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Microsoft TouchStudio Uses Phone To Program Phone
theodp writes "Over the weekend, Microsoft released the beta of TouchStudio, a free Windows Phone app that allows one to write programs for a phone on the very same phone, no computer required. According to the Microsoft Research project page, the work-in-progress TouchStudio aims to bring 'the excitement of the first programmable personal computers to the phone.' Among the code examples provided is a four-liner that scans a phone's music collection for songs less than three minutes long and produces a fairly slick, clickable playlist complete with track info and artwork. Easier than iPhone SDK programming, no?"
But that's jailbroken, not stock iPhone, so it doesn't count. Seriously I wish people would stop comparing jailbroke iPhone to stock Android, Windows and other phones, It's a stupid, unfair comparison.
I never trust the "look at what we just did in only 100 lines or less" examples. Such examples rarely indicate a "thought of everything" programming environment, instead usually indicating a "we made assumptions about everything and you'll either like it or spend hours hacking around it" environment.
The four line example given doesn't make it clear what database it's pulling that from, what if the user has an Amazon Cloud Music service and player? Will it find those as well?
So, it appears to be not true programming, but just script manipulation? Wouldn't that be like Tasker for Android?
http://tasker.dinglisch.net/
I wish there was a choice that said "Factually Wrong -1" when I mod.
I admit that this can't be done on a stock iPhone, but the whole innovation is that they're writing code on a mobile device, which people have been doing for years, in fact completely set up by end users.
But this will provide a way for end users to write code on their phone without having to void their warranty.
Not a new concept, mShell for Symbian
It is a very cool tool.
I don't know if mshell or other mobile programming languages have any real system integration this thing does. Sort of reminds me of hacking in AppleScript.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Reminds me of OPL (Open Programming Language) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Programming_Language that was embedded by default on the Psion Series 5mx.
I had great fun making stupid applications on that thing back in high school.
And here I am, reprogramming my phone with pliers, soldering iron, some wires, a(n) USB connector and a resistor. I must be doing something wrong.
Wow, we're catching up with what Symbian could do in 1998 (Symbian devices came with OPL, a BASIC-like language which you could code with on the device itself. Indeed, there was a booming Shareware market as people wrote their own games and utilities etc). OPL made it onto phones with the Nokia Communicator running SymbianOS 6.
Maybe next we'll have a story about being able to embed objects in the build-in word processor and spreadsheet, for example embedding a chart which can be edited OLE-like in situ just by double-tapping it...
It's depressing to see how Nokia threw all that away and dumbed-down Symbian. One step forwards and five steps backwards....
Looks kinda cool, sort of like android-scripting done right! :) I guess SL4A is a bit more flexbile in that you can choose between several languages, but the user-friendliness is not very high imo.
I'm actually somewhat surprised that Apple hasn't been supportive of a native scripting platform or programming tool. I can understand that there would be more work involved in developing the SDK, but the utility of having this feature would be tremendous. At the very least, it would inflate the number of apps in the App Store.
I know Android has this capability from third-party support; has anyone played around with this?
It matters here. Windows Phone 7 hasn't been jailbroken, even if you want to (and if you think the Chevron hack is a jailbreak, you need to turn in your geek card). And the iPhone SDK is so much richer than the WP7 SDK, that any comparison is a joke (just try networking on WP7.....you will quickly start hating your life).
The summary claims it is bringing 'the excitement of the first programmable personal computers to the phone.' No, to me it looks like it is bringing the excitement of visual basic to a phone. I got much more similar excitement from Android or iPhone comparable to the first programmable personal computers that from WP7. WP7 is an exercise in frustration if you want to start hacking at the lower layers.
Caveat: I may have trouble understanding what a beginning programmer might think of this.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Or python, perl, lua, tcl, with Qt, Gtk or Tk on the N900. I'm always amazed how companies like Microsoft and Apple manages to first push the paradigm that "less is more" (no scripting, no inventive GUI concepts, no access to phone applications, but "magic") and then they throw you breadcrumbs of what they took away and people get all excited and the news even makes it into slashdot...
Programming for Symbian in Python is pretty neat, but judging by the "TouchStudio" name I would guess this differs by being oriented toward editing on a touchscreen.
I think the question of how to effectively edit code on the go on a small portable device is an interesting question. Typing typically is pretty slow even on the few devices with a dedicated keyboard, and special characters tend to be hard to type.
I personally believe there is promise in a language with a simple structure, maybe something LISPy, intended for a more effective use of the the touch screen than letter-by-letter input. Possibly something similar to Lego's RCX code, where you drag and connect statement, control and value blocks in a pretty intuitive way.
Another possibility would be to have an adaptive keyboard with buttons for keywords and variable names that depend on context. Or program in APL, so commands are just one letter long anyway.
I'd have appreciated if they had provided a video of the editing interface.
In a fair world, refrigerators would make electricity.
Android has had more powerful scripting for quite some time: http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/
A netbook is a far less expensive and far more capable development platform than any smartphone, regardless of whether you're talking about long-term mobile contracts or unsubsidized phone purchases.
The Nokia N900 came factory default with a text editor, xterm and a python runtime with sdl bindings.
So, when can be have an ultra-portable device with on-the-go programming in mind? I'd find it very amusing/interesting to pound out a program while waiting at the bus stop.
Or python, perl, lua, tcl, with Qt, Gtk or Tk on the N900. I'm always amazed how companies like Microsoft and Apple manages to first push the paradigm that "less is more"...
How many times more iPhones ship than N900s? It makes far more commercial sense for companies to spend their finite time creating products that are easy and pleasurable for ordinary people to use than ones that have everything slashdot geeks wish for.
Microsoft gives out free development tools for netbooks too.
would be so much happier with a N900 running vi & gcc.
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
"TouchStudio aims to bring 'the excitement of the first programmable personal computers to the phone.' "
So Integer BASIC and assembler? Pinch me.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
And why is that? It's the same hardware, except that iPhone users can actually *use* their iPhone as a computer, once it's jailbroken. Why is it stupid and unfair?!
It matters, but not in the way you think.
The biggest drawback for me (not for "the market", but for me) from iOS is you can't use it to make stuff. Until you can use an operating system to make stuff, it's a toy. That's why iOS is a top gaming platform. The iPad is not a phone, so if all it's going to be is a gaming platform, then it's in a different conversation than computers. It's fine, but it's not what I need. (again, yes I know it's the number one tablet, but the number one song right now is Katy Perry and Kanye West singing "ET" and I guarantee that's not the music I need, nor is it the best music at the moment)
This is the first time since the N900 that there will be a handheld platform you can make stuff with. For it to be Microsoft is somewhat surprising. It's not going to make Windows Phone 7 number one, but I really don't care what's number one.
You are welcome on my lawn.
It's been a long time since that was my first raction to a Microsoft product, but this thing looks neat in every sense of the word -- a fine UI to throw some code together on a small display; and it reminds me of ChipWits, Lego Mindstorm and other such easily graspable perspectives on what is undeniably a very complicated topic.
The thing is, of course, how much integration this app has with the rest of the system. It can evidently hook into the file system, and I wonder if it can know, ask, or be told what other applications are installed and what they're up to (that is more or less what the HackMaster app did on PalmOS, which was exceedingly powerful yet relatively simple given that it was an event-driven (as opposed to multitasking) OS).
I say godspeed to this project, and I hope they'll allow others to follow in their footsteps.
"Good news, everyone!"
Until it can print it can't be considered a true development environment with that tiny screen because debugging usually requires a view larger than a few lines of code. Add in any palettes/widgets/etc, an error console or error messages and you don't have much real estate left. And let's face it, editing code on any smartphone has got to be much worse than editing a txt, note or email.
Any ideas how it will be able to run the code through emulators to verify it works on older or newer Windows Phone versions? It may not have to now but it will soon enough.
I constantly see comments on here about how phones and tablets are crippled devices that could never be real tools because you can't do things like programming on them. Then MS (the great and scary evil thing) makes something you can program on and now it's "lame, late, not good enough". Just come to grips with your biases please.
It can also be done in four lines of applescript:
So.. get on it apple. make applescript and smart playlists available in iPods and iPhones already...
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
This is the first time since the N900 that there will be a handheld platform you can make stuff with. For it to be Microsoft is somewhat surprising. It's not going to make Windows Phone 7 number one, but I really don't care what's number one.
You've been able to program on an Android phone for quite a while now. Android Script Engine (ASE) is an official Google project that binds Python, Perl, JRuby, Lua, BeanShell, JavaScript, Tcl, and shell to the Android API, and if you're a masochist, you can edit scripts right there on the phone.
I think I'd prefer to have a real keyboard, and a big screen, though.
It's not an either/or, you can have a user-friendly phone with advanced features
Unless the carriers don't want to carry your phone. In the United States, the big three wireless carriers have only a small selection of phones, and they tend to shun anything that gives the user too much freedom. Nokia hasn't been able to get any major U.S. carrier to take the N900 (for which I'd appreciate corrections), and buying a phone and service separately is something that the vast majority of subscribers just don't do, for various reasons. Verizon and Sprint, which use CDMA2000, are reluctant to activate any phone that they didn't sell. Even AT&T, whose GSM system in theory lets subscribers bring their own phone, still forces each subscriber to take a "free" phone whose price is included in the monthly bill instead of giving a discount on the monthly bill for not providing a phone.
I was doing cross-platform development in 1981. So long as I have proper emulation of the target machine, why should I care? The only thing I want to be able to do on the target as regards development is rapid and efficient debug.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
but the whole innovation is that they're writing code on a mobile device, which people have been doing for years
They've been doing so since laptops were invented. And if you mean mobile devices that fit in a pocket, they've been doing so since Python was ported to Pocket PC. What's the big difference?
tower [...] Total value of $30 or less.
For one thing, how does one become aware of university sales? For another, you can't use your tower on the bus while commuting to and from work, unlike my netbook.
Until it can print it can't be considered a true development environment with that tiny screen because debugging usually requires a view larger than a few lines of code.
Then how did applications for Apple II or Commodore 64 get written on a platform with a roughly 320x200 pixel screen?
Microsoft better make very certain it doesnt license TouchStudio to the catholic church. Thats the last thing they need right now.
You've been able to program on an Android phone for quite a while now. Android Script Engine
Not if you have AT&T. From the android-scripting page: "you will need to enable the 'Unknown sources' option".
Your buses don't have power outlets? That's too bad. There are a good number of buses in my city that do. I suppose that they're technically considered "BRT"-style buses, but that seems to have more to do with the body work than the routes that they run, which existed before we ever got any BRT-style buses. Anyway, you should petition your city to look into getting New Flyer D60LF BRTs. The ride is smooth, and the articulation tends to hide the technological antics you get up to at the back of the bus from the driver.
Then how did applications for Apple II or Commodore 64 get written on a platform with a roughly 320x200 pixel screen?
Very different level of programmer. The OP stated:
Teaching everyone to program on an affordable platform like this is a very neat move, and undoes the damage done by companies that provide "Mothership System" based software development.
Any programmer of the early set of micro computers ilk is not the intended target of this 'product' nor the OP's comment.
we heard you like to program, so we put the program in your phone so you can program while you phone
Even more reason that this notion of an SDK that you only can run on a jailbroke platform is a joke.
And AT&T can suck my balls for not allowing the Android Script Engine.
You are welcome on my lawn.
I challenge you to create this program on itself. Recursion is always fun.
T-Mobile
I understand that currently, T-Mobile USA offers a plan designed for people who bring their own phones. I predict that this will end once AT&T completes its acquisition of T-Mobile USA.
Until it can print it can't be considered a true development environment ... because debugging usually requires a view larger than a few lines of code
I'm not quite sure I see what printing has to do with it being a true development environment or not... I haven't printed code in years, except when doing some BPM diagram programming and needed to make notes about what wasn't viewable on the screen at one time...
Granted, maybe it's not an ideal debugging environment, but it sure sounds like a development environment to me if you can use it to create programs... Perfect? Powerful? Maybe not...
The "/. crowd" that you refer to has long since moved on. The current stable of users and contributors are primarily Wired readers and other "gadgeteer" types. Just don't tell that to the advertisers, who are being sold on the (now quaint) notion that the readership is comprised of IT Industry decision-makers.
It's not excitement unless you're programming in hand-optimized assembly like a real programmer.
I wrote Final Fantasy XI Timer for Palm entirely on my Palm Tungsten W using the PP compiler. There where several other compiler for Palm as well.
I'm also hoping to write application on my Palm Pre. I already released an update to Terminal by compiling it with gcc right on my Palm Pre.
Even more reason that this notion of an SDK that you only can run on a jailbroke platform is a joke.
I'm not quite sure how to parse that sentence but, I can assure you the ASE runs on non jailbroken Android phones. Furthermore, anybody that is going to be writing code on their phones is probably up to the task of getting the runtime on an AT&T phone.
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
Before that, PalmOS users could install PocketC on their device right out of the box. That was back in the good ol' days before the iPhone, when you didn't have to jailbreak PDAs.
Also before this, you could write Python/C/Perl/whatever apps on a Maemo phone and run it on the same phone, right out of the box.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Why go through the trouble of sshing anywhere when you can have all that perly goodness right on your phone? Since you are using connectbot, I assume you have an android phone?
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
My local uni has a surplus department. Anyone can walk in anytime, and purchase whatever's available. Currently late-model P4 and early Core2Duo class machines are available, $40-$80. Once they've been there for a certain amount of time unsold, the price drops by 60%. The last machine I got from them was a P4 3.something GHz with 1.5GB of RAM. I paid $17. It's nice 'cause it's one of those little desktops (HP, I believe) that are nearly silent.
There's also lots of beat-up furniture, and occasionally some high-power laser equipment shows up. Someday I'm gonna buy me one.
Karma: Poor (Mostly affected by lame karma-joke sigs)
I've been able to program on my phone since my Treo 650. The Nokia N900 just takes it to a whole new level.
Nathan's blog
Uh, the phone is a computer, dimwit.
Srsly, WTF?
Why doesn't the gene pool have a life guard?
I'm not sure what you're getting at. The ability to program it is also essential to me for any computing device. It's what I do, after all. But the idea of programming on a handheld is rather miserable. I hate it even when I have to use the terminal, because it is so painful to enter text. Is it not sufficient to you to be able to program it with the sdk?
Also, once again, if you're a programmer, I'm pretty sure you'll hate WP7 despite this. It is a nice start, and easy to program, but too much is missing.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Then there are the words where the n has shifted. The snake was originally a nadder, and the fruit original a norange. But the n has gone for a walk; we now have an adder and an orange.
Anyone who reports any aspect of English grammar as having "no exceptions" is more than not likely to be wrong. English is a bastard language developed by bastards - and I, as a typical English person with 100% purebred French/Jewish/Saxon/Norman ancestry, like it that way.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
will totally love this
I'm not just talking about programming. I'm talking about making anything beyond basic text editing and light photo-retouching.
I'm talking about making tools that can be used on the same platform.
Remember Hypercard? Apple had that idea once. How about basic scripting?
You are welcome on my lawn.
Sorry for not being clear. I wasn't referring to ASE, I was referring to the tools available for jailbroken iOS. Somewhere earlier someone was trying to devalue ASE and this new Windows Phone 7 SDK by saying "there have been SDK's for jailbroken iPhones".
You are welcome on my lawn.
oh ya, when you say it like that, of course. A version of Hypercard could be implemented beautifully on the iphone.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
No.
No tyrant thrives when every subject says no.