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What Kinect Could Be, But Probably Won't

An opinion piece at CNN looks at Microsoft's Xbox Kinect, praising the system's capabilities not for gaming, but for what it does to the video viewing experience. "The idea of being able to ditch your table full of remote controls and just use your hands and voice to interact with the TV is compelling. It's much nicer than QWERTY keyboards, which are a terrible idea in the living room. It's also better than Wii-like remote controls, or even using an iPad or smartphone as your TV remote, a feature that cable companies are increasingly rolling out." The problem, as they see it, is Microsoft's inability to actually bring this into common usage for regular television viewing. "It seems like the company is tied too much to the Xbox's substantial gaming revenue to split the Xbox TV stuff off as a separate product — even though there's a huge population of non-gamers who probably have no interest in buying an Xbox." Perhaps this is something that can be addressed by others when the Kinect SDK is released.

21 of 143 comments (clear)

  1. The very few times... by SilasMortimer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...that Microsoft comes up with something very cool on its own (i.e., without buying someone else's product and rebranding it), they have this frustrating tendency to screw it up with unimaginative business practices. In this instance, I give it at most two years before someone comes out with a similar product that will immediately charge to the lead in the market. At that point, Microsoft will try to catch up and that's what they'll be doing all the way up to the point where they discontinue the product. Their reliance on product limitations as a business practice may have helped them in the early years, but it's been a long time since it's been of any benefit.

    I'm not a fan of Microsoft (though they make THE best keyboard with their Natural Ergonomic 4000), but I can only think that this is seriously frustrating for people who work there.

    --
    Omnes tuae crepidines sunt nobis sunt. Ascendo tuum!
    1. Re:The very few times... by benjymouse · · Score: 4, Informative

      Then you don't recall correctly, obviously. Microsoft did actually develop Project Natal within its own organization (and through a wholly-owned subsidiary). They are using hardware developed by an Israeli company.

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    2. Re:The very few times... by JohnRoss1968 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Then by your comments about Microsoft NOT actually making the Kinect, Are we to assume you make everything you claim to make?
      When you make dinner, do you raise the cattle? Do you grow your own wheat? Do you make your own cheese? Do you even make your own beer( I have friends that do that and its not that hard to do)??
      Microsoft was at the helm the entire time this product was being developed and created. So what Steve Balmer didn't actually sit there and hand craft the molds for the plastic to be poured into to make the shell.
      AntiMS fanboyism at its worst.

    3. Re:The very few times... by davester666 · · Score: 2

      People at work think I'm crazy, but they also know when I'm reading /. because I'll be flailing my arms like crazy because I use my Kinect to scroll and type.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
  2. Explain to me... by Servaas · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How would the Kinect be used as a TV remote replacment? Swipe left for down channel, right for next? Up for volume up and down for volume down? Ok now I want to jump from channel 34 to 21, what swipe gesture would I use for that? How about channel info? Will there be Kinect gesture classes in our children's school years? I hear people talking about the Kinect like its the second coming but other then specific problems that could be addresed by it for the most part its the child like idea of of having a Minority Report interface that has people excited.

    1. Re:Explain to me... by Derekloffin · · Score: 2

      Presumably al non-simple functions would be controlled by voice, but frankly, I'd hate that. Like you say, the whole Minority Report thing often gets people excited, but in the end, the classic solution is less intrusive and more accurate.

    2. Re:Explain to me... by Mark+Hood · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I have the same problem - remembering the passage from 'Hitchhikers' talking about how buttons on equipment gave way to touch controls, then to gestures... Meaning you had to sit infuriatingly still if you wanted to keep listening to the same station.

      So either you have to accept that someone will change the channel every time they stretch (or throw their hands up in exasperation at a missed goal) or introduce a 'get the TV's attention' gesture. Yoo-hoo, I'm waving at you....

      I see they're talking about using voice too - so I guess it's that, but how are you going to turn the volume down when it can't hear you over the sound of the movie? Or when someone happens to speak the keyword in a show you're watching? (Which reminds me, if anyone had that 'clapper' thing, did it turn your lights off whenever the ad for it came on?)

      If someone gets it right, I'm all for it - but I just don't see it. 'Who wants a beer?' *hand goes up* *tv changes to Lifetime* *thirsty guy gets beaten*. I'll stick with my Harmony remote, to replace all the others - and I don't even need a webcam on 24/7 in my living room, with all the privacy implications that has.

      Mark

      PS We once had a TV at school which was had an ultrasonic remote (this was something that came out either before or in competition with IR). One of my classmates discovered that their sneezes were perfectly pitched to the 'change channel up' signal. Sadly it was hay-fever season, so they had to sit outside while we watched something about Henry VIII and chuckled uncontrollably whenever we remembered it.

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    3. Re:Explain to me... by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Yeah, with the next step to pause the commercials if there's nobody watching it.

      Technology that can be turned against you will.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:Explain to me... by SilasMortimer · · Score: 4, Funny

      I kind of like the idea. Particularly if I can specify what words are used for the commands.

      Firstly, I would name my entertainment unit Telebot. The command to power on would, of course, be "entertain me." Thus, to turn on my entertainment unit, I would say:

      "Telebot, entertain me!"

      And simply changing the channel is boring. I could go two ways on this: The command could be "transform to [number]" or "adjust your frequencies to channel [number]". Mute would have to be activated with "Telebot, silence!" and deactivated with "Telebot, you may proceed." All successful commands would be acknowledged with the OSD saying "Yes, Supreme Overlord" and unsuccessful commands would elicit "Does not compute", after which it would be properly contrite following some suitable punishment I have not thought up yet. The only trouble would be making it respond to an imperious tone and ignore all others.

      Man, I'd actually start watching TV again if I could do that.

      --
      Omnes tuae crepidines sunt nobis sunt. Ascendo tuum!
    5. Re:Explain to me... by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2

      I don't see why a basic hand vocabulary of 5-20 gestures from American Sign Language couldn't be the global standard for "talking" to Kinect. Why would children need school for that when they'd learn it earlier, faster and better just "watching TV"?

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      make install -not war

    6. Re:Explain to me... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      You could set the volume to 10*(n-1)%, where n is the number of words in the command, and the command must contain the string 'sound,' 'volume' or 'audio.' That way the more treknobabble you make up, the louder it gets. 'Mute audio' gets you silence. 'Activate sound system' gets you 10%. 'Sound system to low' for 20%. Right up to 'Initialse the multiaural projectors for enhanced signal transmission via atmospheric vibrations' to get full volume.

    7. Re:Explain to me... by sznupi · · Score: 2

      Commands being drown out by the sound of the movie is a non-issue; not when the listening device can get the "pure" movie audio and subtract it (and even when it can't, ambient noise cancellation works fine with few microphones)

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    8. Re:Explain to me... by grumling · · Score: 2

      How about a Twister interface: Left foot Yellow == channel up. Right hand blue + left hand green volume down, etc.

      --
      "Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
  3. 12 watts of power, right? by migla · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Not to be a party-pooper, because different interfaces should be explored, of course, but for day to day usage I could, on principle, not justify using a TV remote that draws 12 watts.

    --
    Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
  4. Stupid. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Informative

    I think that there is a reason that this guy is writing opinion pieces for CNN, rather than actual strategies:

    Microsoft's "unwillingness" to split off some sort of 'xbox TV' thing: So, the kinect is a ~$100-$120 device(and Microsoft is apparently not making a loss; but not trying to mar a launch by gouging). On top of that, it needs a host device to run the body-detection stuff. So, you might be able to do an 'xbox TV' for a bit less than a base-model xbox SKU+Kinect, by going with a weaker CPU and no GPU; but such a device would still cost much more than a universal remote and not so much less than the base model xbox that it could really differentiate itself.

    "Table full of remotes": Y'know why you have so many remotes? Because you have a zillion sucky little set-top-boxes that require more fiddling than joe user is willing to devote to the problem to get working together nicely. Guess what problem your 'xbox TV', no matter how magical the input experience, won't solve? Oh, yeah, that one. Consumer video is a mess, with endless fast-replaced devices, minimal control standardization(and what standardization there is, as with HDMI CEC or Cablecard, is either a few rounds short of fully baked or a failure by design), and some fairly entrenched players who have absolutely no intention of being shoved out of the way so that you can use the box you want to, rather than Scientific Atlanta's latest sick effort. That is the hard part.

  5. This resembles TV Shop... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    In commercials you always see how some ordinary thing is so very difficult and cubersome to do. You know... "Vacuuming under the sofa is so hard and the vacuum cleaner doesn't fit there well and you have to (*gasp*) kneel down and it still won't be perfectly clean... But if you buy Super Cleaner (TM) RIGHT NOW you'll...". At that point, every regular person should go "Excuse me? I've vacuumed under the sofa and it's not that difficult, really". The commercials are trying to create a need that doesn't exists because there is a product that has been designed to fulfill that need. This sounds similar.

    The reason why it's difficult to come up with a replacement for a remote is that there isn't any real need for that. Are the remotes really that hard to use? You pick one up. lay on the sofa and can do anything with a small finger gesture. I don't understand why they're trying to create need for a replacement with those very artificial sounding arguments. "It's hard to pick up the right remote"? Oh please...

  6. Linux in my living room by VortexCortex · · Score: 2

    "What the Kinect Could Be, But Probably Won't" -- Been there done that -- TFA should be called, "What Kinect & LIRC hackers have realized is really lame way to control a TV or computer."

    The article says a qwerty keyboard in the living room is a bad idea, without explaining why. So, why?

    Thanks.

    Because Dvorak is so much nicer.

    On a serious note, I don't see keyboards going away any time soon (or ever). I can type almost as fast as I think and 8 times as fast as I can get my voice recognition software to recognize.

    What I am seeing more of is Computers. Everywhere. In portable phone & tablet form factors, as mp3 players, as game consoles, set-top boxes and routers... Even in the dash of some cars.

    Once we realize that TVs are just big computer screens, and a general purpose "desktop" computer can perform all the tasks that we currently use the set-top boxes for, it won't seem too strange to just use your keyboard in the living room. Google TV already does this... For typing in a search or composing text/emails, nothing beats a keyboard. If I'm near my computer, I use it to send text messages.

    Hell, I even have a wireless USB keyboard hooked up to my XBox360 -- It's much quicker/nicer than the overpriced controller mounted keyboard.

    We'll always need a pointing device -- I prefer a Wacom pen-tablet/mouse pad, but I could see a Kinect filling this role. In fact, I've used my Kinect to control the mouse pointer, but the CPU usage is ridiculous when you consider how little my Wacom uses and how much more precise it is.

    As for Kinect controlling the TV -- Well, I've done that. It wasn't that hard. I've been using LIRC to control my TV with Linux for quite some time. Linking LIRC to a gesture recognizer (libFreenect + OpenCV) was a piece of cake, but not really worth it. The Kinect is far less efficient and precise than either my truly universal remote (which I use to control both the TV & computer with via LIRC), or a simple keyboard / mouse combo. Seriously though -- WAY too much CPU consumption when you consider how little an IR remote, keyboard or mouse/pen tablet consumes...

  7. Easy answer by __aailob1448 · · Score: 2

    Microphone in the kinect. Just speak "channel 34" or, even better, "CNN sports".

    Any further questions?

  8. Wow, what "news". by drej · · Score: 2

    I don't know what's the most ridiculous; The headline (since when is "what could be but probably won't" news?), the fact that these news start with "An opinion piece at CNN" (opinion /= news) or that the whole idea is so utterly stupid that I can't help but facepalm (which would probably entice Kinect to delete the channel or something).

    Next up: Some guy on the street says cars could run on liquid gold soon but probably won't. In his opinion car manufacturers could produce cars running on gold for 5$ less than the average gas-guzzling car and thus eliminate the demand for oil.

  9. Re:Google TV by gig · · Score: 2

    Ridiculous. Google TV is just a PC. It's obvious people don't want a PC in their living room. It's obvious Google can't design its way out of a paper bag. It's obvious Google has no idea how to make a consumer product. Google TV did not sell. More people buy an Apple TV every week than all the Google TV units that have been sold in its lifetime. For the price of a Google TV, you can get an Apple TV and an iPod touch to use as remote and for apps. Then you can look something up on the Web or tweet without taking over the TV screen and destroying the experience for the people you're watching TV with, which Google TV forgot all about since it is built for lonely nerds. Adding a Kinect only makes Google TV that much more expensive and makes the whole idea even crazier.

  10. voice control is a bad idea by tomhudson · · Score: 4, Funny

    "The idea of being able to ditch your table full of remote controls and just use your hands and voice to interact with the TV is compelling."

    voice

    You'll never be able to watch that Top Gun disk ...
    "EJECT EJECT EJECT" ... bzzzt disk ejected.

    And you'll never be able to finish Casablanca:
    "Play it again" ... player loops back to scene 1

    And no police action dramas.
    "Police! Stop!" click ..

    And Ah-nold will just endlessly loop ...
    "I'll be back" loops to previous scene

    And forget about "Spaceballs"
    "password is 1 2 3 4 5" ... wrong password - device locked!

    And all those westerns ...
    Hold it right there ... paused

    And all your porn will be reduced to 20 seconds
    Faster! .. 2x
    Faster! .. 4x
    Faster! .. 8x
    Faster! .. 16x
    Faster! .. 32x
    Faster! .. 64x .
    Faster! .. plaid .