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Jesse Jackson, Jr. Pins US Job Losses On iPad

theodp writes "Illinois Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. went on an anti-technology rant on Friday on the floor of Congress, blaming the iPad for eliminating thousands of American jobs. 'Why do you need to go to Borders anymore?' asked Jackson. 'Why do you need to go to Barnes & Noble? Buy an iPad, download your book, download your newspaper, download your magazine.' Jackson continued: 'What becomes of publishing companies and publishing company jobs? And what becomes of bookstores and librarians and all of the jobs associated with paper? Well, in the not too distant future, such jobs simply will not exist. Steve Jobs is doing pretty well. He's created the iPad. Certainly, it has made life more efficient for Americans, but the iPad is produced in China. It is not produced here in the United States."

17 of 628 comments (clear)

  1. Why go to Barnes & Noble by Zaphod+The+42nd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Where are you going to buy the e-books for your iPad? They don't come from thin air, and the iPad doesn't write articles itself. Just because we've moved from brick-and-mortar distribution to digital distribution doesn't mean ANY jobs were lost, they were just MOVED.

    Seriously, this made me sick to read. Rep. Jackson needs to keep his mouth shut on subjects he knows nothing about.

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    1. Re:Why go to Barnes & Noble by TubeSteak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Just because we've moved from brick-and-mortar distribution to digital distribution doesn't mean ANY jobs were lost, they were just MOVED.

      Uhh... moved where?
      The number of people required to run a datacenter 24/7 is a fraction of those required to run a bookstore, much less the supply chain that feeds the bookstore.

      The bookstore industry is facing a serious contraction/consolidation.
      They aren't going away, but there won't be as many bookstores around.

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    2. Re:Why go to Barnes & Noble by JMZero · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Uhh... moved where?

      At best, you're making a "broken windows" argument. Perhaps we could make book distribution even less efficient, requiring more people to be involved? Would that be positive?

      But even that's missing the point. The important job, the one we should focus on here, isn't "clerk at bookstore", it's "author". Because books are costly to produce, because money from sales has to be divided among so many, and because there is limited shelf space at a book store, very few people can make a living as an author. With e-books, there's the potential for many more authors to find niches, and I think the total money value of the industry could grow significantly as the breadth of subject matter, sales logistics, and means of discovery improves.

      Jobs generating ideas are the future, and having an efficient, vibrant market for books is great for that.

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    3. Re:Why go to Barnes & Noble by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      yup. moved.

      overseas.

      THAT was his point. and as much as I dislike the guy, he was right, on that point.

      if we don't help ourselves, no one else will.

      the overseas labor game is one we can't win and the terms are not fair yet we continue to try to play using fair rules. we lose every time. gee ....

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    4. Re:Why go to Barnes & Noble by AK+Marc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Rather ask WHY is it more commercially viable for American companies to actually produce *almost everything* in {some random foreign country}.

      Because everyone knows and no one wants to discuss it. The number one cause is environmental/safety regulations. Want lead in your toys? Lead in your water? Because that's what happens when there are no regulations. And that's a large part of the cost of manufacturing in the US. Labor counts, but not as much as you'd think. Automation can correct for much of that, but automation isn't needed as much in areas where the cost of labor is small enough. But all those numbers are well known. In fact, the answer is as simple as one simple law. Just tax imports for the cost of the externalities in the US that aren't accounted for in the country in question.

  2. Evolve or get out of the way by whisper_jeff · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've worked in the publishing industry. I have no sympathy for people who are holding on to the past with both hands, fiercely fighting for things to not change. Things change over time. Adapt. Evolve. Move forward. If you fail to do so, you'll be left behind and forgotten. Blaming the iPad or the internet or anything of the sort is foolish. Times change - find the new marketable product (hint: it's probably digital), make that, and profit.

    Evolve or get out of the way for those who are willing to move into the future.

    1. Re:Evolve or get out of the way by uofitorn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm an avid reader. Occasionally I'll dip into fantasy or sci-fi where trilogies are more likely to be found. I've never been so impatient that I couldn't wait an "hour or so" to get to another title.

      To me, the BIG disadvantage of an e-reader is this:

      When Amazon goes belly up in a few (or 45 years) where will my books be? Next to me I have a 1887 4 volume edition of Les Miserable and I am confident that no matter what happens to the Little, Brown and Company publishing house, my book isn't going to go poof on my nightstand while I'm brushing my teeth.

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  3. Not anti-tech necessarily by orkysoft · · Score: 5, Insightful

    His rant can also be interpreted as against globalization instead of against technology. All the people who will become lose their jobs now that more and more brick-and-mortar stores are being obsoleted by websites, they're not getting jobs in electronics factories, since the electronic devices are almost all made in low-wage countries these days.

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    I suffer from attention surplus disorder.
  4. Save the horse whip makers! by Myji+Humoz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the odd case that anyone thinks Jesse Jackson Jr. has anything close to a valid point:

    1) Though jobs for some brick and mortar retailers are lost, the loss is due to a structural change in the market induced by increasing digitization rather than through any one product. Horse buggy makers went out of business when automobiles came out, and much the same rhetoric was spewed to attack the manufacturers of cars.

    2) China makes the iPads. True, but manufacturing is no longer a $40+benefits job with enough seniority. Gone for the foreseeable future are high paying manufacturing jobs that we as a nation want to focus on. The success of the IPad has spurred other technology companies to push their own tablets onto market. What does that mean? The tech companies hire more mechanical/electrical/computer/systems engineers, computer/materials scientists, programmers, designers, and production line developers. Those workers produce far more "value" to an economy than a factory worker in a mass production line. Ask a Foxxcomm worker (the guys who make iPads and iPods) if they'd rather be working in a Chinese factory or at the Apple headquarters, and guess what? They'd rather be an engineer.

    3) Librarians aren't useful because the buildings they're in have information. They're highly useful because they can advise us where to find the relevant information. The librarians at my university aren't there to restock books or charge late fees. They're hired because they can help students track down critical papers, research vital bits of information, and educate them about how to find the right kind of sources. Brick and mortar stores are useful because they offer a tactile shopping experience that online systems can't seem to replicate yet. Same idea: physical locations and people offer have value added characteristics.

    4) There are many things to blame for the job market pains in the United States. I don't think anyone is educated enough to really understand the "true" driving factors, but you know what? I sincerely doubt that stiffing innovation, creativity, and technological development is the way to go.

    Actually sorry, I'm wrong. On behalf of the *IAA cabal and the Chinese Council for American Advisement, I suggest that we focus all of our governmental energy on stopping piracy of songs and movies instead of nurturing markets and funding basic science. If we can stop all illegal firesharing, we can save up to $13 trillion a year in damages!! That's several times more than the technology market makes in a year!

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  5. Re:Even more strange by tripleevenfall · · Score: 5, Insightful

    He's a politician, he says what benefits him the most in that moment.

    But his complaints are not totally without merit.

    If he were smarter his point would be that all jobs have life cycles, and we need to develop and innovate so that we can place people in jobs that are ahead of the curve instead of behind.

    It's like everyone clammoring to bail out GM and save a bunch of low skill jobs that are going nowhere but overseas in the future anyway. It's a losing battle with the wrong objective.

    But from the left, his policies are reactive rather than proactive. Proactive would be getting out in front and stopping things that stifle innovation, like hostile business environments. Instead, he wants us (if he could expand, I'd wager) to outlaw things and restrict things and tariff things after the fact.

    Should we want to be one step ahead, or one step behind?

  6. anti-science - what does he expect? by rcpitt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    All this right after I read Wired Science's article on 7 science-education battlegrounds of 2011 If the US wants to be effective in technology they have to stop being stupid in education - otherwise we Canadians, along with the rest of the world, will beat the crap out of you.

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    and didn't get it
  7. Re:I'm sorry Mr. Jackson by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "There has grown in the minds of certain groups in this country the idea that just because a man or corporation has made a profit out of the public for a number of years, the government and the courts are charged with guaranteeing such a profit in the future, even in the face of changing circumstances and contrary to public interest. This strange doctrine is supported by neither statute or common law. Neither corporations or individuals have the right to come into court and ask that the clock of history be stopped, or turned back." - Heinlein, Life Line, 1939

    (Actually read that story yesterday. On real paper.)

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    No sig today...
  8. Re:I'm sorry Mr. Jackson by DurendalMac · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This guy is a grade A moron and lunatic. Only a few months ago he gave a speech on how the US government should pay for everything for everyone, and he even said iPods or iPads! How this yahoo keeps getting elected is beyond me. He's dumber than a box of hammers and batshit crazy.

  9. Simplistic lecturing by happyhamster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Thanks for simplistic high school level economics lecture. You are conveniently omitting the factor of scale. One or two orders of magnitude of manufacturing jobs are lost for every "mechanical/electrical/computer/systems engineer" job created. Also, manufacturing jobs can be made attractive again if you slap punishing tariffs on chinese dumping and corporations that facilitate it.

    I don't think anyone argues about complete halt of technological progress, but making it orderly and less harmful to society is certainly needed. Instead of blindly throwing people on the street by the million and giving them the moronic advice to "adapt", we should provide those people with a few years of social support and "useful" job training, paid for largely by the companies doing the firing. We are supposedly living in a human society and not in the jungle.

  10. Re:As fanbois queue in the dark, Jobs makes millio by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not only that, but anyone with the leisure to sit around posting leftist drivel on their very own 3000 MHz computer is very "rich," from the perspective of several billion people.

    Someone who incites a class struggle in the US would have to be delusional to think that they'd actually come out ahead if such a thing came to pass. The GP may picture himself among the oppressed masses at the bottom of the pyramid of capitalism, but he's standing on the shoulders of a lot of little people, himself.

  11. Re:Even more strange by williamhb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's like everyone clammoring to bail out GM and save a bunch of low skill jobs that are going nowhere but overseas in the future anyway. It's a losing battle with the wrong objective.

    Actually that's not true in two ways.

    First, I always think it's remarkably arrogant that we label manufacturing jobs "low-skill". My grandfather was a toolmaker in an aeroplane factory in World War 2. Imagine a job swap between us and see think which would be the bigger disaster: him trying to do some academic research and put a paper into a conference, or me trying to actually physically build an aeroplane good enough that your life could depend on it while the luftwaffe try to shoot you down. But for some reason it's his job that would be classified as "blue collar" and "low-skill".

    The second is that labour costs are much less of an impetus for moving "low-skill" jobs than they used to be. Wages in China have risen such that many companies have thought about moving manufacturing away to lower-wage countries like Bangladesh, etc. But the skills and infrastructure needed to run serious industrial scale manufacturing are not present there making business to difficult. It's no longer worth the saving. As globalisation equalises costs of living, the factories are going to stop playing musical chairs with countries, and start sticking where the capacity and infrastructure has been built up. And right now, regardless of costs, that is China because the US has been slashing and burning its manufacturing skills and capacity.

  12. The world is not run by dumb people. by Oxford_Comma_Lover · · Score: 5, Insightful

    > I don't think people, overall, are that smart. the world seems to be run by 'the people of walmart'.

    Some people are good at what they're trained for. A lot of people are "smart," or at least effective, in at least a few specific tasks. And don't make the mistake of assuming people working or shopping at walmart aren't intelligent, sometimes in their own way at their own tasks, sometimes like Dilbert's great garbage man.

    The world is definitely *run* by smart people. They may not be as smart as engineers--it depends on the particular "runner" and the engineer--but they are much smarter than your average bear. The people on the Hill and in the White House were in the top 10% of their high schools. A lot of them are assholes. A lot of them are nice people. They all have learned certain skill sets. The elected ones have to develop skill sets that make them seem stupid to smart people. They also, mostly, have do mean things because empirically, mean things WORK. Lying to the public--spin--works. Going negative in campaigning works. If you don't do it, you're at a huge disadvantage. Without consensus not to do it, pretty much everyone does it.

    Businesspeople vary in intelligence. The best are usually quite intelligence. Again, they can be good people or not. They tend to think differently than you or I.

    "People, overall," don't run the world--they accept the world, or they rise up. Their needs have been catered to for millenia by those running things. The Romans for control of the senate--panem et circenses--the nations following the infantry revolution at the Battle of Agincourt in 1415, and the gunpowder revolution.

    There are also thugs. A lot of thugs in power. Warlords, torturers, thieves and brigangs and thugs who somehow have nations behind them. Not so much in the West. But in Africa, in Chechneya, many places. And of course local crime lords.

    Some of them are quite personable. Some are quite intelligent. Others are puppets of other people who are intelligent. They may not have formal schooling, or they may. And of course, sometimes they're just a bully. But it usually takes a bully with intelligence to get a nation behind him. Even a crappy nation.

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