occupational government in Japan for seven years. And basically helped them draft their constitution at gunpoint. Democracy in Japan was most assuredly not a natural occurrence.
I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
Thanks for all the dead relatives, violence and instability? If people really want to get rid of a dictator they will do it themselves, thank you very much. (See Egypt and Tunisia) All that international community needs to do is to end dealing with these dictators and give revolting population some moral support. Democracy comes from the people, not from the barrel of a gun. Military invasion and occupation is the worst you can do.
Almost any dictator is better than hundreds of thousands of dead people (mostly civilians) and chaos continuing to this day that resulted from the US invasion.
The choice is either give in or use terrorism to convince the other country not to send them.
This isn't Iraq you know. It's Afghanistan. We wouldn't be there if they hadn't opted to support a terrorist group that attacked our country.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Look up "Afghanistan pipeline" and you'll see what we're doing there. We are securing the route for a pair of pipelines, one oil the other natural gas, so the corps will have a way to route it through to India and the sea. pipelines are a hell of a lot cheaper for the corps, and less likely to get jacked, so what if some Americans die for it right?
Anyone who thinks we're there to fight some "war on terror" might want to read or watch something besides the MSM once in a while. As in every single fight since the end of WWII we are in there for "strategic" (read corporate) interests, nothing more.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
This whole warrior-philosopher meme crops up a lot. Remember the Knights of the Round Table, and English Chivalry?
Here's how it works.Peasants just have a hovel, a plough, and a mule if they are lucky. They work 9 to 9, then go to bed because they can't afford a candle to read by. Only the upper class can reasonably afford the lastest military hardware (be it a tank, plate mail, or a katana and lacquered armour). They can also afford books, gardens, and servant-girls to ... shall we say ... woo.
Besides, only the upper class is allowed weapons. Anyone else is a bandit, or rebel.
So all the philosophers and warriors come from the same social circle. The philosophers need to learn to duel, so that they can defend their honor if their philosophy causes some kind of offense. The warriors learn philosophy, to help them woo the maids (or butlers). Both of these arts are seen as "gentlemanly", because otherwise said culture would be a stagnent backwater unable to innovate, or have it's ass handed to it the next time its neighbour decided to test its boundaries.
Lots of countries have culture. They all bitch and moan about how its been lost, but that's only because they just remember the good bits.
My taxes have not gone up during the war, so it's not costing me anything extra.
Even with the deficit, the way the American Congress operates, without the war expenditures they would have found something else to sink money into that'd cause the deficit.
The occupational government in Japan was focused on governance - not on creating a state and the necessary infrastructure and fighting an insurgency.
This is the exact opposite of historical facts. The new Japanese constitution was drafted primarily by US Army lawyers Milo Rowell and Courtney Whitney. The Japanese constitution as passed during the occupation has never been amended.
Further while there might not have been an insurgency analogous to that in Afghanistan or Iraq, if you think the transition was some simple void to be filled, I have to go so far as to say you must be stupid as well as ignorant. Many, many forces were at work against the interests of the US occupation, including but not limited to the zaibatsu, the military and police infrastructure (see The Police In Occupation Japan: Control, Corruption and Resistance to Reform by Christopher Aldous), the yakuza, the Soviets and Japanese communists, etc. Just because the insurgency wasn't blowing shit up did not mean there wasn't one.
I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
And what made you think that everyone else is as disgusting as your government? Your government's own propaganda?
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
The US would have to pick an enemy who can afford robots in the first place. Bombing backward civilisations is so much more fun, though.
Radically low-tech enemies are actually a huge mess to deal with. There is sort of a bell-shaped-curve if you consider the opponent's level of technological power to be the X axis, and the ease of dealing with them to be the Y:
On the extreme right of the curve, you have technologically superior enemies. You can't win, you can only hope to make a nuisance of yourself and hope that their tolerance for casualties is several orders of magnitude lower than yours. On the extreme left of the curve, you have radically technologically inferior enemies. They can still inflict casualties, because booby traps and small arms absolutely saturate the world market, and will kill your fancy superior forces just fine; but they tend to have relatively few good targets. No big command and control structures or vital infrastructure facilities or seats of government that you can just raise a flag over and expect the existing governmental apparatus to fall into line behind(because there often isn't one, or it is a fragmented mess eve when you aren't there).
The best ones are right in the middle: Developed enough to have centralized infrastructure, governmental and other organizational systems that can be decapitated and then reused, and wealthy enough that they've been trying to build up conventional armored forces and aircraft and the like, rather than irregular guerrillas. Poor enough, on the other hand, that all their armor and aircraft are substantially inferior to yours, and their regular troops are questionably trained conscripts with a very limited interest in getting slaughtered. Compared to the prospect of driving around in circles, eating IEDs, while looking for something worth capturing, blowing your way through a force of hopelessly inferior eastern-bloc rustboxes on your way to the capital is downright idyllic...
humans are not implements, moron
I don't know, there are some real tools out there...
Bow-ties are cool.