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Remembering the Apple I

harrymcc writes "This month marks the 35th anniversary of Apple--and the 35th anniversary of the Apple I, its first computer. It was a single-board computer that was unimaginably more rudimentary than any modern Mac — it didn't even come with a case and keyboard standard — but in its design, sales and marketing, we can see the beginnings of the Apple approach that continues to this day. I'm celebrating with a look at this significant machine."

153 comments

  1. ahh, the good ole days by Tumbleweed · · Score: 4, Informative

    When Apple hardware was open. Apple ][ computers had their wiring diagram on the inside of the lid (which required no screws to open!). 8 slots, baby, *eight*, to fill with whatever you wanted. No voiding the warranty by opening it up, etc. I later went Amiga and didn't look back until recently. I got a nice ROM 03 Apple //gs on eBay, and even got a nice TransWarp GS card for it. Hot stuff! :)

    Never was a fan of Macs. *shrug*

    1. Re:ahh, the good ole days by perpenso · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When Apple hardware was open. Apple ][ computers had their wiring diagram on the inside of the lid (which required no screws to open!). 8 slots, baby, *eight*, to fill with whatever you wanted. No voiding the warranty by opening it up, etc. I later went Amiga and didn't look back until recently. I got a nice ROM 03 Apple //gs on eBay, and even got a nice TransWarp GS card for it. Hot stuff! :) Never was a fan of Macs. *shrug*

      I've owned a few Macs over the years and some models had slots, easy opening cases, no warranty issues with 3rd party cards, etc. This is still true for towers.

      Other Macs are sealed boxes. Just like the laptop PCs that represent the majority of the computer marketplace. As a nerd I have an affinity for things I can tweak but I have to admit this represents a minority opinion and that sealed boxes make sense for typical users (cost reductions, simplified supply chain, etc).

    2. Re:ahh, the good ole days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had one of the first Apple ][s. There was no wiring diagram on the lid.

      The //gs was far, far removed from the Apple ][. You sir, are a poser.

    3. Re:ahh, the good ole days by mfnickster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've owned a few Macs over the years and some models had slots, easy opening cases, no warranty issues with 3rd party cards, etc.

      Yep, my first computer was a Power Mac 7500, with an outer case that slid off by pressing two buttons, and the power supply and drives tilted to the right to reveal the motherboard. Best case I ever worked with.

      Funny, though, those 'open' Macs only appeared after Jobs was gone!

      --
      "Slow down, Cowboy! It has been 3 years, 7 months and 26 days since you last successfully posted a comment."
    4. Re:ahh, the good ole days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Funny, though, those 'open' Macs only appeared after Jobs was gone!

      Yeah, and the NeXT didn't have any slots, nor did it use standard tech (TCP/IP, Postscript, ...) to interact with the world.

      Oh, wait...

    5. Re:ahh, the good ole days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      There was also the entire lines of PowerMac G3, G4s, G5s, and the current Mac Pros, that all have easy-open sides and standardized card slots.

      But y'know, I'm sure there's a conspiracy somewhere.

    6. Re:ahh, the good ole days by shmlco · · Score: 2

      There was, however, an electrical diagram in the red book....

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    7. Re:ahh, the good ole days by perpenso · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Funny, though, those 'open' Macs only appeared after Jobs was gone!

      The tower form factor Power Macs (G3 and up) and the Mac Pros will open, have slots, etc. Jobs seems just fine with the models targeting "professionals" to be designed to be worked on by end users. Jobs' pre-Mac baby, the Lisa (1983), had slots IIRC. The Lisa was also targeted towards "professionals".

    8. Re:ahh, the good ole days by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

      I had one of the first Apple ][s. There was no wiring diagram on the lid.

      It was on the inside lid of my Apple //e (first version, not second with the numeric keypad).

      The //gs was far, far removed from the Apple ][. You sir, are a poser.

      True, but it was very compatible with the 8-bit Apple 2s. When assembling my 8 and 16-bit computer collection over the last couple of years, I went for computers I didn't have back in the day, rather than the ones I did. So, no 8-bit Apple ][ or //s, and no Amiga 500. But I do now have an Apple //gs, Amiga 1000, Tandy Coco 3, Tandy 102, Commodore 64 and 64C. I haven't yet got any 8-bit Ataris, but that'll come once I have more space.

    9. Re:ahh, the good ole days by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Funny, though, those 'open' Macs only appeared after Jobs was gone!

      Easy to open, perhaps, but open in the sense that they are expandable where also during his "first aera" available.

      angel'o'sphere

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    10. Re:ahh, the good ole days by erice · · Score: 2

      Funny, though, those 'open' Macs only appeared after Jobs was gone!

      Funny? I'm have trouble finding citation but, as I recall, one of the points of friction between Jobs and Scully at the time of Job's departure was over whether to open up the Macintosh. Jobs was against it. Despite putting slots in the NeXT cubes, I think he still prefers Macs be closed. The first Macs to show the Jobs influence after his return to Apple were the iMacs. Closed again.

    11. Re:ahh, the good ole days by bedouin · · Score: 1

      Macs have always had interesting third party upgrades. When I retired my original 800mhz Quicksilver it had a dual 1.8ghz CPU in it and a number of other modifications.

      The upgrade market would let you keep many Macs going for 10 years with a minimal investment. Not sure how the Intel switch has affected that, though.

    12. Re:ahh, the good ole days by mwvdlee · · Score: 2

      (cost reductions).

      This is Apple we're talking about.

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    13. Re:ahh, the good ole days by perpenso · · Score: 2

      (cost reductions)

      This is Apple we're talking about.

      Cost reductions not price reductions. Costs are what Apple pays for components, assembly, shipping, etc. :-)

    14. Re:ahh, the good ole days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The first Macs to show the Jobs influence after his return to Apple were the iMacs. Closed again.

      Nonsense! the early iMacs all had PCI, and all iMacs have USB, which was a royalty-free standard from the start. As far as the machine being open in the opensource meaning of the word, no Macintosh has been.

    15. Re:ahh, the good ole days by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      I should have quoted more;

      make sense for typical users (cost reductions)

      Though I guess it may make sense in the sense that "We're consumers, it's only natural companies are screwing us".

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    16. Re:ahh, the good ole days by macs4all · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Apple ][ computers had their wiring diagram on the inside of the lid

      WTF are you smoking, and can I have some?

      Apple ][ computers NEVER had a schematic (or anything else) on the inside of the lid. The schematic was in the "Red Book"; but not on the lid.

      And I think I know from experience. Not only do I OWN an Apple 1; but the first Apple ][ I ever saw/programmed was s/n 0013 (!!!). It was part of the first production run. So old it didn't even have the "cooling slots" in the top!

      And subsequently, I sold Apple ][s for a couple of years, and they didn't have a schematic on the lid, either...

      I'm not sure what computer you are think of; but it is not an Apple ][.

    17. Re:ahh, the good ole days by georgesdev · · Score: 1

      oh yes!
      I remember on the Apple ][ you could copy the rom to ram memory, disassemble it, modify it and run it. We just had the standard software and documentation, no hacking tool, no forum of course, etc ....
      That machine was really open back then!

    18. Re:ahh, the good ole days by macs4all · · Score: 1

      It was on the inside lid of my Apple //e (first version, not second with the numeric keypad).

      Sorry, I worked in a H.S. computer lab with a PILE of Apple //e computers.

      Not ONE of them with a schematic on the lid.

    19. Re:ahh, the good ole days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny, though, those 'open' Macs only appeared after Jobs was gone!

      Funny? I'm have trouble finding citation but, as I recall, one of the points of friction between Jobs and Scully at the time of Job's departure was over whether to open up the Macintosh. Jobs was against it. Despite putting slots in the NeXT cubes, I think he still prefers Macs be closed. The first Macs to show the Jobs influence after his return to Apple were the iMacs. Closed again.

      Jobs put slots in NeXT because he wanted to sell them in the real world to educational institutions and such not just to rabid fanbois.

    20. Re:ahh, the good ole days by Spliffster · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Funny, though, those 'open' Macs only appeared after Jobs was gone!

      Funny? I'm have trouble finding citation but, as I recall, one of the points of friction between Jobs and Scully at the time of Job's departure was over whether to open up the Macintosh. Jobs was against it. Despite putting slots in the NeXT cubes, I think he still prefers Macs be closed. The first Macs to show the Jobs influence after his return to Apple were the iMacs. Closed again.

      Here is a nice story told by Andy Hertzfeld (The main software developer for the macintosh's os) which clearly states that jobs did not want to have any expansion slots in the macintosh (funny read):

      http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Diagnostic_Port.txt

    21. Re:ahh, the good ole days by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      Funny, though, those 'open' Macs only appeared after Jobs was gone!

      ISTR the pattern in the Scully years was pretty much the same as today - minimal internal expansion and screwed-tight cases for the low/middle-range desktop models c.f. clip-open access for the top-of-the-range (often tower) models with NuBus.

      The Centris and early PowerMacs were not remarkably easy to get into, and the only expansion was an optional Ethernet card.

      Also, remember that, to balance the lack of internal expansion, Apple have been pretty pro-active in pushing external expansion - first SCSI, then FireWire, then popularizing USB, now ThunderBolt...

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    22. Re:ahh, the good ole days by astrosmash · · Score: 1

      Good old days? There is far, far more technical information and tools available to developers today then there ever was for the Apple II, and today's machines are far more expandable using widely available cross-platform industry standard interfaces, from the smallest MacBook Air to the Mac Pro.

      --
      ENDUT! HOCH HECH!
    23. Re:ahh, the good ole days by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      As a nerd I have an affinity for things I can tweak but I have to admit this represents a minority opinion

      Don't disparage minority opinions. Very often, they're right.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    24. Re:ahh, the good ole days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Someone went as far as to stick a 170MB IDE drive on an Apple ][e... DIY guide in the link.

    25. Re:ahh, the good ole days by digitalaudiorock · · Score: 2

      Believe it or not, I'm still regularly using a Protools MixPlus studio built around a PowerMac 9600/350. It's been working flawlessly running the same OS 9.0.4 I installed when I built the studio 11 years ago. That computer is built like a tank, and yea, the case is like opening up luggage.

    26. Re:ahh, the good ole days by Moryath · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I remember my uncle's Mac. Looked like a giant tower of crap, piled 8 pieces high.

    27. Re:ahh, the good ole days by quacking+duck · · Score: 2

      The current iMac form factor was reasonably open until 2005, i.e. you could open it up and access the internals pretty easily. Starting in 2006 though, it became a nightmare to self-service, because you now had to get at things from the front, instead of from the back. Getting at the hard drive (it was fine, but bad capacitors rendered the system itself dead) required removing just about every damn component first, when it should be one of the easiest things to get at.

    28. Re:ahh, the good ole days by dzfoo · · Score: 2

      In Jobs' defense, he saw the personal computer in the same light as a toaster: an appliance for the masses, which the user need not know nor care how it works.

      The iMac fulfills this role beautifully. Users buy them, take them home, and just turn them on to use them.

      Regular people do not upgrade their toasters. They use them until they break, then buy a new one, plug it in, and make toast.

              -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    29. Re:ahh, the good ole days by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      Jobs wanted to sell Macs to people who didn't care about what went on on the inside. There's more money to be made selling to the masses than to the technogeek.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    30. Re:ahh, the good ole days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple customers are people who usually don't know much, if anything, about the technology inside the box; more significantly, they don't *want* to know, and don't care about it.

      This would be fine if only they didn't have a superiority complex which of course they can't back up, their only specific reason for a product's superiority is "it's shiny and its made by Apple".

      And anyone who dares even suggest there is a problem with any *current* Apple product is a hater. Strangely, Apple fans seem read very good at revisionist history and saying how the preceding product wasn't in fact very good but the new one is perfect and thus not to be criticised? Perhaps this is to justify their recent expenditure of a large chunk of cash (or contracting to pay the same to some mobile phone operator) on the latest shiniest gizmo.

    31. Re:ahh, the good ole days by mfnickster · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but the original Mac did not fulfill that role adequately, and the engineers knew it.

      128k was barely enough to run the OS and a single application - which was by design; multitasking was a hack added on with Switcher before Multifinder was even conceived.

      There was no way to add a hard drive to the 128k Mac, and it put you through hell when you had to copy a floppy. You had to swap it out about 50 times because there was not enough memory to buffer the whole thing in one step.

      If it weren't for Burrell Smith's sneaking in support for 512k, the first generation of Macs would have all ended up in landfills within a year of purchase! :)

      --
      "Slow down, Cowboy! It has been 3 years, 7 months and 26 days since you last successfully posted a comment."
    32. Re:ahh, the good ole days by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1

      I remember that the manual that came with the ][+, anyway, had a fold-out schematic, which I thought was neat.

    33. Re:ahh, the good ole days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My dad had an Apple ][ plus, and I remember distinctly that it had the schematics on the lid. Though that might be different for the earlier models.

    34. Re:ahh, the good ole days by CheerfulMacFanboy · · Score: 1

      Funny, though, those 'open' Macs only appeared after Jobs was gone!

      Even more funny, the idea od non-expandability was the main concept of the Macintosh before Jobs even heard of the project.

      http://www.fastcodesign.com/1663212/the-untold-story-of-how-my-dad-helped-invent-the-first-mac

      There were to be no peripheral slots so that customers never had to see the inside of the machine (although external ports would be provided); there was a fixed memory size so that all applications would run on all Macintoshes; the screen, keyboard, and mass storage device (and, we hoped, a printer) were to be built in so that the customer got a truly complete system, and so that we could control the appearance of characters and graphics. Jef Raskin, not Steve Jobs.

      --
      Fandroids hate facts.
    35. Re:ahh, the good ole days by CheerfulMacFanboy · · Score: 1

      Funny, though, those 'open' Macs only appeared after Jobs was gone!

      Funny? I'm have trouble finding citation but, as I recall, one of the points of friction between Jobs and Scully at the time of Job's departure was over whether to open up the Macintosh. Jobs was against it. Despite putting slots in the NeXT cubes, I think he still prefers Macs be closed. The first Macs to show the Jobs influence after his return to Apple were the iMacs. Closed again.

      Here is a nice story told by Andy Hertzfeld (The main software developer for the macintosh's os) which clearly states that jobs did not want to have any expansion slots in the macintosh (funny read):

      http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Diagnostic_Port.txt

      Quote from that page:

      Jef Raskin had a very different point of view. He thought that slots were inherently complex, and were one of the obstacles holding back personal computers from reaching a wider audience. He thought that hardware expandability made it more difficult for third party software writers since they couldn't rely on the consistency of the underlying hardware. His Macintosh vision had Apple cranking out millions of identical, easy to use, low cost appliance computers and since hardware expandability would add significant cost and complexity it was therefore avoided.

      --
      Fandroids hate facts.
    36. Re:ahh, the good ole days by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      He puts slots in NeXT cubes, but changed the form factor of the NuBus slots so that you couldn't use standard NuBus cards. So "open" but you had to use NeXT specific cards (and thus it didn't help out the NuBus market).

      The NeXT was just a weird machine in many ways in that it just refused to be easily expandable or open, including a NeXT specific printer, and it didn't come with "options", and just like most products that Steve Jobs touched, it was one-size-fits-all. Also like many Steve Jobs' products, it seems there was more attention was paid to snazzy design than to practicality at times.

      Ultimately it was competing in a market with other high end workstations that were typically more open and expandable, or that came with a big family of products (ie, small diskless workstations up to rack mounted servers). In the small computer arena it may have been seen as something cool and interesting, but in the workstation market it was an oddball.

    37. Re:ahh, the good ole days by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      In other words you're saying "In Steve Jobs defense, he was either short sighted or a true believer in planned obsolescence."

      People regularly use the same toaster for decades. People don't go and buy a relatively expensive toaster model with a plan to replace it in a couple of years.

    38. Re:ahh, the good ole days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was on the inside lid of my Apple //e (first version, not second with the numeric keypad).

      You can't possibly be remembering correctly. The wiring diagram for the Apple II+ was a Rand McNally-size foldout. It would've been smaller for the //e, but still far too large to be legible if you printed it out in a size that could fit under the lid.

    39. Re:ahh, the good ole days by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      As a nerd I have an affinity for things I can tweak but I have to admit this represents a minority opinion and that sealed boxes make sense for typical users (cost reductions, simplified supply chain, etc).

      I guess you miss the days when you had to flip DIP switches or jumpers to set IRQs, DMA channels, IO memory and memory maps, then edit cryptic configuration files and environment variables setting to configure it correctly. Then hope all the software actually accepted such settings or end up rearranging all your boards again to run a program.

      These days of PCI, USB, Plug and Play/Pray really ache, don't they? After all, nothings more fun than buying a new graphics card and spending the next week trying to get everything working so you can finally play that new game.

      It's tough to draw the line between "I want to tweak everything" and "I want to tweak some things"...

      These days, the number of things I want to tweak varies, sometimes a Mac is best because I only care for hard drives and RAM (and the challenges Apple poses satisfies my "tweaking" and "screwdriver" urges).

    40. Re:ahh, the good ole days by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Apple customers are people who usually don't know much, if anything, about the technology inside the box; more significantly, they don't *want* to know, and don't care about it.

      Sorry, you are dead wrong.

      Not only am I an embedded developer with over 30 years of experience; but I also know several EEs who are Mac-only. And yes, they are EEs with digital expertise.

    41. Re:ahh, the good ole days by macs4all · · Score: 1

      My dad had an Apple ][ plus, and I remember distinctly that it had the schematics on the lid. Though that might be different for the earlier models.

      Sorry, false memory. I have a ][+ in quiet repose in my "computer museum" (read: "pile of old computers") in the next room. Nothing on the inside of the lid but beige paint.

    42. Re:ahh, the good ole days by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Someone went as far as to stick a 170MB IDE drive on an Apple ][e... DIY guide in the link.

      That's nothing!

      Woz told me about a year ago that Wendell Sanders (STILL working for Apple!) boots his Apple 1 off of his iPod!!!

      Yes, I said Apple ONE.

    43. Re:ahh, the good ole days by anton_kg · · Score: 1

      I've got Apple II Plus with one floppy disk in a good working condition. Let me know if you want it ;-)

  2. Re:first! by zanian · · Score: 1

    first!

    fail.

  3. Still around today by asm2750 · · Score: 2
    1. Re:Still around today by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Replica I

      Pfft!

      I am the original owner of a REAL Apple 1, from 1976. The first computer I ever saw...

  4. Re:first! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's relevant, if you think about it...

  5. Yes but did it run Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wait a minute when was Linux written? Never mind.

    1. Re:Yes but did it run Linux? by commlinx · · Score: 1

      Wait a minute when was Linux written? Never mind.

      Linux kernel 0.01 was released September 1991.

    2. Re:Yes but did it run Linux? by xploraiswakco · · Score: 1

      so while Apple is turning 35, Linux will be turning 20 later this year.

  6. A machine ahead of its time by NixieBunny · · Score: 3, Informative

    The other computers that could be purchased at that time had rows of LEDs and switches on their front panels, and they needed them. The Apple was quite sophisticated for a single board computer - Altair and IMSAI used that many ICs just to make a CPU chip talk to a bus.

    --
    The determined Real Programmer can write Fortran programs in any language.
    1. Re:A machine ahead of its time by macs4all · · Score: 1

      The other computers that could be purchased at that time had rows of LEDs and switches on their front panels, and they needed them. The Apple was quite sophisticated for a single board computer - Altair and IMSAI used that many ICs just to make a CPU chip talk to a bus.

      Those S-100 bus computers WERE all trying to be PDP-8 clones. The only one that wasn't was the Processor Technology SOL-20. Pretty slick for an S-100 bus system, actually.

      But you are right; the Apple 1 was pretty much the first computer where you could sit down, flip on the power, and start computing!

      Makes me wanna get my Apple 1 fired up again...

    2. Re:A machine ahead of its time by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Indeed, computers back then didn't come with any kind of permanent storage. With the Altair you had to manually enter software byte by byte with the 8 switches on the front, one for each bit. To write software in BASIC you had to write it out by hand, convert it to binary, enter the BASIC interpreter manually and then finally enter the binary program manually.

      People who grew up with computers in the 80s remember how dodgy audio tapes were for storing programs but compared to the Altair tape was a huge leap forward.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:A machine ahead of its time by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Indeed, computers back then didn't come with any kind of permanent storage. With the Altair you had to manually enter software byte by byte with the 8 switches on the front, one for each bit.

      If you were REALLY cool, you had an ASR-33 with a Paper Tape reader, so, after you toggled the bootloader into RAM, you could spend the next 10 minutes (re)loading MS BASIC from paper (or mylar) tape.

      THEN you could start programming.

  7. Yay new media! by alexmogil · · Score: 2

    Article: 13 pages! Oh, good, some content!

    10 words and a pic, NEXT. 13 words and a pic, NEXT. 10 words and a pic.

    Close.

    --
    A winner is you!
    1. Re:Yay new media! by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 1

      To be fair, most of the images contain some text. Often the text in the images is denser than the text in the article.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  8. Apple 1 can be seen this spring .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Early Apples will be on display at the Vintage Computer Festival East 7.0, May 14-15, in New Jersey.

  9. ahh, the good ole money. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    That's what you get when you keep the glorified salesman rather than the technical genius.

    A successful company worth billions and a product others are still playing catchup with? Never mind NeXT with a computer ahead of it's time.

    1. Re:ahh, the good ole money. by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      A successful company [with] a product others are still playing catchup with?

      Don't make me laugh. The only one playing catchup in the PC market today is Apple.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    2. Re:ahh, the good ole money. by Low+Ranked+Craig · · Score: 2

      Depends on how you measure success. Apple only has 10% of the PC market share in the US, true. BUt they have 95% of the $1000 and over PC market. Apple's margins, market cap and balance sheet scoff at your statement. All the way to the bank.

      --
      I still cannot find the droids I am looking for...
    3. Re:ahh, the good ole money. by arkenian · · Score: 0

      95% of the over $1k PCs? Really? Do you have a citation for that, 'cuz I find it really really hard to believe. While I grant that PCs have gotten cheaper, $1k isn't THAT expensive, even these days...

    4. Re:ahh, the good ole money. by Brett+Buck · · Score: 0

      Riiight. Apple is the world's second-largest corporation. Microshaft is 3rd? That's the kind of "catchup" I can believe in .

    5. Re:ahh, the good ole money. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-has-91-share-of-premium-computer-market-research-firm-says-2009-7

    6. Re:ahh, the good ole money. by macs4all · · Score: 1, Informative

      A successful company [with] a product others are still playing catchup with?

      Don't make me laugh. The only one playing catchup in the PC market today is Apple.

      Are you insane, or just Trolling?

      Let's just examine Thunderbolt. Or howabout the Unibody construction? Still no? Howabout illuminated keyboards, Firewire Target Disk Mode (which is REALLY quite nice!)? Not there yet? I won't even go into the fact that Apple completely revolutionized the Smartphone, and broke the backs of the Cell carriers.

      Then there's the Macbook Air. Not my cup of blood; but still revolutionary when it was released.

      And then there's that whole tablet thing. No one even comes close to the battery life, number of apps, overall performance, oh, and price. And don't EVEN try to compare the iPad to the unmitigated shit that Android tablets are!

      It all comes down to this: If Apple is playing "catchup", why is it that every single other computing-device company can't COPY their products fast enough?

    7. Re:ahh, the good ole money. by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Riiight. Apple is the world's second-largest corporation. Microshaft is 3rd? That's the kind of "catchup" I can believe in .

      I'm pretty sure that MS isn't 3rd. More like 5th. Chevron is right behind Apple.

    8. Re:ahh, the good ole money. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      Never mind NeXT with a computer ahead of it's time.

      And when NeXT's time finally comes, I'll be ready. I've got a turbo NeXTCube in a box in the garage for when that great day comes.

      Hardly used.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    9. Re:ahh, the good ole money. by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Yes and no. At times Apple is first to offer technology like this the Thunderbolt port on the newest MacBook Pros. At times they are not. Also Apple does not refresh their product line as often as their competitors. I think that part of this comes from the fact the though they are worth more in market cap than a competitor like Dell, they are also smaller in terms of employees. Dell has 100K employees where Apple has 35K and Apple factors in their part-time retail employees into that number as they report equivalent employees and not a true headcount. Part of the other reason is Dell has way more models than Apple. If Dell were to refresh only twice a year like Apple, they could stagger the refreshes and have it appear that they are constantly updating their product line more often.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    10. Re:ahh, the good ole money. by sglewis100 · · Score: 1

      Nice Examples! Besides Thunderbolt, they also popularized USB, and to a certain extent Firewire (didn't take off as much, but for years it was THE way to connect a digital camcorder, on any platform). Also they changed the way people bought music (iTunes), both taking over retail sales, and getting some people BACK from piracy. They MADE MP3 players popular, and introduced the concept of apps on the same platform (iPod Touch). It's a bit less popular now, but they also introduced the concept of the 17" notebook that DIDN'T weigh and arm and a leg. There were video chat services before iChat and FaceTime, but they made it popular, well known, and in the case of built in cameras to your portable equipment mandatory. Before you tell me about some Android app, that was out before FaceTime, please ask a non-geek... they only know FaceTime.

    11. Re:ahh, the good ole money. by Omestes · · Score: 1

      BUt they have 95% of the $1000 and over PC market.

      How do you even make a meaningful metric for that? If I was going to spend $1k for a PC, I'd probably build it part by part, or get it custom, and not buy it as-is from a company. If your willing to spend that much, you probably want some control over the actual components too. Hell, if I spend over $700 for a PC, I'll hand build it, since at that cost, I obviously care about quality.

      And if I hand build my PC, how the hell will anyone know it cost over $1k? My main PC, right now, is probably around $800-900, and not a single body knows about it, unless somehow a bunch of component manufactures got together and compared receipts. I got parts from around 5 different vendors, reused some older parts from the PC I was replacing... Etc...

      Right down the road from me there is a shop that will custom built PCs (in large batches if necessary), some of their options go over $2k easily. I doubt that any of their sales (or the thousands of shops like it) are figured into those statistics.

      Also, we're comparing a monolithic manufacturer of one product line, to tens of less monolithic manufactures of similar products. Which, in itself, is meaningless. If we factored all the large non-Apple PC manufacturers together, then I'm sure they'd clobber Apple in the over $1k market.

      The only difference between Apple and the competition is the case and the OS. Its the same stuff inside, from the same places. So what is the real difference between Apple and any other OEM?

      The Apple label doesn't automatically translate to quality components, either. They use many of the same generic bits as Dell, and other large assemblers.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    12. Re:ahh, the good ole money. by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Nice Examples! Besides Thunderbolt, they also popularized USB, and to a certain extent Firewire

      Actually, they created FireWire in a partnership with Sony, just like they created Thunderbolt in a partnership with Intel.

      I forgot those accomplishments.

  10. wiring diagram on the inside of the lid ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Considering the size of the wiring diagramS for my Osbourne, I'm kinda doubting that. Also my ][e had no such info. Clarification please? Like was it a block diagram for the slots 'n' ports or suchlike?

    1. Re:wiring diagram on the inside of the lid ? by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

      Considering the size of the wiring diagramS for my Osbourne, I'm kinda doubting that. Also my ][e had no such info. Clarification please? Like was it a block diagram for the slots 'n' ports or suchlike?

      I have no idea - I couldn't then (and can't now) read wiring diagrams. *shrug* It was an Apple //e - the first version, not the later one with a numeric keypad.

    2. Re:wiring diagram on the inside of the lid ? by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Considering the size of the wiring diagramS for my Osbourne, I'm kinda doubting that. Also my ][e had no such info. Clarification please? Like was it a block diagram for the slots 'n' ports or suchlike?

      I have no idea - I couldn't then (and can't now) read wiring diagrams. *shrug* It was an Apple //e - the first version, not the later one with a numeric keypad.

      Are you sure it wasn't a clone? There were NO Apple ][, ][+, //c, //e or IIgs computers with a schematic, block diagram, or anything else for that matter, on the lid, or anywhere else. Schematics were in the owner's manual (and I think that even disappeared with the //c or //e).

    3. Re:wiring diagram on the inside of the lid ? by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

      Are you sure it wasn't a clone? There were NO Apple ][, ][+, //c, //e or IIgs computers with a schematic, block diagram, or anything else for that matter, on the lid, or anywhere else. Schematics were in the owner's manual (and I think that even disappeared with the //c or //e).

      No, I'm sure it wasn't a clone, and who knows, I may be misremembering - I sold that thing in 1986 to buy an Amiga 500 (took that long to pay it off!). I don't know what else I would be thinking of - I certainly couldn't open my Amiga 500 (other than the little trap door in the bottom). *shrug* Who knows. I'm probably just getting senile. It's to the point where with my home projects, I want to check out even older tech than I once had - I want to get an old Altair 8800 or IMSAI 8080 to play with, and figure out how those monsters worked. Definitely before my time, but they look like a lot of fun. They are sadly expensive these days - so few are still working. :(

    4. Re:wiring diagram on the inside of the lid ? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Considering the size of the wiring diagramS for my Osbourne, I'm kinda doubting that. Also my ][e had no such info. Clarification please? Like was it a block diagram for the slots 'n' ports or suchlike?

      I have no idea - I couldn't then (and can't now) read wiring diagrams. *shrug* It was an Apple //e - the first version, not the later one with a numeric keypad.

      We had Apple ][s at high school. I made a joystick for it by interfacing to an IC socket at the back of the motherboard. I don't recall where I got the information but I am certain it didn't come from google ;)

    5. Re:wiring diagram on the inside of the lid ? by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Are you sure it wasn't a clone? There were NO Apple ][, ][+, //c, //e or IIgs computers with a schematic, block diagram, or anything else for that matter, on the lid, or anywhere else. Schematics were in the owner's manual (and I think that even disappeared with the //c or //e).

      No, I'm sure it wasn't a clone, and who knows, I may be misremembering - I sold that thing in 1986 to buy an Amiga 500 (took that long to pay it off!). I don't know what else I would be thinking of - I certainly couldn't open my Amiga 500 (other than the little trap door in the bottom). *shrug* Who knows. I'm probably just getting senile. It's to the point where with my home projects, I want to check out even older tech than I once had - I want to get an old Altair 8800 or IMSAI 8080 to play with, and figure out how those monsters worked. Definitely before my time, but they look like a lot of fun. They are sadly expensive these days - so few are still working. :(

      Not as expensive as my Apple 1... ;-) I keep threatening to fix it up and sell it; but so far...

      The problem with old S-100 bus systems would be getting one to WORK. They hardly worked reliably when they were new, let alone after al the timing gimick capacitors have aged for 40 years...

    6. Re:wiring diagram on the inside of the lid ? by Sam+Nitzberg · · Score: 1

      I had a late model Apple II+ (Revision 7 motherboard). Loved the machine.

      The System Manual for the Apple II (forget the exact designation) had a fold-out circuit diagram of the entire system.

      One of the other manuals also provided a significant amount of assembly code (relating to some aspect of the system). I don't remember the exact nature of the code provided.

  11. My favorite Apple contribution to society is by CrazyJim1 · · Score: 1

    (heresay following, I may be wrong) At one point Steve Jobs said it is cool for 3rd party developers to make applications. This flew in the face of other corporations at the time like ATARI and IBM who were trying to say,"Only the hardware manufacturer had the right to make applications" The world would be a much darker place if only hardware manufacturers could make applications for so many reasons I don't feel the need to list them here. In fact... some of the corporations are trying to backtrack on this today that,"Only some companies can make applications on their hardware."

    1. Re:My favorite Apple contribution to society is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      (heresay following, I may be wrong) At one point Steve Jobs said it is cool for 3rd party developers to make applications.

      And followed it with "But we'll take 30%".

    2. Re:My favorite Apple contribution to society is by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      And decide which applications 3rd party developers can and cannot make.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    3. Re:My favorite Apple contribution to society is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      heresay following, I may be wrong

      I like that word "heresay", presumably a portmanteau of "hearsay" and "heresy".

  12. keyboards... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    And Apple still does not provide a keyboard standard. You have to pay to get one. At least it comes with the case.

    1. Re:keyboards... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      And Apple still does not provide a keyboard standard.

      Why does a date entry device need a banner?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    2. Re:keyboards... by YoshiDan · · Score: 1

      Bull-fucking-shit. My iMac came with a keyboard. Mac pros come with a keyboard. The only computers that don't come with a keyboard is the mac mini.

    3. Re:keyboards... by macs4all · · Score: 1

      And Apple still does not provide a keyboard standard. You have to pay to get one. At least it comes with the case.

      The only Apple computer that doesn't come with a keyboard is the Mac mini.

      Stop trolling, fucktard.

    4. Re:keyboards... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not all of us are rich enough for a Mac Pro- therefore, for me, they do not include a keyboard. How is this false?

    5. Re:keyboards... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not all of us are rich enough for a Mac Pro- therefore, for me, they do not include a keyboard. How is this false?

      Because you didn't put a price point on your comment, UNTIL I pointed out you were wrong.

      Oh, and I completely forgot about the iMac. Those come with keyboards, too. And they aren't $2500.

      My initial comment stands: The ONLY Mac that DOESN'T come with a keyboard is the Mac mini.

      Now, prove me wrong or STFU.

    6. Re:keyboards... by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      When you qualify your statement to include only conditions which only satisfy your premise and fail to mention your conditions, your statement can be demonstrably false. You are asking people to interpet your unspoken thoughts instead of your written words. In the same light I can say that the iPod Touch is the only wifi capable MP3 player*, I'm sure that will get challenged as false if I didn't specify the following conditions.
      * made by Apple that is not an iPhone.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  13. I'm celebrating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    By buying a new pc with interchanagable modular parts that can be upgraded however i wish from any mfg with the best price/preformance without those mfgs telling me what i can and can't do with the hardware and software that i bought. For half the price of an apple. Which incidentally now also uses that same exact hardware. But only if it has been blessed by his holyness The Jobs.

  14. Apple ][ responsible for Bender by frankmu · · Score: 2

    http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/processors/the-truth-about-benders-brain I didn't realize that Apple would be responsible for Bender's MOS 6502 brain. Apparently David X Cohen programmed assembly for the Apple ][ in high school.

    --
    Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
    1. Re:Apple ][ responsible for Bender by macs4all · · Score: 1

      http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/processors/the-truth-about-benders-brain I didn't realize that Apple would be responsible for Bender's MOS 6502 brain. Apparently David X Cohen programmed assembly for the Apple ][ in high school.

      There are ALWAYS tons of Apple/Mac/6502 jokes and references in Futurama.

    2. Re:Apple ][ responsible for Bender by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      I had a different 6502 system. It came with a one page rundown of 6502 machine code. With that information I taught myself to hand assemble machine code. I doubt I could have done that on a Z80. The 6502 was a fantastic proto-RISC processor.

  15. Kickass CPU by Wolfling1 · · Score: 1

    The 6502 processor was fast, clean and easy to program. My first assembly programs were on it. The assembly language was simpler and almost as fast as Z-80, and the apple BIOS permitted much more elegant control of the screen. It was so nice, it persisted into the Vic 20s, a much newer machine with a tidier construction and layout.

    The 6502 was eventually surpassed by the 6809, which lead into the notorious 8088 and then x86 range.

    None of them beat the 6502 for intuitive assembly code. It was almost as clean as the PDP-11.

    1. Re:Kickass CPU by perpenso · · Score: 2

      The 6502 and 8088 are unrelated.
      The 68000 in the Mac was PDP-11 like.

      6502 was my first assembly language, 68000 my second and then I had the assembly language class at the university and we used the PDP-11. Afterwards I did x86 (16-bit). I expect that if I had started with x86 I would have hated assembly language like everyone else. For those of you thinking x86 is not so bad, let me guess, you started in the 32-bit era? :-)

    2. Re:Kickass CPU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 6502 processor was fast, clean and easy to program. My first assembly programs were on it. The assembly language was simpler and almost as fast as Z-80, and the apple BIOS permitted much more elegant control of the screen. It was so nice, it persisted into the Vic 20s, a much newer machine with a tidier construction and layout. The 6502 was eventually surpassed by the 6809, which lead into the notorious 8088 and then x86 range. None of them beat the 6502 for intuitive assembly code. It was almost as clean as the PDP-11.

      Not sure what you mean by surpassed. They are not related in any way. And since the 6502 was also used in the Commodore 64, the best-selling single personal computer model of all time (6510 was a 6502 with just additional IO ports integrated), it was't surpassed in sales or use before long into the growth of the x86 PC era.

      Do agree that the 6502 was a nice and simple processor to program with assembly.

    3. Re:Kickass CPU by macs4all · · Score: 1

      The 6502 processor was fast, clean and easy to program. My first assembly programs were on it. The assembly language was simpler and almost as fast as Z-80, and the apple BIOS permitted much more elegant control of the screen. It was so nice, it persisted into the Vic 20s, a much newer machine with a tidier construction and layout. The 6502 was eventually surpassed by the 6809, which lead into the notorious 8088 and then x86 range. None of them beat the 6502 for intuitive assembly code. It was almost as clean as the PDP-11.

      I can't tell you how many tens-of-thousands of lines of 6502 assembly I wrote for the Apple 1, Apple ][, Commodore 64 (6510, but still the same core), as well as a bunch of my own embedded designs.

      I also wrote a lot of assembler for 6801, 6805, 6809, 68HC11 (6801 core) and some 8085 and 8048/8051 stuff, too.

      Other than a "6" at the beginning, the 6809 really has more in common with the 68000 than the 6502. Quite the cool beast; I really wish that Mot. had made some microcontrollers based on the 6809. REALLY cool architecture, with DUAL STACKS, concatenatable accumulators, 16 bit index registers, etc.

      But I loved me some 6502... I could program a sunny day in that thing in assembler!

    4. Re:Kickass CPU by macs4all · · Score: 2

      The 6502 processor was fast, clean and easy to program. My first assembly programs were on it. The assembly language was simpler and almost as fast as Z-80, and the apple BIOS permitted much more elegant control of the screen. It was so nice, it persisted into the Vic 20s, a much newer machine with a tidier construction and layout. The 6502 was eventually surpassed by the 6809, which lead into the notorious 8088 and then x86 range. None of them beat the 6502 for intuitive assembly code. It was almost as clean as the PDP-11.

      Not sure what you mean by surpassed. They are not related in any way. And since the 6502 was also used in the Commodore 64, the best-selling single personal computer model of all time (6510 was a 6502 with just additional IO ports integrated), it was't surpassed in sales or use before long into the growth of the x86 PC era.

      Do agree that the 6502 was a nice and simple processor to program with assembly.

      What's amazing is that the 6502 core lives on in many custom and semi-custom microcontrollers. For example, a LOT of webcam controllers are actually 6502-based (with a BUNCH of specialized hardware around the core).

      In fact, I read somewhere a few years ago, that the 6502 was actually the largest-selling CPU core in the world.

      Too bad the 65816 never caught on. I actually have a 65802 (the 8-bit bus version of the 65816) in my Apple ][.

    5. Re:Kickass CPU by Dollyknot · · Score: 1

      Yeah back in the day, I could think in 6502, beautiful simplicity - why on earth they did not keep the same register arrangement and zero page arrangement, but scale everything up will always baffle me.

      Just imagine a zero page with 65536 registers and 16 bit a,x and y registers, a missed opportunity surely.

      --
      It's called an elephant's trunk whereas it is in fact, an elephant's nose, a nose by any other name would smell as sweet
    6. Re:Kickass CPU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah back in the day, I could think in 6502, beautiful simplicity - why on earth they did not keep the same register arrangement and zero page arrangement, but scale everything up will always baffle me.

      Just imagine a zero page with 65536 registers and 16 bit a,x and y registers, a missed opportunity surely.

      Just imagine....
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WDC_65816/65802

    7. Re:Kickass CPU by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      The 6502 was designed in a manner easy to explain and understand for programming. Everything a programmer needed to know was on one side of a sheet of paper. Its competitor, the 8080, with slightly fewer transistors, was less regular and thus harder to describe. For most purposes, they had about the same processing power.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    8. Re:Kickass CPU by NixieBunny · · Score: 1

      The PowerPC sorta has that zero page with 65536 registers. At least, you have to stand on your head to get a 32 bit literal into it.

      --
      The determined Real Programmer can write Fortran programs in any language.
    9. Re:Kickass CPU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's amazing is that the 6502 core lives on in many custom and semi-custom microcontrollers. For example, a LOT of webcam controllers are actually 6502-based (with a BUNCH of specialized hardware around the core).

      I doubt that. It's far more likely that you'll find an ARM core in a webcam. And even if it's an 8-bitter, it's unlikely to be a 6502. For a very long time, the most popular 8-bit microcontroller, by a huge margin, was Intel's 8051 (and clones).

      These days, somewhat more modern 8-bit architectures like PIC and AVR have displaced 8051, and low end ARM cores are eating into the high end of all 8-bit uC applications. (because the simplest possible ARM core turns out to be not a hell of a lot more die area than an 8-bit, and in modern processes most uC dies are likely to have their size set by the number of pad sites rather than the size of the logic.)

      For whatever reason (it was before my time as a professional), 6502 never had huge success as an embedded microcontroller. My guess would be that the minimal cost implementation of a 6502 system was probably too much compared to 8051 and others.

      In fact, I read somewhere a few years ago, that the 6502 was actually the largest-selling CPU core in the world.

      Once again, very doubtful. ARM is the much more likely candidate for that.

  16. Can we forget about the Apple I ? by Yvanhoe · · Score: 0

    Please ?

    --
    The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    1. Re:Can we forget about the Apple I ? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      No.

  17. Most Hackable Computer by Sarusa · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I had schematics for the ][ and the entire annotated source code for that and Apple DOS 3.2/3.3. And these weren't pirate, Apple happily published them. Woz was a freaking genius with how much he did with so little hardware.

    You wanted to add lower case? Just run this wire here. Optionally bypass the write protect for floppies? Just put a three pole switch here. You want to extend the BASIC? Sure, here's these hooks (and Beagle Brothers made insane use of that).

    The Apple I was the prototype for that and I salute it. I never had one, though of course now I wish I did!

    Also funny how it's utterly unlike the Apple of today. I remember when the first Mac came out, completely unexpandable, and The Steve declared that it would never have more than 128K of RAM because that was more than enough for anyone. Which was ridiculous, because my Apple ][ had 16x that much already.

    Yes I'm old.

    1. Re:Most Hackable Computer by macs4all · · Score: 2

      I had schematics for the ][ and the entire annotated source code for that and Apple DOS 3.2/3.3.

      I can go one better: I actually assembled DOS 3.3 on a regular basis, and made several, several modifications to same, all the way down to the RWTS (Read-Write Track and Sector) and Nibble-handling routines.

      In fact, I created a custom version of Randy Wigginton's TED-II Weekend Assembler that could assemble to and from disk; because that was the ONLY way you could assemble something as huge as DOS...

      And these weren't pirate, Apple happily published them.

      BZZT! Wrong! Apple didn't sue the shit out of the people who DID publish the source. I think it was the Apple Pugetsound guys (the "CALL A.P.P.L.E." user group, or maybe it was Bob Sander-Cederlof...); but it WAS at least partially "pirated" (actually, disassembled from object code). IIRC, the DOS 3.3 manual had some bits and pieces of source; but certainly NOT the entire source code listing.

      Woz was a freaking genius with how much he did with so little hardware.

      You'll get no quibble from me on that point!!!

      You wanted to add lower case? Just run this wire here. Optionally bypass the write protect for floppies? Just put a three pole switch here. You want to extend the BASIC? Sure, here's these hooks (and Beagle Brothers made insane use of that).

      So did I. I even created a virtual-memory and Applesoft BASIC "Overlay" system using that wonderful "Ampersand" hook!!!

      The Apple I was the prototype for that and I salute it. I never had one, though of course now I wish I did!

      Not to brag; but I do... Had it since 1976. One owner (me).

      Also funny how it's utterly unlike the Apple of today. I remember when the first Mac came out, completely unexpandable, and The Steve declared that it would never have more than 128K of RAM because that was more than enough for anyone.

      Actually, that was a price-point decision. RAM wasn't so cheap back then...

      Which was ridiculous, because my Apple ][ had 16x that much already.

      Your Apple ][ had 2 MB of RAM?!?! Where did you put the auxiliary power supply?!? Perhaps you mean Apple IIgs, right?

      Yes I'm old.

      Bet I'm older...

    2. Re:Most Hackable Computer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also funny how it's utterly unlike the Apple of today. I remember when the first Mac came out, completely unexpandable, and The Steve declared that it would never have more than 128K of RAM because that was more than enough for anyone.

      Which was ridiculous, because my Apple ][ had 16x that much already.

      Your Apple ][ had 2 MB of RAM?!?! Where did you put the auxiliary power supply?!? Perhaps you mean Apple IIgs, right?

      Ramworks.

    3. Re:Most Hackable Computer by eganloo · · Score: 1

      I remember when the first Mac came out, completely unexpandable, and The Steve declared that it would never have more than 128K of RAM because that was more than enough for anyone.

      Which was ridiculous, because my Apple ][ had 16x that much already.

      Your Apple ][ had 2 MB of RAM?!?! Where did you put the auxiliary power supply?!? Perhaps you mean Apple IIgs, right?

      Ramworks.

      I think the grandparent article was pointing out that an Apple ][ could not have 2MB of RAM "already" when the first Macintosh was released in early 1984, since RamWorks' Applied Engineering and other expansion makers did not offer the 2MB option until later. By September of 1984, it was a moot point, since the Macintosh 512K hit shelves (with the third-party option for more memory).

    4. Re:Most Hackable Computer by Sarusa · · Score: 1

      Yeah, looking back, I wouldn't have had one till 1986, two years after the Mac launched and by then you already had the Fat Mac at 512K.

        Here's the InfoWorld review of it at the time: http://tinyurl.com/3wgx76z

      I must have been thinking of the Mac Plus, which finally upgraded the Macs to a megabyte.

  18. Who's not a geek by macraig · · Score: 0, Troll

    Being a geek is about values. Only one of the Two Steves is a geek. Steve Wozniak is a geek; Steve Jobs is not. Wozniak would be reveling in gadgets and tech whether it made him a pile of money or not; Jobs would head for the exit the moment it was clear to him the grass was greener elsewhere. Jobs would be perfectly happy doing anything, in the complete absence of anything geeky, if it made him filthy rich and popular.

    Wozniak is a geek. Jobs is just a... salesman.

    1. Re:Who's not a geek by dingen · · Score: 1

      Of course Steve Jobs is more of a salesman than a geek. But even more so, he is a megalomaniac with a need to change the world. That's why he wouldn't leave Apple from something else if that would bring him more money per se, because the other thing has to be more world-changing than Apple can be.

      --
      Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
    2. Re:Who's not a geek by inpher · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Steve is not really selling so much, he is only selling at most ten days of the year and not even full days, in fact he spends most of the days running a company where he oversees design and production of both software and hardware, that is not the job of a salesman.

      I do not think Steve Jobs would be happy doing whatever makes him rich, remember what he said to John Sculley in 1985 "Do you want to sell sugarwater the rest of your life, or do you want to come with me and change the world?" is a pretty strong indicator that Steve was not in it just to make money (but I wouldn't fault him if he saw money as something entirely positive). Jobs most likely sees himself as a visionary or an artist, perhaps even a philosopher, he probably is an "architect" archetype where he wants to leave a lasting legacy (see his Stanford Commencement speech where he hints at this).

    3. Re:Who's not a geek by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      remember what he said to John Sculley in 1985 "Do you want to sell sugarwater the rest of your life, or do you want to come with me and change the world?"

      He wouldn't have said that in '85, by '85 the board had ousted him from Apple. IIRC Sculley came in in 1983. Jobs left in '84, not too long after the launch of the Macintosh.

    4. Re:Who's not a geek by inpher · · Score: 1

      He wouldn't have said that in '85, by '85 the board had ousted him from Apple. IIRC Sculley came in in 1983. Jobs left in '84, not too long after the launch of the Macintosh.

      True, the quote is from 1983 and Jobs was ousted in 1985, I got them mixed up.

  19. Beginnings of the Apple style... by julesh · · Score: 2

    ... including the claim that its 16 bit address bus allowed expansion to 65K of memory. /me didn't realise the use of decimal rather than binary capacity multipliers in marketing claims was so old.

    1. Re:Beginnings of the Apple style... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not decimal. The Apple I had a separate 1k video memory made of shift registers. So 64k RAM + 1k video shift registers = 65k memory.

    2. Re:Beginnings of the Apple style... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      /me didn't realise the use of decimal rather than binary capacity multipliers in marketing claims was so old.

      You've got it backwards. "kilo" is and always was a decimal prefix, so strictly speaking, Apple was correct. What's more, the custom to (mis)use "kilo" etc. as binary multipliers didn't arise until much later, so they didn't pull any marketing tricks, either.

      It's like going back to 1850 and claiming that a 4-hp carriage is misleadingly labelled because it's drawn by four actual horses rather than having a 4 hp engine. ;)

    3. Re:Beginnings of the Apple style... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've got it backwards. "kilo" is and always was a decimal prefix, so strictly speaking, Apple was correct. What's more, the custom to (mis)use "kilo" etc. as binary multipliers didn't arise until much later, so they didn't pull any marketing tricks, either.

      So when Apple advertised "8K Bytes of RAM" in 1976 then meant 8000 bytes? No, I don't think so. You're just wrong.

    4. Re:Beginnings of the Apple style... by Arlet · · Score: 1

      Just as 65K didn't mean 65000 bytes, there's no reason why 8K would have to mean 8000 bytes. It's called rounding.

    5. Re:Beginnings of the Apple style... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Luckily it was proper rounding unlike System 8 where twice 8192k became 6384k.

  20. Re:Negroes are inferior by CTU · · Score: 1

    somebody IP ban this guy please, or at least mod him down...this crap does not fly here at /.

  21. One page of content spread across 13. Joy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gotta love those click farms with one single photo and two paragraphs of text per page. Nice way to spread one article out over 13 pages.

  22. I love this poster but I have to ask... by dingen · · Score: 0

    ...wtf is up with this dude's chin? http://technologizer.com/2011/04/08/apple-i/13/

    --
    Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
    1. Re:I love this poster but I have to ask... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Looks like he's grown two heads.

      It's Xaphod Beeblebrox!

    2. Re:I love this poster but I have to ask... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The duplication in the middle was for margin error, as this ad was originally printed sideways. Think of it like a playboy centerfold for nerds.

  23. Re:Boycott new media! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fight back against these antisocial New Media types - never click Next Page when it is clear they could have put the entire thing on one page.

  24. Other good reasons for closing the box... by itsdapead · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have an affinity for things I can tweak but I have to admit this represents a minority opinion and that sealed boxes make sense for typical users (cost reductions, simplified supply chain, etc).

    Of course there are other good reasons for "closing the box"... The original Mac, the first iMac and several models in between had built-in CRTs and the associated high-voltage circuitry, so you really, really didn't want users poking their fingers inside.

    Most subsequent consumer Macs have been "small form factor" (and usually much smaller form-factor than competing SFF computers). If you make something as tiny as the Mac Mini or a slim as a modern iMac, you're gonna end up with "no user servicable parts inside". The advantage for Apple is that ultra-slim systems can sell for a premium *useful if you're trying to develop your own platform), rather than trying to compete in the low-margin mini-tower and boxy laptop market.

    As you point out, Apple tower systems are still clip-open (swapping drives or adding memory to a Mac Pro is a breeze).

    The other thing is, the motive and opportunity for tinkering has reduced. In the 80s any self-respecting geek would have lost the lid of their computer and have all manner of internal expansion - even on systems that didn't support it there would be boards piggybacked on chips and flying wires soldered to pins on the motherboard. Not so easy on a modern multi-layer motherboard with surface-mount components. I haven't felt the need to go near a computer with a soldering iron in years... There's also less need - the main reason I ever went delving in a Mac (apart from memory and HD upgrades) was to fit ethernet cards - these days, you'll find at least one ethernet port (probably plus WiFi) built in to any half-decent board, and anything else can be fitted via USB. The only PC with an internal add-on card I have now is my MythTV box - and I'm planning to replace that with a smaller box + USB tuner (having found that there are few linux-supported PCIe tuners and that the most suitable dual tuner PCI card is actually a USB tuner stuck on a card with a PCI-USB bridge...)

    Apple have also pushed external expansion - first SCSI, then Firewire, then the iMac pulled USB out of the doldrums, now they're pushing ThunderBolt...

    --
    In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    1. Re:Other good reasons for closing the box... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I think it is fair to say that Apple see servicing as a source of revenue for most of their devices, high end professional systems excepted.

      To be fair they have got a lot better in the last few years. Until a few years ago MacBooks were a real pain to service, requiring you to remove the motherboard to swap the HDD if it failed. Newer models make common faults like the HDD much easier to change but there are still lots of difficult bits. MacBook keyboards that are part of the case come to mind. Some people argue that it is because that is the only way to make a thin and light notebook but other manufacturers can do it and still keep their machines very serviceable. Panasonic Dynabooks and Sony VAIOs come to mind, although Sony in particular charge silly money for parts (some black VAIO keyboards go for £180 on eBay, compared to an Acer one at £12).

      It's an interesting business model. Most manufacturers want to avoid problems as much as possible to give the user a good experience and make them buy the same brand again, but Apple Think Different(tm). I can't decide if they just want to make money out of repairs or if they want to make the price so high you just go out and buy a new machine.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:Other good reasons for closing the box... by Moryath · · Score: 1

      I can't decide if they just want to make money out of repairs or if they want to make the price so high you just go out and buy a new machine.

      "A little from column A, a little from column B..."

      That's really the answer. For some things (like back when the iMac had everything crammed into a shell with a built in CRT and you didn't want the user killing themselves accidentally touching a high-voltage capacitor while trying to attach a PCI card) there were user-reasons to not have end users taking them apart.

      For some of it, they recognize that the network of Apple Stores and third-party "authorized service centers" really do rely on a certain price premium to repair a lot of the stuff. Plus, the various warranty terms and difficulty of opening most of the systems condition their users to "just bring it in" rather than trying to repair things themselves.

      Now when it comes to the third... well, I've had to take apart a few of these things now and again. The desk-lamp iMacs were annoying as fuck. Current crop of iMacs, likewise. But neither compares to the idiocy of the Mac Mini, which doesn't even give you an access panel to swap the fucking RAM.

    3. Re:Other good reasons for closing the box... by speculatrix · · Score: 1

      having wanted to buy a fan for a Vaio TX series, I can say I'll never touch another Sony computer product; they wanted GB£150 (US$220) just to look at it, never mind actually fix it. When I tried to buy a fan they wouldn't sell it to me. I had the part number for the fan, a Toshiba unit, but the only places that listed in online were "breakers" who were selling used parts (either on ebay or specialist dealers).

      For this reason I'd look very carefully at the cost of spares, and/or the cost of extra-long warranties, on a laptop before buying.

    4. Re:Other good reasons for closing the box... by Agripa · · Score: 1

      There's also less need - the main reason I ever went delving in a Mac (apart from memory and HD upgrades) was to fit ethernet cards - these days, you'll find at least one ethernet port (probably plus WiFi) built in to any half-decent board, and anything else can be fitted via USB.

      I have actually found more reason to add expansion cards in the past couple of years because USB serial converters fail with some serial devices (this seems to be getting worse) and what do you do for your second ethernet port? Or third even. One for the shared WAN connection, one for local high speed file sharing (not needed so much now with ubiquitus gigabit ethernet although with faster file server hardware you might want to bridge some ports), and one for configuring other devices which are living on weird subnets.

  25. And if it wasn't for some help from Chuck Peddle by prowler1 · · Score: 3, Informative

    it may not have been completed.

    http://www.commodore.ca/history/people/chuck_peddle/chuck_peddle.htm

    Apparently when he turned up to help them out, he ended up doing a lot of analysing of what they were doing and helping them understand how the 6502 worked and what they were doing wrong.

  26. Hire Dedicated Seo by ariahills · · Score: 0

    I was very encouraged to find this site. I wanted to thank you for this special read. I definitely savored every little bit of it. Hire Dedicated Seo

  27. You have 650 Advanced Orders for Apple II? Right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My earliest memory of meeting Steve Jobs was, IIRC, at the Atlantic City Microcomputer Festival in August 1977. He gave me a pitch about the Apple 1 and explained why people wanted color computers, even low resolution, instead of the state of the art monochrome displays. He told me, confidentially, that Apple already had 650 orders for the unannounced Apple II computer. I walked away thinking he was a misguided huckster. 650 advanced orders? Yeah, right, will never happen. I finally decided to buy an Alpha Micro, a 16 bit PDP-11 clone and use it to develop and market software. Now that was a useful computer. It was a true multiuser computer capable of support a whopping 5 users. Alpha Micro Basic language was much more advanced than Apple's. The main regret I have is in not taking more photos of those early days. The majority of the vendors exhibiting at the show were are now long gone, with the notable exception of Apple.

  28. Commie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ah, yes, let's remember the Apple I but forget the ol' Commodore 64.

  29. Quick! Buy an original Apple I by wisebabo · · Score: 0

    And if it HASN'T been too well maintained over the years (not thoroughly cleaned inside) maybe you can get some old skin flakes from when Steve Jobs personally hand soldered some of the connections.

    Then, using the DNA from the flakes, makes some clones. From the clones, harvest some organs (a pancreas and liver should do just fine*). Offer them to Mr. Jobs for a cool $1 Billion (or the chance to be first in line for the iPad 3 ;)

    Actually there might be easier ways of getting the requisite cells. In fact, if you've already got this level of cloning ability, you could probably just ask him. (Another alternative would be to grow some organs from stem cells, that technology is coming along.)

    *while you're at it try to excise/replace the "bad" gene which made his pancreas cancerous in the first place

  30. Remember the good old days by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 0

    Remember when a article would take up one page and was split out among 13 pages with 6 billion ads surrounding the tiny bit of content on each page? Those were the days.

  31. Prophet by DragonHawk · · Score: 1

    "Jobs most likely sees himself as a visionary or an artist, perhaps even a philosopher..."

    From what I've seen of how he talks, how he treats customers, and how fans follow him, I would say "prophet" would be more apt.

    (And like most prophets, he's invented his own religion.)

    --

    dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
    I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
  32. Typical Apple Revisionism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wrong. From wikipedia:

    "However, to make a working computer, users still had to add a case, power supply transformers, power switch, ASCII keyboard, and composite video display."

    It didn't have a power switch to flip. And Wozniak couldn't even get the thing to work properly without help from MOS/Commodore's Chuck Peddle.

    As always, Apple's contribution to early computing is severely overblown by revisionists.

    For a good history of early personal computers (particularly those where the 6502 is involved), check out the book "Commodore: A Company on the Edge"- the first half is basically about the father of personal computers, Chuck Peddle.

    1. Re:Typical Apple Revisionism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And Wozniak couldn't even get the thing to work properly without help from MOS/Commodore's Chuck Peddle. As always, Apple's contribution to early computing is severely overblown by revisionists.

      I think your take is revisionism. Steve Wozniak freely admits to having a problem with the 6502 in early Apple II designs: namely, the original DRAM refresh system did not interleave refresh/video cycles with 6502 cycles. Instead it stopped the 6502 for 40 usec at a time while refreshing DRAM. This was done because the Synertek data sheet for the 6502 indicated that the clock could be stopped for 40 usec. As it turned out, the data sheet was wrong, and the 6502 could not reliably be stopped for 40 usec. If Chuck helped Woz with this problem he never came up with a good solution because the problem was finally solved by the availability of 2Mhz DRAMS that permitted the seamless interleaving of CPU and refresh cycles.

    2. Re:Typical Apple Revisionism by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Wrong. From wikipedia:

      "However, to make a working computer, users still had to add a case, power supply transformers, power switch, ASCII keyboard, and composite video display."

      It didn't have a power switch to flip. And Wozniak couldn't even get the thing to work properly without help from MOS/Commodore's Chuck Peddle.

      As always, Apple's contribution to early computing is severely overblown by revisionists.

      For a good history of early personal computers (particularly those where the 6502 is involved), check out the book "Commodore: A Company on the Edge"- the first half is basically about the father of personal computers, Chuck Peddle.

      Ok, I'll give you that it was just a motherboard. However, once a user hooked up a power supply, keyboard, and composite monitor (or RF modulator and TV), then they instantly had a working system, which didn't require toggling in a bootloader everytime the power was removed.

      So, Woz asked for some help with something that was ultimately due to an errata in the MOS Technology 6502 datasheet. So?

    3. Re:Typical Apple Revisionism by macs4all · · Score: 1

      f Chuck helped Woz with this problem he never came up with a good solution because the problem was finally solved by the availability of 2Mhz DRAMS that permitted the seamless interleaving of CPU and refresh cycles.

      Right.

      And now that I think about it, the GGP was conflating the Apple 1, which had no video interleaving, because it used a "glass TTY"-type display, using SHIFT REGISTERS for the "video RAM", vs. the Apple ][, which used the system DRAM in an "interleaved" timing fashion.

  33. Nostaliga! by scharkalvin · · Score: 2

    I didn't realize that Apple was still selling Apple I's after they introduced the Apple II. I thought they has sold out the entire first (and ONLY) run of Apple 1 boards before the II was introduced. What the story didn't mention was the fact that Apple ALSO sold the Apple II as just a bare board sans case, just like the Apple I. They didn't offer this option very long, but I do remember it being available. Perhaps they thought that Apple I owners who had built the I into a custom case would want to upgrade? I think the two boards were about the same size, but the II had to be mounted with the short dimension front to back (if you wanted the expansion slots in back).

    Stan Veit operated a NYC computer shop (in the back of a toy store) and carried the Apple I. I remember seeing it AND the Apple II when they first came out. I worked at a rival computer store, but we didn't carry Apple or Altair. The place I worked at had SWTP, Processor Technology, and Imsai computers.

    1. Re:Nostaliga! by macs4all · · Score: 1

      What the story didn't mention was the fact that Apple ALSO sold the Apple II as just a bare board sans case, just like the Apple I. They didn't offer this option very long, but I do remember it being available.

      In fact, you are correct.

      When I saw a site a few weeks ago with some early Apple ][ documentation, it mentioned what specifications you'd need for your OWN power supply.

      I emailed Woz about it, and he replied with the following (reprinted without permission) :

      Yes.

      I [Woz] had visited a few tech types at Hughes in Orange County, CA, and told them we'd probably sell the Apple }{ board for $500 or $600. Our investor and marketing head, Mike Markkula, wanted to only sell fully built Apple }{'s for a much higher price. Out of kindness to me, he allowed a very small initial sale to proceed for the board, but it wasn't heavily promoted (in ads) and disappeared right after a few were bought that way.

  34. Learn your history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... including the claim that its 16 bit address bus allowed expansion to 65K of memory. /me didn't realise the use of decimal rather than binary capacity multipliers in marketing claims was so old.

    There's a common perception that disk makers and bandwidth providers are cheating customers by advertising base-10 gigabytes and megabits. They're not. They're reporting numbers the way storage and data transmission people have done since the beginning of time.

    It's the memory and CPU manufacturers that gradually switched from base-10 to base-2 because it made calculations and addressing easier.

  35. Ahh, but... by swalve · · Score: 1

    ...it didn't have those cool bitmap graphics as function keys that the Timex Sinclair had! An Apple ][+ was the first computer I ever killed. Accidentally plugged in a parallel card while the thing was on. Actually, all it killed was the BASIC ROM. You could still boot Pascal games.

  36. Re:Quick! Buy an original Apple I by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And if it HASN'T been too well maintained over the years (not thoroughly cleaned inside) maybe you can get some old skin flakes from when Steve Jobs personally hand soldered some of the connections

    Steve Jobs knows how to solder???

    Wow, my opinion of him just quadrupled.