Fellow Hackers Blast Geohot For Sony Settlement

RedEaredSlider writes "The hacker who settled with Sony after the company sued him for modifying his PlayStation 3 console is getting a lot of flak for not taking the fight further. 'Night Breed' [wrote], 'So basically you settled for a job and took people's money, giving them a false hope of settling for their rights? What do you plan to do with the money that was donated to you to provide a cushion for the legal battle? I hope you will be paying all those people back since you obviously didn't live up to your word.'"

Comments

Inevitable but maybe a good thing

[Anrego]

Much as I think this battle needs to be fought geohot is an attention seeking ass, and it’s a shame he was the one who was slated fight it.

I think it’s actually a blessing in disguise that he decided to save his own skin. Not saying I wouldn’t do the same, I’ll admit it, when it comes to me or the greater good I’ll go with me and screw everyone else. However there are lots of noble idealists types who would fight themselves in prison and then keep at it and that’s who needs to be fighting this thing, not some annoying jackass.

As for donations wasn’t the plan for unused (so in this case, most of it) money to go to the EFF.

And just cause I’m already pseudo flamewar-ing, we really don’t need another Kevin Mitnick in the world.

Re:Inevitable but maybe a good thing

[Higaran]

I agree, in theory I'd love to take on sony with this kind of thing. But when the shit hits the fan and you have a lawyer telling you that you could lose your house and everything you've worked your whole life for then your I'd probably save my own skin too. Anyone that says the guy didn't do enough is an idiot, and they can only say that because they've never been anywhere near that kind of a situation. Companies like $ony have armies of laywers and will look for loopholes that would probably include lawsuits for anyone you've ever met your entire life, no one need that kind of hassle in thier lives. So I think everyone should just let the guy be, he's been trough enough already, and what he did do is alot more than most people.

Re:Inevitable but maybe a good thing

[MoonBuggy]

All of what you say is entirely reasonable (with the possible exception of $ony), but it discounts the context; Hotz said, when taking donations: "...this case isn't about me. Clearly I am not being sued because of something I have that Sony wants, I am being sued in order to send a message that Sony is not to be messed with. But if I(and all codefendants likewise) actually win this, we have the power to send a much stronger message back. That consumers have rights, and we aren't afraid to stand up for them." and "My attempts at humor aside, I do take this whole matter very seriously. Again, it's not about me, I was on the verge of quitting this stuff last June, and I would hate to be the one who sets a reputation for hackers that all a company has to do is sue us and we back down. In fact, I want the opposite reputation set, that the more a company tries to abuse the legal system, the harder we rally back.".

He talked big, he took money, and then he shied away when he realised that Sony could quite possibly crush him. I think it's disgusting that they can do so, and I think it's quite understandable that he didn't want to take the risk, but the fact remains that he was fairly misleading in what he said. It wasn't "please help me survive until I can make Sony leave me alone" it was "fuck them, I'm fighting back, I'll make them pay, and I want you to help". I don't really blame him for backing down, but I do think those who donated have a reasonable right to feel aggrieved, and some level of apology and explanation from Hotz would probably be appropriate.

Armchair Hackers

[Anonymous Coward]

It's easy to criticize GeoHot when you're not the one being sued by one of the largest corporations in the world. I feel bad for GeoHot, it seems like no matter what he does and how he tries to help -- and make no mistake, he has helped immensely on many projects -- he keeps getting blasted by haters.

Re:Armchair Hackers

[halivar]

The best part is how the haters aren't the ones who were being sued. They have no vested interest, and nothing to lose. Screw them.

Re:Armchair Hackers

[cptdondo]

+1

Next time you're looking down the barrel of a gun, or at a multi-billion dollar company out to crush you, tell me how brave you're going to be.

It's easy to watch an action flick and say "I can do that" and another thing not to shit yourself when you hear the bullet whiz by before you hear the crack of the rifle.

Re:Armchair Hackers

[Anonymous Coward]

It's easy to criticize GeoHot when you're not the one being sued by one of the largest corporations in the world. I feel bad for GeoHot, it seems like no matter what he does and how he tries to help -- and make no mistake, he has helped immensely on many projects -- he keeps getting blasted by haters.

Perhaps geohot keeps getting blasted by haters because he makes himself so easy to hate, as he is, in fact, a douchebag.

The legal documents pertaining to his case read like some sort of self-aggrandizing group wank, referring to himself as a "prodigy" of some sort. Sorry, but George is a prodigy in no field other than taking the LEGO Bricks that other hackers have so kindly molded for him, then popping them together and subsequently claiming that not only did he build the entire model from scratch, he painstakingly molded the plastic using rainbows and sunshine, and wrote the manual using calligraphy on papyrus.

Need I point out that it wasn't until Team Twiizers complained - and rightly so - that geohot was taking 100% of the credit for the Jailbreak exploit that he finally acknowledged on his site that maybe he didn't do it single-handedly? Then, after beating his chest to every media outlet that would listen about how HE was the one who completely blew open the PS3, he got sued by Sony - I call it karmic justice, if not legal or moral - and suddenly he's every hacker's favorite martyr, with everyone happily glossing over the fact that it was Team Twiizers that figured out the key exploit in the first place.

The simple fact of the matter is that geohot is nothing more than an attention-seeking douchebag who, when required to face consequences for his actions - something apparently foreign to people under the age of 25 nowadays - ran *screaming* to a lawyer with his Backpedal-O-Meter burying the needle at the far end of the scale.

He is scum, plain and simple, and I would have not lost a blink of sleep if he found himself rotting in the modern equivalent of debtor's prison until the heat death of the universe. He blatantly rips off other peoples' research without giving credit, he tries to portray himself as some utterly transparent martyr, and when it comes to put-up-or-shut-up, he doesn't even have the stones to try to defend his sand castle against the incoming tide.

At the end of it all, though, I suppose I got what *I* want out of the entire thing - he gets to shut the hell up about this whole PS3 debacle and Team Twiizers is unaffected by Sony's suit, so the real hackers behind it all can continue doing what they've been doing, and the loud-mouthed con artist gets gagged.

Re:Armchair Hackers

[BitZtream]

Depends on whether it was civil or criminal. If it's criminal I'd sell out. If it's civil once you declare bankruptcy then it should be all over. You usually get to keep your house and cars in bankruptcy.

You clearly have no idea what happens in bankruptcy.

You might get to keep your house, depends on what state its in and how much its worth. You most certainly may be forced to sell it and move to something more modest. Same goes for the car and pretty much every other posession you own.

Bankruptcy is NOT a get of jail free card, and its been made worse recently to cut down on the number of idiots like yourself who try to use it as such. Its doubtful he would even qualify for it.

Then ... to top it off ... the court can simply say 'you don't get out of this by filing bankruptcy' and he's done. Depending on the laws where the trial was taking case, it may already legally be that way by state law.

To the EFF

[KingAlanI]

Wasn't it pointed out in the last GeoHot story several times that unused donations would be sent on over to the EFF?

Re:To the EFF

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem is that people didnt donate to him so that he could settle with sony. people donated because it was a fight to set a precident and they were lead to believe by Geohot that he was going to fight $ony until the end. now people have less $$ in their accounts and nothing to show for it.

Re:this is a

[clang_jangle]

Idealistic people tend to spend a lot of time being confused about how to deal with reality, which is not the slightest bit idealistic. When it's someone else's painful consequences, ideals rule. When it's your own, well, different story. Lots of people will jump in with accusations of "selling out", "siding with the man", etc. That's all pretty much delusional though.

If they want a fight...

[mseeger]

If they want a fight, they are invited to post the secret key on their own web site (including a manual how to use it), add their contact details and wait for Sony (or their lawyers) to come for them. Then they can show how brave they are...

CU, Martin

If GH's work and code is in the wild...

[gatkinso]

...then the whole settlement is moot.

A possibility

[Anonymous Coward]

Geohot can't talk much about why he settled, but his replies on his blog suggests a plausible reason: he realized he was unlikely to win the case (suggesting that the judge was biased) and chose to settle to avoid setting a legal precedent.

Get off your high horses

[timholman]

What, so people are disappointed that Geohot didn't wreck his life to fulfill their armchair fantasies? "I gave you $20, and you won't ruin your life to make me happy? You SUCK, Geohot!"

Get real. I've had some dealings in civil cases, and let me say that there are few things in this world as life-destroying and gut-wrenching as being a defendant in a civil case against a plaintiff with lots of money and a willingness to do whatever it takes to crush you.

It is very easy for people with l33t nicknames to criticize Geohot behind the safety of an anonymous computer account. It is another to sit in a room with a group of highly paid lawyers who explain to you in excruciating detail how your life will be made a living hell if you don't cooperate.

Geohot got in over his head, and wisely decided to settle and get on with his life. If Geohot's critics want to fight the good fight instead, all they have to do is repost his techniques on a web page of their own, and wait for Sony to come calling. Somehow I don't think that's gonna happen.

Re:Get off your high horses

[spire3661]

All that is great unless you consider statements from the Geo himself.

"They picked the wrong guy to sue"

"Out of business is jail for me and you're suing me civilly"

"I want the settlement papers to contain the words OtherOS and an apology from Sony"

Now can you see why people are disappointed? He talked ALOT of smack and then backed out. I think he is due some deserved criticism. What concerns me most is that the MAJORITY of this discussion is about the donation money and not about the true issues of the matter.

Title is wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Title should be: "Script Kiddies Blast Actual Hacker Geohot For Sony Settlement".

Re:this is a

[DurendalMac]

It's a bunch of whining from a bunch of neckbeards who are crying that someone else didn't spend godawful amounts of time and money in court. They'd be singing a different tune if they were the one on the other end of Sony's lawyers.

Re:this is a

[poetmatt]

Actually it's pretty freakin accurate. He gave up to just get the lawsuit over, and took substantial hits to his own freedoms.

Geohot essentially "won", but the settlement was a joke, especially considering it roughly translates to him accepting an unrealistic permanent injunction. Really, not supporting "PS3 infringing activities" that aren't specified? Say it ain't so!

1. Engaging in any unauthorized access to any SONY PRODUCT under the law
      2. Engaging in any unauthorized access to any SONY PRODUCT under the terms of any SCEA or SCEA AFFILIATES' license agreement or terms of use applicable to that SONY PRODUCT, whether or not Hotz has accepted such agreement or terms of use, including without limitation:
                  1. reverse engineering, decompiling, or disassembling any portion of the Sony Product
                  2. using any tools to bypass, disable, or circumvent any encryption, security, or authentication mechanism in the Sony Product;
                  3. using any hardware or softare to cause the Sony Product to accept or use unauthorized, illegal or pirated softare or hardware; and
                  4. exploiting any Sony Product to design, develop, update or distribute unauthorized softare or hardware for use with the Sony Product.
                    * If any term of such SCEA or SCEA Affilates' license agreement or terms of use applicable to that Sony Product shall be determined by Congress or by a court of law in a final non-appealable decision in an action to which SCEA or an SCEA Affiliate is a party to be illegal and unenforceable, then such term shall not be binding on Hotz.
      3. CIRCUMVENTING any of the TPMs or security in any SONY PRODUCT;
      4. TRAFFICKING in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof that, at the time of Hotz's trafficking, circumvents any of the TPMs or security in any SONY PRODUCT, including but not limited to the Ellptical Curve Signature Algorithm ("ECDSA") Keys, encryption and/or decryption keys, dePKG firmware decrypter program, Signing Tools, 3.55 Firmware Jailbreak, and/or any other technologies that enable unauthorized access to and/or copying of the PS3 System and/or enable compatibility of unauthorized copies of other copyrighted works with the PS3 System.
      5. Distributing or posting any SCEA or SCEA Affiliates' confidential or proprietary information relating to any SONY PRODUCT;
      6. Knowingly assisting or inducing others to engage in any of the conduct set forth in A-E above solely directed at any SONY PRODUCT or that otherwise constitutes contributory liabilty under the law.

He had this case in the bag from the issues at hand, and instead settled giving Sony a major advantage. The facts were on his side bigtime unless there is something we don't know about.

Re:Get Hotz off his high horse first.

[timholman]

No offense - but wasn't it Hotz himself that went into this with a battle cry and asked for donations for his defense and so forth and so on?
If he hadn't done that - if he had "wisely decided" to immediately go for a settlement, people might have still called him a pussy (as that's what some people do) - but at least they wouldn't have much reason for calling him out on his behavior.

Sure, when Mr. Hotz got that first cease-and-desist letter, I'm sure he thought: "I gonna beat these assholes! My fellow hackers will rally to help me!" Maybe he reads Slashdot - no doubt he could have picked up lots of bogus bravado from this crowd.

And then he had one of those "growing up" epiphanies that most 20- and 21-year-olds go through, where you realize that empty words of support mean nothing, and that while many will cheer you on as you march into the lion's den, damn few will stand by you against the lions.

As for the donations, I doubt that Geohot collected enough money to pay for a week of a good lawyer's time, much less enough to fight a real court battle. If his attorney worked pro bono, maybe he'll have something left to give to the EFF - but frankly, I wouldn't count on it.

Geohot learned a hard lesson about the real world, and wisely opted not to ruin his own life just to make a lot of strangers happy. I don't fault him one bit.

Re:this is a

[Jeff DeMaagd]

The main complaint is that he was asking for donations to fight this, and then more or less bailed on the fight. That's the only valid complaint in my opinion, then again, we don't know if and how much money was raised. It pays to be wary of donating to a legal defense fund, you can't be certain it will be spent the way you want it to be spent.

Re:Settlement terms confidential

[BitZtream]

You also didn't see the fight he was facing.

Fighting the good fight is only logical if you have a chance of winning.

Suicide is ALWAYS stupid, regardless of why you donated money to him.

Re:this is a

[shaunbr]

The facts may have been on his side, but there's one thing that Sony has that he doesn't -- an endless pool of money and lawyers to make his life hell. Sure, the community thinks they're doing a good job by sending him a buck here or there for his legal defense fund, but it costs more than a couch full of pocket change to pay for a reasonable defense. Unless you suggest that he take a serious (and likely) risk of committing himself to a lifetime of poverty due to a crushing multi-million dollar loss in court (which by that point I doubt anyone in the 'community' would actually stand by him anymore, lest of all give him money), taking the settlement was the smart thing to do. Relatively speaking, those restrictions aren't even that severe; had he let this go to court, he'd be lucky if he could afford a Sony product to hack ever again.

It's easy to play Internet Tough Guy when you're not staring down the barrel of a court summons - I guarantee that all of you would have 'caved' the same way. I know I would have.

Re:this is a

[bluefoxlucid]

Yes, he paid for and owns a machine which he has full rights to mulch up with a wood chipper. It is illegal for him to make it process certain electronic signals, for example to run Linux locally. One day your home PC will have a TPM, and it will be illegal for you to hack it to bypass the TPM and run your own custom OS, too.

Lawsuits are not fun

[DrStrange66]

Even if you are in the right lawsuits are very stressful situations. I recently battled my HOA for nearly 2 years. I won but at a cost. The lawsuit was all I could think about. My work suffered, my family suffered, my mental stability suffered, etc. I can fully understand why people choose to settle. To those people that are hating on Geohot... why don't they sue Sony for whatever it is they believe in?

Re:this is a

[jmac_the_man]

George Hotz had just graduated high school when he did the iPhone hack in 2007. I remember him being hailed as famous and everything when he came to RIT. (I was news editor of the magazine there at this point; we were trying to get him to do an interview with us.)

Anyway, he was a freshman the year after I was, and I'm 23. He's no more than 21/22. It's theoretically possible he has a family, but given his age and the fact that he's the subject of a Slashdot story, I doubt it.

Re:this is a

[StikyPad]

I suspect that he didn't prepare for this eventuality as well as, say, Compaq did when reverse engineering the IBM BIOS, and that there was damning evidence out there or on his own hard drives. Maybe he has or had a PSN account, or maybe he did in fact profit from this hacking somehow. Just because he swore to the contrary in his affidavit(s) doesn't make it so, and we have no more reason to believe him than to believe any random person off the street.

What we really need is a corporation, formed by interested parties, with the sole raison d'etre of undertaking the next generation of hacks on our behalf. It can be a thorn in the side of onerous, overbearing multinational corporations, and if it's sued out of existence it won't matter one bit; just turn around and form a new one. It's time to fight fire with fire.

Re:this is a

[Hatta]

The facts were on his side bigtime unless there is something we don't know about.

The biggest fact not on his side is that Sony is a multi-billion dollar international conglomerate, and he's just a guy.