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Red Hat Uncloaks 'Java Killer': the Ceylon Project
talawahdotnet writes "Gavin King of Red Hat/Hibernate/Seam fame recently unveiled the top secret project that he has been working on over the past two years, a new language and SDK designed to replace Java in the enterprise. The project came out of hiding without much fanfare or publicity at QCon Beijing in a keynote titled 'The Ceylon Project — the next generation of Java language?'"
I personally don't think it's ambitious at all. Their syntax and grammar only differ slightly from regular Java. Plus the fact that they're targeting the JVM means that they only need to patch javac (and javadoc) to make a new language. Despite how humongous the JDK is, the java compiler itself is relatively lean (only 140KLOC).
My favorite part about the post is that he points to C# as an example of a "good" language, as if C# and Java were not essentially the same language. The JVM actually isn't all that bad-- it's mature, bug-free, and reasonably fast. But that's beside the point-- the JVM is like x86. Nobody* cares about the instruction set; they care about language features, and whether those features work quickly. And both the Java VM and Microsoft's .NET runtime have numerous options: IronRuby for .NET and JRuby for JVM, IronPython for .NET and Jython for JVM, Clojure, F#, yadda, yadda.
Reinventing the VM is a waste of time. And there are tons of languages to choose from for those VMs. So I don't quite see the point of this. The slides appear to be slashdotted, and just from the post's talking points... yawn.
* "nobody" here should be read as "very few", i.e., mostly people who write JIT compilers and not people who write enterprise code.
It's a reference to the type of tea [wikipedia.org], as an alternative to Java—tea vs. coffee, get it?
You have obviously never been on a *huge* software development project. The reason you use accessors and mutators (getters & setters) is so you can change the underlying representation without breaking all the uses in you million lines of code.I've had to make changes to underlying representation without breaking th client contract (signature). This is why such practices are used (plus, these methods are auto-generated by most tools anyway).
Well, in Ruby (which is a fully OOPL) getters and setters are used too, but the language syntax allows you to define methods such as 'property' and 'property=' so that setters and getters look exactly like direct access, and much less verbose than the dreadful getPropX() and setPropX() methods you usually have in Java or C++.
"I'm never quite so stupid as when I'm being smart" (Linus van Pelt)
Java needs to be replaced. I have taught Java for years, because many colleges think it is a good first language to learn. Only recently have I actually attempted to develop commercial quality applications in it. Frankly, Java sucks big green ones. Generic types (with type-erasure) are a total hack, denying the running code valuable information. Abstract classes are only half-implemented, since you cannot have abstract static methods (e.g., factory methods). Meta-programming in Java is extremely limited - Reflection covers a few aspects, but even these are very awkward to use. Exception handling is awkward, there is no multiple inheritance, not all types are objects - hacked with boxing and unboxing. And so on, and so forth, and so on...
The chances of this language going anywhere are small. Anyone who has enjoyed studying compilers has written (or at least imagined) their own language. Creating new languages is fun, lots of people do it, and mostly - even if they are good - the languages disappear down a deep, dark hole. Success for a language requires a lot of support from many different parts of the IT community: lots of libraries, job prospects, more libraries, books, courses, real world applications, and did I mention code libraries? There are zillions of languages out there, many of them better than Java. Unfortunately, none of them to date have gotten the necessary support. What are the chances that this language will be different?
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.