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Revolution of the Science Fiction Authors

An anonymous reader writes "85 science fiction authors including Iain M Banks, Larry Niven, Stephen Hunt, Greg Bear and Michael Moorcock have written an open letter of protest to the BBC complaining of disrespect towards the genre, when, during an entire day of coverage of fiction by the BBC, not a single SF, fantasy or horror book was looked at. Here's the original article that sparked the open letter, along with updates. The British prime minister, David Cameron, when asked to comment, said that he doesn't have a favorite genre, so I guess he's not taking Greg Bear books to bed either!"

33 of 292 comments (clear)

  1. To mainstream lit, sci fi is like comic books by spun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Something for children, adolescents, and overgrown man-children who lack the sophistication to appreciate the subtle beauty of the real world. Never mind that that is simply not true, as the genre includes some of the most beautiful and mature artistic works ever published. People who are into "literature" as opposed to "reading books" tend to be elitist snobs.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    1. Re:To mainstream lit, sci fi is like comic books by spun · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's because realistic utopias without external threats would hold absolutely no dramatic tension. You could basically write, "And they all lived happily ever after" and be done with it. So utopias in fiction have to be either false utopias, or faced with a credible existential threat.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    2. Re:To mainstream lit, sci fi is like comic books by MrHanky · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You know what's funny? The fact that you're as condescending towards "mainstream lit" as you yourself imagine it is towards you. Project much?

    3. Re:To mainstream lit, sci fi is like comic books by Noughmad · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No. To what's currently mainstream, SciFi is, like a large majority of good literature, too long, too complicated, and boring.

      What is "mainstream" (as in, what I see on display in book stores) are "Become an Einstein in one week while losing 50 pounds and making tons of money", some cooking, and books about orgasms.

      --
      PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
    4. Re:To mainstream lit, sci fi is like comic books by FranckMartin · · Score: 4, Funny

      And they were able to make us love the world of Star Trek: A militarist state where money does not exist, but all is planned for the benefit of the people.

      Also known as USSR.

      --
      Franck Martin
      Avonsys
    5. Re:To mainstream lit, sci fi is like comic books by spun · · Score: 2

      The Federation is a post scarcity society. Any post scarcity society where money still exists would be more of a totalitarian nightmare than a utopia. And nothing about any of the stories implies the Federation is a military state, that just happens to be the only part with any dramatic tension (see above.)

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    6. Re:To mainstream lit, sci fi is like comic books by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Never mind that that is simply not true, as the genre includes some of the most beautiful and mature artistic works ever published.

      When the authors win Nobel Prizes (eg. Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Doris Lessing), then it's not considered science fiction or fantasy, then it is literature.

      They do this because the ethos of the literary critic is grounded in resentment. They resent not having talent themselves, they resent the lack of attention given to their field, and they greatly resent how the scientific rationalist worldview does not consider mere rhetoric as a valid form of argument. They value opinion over evidence, and in that respect they are no different than the talking heads on Fox News. You must flatter them and their ideology before they will accept your fantastic literature as literature.

      What they're too stupid to comprehend is that all literature descends from fantasy. Keeping stories plausible is a modern invention. In every culture, the original fiction always involved gods, magic, and feats of heroism.

    7. Re:To mainstream lit, sci fi is like comic books by Canazza · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What about the really old-school authors?
      Asimov's End of Eternity and The Gods Themselves are two of my favourite books (although they haven't aged well), and Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 is still scarily relevant today as it was when it was written (And is a damn site less anachronistic than Asimov's future predictions) *and* Fahrenheit 451 has some excellent characterisation, is choc full of the allusions and metaphors that lit-lovers seem to gobble up.
      Before he died, Arthur C Clarke did some colabs with Stephen Baxter and Time's Eye is one of my favourite reads of the last decade. At its core it's is an exploration and deconstruction of what people of all ages past expected of the future, and how they react when they actually see it (and not in a goofy 'Bill and Ted' way, this is Arthur C Clarke after all)

      At the very least Fahrenheit 451 should have been mentioned. I still hold that above 1984 as the most portentous prediction in sci-fi, plus, it's got government sanctioned arson and that's always a bonus.

      --
      It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
    8. Re:To mainstream lit, sci fi is like comic books by Belial6 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That has been made more painfully clear to me recently. My 6 year old son, (now 7) joined a book club a few months before his birthday. When discussing the books that would be on the agenda, our suggestions of age appropriate books like "The Magic Tree House" series were dismissed because the other parents wanted it to be more focused on "good literature". They were suggesting books like Moby Dick. This is for a group of readers between the ages of 6 and 8. What was decided was that each month, "the kids" would take a turn at picking the book for that month. While we are making our son read the books himself, it has become blatantly obvious, that not one single book has been read by even one of the other children. It turns out that all of the other kids parents are at best buying them "books on tape" or renting them the movie adaptations of the books.

      This month they are doing "Tom Sawyer". This is not what would be called an easy read for a teen ager or even many adults. My son is doing it, but with great effort. The other parents are just renting the movies or cartoons. Then patting themselves on the back for exposing their kids to great "liturature". It is sad.

  2. Don't Worry by rlp · · Score: 5, Funny

    The BBC can just fire up the TARDIS and go back an fix the problem.

    --
    [Insert pithy quote here]
  3. What books did they cover? by blair1q · · Score: 2

    I keep digging, but TFA has no links at all, and searches for the program's name don't turn much up, either (though the presenter looks super-nerdy cute in her pics and you'd think she'd be into the skiffy...)

    Oh, and the summary neglects to point out that the Beeb has already promised to do an episode on Genre Fiction, so the crowd's already breaking up.

    1. Re:What books did they cover? by masterwit · · Score: 2

      Speaking of utter lack of links, because this was completely devoid in the description and the articles themselves, here are some I found relevant from comments below other articles and searching for a couple of minutes:

      http://www.sfx.co.uk/2011/04/16/85-authors-protest-at-the-bbc%E2%80%99s-treatment-of-genre-fiction/
      http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/apr/18/genre-authors-protest-bbc
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-13128769 --- (this is the BBC defense / response)
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/search/news/?q=World%20Book%20Night

      And the answer to your question:
      The Books Featured

      (Hell someone had to get a few more links in here eventually)

      cheers

      --
      We should start a new Slashdot and return control to the geeks. It actually wouldn't be that hard to get some users to
  4. As Newt says ... by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... "It won't make any difference." The literary establishment has not only decided that anything but "serious," contemporary*, mainstream fiction isn't Literature, and any protest from authors in other** genres will not only not change their minds, but will in fact solidify their position. They'll see it as further proof of the inherent immaturity of those who write (and, by extension, those who read) "genre fiction," and be further reassured in their smugness.

    * Exceptions may be made for historical fiction, as long as the history in question is within the last century or so.

    ** Literary fiction is a genre of its own, with rules far more rigid than those of SF and fantasy and at least as rigid as those of horror, romance and Westerns, but you'll never get them to admit it.

    --
    The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    1. Re:As Newt says ... by Xtifr · · Score: 2

      Michael Chabon is a pretty notable exception to this "rule" of yours (though he covers more genres than just SF, he is probably the only author with both a Pulitzer and a Hugo on his shelf); Vonnegut and Bradbury likewise, if less so. Norman Mailer openly wrote fantasy; Margaret Atwood used to deny it, but a large chunk of her output is SF, pure and simple.

      Less obvious examples of "it ain't necessarily so" include Joanna Russ, William Gibson (if you need a link, you need to get out more), and, posthumously, Philip K. Dick (same comment as Gibson), all three of whom have strong followings in literary circles, as well as Samuel R. "Chip" Delany, who had the advantages of being A) black, B) gay, C) a English professor and literary critic, and D) at one point wrote one of the most opaque, difficult literary SF novels ever penned, as well as a few others that gave it a run for its money.

      Of course, the reverse is true as well. SF is a snobbish crowd every bit as much as mainstream, and attempts by more mainstream authors to "dabble" in SF are generally scorned in SF circles.

    2. Re:As Newt says ... by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 2

      F is a snobbish crowd every bit as much as mainstream, and attempts by more mainstream authors to "dabble" in SF are generally scorned in SF circles.

      Because it's usually lousy SF, clearly written by people who have no knowledge of or respect for the genre. I've lost count of the number of major literary fiction authors I've seen lauded for writing Bold! Daring! Innovative! works of science fiction -- except it's not marketed as science fiction, the authors and publishers will vehemently deny that it's scieince fiction, and if it had been written and marketed as science fiction it would have been old hat fifty years ago. If a Margaret Atwood or a Cormac McCarthy wants to write SF, that's fine, but they should be honest about what they're doing, and try to familiarize themselves at least a little bit with the history of the genre so they don't make obvious beginner's mistakes.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  5. Good source for supervillains by linear+a · · Score: 2

    Surely the SF community and authors can devise a suitable vengeance!

    1. Re:Good source for supervillains by blair1q · · Score: 2

      We already have Harlan Ellison, the Galactus of the re-inked ribbon set.

  6. TV Doesn't Grok Sci-Fi by WebManWalking · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Condolences to the UK, but the US doesn't fare much better. Decades ago, NBC was in on the ground floor of a multibillion dollar franchise ("Star Trek"). They moved its time slot capriciously, as if trying to lose viewership, and cut its budget mercilessly. In its last season, just about every set was nothing but cheapo paper mache boulders. Then they cancelled it at the height of its popularity. In other words, they underestimated the public's appetite for sci-fi by tens of billions, dollars or pounds, take your pick.

    Now we have a cable channel dedicated to sci-fi, and they changed their name to "Syfy". How's that's supposed to be pronounced, "siffie"? They used to produce remakes of Dune that were more faithful to the books, but "Syfy" now only makes end-of-the-world and big-animal movies. They've lost faith in sci-fi too, as much as NBC did.

    Both sides of the Atlantic, sad to say.

    1. Re:TV Doesn't Grok Sci-Fi by spun · · Score: 3, Funny

      I believe "SyFy is pronounced "Shoot Yourself in the Fucking eYes so you don't have to witness this crap."

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    2. Re:TV Doesn't Grok Sci-Fi by LWATCDR · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Of course I remember going into a video store and asked them where Apollo 13 was. I wanted to cry when they told me it was in sci-fi! I had to ask why but all I got was because it was about space! Ever get the feeling that a large percentage of the population really doesn't understand? Of course I also had a discussion very artsy friend of mine about Apollo 13 and how I really thought it should have gotten best picture over Braveheart. She actually told me that Braveheart was a better movie because you knew how Apollo 13 ended before you saw the movie. I had to say "You didn't know the english won?"
      Good freaking heavens.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  7. Re:demographics by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 2

    Since the stereotype of the Sci-Fi Boys' Club hasn't been accurate for generations, if ever, that's not really the problem.

    --
    The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  8. Not surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sign of the times. Sci-fi is the genre of the innovater and thinker. The current world order does not encourage either.

    Asimov is rolling over in his grave.

    I'm moderately surprised that Reynolds, Stephenson, Varley, and Vinge are missing from the list.

  9. Re:That's because SciFi sucks by guybrush3pwood · · Score: 2

    The quality of writing in science fiction is worse than in any other genre. Most people pick up something and are so turned off that they never want to read another one. I'm saying probably less than 1% of sci fi novels are worth reading. Of the most famous authors, Heinlein, for example, published around 100 novels. But of those 100, only 1 or 2 were good. And so it is for the rest. You pick one up at the bookstore and chances are, it is garbage. There is no filter for sorting through the drek.

    The same short-sighted analysis could be made about any genre.

    On the other hand, most of Heinlein's books are good, actually; some are very good - "Time enough for love", for instance. Asimov published who-knows-how-many books, and virtually all of them are excelent. Frank Herbert published the Dune series; if you didn't like those, I'd be inclined to distrust your judgement even further.

    But by all means, do continue flamebaiting. It's fun to read.

    --
    Perhaps I'm trolling, perhaps I'm not.
  10. Re:Niven? by rubycodez · · Score: 2

    With Jerry Pournelle, the Mote in God's Eye , it's awesome.

    The first Ringworld was ok, even with a few scientific oopses that were made into later plot devices for the other lesser novels.

  11. Re:That's because SciFi sucks by Daetrin · · Score: 2

    Really? Worse than _any_ other genre? I think you're exaggerating a bit. I think probably only 90% of all science fiction is crap. Which about matches what i find when i take a look at what's on the shelves in other areas of the bookstore as well. Clearly the bit about Heinlein is just you being a troll or a case of your mileage varying. Personally i've found only about seven of Heinlein's thirty-four books to be "crap." That puts him at about a 75% success rate for me.

    And the "filter for sorting through the drek" is the exact same thing you use for sorting through all the drek in other genres of literature, all the drek in television, all the drek in film, and all the drek in every other form of entertainment. You can read reviews, you can read synopsis, you can ask your friends, you can sample a little before investing in the full product, and you can put all that together to make an educated guess.

    If you honestly think you can pick up _any_ non-science fiction book at random or just turn on the TV to a random channel and expect good odds of finding something of quality then i think you're bound to be severely disappointed.

    --
    This Space Intentionally Left Blank
  12. You mad? by spun · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Am I really? How exactly was I condescending to mainstream literature? I did say that people who were into "literature" as opposed to "reading books" tend to be elitist snobs, but that isn't slandering mainstream literature, or even the realm of literary criticism. I was merely pointing out that, if you characterize yourself as enjoying "literature" as opposed to "reading" you may be an elitist snob. Just say it to yourself: "I like reading books." Now say "I enjoy literature." Which sounded snobbier to you?

    Psychological projection is the habit of ascribing to others those parts of your own personality that you refuse to accept. I accept that I am opinionated and critical. Therefore, projection is hardly the correct term, Mr. Hanky. Now, are you mad because you characterize yourself as enjoying literature, or is it something more personal?

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    1. Re:You mad? by spun · · Score: 2

      And you sound personally offended. Why is that? I thought it was common knowledge that the world of "literature" is full of self involved, egotistical failures who can't produce anything of artistic merit, and therefore tear down others who actually can.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    2. Re:You mad? by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 2

      No, no, those are book critics.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
  13. Kurt Vonnegut said it best: by davevr · · Score: 2

    I have been a soreheaded occupant of a file drawer labeled “Science Fiction” ... and I would like out, particularly since so many serious critics regularly mistake the drawer for a urinal.

    - Kurt Vonnegut, Wampeters, Foma, and Granfalloons


    rip, kurt!

  14. Re:Niven? by wsxyz · · Score: 2

    Ringworld is a great concept. But the story part got left out.

  15. Re:Yeah, Noticed this for years. by zzatz · · Score: 2

    You don't see anything odd that a show sub-titled "The Books We Really Read" ignored nearly all popular books and focused on a very narrow subset favored by self-appointed elite? I assumed that "We" referred to the general public, but apparently I was wrong. BBC was using the royal "We".

    Sure, most popular entertainment is crap. So is most of the "Literary Fiction" genre. Sturgeon's Law applies to all writing: 90% of everything is crap. The BBC should cover the 10% that is good, which is not limited to any one genre. I appreciate skillful use of language no matter where I find it.

  16. The old school authors would actually be ... by perpenso · · Score: 3, Interesting

    For sci fi old school authors would actually be Jules Verne, HG Wells, etc; maybe for fantasy Bram Stoker, etc. Asimov, Bradbury, Clarke may be more of a "classical era".

    FWIW, the "literary snobs" might recognize Verne, Wells, etc. Perhaps the "literary snobs" of the next century will recognize Asimov, etc.

  17. I was thinking Mark Twain... by KingAlanI · · Score: 2

    "Classic: a book which people praise but don't read."

    --
    I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.