The Dying DVR Box and Woz Wisdom

Lucas123 writes "At SNW in Santa Clara this past week, a diverse group of techies shared insights into their industries, such as the DVR market. TiVo's senior director of IT, Richard Rothschild, for instance, explained how those set-top boxes track everything you watch for advertising and marketing and then combine the information with supermarket membership card data to determine how effective ad campaigns are. Oh, and TiVo's planning to integrate its box with your flatscreen, so no more set-top device. And Steve Wozniak attacked the American education system, saying students should be graded on a single, long-term project rather than a short learning/testing cycle. 'In school, intelligence is a measurement,' he said. 'If you have the same answer as everyone else in math or science, you're intelligent.'"

Comments

I really like Woz but..

[LWATCDR]

I had no idea that he has a degree in education or did postgraduate studies in education or even home schooled his own children. Is this just as iffy as a Musical composer telling an engineer how to build a bridge?

Re:I really like Woz but..

[Anonymous Coward]

He might not have a degree in education or post grad in this field, but he has run a school and tutoring facilities for years out of his garage. I can only imagine this is a large garage. He also has a few charity orgs that are tasked with eduction...having served on the board of a charity like this, you quickly learn whats going on...often to a larger extent than those that are invested in their education because they want to appear right regardless of proof of being wrong -- where as the charities want to change something.

I have advanced degrees in psych with focuses on experiential learning and measurement (of learning / IQ / whatever). I can safely say I agree with his assessment. A lot of graduate programs focus on measuring overall knowledge through a final paper or otherwise...the rest is just bench marks along the way to show you if you understand the material and really only beneficial to the student. I've heard him talk about this stuff in the past, and I'd say he is exactly right...

Re:I really like Woz but..

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering how many parents basically fuck up their kids, never bother to take any interest in their school and then blame the teachers while subsequently trying to rob teachers of any authority in the classroom when their little monster acts like a shithead? Yes, parents in most cases DO know nothing.

Re:I really like Woz but..

[sentientbeing]

They have articles here too?

Re:I really like Woz but..

[Kemanorel]

I'm not quite sure why you used quotes on teacher, but, seeing as how I have a Bachelor's in Electronic Engineering and I am a teacher, I'd say I meet your request.

Personally I find my career in teaching to be far more enjoyable and emotionally rewarding than designing circuits ever was. Are there flaws in the U.S. educational system? Of course there are. Rather than piss and moan about it, why don't you actually get off your ass and do something about it? Try volunteering in a public school near you. See what the actual demands are from the other side of the desk. See what differences there are between a good teacher who gets students interested enough in material to get them to improve, often against competing forces that teachers have no control over, and a teacher who is just punching a clock. There are plenty of the latter, but you'd be surprised at how many of the former there really are... Or at least were before they caved to the pressure placed upon them by administrators, parents, and various levels of local, state, and federal government.

Until you are willing to do something about it, quit acting like an ass and work on opening your mind a bit.

Re:I really like Woz but..

[Altus]

To a large degree, we don't take teachers advice on teaching. I'm not even sure that most teachers would disagree with Woz. Most of the reason that classes are structured the way they are is because of regulations at the state and federal level. Teachers don't get as much leeway as you think they do.

Re:I really like Woz but..

[jejones]

"Rather than piss and moan about [the US educational system], why don't you actually get off your ass and do something about it?"

I do my best to vote for people who will get rid of the public schools' effective monopoly on K-12 education for all but the few; does that count?

Re:I really like Woz but..

[DurendalMac]

Your first topic is absurd as there is zero interaction and no single recorded lesson is good for all students. A good teacher isn't just good at talking to the class, he/she is good at evaluating the needs of each class and working with all students. Playing a recording is idiotic and would do jack shit. Students need a TEACHER who gives a damn, not a video of one.

Your second idea has been implemented a hundred thousand times over minus only Wikipedia. Students get projects, reports, etc on a huge variety of topics, sometimes any topic they want. Making this the only method of education is hideous as it's pretty damned dry getting your entire education from a website. You need some human interaction, discussion, and so much more.

Education and Woz...

[JMZero]

'In school, intelligence is a measurement,' he said. 'If you have the same answer as everyone else in math or science, you're intelligent.'"

Well.. not really. Schools don't measure intelligence, they measure compliance and effort. If you're intelligent and willing, it's easier to comply with "memorize this crap" and "be able to solve math problems in this form" - but grades are not intended to measure intelligence, nor are they good at doing so. Nor would it make sense. The feedback mechanism grading is requires something you can change - and that's why grades usually target things that all students are capable of and that are easy to evaluate: memorization, putting time into a report, etc..

At issue, he said, are rules that tell each student exactly what they should be studying and when.

Everyone knows there's more effective ways to teach, but it's also clear why teachers have structure: how else are you going to address the needs of 30 different students - many of whom don't want to be there - and keep them all doing something vaguely productive?

Re:Education and Woz...

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone knows there's more effective ways to teach, but it's also clear why teachers have structure: how else are you going to address the needs of 30 different students - many of whom don't want to be there - and keep them all doing something vaguely productive?

Good point. Also, Woz might have a skewed teaching perspective. Los Gatos, CA is a wealthy, insular Silicon Valley enclave (80% white, 10% Asian, small bits of "other"). So, what should we expect from the kids? High motivation, lots of parental support (not to mention intelligent parents), and plenty of money for the nice surburban schools. Let's see him try the same stuff in the middle of LA.

Beyond that, what's the point of our education system? Is it to provide an adequate (though not necessarily great) education for 10 million kids, or is to to provide a spectacular education for 500,000 kids and a crummy one for 9.5 million kids? They're both valid strategies, though Woz's comments seem to favor the latter.

How long a project?

[bryan1945]

In the article (yeah, I really read his part) Woz's says that projects can take up to years. He never expounded on how these long-term projects should take, or at what level he would like to implement them. From kindergarten to 5th project. 6th-9th? 10th-12th? K all the way through 12th? I like his premise, but then he goes off and says he developed the floppy disk for Apple in 2 weeks. Is that long term? Woz is a really smart guy and has done tons of good, but bring some clarity when you are declaring the need for changes. I personally agree with him that a, say, semester long (2 to 4 months) project should be able to teach a lot more than the memorize, test, & forget form of study. Longer than that and you are most likely getting into implementation phases.

My 2 bananas worth.

It's called a dissertation/thesis...

[theEd]

And Steve Wozniak attacked the American education system, saying students should be graded on a single, long-term project rather than a short learning/testing cycle.

Those of us who want to become scientists or mathematicians (like myself) do get "graded" on a single, long-term project (I have 200+ pages of evidence of that at home). The only problem with a single project for the WHOLE grade is that if by chance something goes wrong (bad reagent or protocol) or it didn't work like you expected (*sarcasm* because nothing ever goes wrong in science *sarcasm*) you would have to spend more time (months+++ ?) or the project might fail. If your a grad. student you make due and move on but, I think that would completely demotivate most high school students. Besides K-12 is the time/place to learn the basics, like the multiplication tables, the periodic table, language, writing, etc., with some small projects to augment book knowledge. I can guarantee that I would not have been successful in my graduate career if I didn't have the 16+ years of structured education and short testing cycles that Woz has an issue with. And if I was only graded on a single project as a young student I might have failed early on and did something else than science.