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Sony's Case Against Geohot Has Been Settled

Posted by Soulskill on from the peace-returns-to-the-land dept.

matt_gaia writes "According to Sony Computer Entertainment America, they have reached a settlement with GeoHot (George Hotz), where Hotz has consented to a permanent injunction, but still denies any wrong-doing in the whole affair. Sony said, 'Our motivation for bringing this litigation was to protect our intellectual property and our consumers. We believe this settlement and the permanent injunction achieve this goal.'" I wonder if Anonymous will proceed with their anti-Sony campaign.

31 of 469 comments (clear)

  1. Oh, stuff it. by intellitech · · Score: 5, Insightful

    'Our motivation for bringing this litigation was to protect our intellectual property and our consumers.'

    If SCEA was ever interested in protecting consumers, they never would have brought suit against GeoHot in the first place.

    --
    vos nescitis quicquam, nec cogitatis quia expedit nobis ut unus moriatur homo pro populo et non tota gens pereat.
    1. Re:Oh, stuff it. by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If SCEA was ever interested in protecting consumers, they never would have brought suit against GeoHot in the first place.

      That part is so they can act like part of the motivation is so people don't write hacks to their modded systems that lets them cheat at the on-line games.

      I'm of the opinion that it's 99% protecting of their IP/locking down the console, and 1% protecting consumers ... and even that only as a PR thing.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Oh, stuff it. by CelticWhisper · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Their motivation doesn't matter. The principle remains - Sony is trying to keep people from using their hardware how they want. While it's completely within Sony's rights to deny use of their network, the fact is that they flat-out stole a feature that was advertised as a major selling point for the hardware and are trying to blame one hacker for their own misdeeds.

      I've made this analogy before but I'll make it again. If someone buys a hammer and files the ends down into sharp spikes, then goes out and starts hitting people in the head with their weaponized tool, you prosecute them for causing bodily harm to other people, not for the act of modifying a hammer. Maybe you can take the modification into account as evidence of premeditation for the actual crime, but you don't treat it as a crime itself. Same thing with the PS3. If people modify their PS3s and then use the modifications to play pirated games, game makers can go after them in civil court for pirating games. However, it should never be permitted to pro^H^Hersecute people for modifying what they own.

      --
      Help protect civil rights from abuse by the TSA - visit TSA News Blog.
      http://www.tsanewsblog.com
    3. Re:Oh, stuff it. by kimvette · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I responded many years ago before the rootkit by not buying Sony products and by recommending Samsung, LG, or even Vizio screens for clients who need large wall-mounted screens in their offices, conference rooms, etc.

      I started avoided Sony when I found their replacement parts costs to be obscene when I wanted to repair my DVP-S360 DVD player - I paid a premium for the Sony for the feature set (mainly the full-feature front-panel controls) and it turned out the entire run was bad and became known for failing just after warranty. I priced out replacement parts but by then competitors were offering DVD players that could play various mpeg4 videos and the part I needed cost more than competitor offerings, and I could even get a Sony DVD player for a few dollars more.

      Another thing is in a lot of Sony products they use resistors in place of fuses, making troubleshooting more time consuming. Between that and cold solder joints in their televisions, it was obvious Sony decided to just start phoning it in, earning sales now based on their past reputation for being innovators and a quality manufacturer.

      Now they engage in shameless malfeasance (installing rootkits on hard drives of legitimate paying customers), engage in fraud (sell product based on features, e.g., OtherOS, and then take it away) and then attack the consumer directly when they try to take back control of their own hardware and help others enjoy their right of first sale.

      Then, in various products (from MP3 players to notebooks to cameras) they kept pushing their stupid MemoryStick form factor, despite the existence of very workable existing standards (CF, MMC/SD, or even XD), an obvious means to increase revenue through their own costly proprietary (yet slow and low capacity) sole-sourced accessories.

      When did this pattern start? Remember when Sony used to be pro consumer (e.g., sony walkman, VCRs and the betamax case, dual deck cassette systems, etc)? Did their anti-consumer agenda start when Sony bought up music labels?

      Frak Sony. They're not too large to fail and if enough people say ENOUGH, they will either fail or they will change their ways and bring back the Sony we once knew.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    4. Re:Oh, stuff it. by poetmatt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sony could help but dismiss as fast as possible once they realized they didn't even have a shred of a case in california. I'd bet money the settlement involves paying off all of Hotz's legal fees.

      It cracks me up that they state that hotz accepted a permanent injunction as a "loss" but it doesn't even say what the injunction was for.

      So Sony basically ran the hell away on this. I'm actually quite surprised if Hotz agreed to keep this settlement private, as it would do wonders to not have it private.

    5. Re:Oh, stuff it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, it's because they're people who have spent large amounts of money on a PS3 so that they can do one particular thing with it: play fucking video games. Nothing Hotz has done has helped them in any way, and most of it has hurt them. His original hack led to the OtherOS removal. Most of these people didn't really care then, although some pretended to.

      Then came the real working hack. First we got slews of updates as Sony tried to stay one step ahead, which was just a giant headache for people who just wanted to play a damn game. Then cheating became rampant in all the major online games, something we used a console specifically to avoid. Then the Anonymous DDoS against PSN which meant we couldn't even sign in.

      Now, you could (rightfully) claim that Hotz wasn't responsible for any of this. Sony removed OtherOS, Sony pushed out the endless updates, other wanna be crackers wrote the cheats, and Anonymous ran the DDoS without Hotz consent. But as a gamer, I don't give a fuck. A system that I truly enjoyed has become a greater and greater headache, and it all ties back directly to Hotz. And I, like a lot of gamers, just want it to go away.

    6. Re:Oh, stuff it. by tophermeyer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The rational nature of your logic is truly astounding sir.

      When presented with a rational explanation of how an invested but uninterested third party would desire simply that disruptions to their service be resolved, you've parried with the Booo-fucking-hoooo defense. Bravo. Surely this sets the stage for further meaningful discussion.

      For the record, I totally agree with the GP. I bought a PS3 for a streamlined walled garden online gaming experience. I don't want script kiddies messing with my games, and I don't want to have to sit through a 20 minute update process whenever I want to play. Which, as a result of my twice a month gaming habit, happens to be every goddamn time I turn the thing on.

    7. Re:Oh, stuff it. by tophermeyer · · Score: 3

      it should never be permitted to pro^H^Hersecute people for modifying what they own.

      But in this case Sony is clearly not interested in the hardware. Sony is interested in preventing people from modifying Sony software, which the license agreement indicates the end user definitely does not own.

      IP law is of course something that is hotly debated, especially with respect to software licenses. But under the current law Sony has a legal expectation that users not modify their software. If we don't like that we should work on modifying IP law. Actively seeking to violate it doesn't make hacker communities look noble, it makes us/them look like cheap teenagers looking to play pirated games for free.

    8. Re:Oh, stuff it. by Belial6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hotz hurt them? Is that the same logic you use when you beat your girlfriend? "Well, I wouldn't have had to hit the bitch if she didn't talk back."

      Anything Sony did to their customers is Sony's fault. Period.

    9. Re:Oh, stuff it. by tophermeyer · · Score: 5, Funny

      So we should just give up on the prospect of a "clean" gaming community and accept the intrusion of exploiters as inevitable? Hell no. That's like saying "Goatse's are inevitable so I might as well just make that my Christmas card".

      A perfectly walled garden is unattainable. But if in the pursuit of perfection we happen to maintain a fairly well manicured garden with a minimum of intrusions, I'd accept that. And considering how much I pay for the console and game, It's not unreasonable for me to expect it.

    10. Re:Oh, stuff it. by smelch · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't see what any of this has to do with Hotz, or the people who bought the console for OtherOS. You're not the only person in the world, no matter how much you paid for your system. Sony fucked the dog on this one by removing OtherOS, Hotz restored his PS3 to the way he wanted to use it, sorry his work around broke what you wanted but Sony did it. And all the bitching in the world won't make it otherwise.

      --
      If I can just reach out with my words and touch a butthole, just one, it will all be worth it.
    11. Re:Oh, stuff it. by VGPowerlord · · Score: 3

      I was going to say "your right to a walled garden stops where my right to tinker with the things I've bought begins," but I'll go farther and say that it is depressing that our roles in society as consumers has eclipsed and dominates are status in society as citizens. Because even if, at the end of the day, you recognize that your convenience is not important enough to justify legal action someone who has tinkered with what they've purchased, there are thousands and thousands of people who do not recognize that.

      Except that you intentionally bought a device that is a walled garden when there are plenty of devices of the same type that aren't walled. And then choose to bitch about it being a walled garden.

      You should try this fancy process called "voting with your wallet."

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    12. Re:Oh, stuff it. by jusdisgi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They had a reason: they didn't want to support it any more.

      Yes, that is a reason. It's not an acceptable reason at all. They billed OtherOS as a feature when they sold the console. Then they took it away. I don't give a damn what their reasons were, that's fraudulent.

      --
      Given a choice between free speech and free beer, most people will take the beer.
    13. Re:Oh, stuff it. by sortadan · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The actual settlement was posted here

      It basically says that Hotz (and associates) can't mess with Sony's stuff any more (distribute a 'circumvention device') or encourage other to do so unless congress or an other court rules that Sony's terms of service aren't legal or enforceable. If he breaks this agreement then he has to pay 10k each time, up to a cap of 250k. It also says that if there are further disputes about this from Sony they will be in a California court, and from Hotz they will be in a New Jersey court.

  2. Wow.... by grub · · Score: 4, Interesting


    I'm amazed at the comments on the linked Playstation page.

    Some folks are (almost) calling for Hotz' head. And people think Apple's fans drink the KoolAid...

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:Wow.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm amazed at the comments on the linked Playstation page.

      Some folks are (almost) calling for Hotz' head. And people think Apple's fans drink the KoolAid...

      You see people identify with products all over the place - and if you look closely at your life, you may be doing it too.

      I've seen people base their identities on what they have; which is quite a childish thing to do if you ask a developmental psychologist - basing your identity on what you do means you're stuck in adolescence by the way.

      Go to a photo site and you'll see people get all riled up if you say anything against "their" brand of camera. Same goes for power tools - you'll see Ridgid and DeWalt fanboys.

      Cars - same thing.

      Apple's fanboys have nothing on the Harley Davidson fanboys.

    2. Re:Wow.... by Shimdaddy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think it's Sony astroturfing. I think it's just gamers who see action like GeoHotz's as a gateway to piracy -- if they spend a good deal of their time in online games (which can be totally ruined by cheaters), I think their comments are understandable (though I still don't agree with them).

    3. Re:Wow.... by Sir_Sri · · Score: 3

      In their defence, the whole purpose for the vast majority of users when buying a PS3 was to have a gaming machine and some semblance of fair competition in multiplayer. The forums are naturally more full of fanboys than anywhere else. Any PS3 hack directly interferes with the notion of a fair playing session against other people. As much as it got Sony free press, PS2 linux... I'm sorry PS3 linux was only ever there to try and skirt around EU import tariffs. It didn't work. Sony really doesn't want you using PS3's for astrophysics clusters or airforce research (I helped build a cluster for astrophysics work). They sell at a loss because they want you to buy games. I'm sure the airforce cluster is great press, but the vast majority of the research just costs them money they don't get a tax break for.

      All MMO's go after botters. Shouldn't I be able to run whatever software I want on my own machine?

      The olympics go after people who have too much cold medication or whatever else. Shouldn't you be allowed to take whatever your doctor recommends for your health?

      The US congress thought steroid use in baseball was so important they dragged barry bonds and co. to washington to talk to them. This is when they are trying to deal with a trillion dollar deficit, they're willing to waste days of peoples time on steroids in baseball. And you think sony fanboys are overreacting to a hack? At least the sony fanboys are actually participating in, and affected by cheaters directly.

      Not that Sony is blameless. They should never have allowed 'other OS linux' on the PS3 in the first place, they should not have gone around threatening to sue everyone under the sun who might have been intrigued by geohot. But if you're a MMO player, you're glad to see the banhammer go out to gold farmers, botters etc. Sony is trying to balance on one hand the developers and hardcore gamers (who roughly have aligned interests in terms of security), and hacker types who should be free to toy with their own stuff, but not at the expense of the network experience of everyone else.

      Lets be honest. Sure, a PS3 jailbreak hack lets you run homebrew games, and may re-enable partially functional PS2 emulation, and brings back linux support. But it also lets you mess with the memory state of your machine and hack the game as you're running and it lets you pirated games. Homebrew has no real value on a PS3. PS2 emulation, I'm not sure on, I'm betting sony didn't just take it out for the fun of it, it's probably really hard, if not impossible to do properly and provide a good experience. Linux... well it shipped with linux so I guess they should still support it. But that goes into the next problem, which is the whole network experience of 40 odd million players (obviously not all of whom actually use the network functionality) can be easily disrupted by even a handful of people hacking which is really a serious problem. Avoiding that is sort of the point of having a console in the first place, and being able to steal stuff from the playstation store isn't exactly something I support either. I don't think pirated games (blu-ray/DVD) is a huge issue, though I could be wrong, I suppose once the hack is out here some cheap PS3 game knockoff manufacturers could pose problems if they want to get into that business.

    4. Re:Wow.... by tophermeyer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I saw someone else post this point elsewhere on the thread.

      Gamers want a smooth gaming experience. Most gamers expect that to entail an online network free from hackers exploiting games and not being required to sit through 20-30 minute updates every two weeks. The majority of gamers see Hotz as opening doors for hackers/exploiters and as being responsible for Sony's prevention measures.

      Outside of the pro-Linux "software should be free" crowds, most people just want to see Hotz go away.

    5. Re:Wow.... by Anubis+IV · · Score: 3, Funny

      Apple's fanboys have nothing on the Harley Davidson fanboys.

      Pshaw. Those bikers don't hold a candle to us iFanboys of the Cult of Steve. Their bikes aren't made of brushed aluminum, their carbon footprint is disgusting, and I think they might even use paint rather than anodization for their coloration process. How last century.

      I'd go on, but I just got a call on my iPhone. Apparently there's a social event being put on by the local Mac User Group tonight, and I need time to load my (PRODUCT) RED iPod (to show my support for eliminating AIDS in Africa, of course) with my favorite tunes. Plus, choosing which black turtleneck to wear can be such a pain sometimes. If only there was an app for that...

  3. Unsuccessful discovery? by Dachannien · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Dollars to donuts says that SCEA's ridiculous discovery campaign (under the pretense of a jurisdictional dispute) either already turned up less than they'd hoped or was starting to draw enough opposition from the subpoena targets to make this an extremely expensive battle that could never possibly achieve their desired result.

  4. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  5. Re:money back! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    It was stated from the start that any unused donations would go to the EFF, actually.

    It's a pity he settled, but given the corruption of the USA's court system compared to the free world's, and the USA's imaginary property tulipmania, it's understandable.

  6. Re:So... win/win right? by 3vi1 · · Score: 4, Insightful


    >> Sony gets to keep their closed system

    Right. Because when Hotz settled, all the keys magically disappeared from the systems of the hackers who had already downloaded them - and fail0verflow ceased to exist.

  7. Bullied into settlement. Nice. by erroneus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When you have a super-heavyweight company like Sony coming after you, issues such as "merit" simply don't matter as much as how much hurt they can put on you.

    Meanwhile, Sony wouldn't have settled so easily if they didn't have something to lose in all of this. I hope our "hero" Geohot was aware of this. It was kind of like our hero, "Lindows" who fought back against Microsoft and won, for the most part, by threatening Microsoft's trademark over Windows. So I have to wonder if anyone else can pick up this ball where Geohot left it. It's not like the secret isn't out.

  8. looking for these? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    erk: C0 CE FE 84 C2 27 F7 5B D0 7A 7E B8 46 50 9F 93 B2 38 E7 70 DA CB 9F F4 A3 88 F8 12 48 2B E2 1B
    riv: 47 EE 74 54 E4 77 4C C9 B8 96 0C 7B 59 F4 C1 4D
    pub: C2 D4 AA F3 19 35 50 19 AF 99 D4 4E 2B 58 CA 29 25 2C 89 12 3D 11 D6 21 8F 40 B1 38 CA B2 9B 71 01 F3 AE B7 2A 97 50 19
        R: 80 6E 07 8F A1 52 97 90 CE 1A AE 02 BA DD 6F AA A6 AF 74 17
        n: E1 3A 7E BC 3A CC EB 1C B5 6C C8 60 FC AB DB 6A 04 8C 55 E1
        K: BA 90 55 91 68 61 B9 77 ED CB ED 92 00 50 92 F6 6C 7A 3D 8D
      Da: C5 B2 BF A1 A4 13 DD 16 F2 6D 31 C0 F2 ED 47 20 DC FB 06 70

  9. Re:Pretty nice actually by chammy · · Score: 4, Informative

    Sony didn't plug any leak. The ps3 master keys don't go away with a ruling by some court. Softmods, homebrew, etc will still continue coming out like they were prior to the settlement. Some people might be scared but others probably still have an axe to grind.

  10. Re:Pretty nice actually by PRMan · · Score: 4, Funny

    I went to Fry's this weekend and asked the guys at the desk for hand sanitizer when I realized that I had accidentally touched a Sony product.

    --
    Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
  11. That's just a terribly poor analogy by name_already_taken · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Your analogy doesn't work. In some cases, it is illegal to modify something you own. Going with the weapon theme, a sawed-off shotgun comes to mind. Even if you have a legitimate reason to make the modification, it's still illegal, in the US, to reduce the length of a shotgun to less than 26" overall and an 18" barrel. Doesn't matter if such a modification could make the weapon more useful during legal use.

    Wait a minute - you're comparing wanting to use product features that were advertised by the manufacturer and then taken away, to something that is specifically prohibited by Federal law?

    Shotguns are not advertised as having the feature of being able to saw off the barrels to a shorter length. Many people do saw off the barrels to the legal length, but no shotgun manufacturer advertises this as a selling point, regardless of how useful it might be.

    Sony advertised that the PS3 product could both run "Other Operating Systems" such as linux, and it could also use the PlayStation Network. Those are both useful features, and they are not violations of Federal law (which your shotgun example would be).

    They then updated the software on the product (PS3) such that you could either choose to retain the Other OS functionality, or the PSN functionality, but not both. That is stealing, or if it's not, it's at least the intentional introduction of a defect into the product. Customers should either retain all the advertised functionality of the product, or be compensated for the loss of that functionality.

    Here's a car analogy:

    You buy a new Toyota Boringmobile. It gets cold where you live, so you buy it based on Toyota advertising that it has heated seats. They also advertise that is has the ability to safely transport you and your family from place to place. Those are two advertised features: 1. Safe transportation, 2. heated seats.

    You pay money for the car. Toyota gives you title to, and possession of, the car. You drive it home. You are happy.

    Toyota sends you a notice: "Bring your Boringmobile into any Toyota dealership for a free service to make sure it continues to fulfill it's promise of safe (if rather dull) transportation". There's a recall on the tires or something like that.

    You visit your Toyota dealership, and they replace the tires with new ones which work exactly like the old ones, but you needed to do that for safety's sake - Toyota's notice to you more or less said so. At the same time, Toyota disables the heated seats.

    Wait a minute! You paid for heated seats! But they don't work any more. Toyota says "Well, you agreed to that in the terms of service - it was on page 38 of the agreement you agreed to by driving to the dealership"

    But wait a minute, contract law doesn't work like that - they can't take features back without compensating you (Generally in a contract, "consideration" i.e. money, has to change hands in exchange for taking or providing goods and/or services). You take Toyota to court (most likely as part of a class action), and get either money or your heated seat functionality back.

    What has happened here is that Sony has stolen functionality from the owners of a physical product that was bought and paid for.

    The proper shotgun analogy is that you had a double-barreled shotgun and you could shoot both barrels, or just use them to store two shotgun rounds if you chose to never fire the shotgun. After an update, your Sony shotgun will now only fire the first barrel. The second barrel is now just for storing a spare round. Don't like that your gun doesn't work as advertised any more? Sorry, it had to be done so that you could continue to use Sony ammunition. Except that it didn't, did it?

    --
    Putting moderation advice in your .sig lowers your karma!
  12. Leaked PDF detailing the injunction terms by polyp2000 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Didnt take long for the details to get leaked..

    Here is the info you are looking for
    127-stipulation.pdf

    N :)

    --
    Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
  13. Re:Dear Sony staffer by jdgeorge · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And mine too, apparently. Really cowardly way to go about supporting the company, guys.

    You made an unsubstantiated, inflamatory implication in your post, accusing Sony of astroturfing their forums. As if there aren't plenty of Sony fanboys who would do that for Sony, for free.

    Your comment was modded 40% Troll (and 40% Interesting and 10% Insightful, so far) as a result. You seriously think it's Sony employees/fans who are modding your Slashdot post down?

    I'd speculate that the Troll mods on your post have nothing to do with supporting Sony.