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Columbia University Ending the Kermit Project

Posted by Unknown on from the how-will-ms-piggy-transfer-files-now dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Columbia University has announced that the Kermit Project will be ended in July 2011, after more than 30 years in existence. Open Kermit (C-Kermit) will remain available, but without any support or ongoing development. Kermit-95, which cannot be open-sourced, will remain available for license purchases but without support or maintenance."

20 of 146 comments (clear)

  1. I guess they ran out of money? by stillnotelf · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's not easy needing green...

  2. heh by sentientbeing · · Score: 4, Funny

    Poor Kermit. He was never the same after he got laid off from that theater group. He didnt like the managment choices. Said it was a puppet regime.

    --

    ------
    beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his mind he dreams himself your master
  3. Poor Miss Piggy by StuartHankins · · Score: 3, Funny

    Condolences to Miss Piggy. I bet she will be devastated by the news.

    1. Re:Poor Miss Piggy by meta+coder · · Score: 3, Funny

      but now she's available

  4. Aw. by djdanlib · · Score: 3, Funny

    Sad news indeed. Kermit has finally croaked.

  5. Re:somewhat sad... by Marillion · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I feel as if a movie star I hadn't watched in forever has just passed away. "I didn't know he was still alive?"

    --
    This is a boring sig
  6. Re:That's a shame, but figured it'd already happen by LWATCDR · · Score: 2

    Kermit was and may still be useful when your connection is terrible. I am willing to bet that today it is used more than zmodem or xmodem.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  7. Nostalgia. by Seumas · · Score: 5, Interesting

    More than Duke Nukem or anything else I've heard referenced recently, none have blasted me back to my youth more than hearing the words "kermit" and "zmodem". Right around the same time that you could go down to the local Hacker Shack (later renamed, due to conflicts with Radio Shack) and thumb through thousands of 5.25" floppies organized like mini-albums and you'd pay a buck just for a floppy with a looping black and white video you could watch on your grainy CGA.

    God damn, I miss those days. I'm glad the internet is widespread and aiding tens of millions of people in their life on a daily basis, but there was something delightful about being part of a tiny group of weirdos connecting to each other with ATA commands and some guy's hobby board.

    1. Re:Nostalgia. by dave562 · · Score: 2

      but there was something delightful about being part of a tiny group of weirdos connecting to each other with ATA commands and some guy's hobby board.

      There sure was. At one point it was a matter of pride for me to be able to type faster than the modem buffer could handle.

    2. Re:Nostalgia. by adolf · · Score: 2

      I used to be able to tell which user was about to sign into my board by listening to the connect tones from the modem.

      The v.32bis Supra I had back then could be tweaked pretty severely. I remember setting the DTMF tone and inter-digit durations to be so short that they were just barely recognized by Ameritech's switch, with busy detection so short that it would trigger after just a few milliseconds. Redial delay was just long enough to reset the switch, and then it'd rinse and repeat until something answered.

      It was so perfectly fast that, several times, I was able to catch another sysop trying to call out from his own modem: In the short space between their own redial attempts, I'd duck right in. Their modem would pick up the line to dial out, before it recognized that the line was already ringing.

      I'd get a moment of silence on my end instead of a blip of a busy signal, which was instantly recognizable due to the change in cadence. A quick ATX3DT later, and they'd be connected to my Telemate session instead of whoever they thought they were calling.

      I'd then dump the hijacked connection into my BBS's login screen. Much confusion ensued on their part.

      I had more fun with computers back then. Nowadays, my quad-core desktop mostly sits idle unless I'm reading Slashdot, and I'm far less impressed with the speed of my 12Mbps VDSL circuit today than I was with v.32bis back in the day...

      --
      Kid-proof tablet..
    3. Re:Nostalgia. by erice · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I had more fun with computers back then. Nowadays, my quad-core desktop mostly sits idle unless I'm reading Slashdot, and I'm far less impressed with the speed of my 12Mbps VDSL circuit today than I was with v.32bis back in the day...

      In those days, getting online was an adventure. There was gold out there. You just had the figure out the right mix of technical and social engineering to get to it. I wrote layers of terminal and REXX scripts to automate the retrieval of freeware and Usenet articles and work around connection destroying misfeatures in the 7171 protocol converters. I used Kermit because nothing else could transfer through 7E1, even if it were available for EBCDIC machines. I wrote a DOS based terminal server to run on a friendly staff member's PC so I could get the sort of clean text interface Unix and VMS people took for granted.

      Nowadays, Internet connectivity is something that you buy and it mostly just works. It's a lot more useful but not nearly as much fun.

  8. The go anywhere protocol by KDN · · Score: 2

    Wow, in my college and post college days I used that protocol in so many places and so many ways I can't even begin to count. That was a very conservative protocol that was able to go through almost anything. One time I had it go from a portable computer over a modem connection to an Equinox data switch to an AT&T 3b5 Unix, to a cu back to the Equinox (to change the speed from 300 baud to 9600 baud) to an IBM 7171 protocol converter to an IBM 4361. And it could actually transfer files. Another time I had to stress test a DECNET terminal simulator on a Sun (the old version would fail in the middle of the day on the busiest of days) So I used kermit to connect to host1, then to host 2, back to host 1, back to host 2, I think something like 40 times. Then I did a file transfer through all the connections. It worked.

  9. "Open Source" before it was cool by jabberw0k · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Kermit was my first foray into the advantages of Open Source, even if it was not Free Software.

    The company where I worked in college (Digital Techniques Inc. who made a line of touchscreen computers in the early 80s) had an MS-DOS machine that ran on STD-Bus, non-PC compatible... and with the source-code from Columbia (on 9-track tape!) I was able to write a communication driver for the 2661 DUART (same as in the Zenith Z-100, and as compared to the IBM-PC's 8250 UART). Finally we could zap files up to the VAX at a blazing 19,200 baud! Never could iron out all the interrupt issues for even-higher speeds.

    A few years later when this Linux thing came along I said, Aha! ... thanks Kermit for being Open before Open was cool.

  10. About the statement of Kermit 95 by Bork · · Score: 2

    From the Columbia's web site
    "On or before June 30, 2011, there will be Open Source versions of C-Kermit, E-Kermit, and Kermit 95. "

    Unless the anonymous reader has some inside information...

  11. Re:Is anyone using kermit anymore? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Yes, it is used a lot in the embedded world. One of the few tools available to recover a bricked RS232-only based device. Used on things like the gumstix, beagleboard, and lots of other SBC like ARM based embedded devices. If you make/order custom versions or your own shipping product does not contain alternatives like MMC/SD card boot capabilities, c-kermit is one of the few things out there to allow you to boot, load code, and then go to console all from one tool on such devices. Saved my (and my employers) ass many times on bricked or buggy embedded devices.

  12. What could be Kermit's most interesting legacy by Coeurderoy · · Score: 3, Informative

    I miss Kermit like I miss my old Kreidler motobike, found memories but I'd probable wouldn't really like it if I would need it again...

    But what I would really appreciate from columbia would be a clear and detailled explanation of what parts or "kind of parts" of kermit-95 and why ? cannot be open sourced ?
    Are there pieces of code written by Open Source adverse copyright holders ?
    Or "lost coypright holders" that have rights but cannot be located
    Or legally "challenged" copyright holders (childs who are too young to "agree" to anything but are the sole heir of some copyrights ? for example ?)
    Backdoors mandated by some three letters authority that cannot be released under an open source licences :-)
    code that implement something patented and the patent holders do not authorise the inclusion in open source code ..
    Or contracts with former clients prohibiting "unfair compétition"...
    or, or, ....

    I know that the value of an Open Source Kermit-95 would be very law, it might be better on Windows than C-Kermit for some values of "better"...
    but it's unlikelly that any futur use would be better served with an update of K95 rather than a modificiation of CK.

    But the lesson on "freeing" code would be very interesting, and after all Columbia as a quite proheminent law school... so it would be interesting...

    1. Re:What could be Kermit's most interesting legacy by Coeurderoy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well that cannot be the real reason since as show on the C-Kermit site:
      Due to relaxations in USA export law, secure versions of C-Kermit are available in source-code form, supporting Kerberos IV, Kerberos V, SSL/TLS, and SRP. and from the C-Kermit man page it can also make SSH connections through your external SSH client application.

      So conceivably an open source Kermit-95 with just the SSH ripped out (if really necessary) could be made avaiable, if that would be all...

      Alternativelly a legitimate message could be: C-Kermit is better and allready BSD so it's better in the long run even if Kermit-95 has some adventage in dying old machines ... so we do not bother ..
      Or out contracts with Amazon, E-Academy, etc ... prohibits us...

      But "we can't", well why ? of course they have no obligation even no "moral" obligation after all they paid for the developpment and it helped lots of people...

      But on an other hand it is unlickely that they made any real revenue out of it even over 30 years, so as an historical and econonical case study it would be interesting to see what the motivations for the old licences where, and what the motivations for keeping K95 close are ...

  13. Re:Arrrgh... by blair1q · · Score: 2

    "Kermit" and "stinky" leads to some Miss Piggy jokes you really don't want to hear.

  14. Re:Is anyone using kermit anymore? by NotQuiteInsane · · Score: 2

    Depends if the box is completely bricked or "bootloader bricked".

    If you can't even get a bootloader prompt then JTAG is the only game in town. You use JTAG to flash a bootloader and erase the rest of the flash ROM so the bootloader drops into a command prompt instead of trying to boot a kernel. Once you have a working bootloader, you typically use XMODEM to transfer the kernel and rootfs binaries across. Alternatively you use Ethernet or some other high-speed interface (USB, anyone?)

    If you have a working bootloader, then you interrupt it on boot, drop to the command prompt and upload a new, (hopefully) working kernel and rootfs.

    JTAG is only really necessary if your bootloader is totally screwed.

  15. Made my Mom's career change possible by yogidog98 · · Score: 2
    I know this is going to sound sappy, but when I was around 12, my Mom went back to school to change careers from teaching to computer science. I don't know how she could have done it without a tool like Kermit, which allowed her do much of her coursework from home, around her family, instead of having to spend late nights in the school labs.

    Looking over my Mom's shoulder, Kermit gave me my first glimpse of email, my first experience with vi (her preferred email editor), and indirectly I guess, put me on the engineering career path to where I am today... Curse you Kermit!