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Computer Opens Unmanned Store For Holiday
tomhudson writes "The Walkato Times in New Zealand is reporting that someone forgot to tell the computer not to unlock the supermarket on the Friday holiday. 'About half of the 24 people who came into the supermarket paid for their groceries using the self-scan service. The service stopped working after alcohol was scanned, requiring a staff member to check a customer's age before the system is unlocked.' The owner, Mr Miller, was quoted as saying 'I can certainly see the funny side of it... but I'd rather not have the publicity to be honest. It makes me look a bit of a dickhead.' Rather than take legal action, Mr Miller is hoping that the people who didn't pay will do the right thing."
RIAA, did you open your ears and eyes wide open? That's how you should you react, unlike you, you little ...."man"
That's about twice as many as I would expect! Good going.
Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
Good thing it's in New Zealand.
Maybe they didn't notice that nobody was actually working in the store?
That half the people paid. I would have expected the number to be less. Good job America!
New Zealand a.k.a. America
That half the people paid. I would have expected the number to be less. Good job America!
"New Zealand " = america??
oops
last I heard, NZ was still a sovereign nation...
Right at opening the staff of various stores are often occupied with opening duties. Putting out new signs, fresh food in the deli, etc. I could easily see walking in, picking up a few items and going through the self-checkout without knowing the stores was otherwise empty. I mean, sure, I might clue in something is wrong when going through the checkout and seeing no cashiers, but hey the self-checkout is working so why worry about it...
What does america have to do with it? This was in new zealand.
Also, the police were called due to reports of truckloads of groceries being removed. So while some people were honest, it appears the dishonest capitalized quickly.
From the article it appears it took less than an hour between someone realizing the store was unlocked an unattended to trying to run off with a pile of free food.
My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw New Zealand forever. We begin bombing in five minutes.
What a fantastic official response. If only managers in America would openly admit to being the dickheads they are...
Tough choice. I wonder how many people stopped paying after the self-scan stopped working.
"However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results" - Winston Churchill
So after the Zombie uprising I won't have to break into places because they now open themselves regardless of if anyone is there to watch over them?
About half of the 24 people who came into the supermarket paid for their groceries using the self-scan service
Note that this doesn't say that all 24 people who came into the supermarket took anything in the first place. I can easily see some going in and filling the shopping cart, but then noticing that registers are unmanned and leaving the cart in the shop (if e.g. the person doesn't feel like using self-checkout, or doesn't know how).
It would be interesting to know how many actually didn't pay for something that they took.
/. continues to chronicle the rise of SkyNet...
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
Really. I've gone back in to pay for an item that I found in the bottom of the cart, BUT...
For all the time I've waited at the self checkout line for someone to punch the "over 21" button so I could continue scanning my items, I think I might just walk out and consider the bonus earned.
(If we have one of the self checkout software developers here: PLEASE let me continue scanning and require the ID before I pay, instead of halting the entire process.)
Godaddy is a scam and a ripoff.
So I infer from the description that if those first customers did not lock up all the checkouts by scanning in Alcohol perhaps more of the later customers could have also paid for their purchases.
From all of the claims the *AA made, I would have expected an empty store and 0 paying customers.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
that doesn't say much for the level of helpfulness of the employees when they are there...
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
a plan of action. Dickhead needs to look over the tapes, and prosecute those that stole from him. Otherwise dickhead is setting himself and the store/employees up as suckers to which other dickheads will take advantage. Dickhead is indeed right, he's being a dickhead by just hoping.
And what about the people who stole groceries? What are they? 1 manager, how many thieving customers?
This is actually a useful social study and most liberals will NOT like the result. This "experiment" shows that a large number of people will ONLY obey the rules of society if somebody is standing behind them with a heavy stick.
Yes, a lot of people will behave. For the rest, we need armed police and guard dogs. Pity. If only there was some method of getting rid of the assholes. But we can't and so to counter 1 asshole, we need the entire justice system. (Because while not everyone paid, a few will also simply have left without taking anything)
If you ever handle an event or social place, you will know just how annoying the dickheads are, managers or otherwise. You can do so many things in a world without dickheads. For instance, you hate 3g coverage and price? No problem just use my Wifi. I don't mind you downloading email or browsing on it. Oh wait, I got to use a password because 1 dickhead in thousands will use it to break the law. No easy free roaming wifi for everyone else.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Just because it's in New Zealand doesn't mean that the people who paid weren't American. After all, we're known world round for honesty and contributing to the less fortunate. That's why our prison rate is so amazingly low. Umm, right?
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
So let me get this straight... Somebody designed and built a computer-controlled lock system (that apparently also turns on the self-checkouts), and didn't think something like this would happen?
Would it be that hard to have an "unlock" button to pair with the computer's instructions? When the store's supposed to be locked, the button would do nothing. Between zero and five minutes after the scheduled opening, it unlocks the doors. Five minutes after opening time, a nice reminder sounds. After ten minutes, the computer could assume human error, and stop trying to unlock the doors.
Developing and installing the system would likely cost a trivial amount compared to the risk of leaving a store unlocked and unattended all day.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
I've worked in one of those fast-stop places. Quite frequently, I was the only one actually working - everyone else, including the assistant manager, was on a "smoking break". The manager, of course, was in the back office, doing whatever it is managers do besides managing.
I'd like to think that there's a relation between "me being fired" and "the place going out of business a month later".
Self-checkout machine: "You have purchased forty-five pounds of spare ribs. You must throw the best barbecue in [your hometown here]."
From the article, the police were alerted when it was reported that people were driving off with "truckloads of groceries." This is the type of person that will not feel guilty and "cough up" because they clearly knew what happened and took advantage of the situation. While I don't think legal action should be taken against all individuals that didn't pay, these "bad apples" should be dealt with because they are not the type of person that will ever feel guilt about this type of action.
In a world where the increasing response to our own stupidity is to litigate, kudos to the store owner for admitting a screw-up and taking responsibility.
Double kudos to the folks who actually paid.
Shame on the folks who stole. Double shame on them for not calling authorities when the store was unmanned. That's more than groceries.. what if the owner was being held at gun point in the back? Of course, can't expect people to actually do the *right thing*, now can we?
The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.
The 1/2 of people who couldn't figure out the self scan were 55 or older and couldn't bother reading the directions.
I'd rather not have the publicity to be honest.
Looks like that's working out well...
Some people (including myself) have an extreme aversion to self-checkout systems, so I'd notice.
They're too damned temperamental for my tastes. They use scales to weigh the bags to make sure nothing that wasn't scanned ends up in the bag. Of course, if the original input weight was wrong, or (more likely) the scale is just being quirky, you get the prompt to wait for an associate to come over and verify your contents. Then there's the age-related prompts. Things like alcohol, sure, but then you have a myriad of other crap that may trigger an alarm (like just about anything in an aerosol can) for an associate (who may or may not be nearby) to come check out the situation.
Combine that with the 60 year old idiots who are trying that "new fanangled" machine and are staring at it blankly when it asks for payment (which inevitably takes them FOREVER to figure out) and it's just too much hassle for me to deal with. I'll stand in the regular line - any employee that comes by to remind me that the self-checkout is open gets a verbal "No thanks" plus my "Go to hell" look.
Maybe once they work a little better I'll start using the self-checkout machines again.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
Hell, I'd pay extra for that level of service at most of the grocery stores around me!
In related news, grocery supermarket chain Pack-N-Save has announced they will be laying off 75% of their workforce. After a one-day experiment to test customer honesty and self-checkout systems, the chain discovered it would be cheaper to fire all of their checkout employees and let customers do it themselves.
Other retail chains are expected to follow suit sometime later this year.
-David
this sounds like an episode of Dilbert ...
Given that they didn't have to pay any human staff, and 50% of customers paid, did they make or lose money? Also, if the automated teller hadn't of shutdown due to alcohol being purchased, would the number of paying customer have been much higher?
M0571y H@rml355.
I thought this was going to be a story about a grand opening of a store that is completely computer run.
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
I love 'em, but I do agree about the idiots who try to use them. IMO they should have a timer and if it takes longer than a predetermined length of time (based on number of items and size, it adds a surcharge for being slow. It should also add a surcharge if you try to scan too many items. It's not for doing your entire groceries with people! It's the modern version of the express line for people with under 10-20 items.
Try that shit in New Orleans. Place would be cleaned out... even the registers would be gone.
Link
Includes some CCTV footage.
OK, this is somewhat off topic, but what the hey – it about honesty and controls.
I just heard a story about the person who ran the gift store at Kennedy Center. For those of you who don’t know, this is where the president goes when he wants to hear a little light opera or what not. The gift store was run by volunteers, mainly older retired people who like high culture. Not the profile of the average criminal. And yet people where ripping off the till right and left. A few dollars here to pay for a cab, lunch, whatever.
The manager puts in some really simple controls. Goes away from the honor system to sings with prices, receipt books, etc. Shrinkage drops from 40% to 8%. Remove all controls and yeah, a lot of honest people will chisel the system a little. Sigh.
This American Life, Esp 431, See No Evil, Act Three. I Worked at the Kennedy Center and All I Got Was This Lousy T-Shirt.
Why would they have an automated system that opens the store without any operator intervention? I mean, I could understand if they had a system that went through the process of turning everything on and unlocking all the doors once there was someone there to turn a key or something... But to have it just automatically open the store at 8am every morning? The flaw in their system is so painfully obvious.
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
This is a chilling sign of the times, shows that an non-managed store could do sales... so with that PHBs may decide maybe only half the staff is really necessary or just a few attendants. Yeah, more layoffs, that will fix the economy*.
(*economy == business profits)
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
just cutting the cashiers and then you will need more self check out attendants.
A non-managed store could do sales but not restocking or over 18 / 21 stuff.
and LP.
With the exception to gas stations and convenience stores, laws in New Zealand either require or make it uneconomical to operate on Good Friday and Easter Sunday.
It's bedlam in New Zealand at Easter. Going to the supermarket on the Thursday before Good Friday is like feeding time at the zoo. Then there is the small opportunity to on Easter Saturday to do some shopping again before closing on Easter Sunday, but again, it's chaos!
And don't get people started about Easter Monday which happens to fall on ANZAC Day day this year and shops cannot open until midday on ANZAC Day. (The unrelated complaint among so-called intelligence New Zealanders is that ANZAC Day is not observered on the following weekeday because of this conincidence).
Given the inconvenience at Easter time particularly this year, I can see why people too the opportunity to go to the supermarket when it opened accdientally. As for the non-payment, those people are stupid to think there is no CCTV footage of them strolling out the door without paying.
"I just can't sit while people are saying nonsense in a meeting without saying it's nonsense" J Watson, Sci Am 288:(4)51
In 1971 Ben Bova wrote a sci-fi novel called "Exiled From Earth". It described a future not too different from our current society. I was always intrigued by a part in the book where some of the characters, using a credit-card-like device could get access to a 24-hour store and buy stuff without any human interaction at all. When I read the first couple of sentences of this article, I thought they might be talking about stores like this that exist now, instead of some sort of mistake. Such a store is not entirely out of the question. I am encouraged by the fact that half the customers just got their items and paid for it in the regular way.
Proverbs 21:19
I think what you're missing is that people steal for reasons, regardless of whether you think those reasons are right or wrong. He didn't even remotely imply that the reason (machine refuses to sell alcohol) justified theft, merely that the theft was a consequence.
Just to Godwinize it, let's say you convincingly tell Hitler that you're landing at Normandy. The invasion will be more difficult as a consequence of this. Saying this, doesn't mean I'm a Nazi sympathizer; believe me, I'll be most happy if Hitler just surrenders, just as we'd all be happier if people didn't steal. Nevertheless, consequences are consequences so you should plan for the obvious ones. That means there is probably an upside to 1) keeping your invasion plans a secret from the Nazis 2) stop getting in peoples' way when they want to buy alcohol.
on that note - i should get a discount for using it vs eating up an employee.
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
We are talking about a grocery store here. People do need to eat; this wasn't people raiding an unlocked best buy. It would be interesting to know how many people left with a modest amount of groceries without paying vs how many left with "truck loads" of food. While certainly someone leaving with truck loads is likely taking (a lot) more than what they need, you may have also had some customers actually walking out with a gallon of milk or what not.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Restocking is a non-issue: make the vendors do it. Some grocery stores in my area require vendors of certain perishables (bread, milk, etc.) to stock their own products. Vendors maintain ownership of the goods until the point of sale, and the retailer doesn't pay for it until after it is sold. Added bonus for retailer: liability for shrinkage lies with the vendor as well.
The self-checkout machines near me were temperamental 5 or 6 years ago, but they've gotten much better. My favorite was when you would scan an item and place it in a bag, the machine would say:
Unknown item detected in the bagging area. Please remove the item from the bagging area.
So you'd take it back out and hear:
Item removed from bagging area. Please return the item to the bagging area.
It would be stuck in this loop until an employee came by to fix it. However, I haven't had this, or any other problem in several years at any store. I don't know what they did (maybe just a software upgrade), but the machines work much better now.
What idiot designed a computerized system that didn't require human interaction to unlock the doors ?! I mean, people could just go in and walk out with anything if nobody was working there. Oh wait, they did...
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Back home in Spokane, WA I met a guy and his wife who ran a candy shop at a country tourist attraction. He said whenever people didn't have enough money or said they'd lost their wallets he let them take whatever they wanted, gave them a business card, and asked them to mail a check when they went home.
They'd been open at least five years and he said he could count the number of people who'd stiffed him on one hand.
It's absolutely shocking how much your expectations of people change their actual behavior; look up the documentary "A Class Divided" from PBS for a good example.
Don't expect people to do wrong and act surprised when they don't. Expect them to do the right thing, treat them with respect, and you'll make a tangible difference in their choosing good behavior.
What exactly is the right thing to do? Go back their and shop again? Pay money for any unpaid goods? Not pay for any unpaid goods? Something else you insensitive clod?
Good thing this happened in NZ. Apparently in the US it is acceptable for people who leave a store without paying to be shot on sight.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
If you mean Christchurch, you are a bit late.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
and LP.
You mean like propane? Actually wrong as there are places around here, usually in from of Home Depot and the like that have a 24hr LP station. It has lots of pre-filled bins and after one pays with CC and a terminal next to it a bin is unlocked to take a full bottle out and put your empty in.
The name of the newspaper is the Waikato Times - not the WaIkato Times (http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/). Mind seem pedantic, but kiwis are proud of our maori heritage and place names. Oh, and the store manager is a dickhead.
I'm not terribly allergic to self-checkouts, though I do view them with a certain disdain (I'd like to have a discount if I'm going to be checking and bagging my own groceries). I often use them when I've just got one or two things that I need and find myself in a bit of a hurry (a missing ingredient for a meal that I've already started prepping, for instance), or if the lines are very long.
As another poster indicated, they are getting better:
The last encounter I had with one went something like this: Approach machine. Ignore prompts. Scan items, tossing each into a bag. Ignore prompts. Insert money. Ignore prompts. Take change and receipt. Leave with items.
This is good enough. In fact, I might even prefer this level of non-interaction over dealing with a human on some days...
It does throw a fit if I'm buying small things (packets of Kool-Aid, for example), as they sometimes seem to be of inadequate mass to make the scale register a change in weight. Pushing the "I don't want to bag this item" button fixes that, annoyingly enough. (The sequence of code which ensures that everything that one has scanned has also subsequently ended up in a bag should be eliminated, IMHO: It protects no one from anything, and is at best merely occasionally annoying.)
It's been years since the opposite has happened, with it over-weighing the bagging area and assuming that I'm putting things in bags that have not yet been scanned.
Buying beer is a bit of a bother sometimes -- some places have little wireless widgets that the person tending to the self-checkouts carries, which alert them wherever they're at in the store. At those places it works OK, especially if they recognize me: They will use the widget to satisfy the machine's want of age verification, and I'll be on my way in a few seconds.
Others are far worse, relying on an attendant to visually notice and act upon a red light that appears above the self-checkout, finish what they're doing, eventually stumble over, figure out if I'm old enough, and then enter an incantation into the machine.
Kid-proof tablet..
And of course, even if you do stand behind them with a big stick, you're never going to completely stop everyone from ever committing a crime... that's simply a fact... and of course, the wonderful lesson here is: only a police state will stand behind you all the time with a big stick threatening to use it if you break the law... because only in a police state do they feel the need to ensure that people don't ever break the law in the first place.
So does public shame count as a "police state"?
Yeah I read the article and I can't get all the bits of the story to fit together properly.
For this story to be 100% true as told we need to make some assumptions.
Assumption 1). ONE computer system needs to have control of the lights, door locks and registers.- or each of the separate computer systems together are coordinated and have control of the above items.
Assumption 2). The self-checkout registers were on and were pre-set to auto-start at a given time of day or "ready-to-go" state even though they were "cashed up" at the end of the previous day. - (read cash removed and tallied at the end of the previous day).
Assumption 2.1). The self-checkout registers have the ability to log on in the morning with no manager authorisation including connecting to the bank for the EFT/Credit machines.
Assumption 3. As NZ was an early adopter for EFTPOS so no one tried to pay with cash and expect change before someone tried to buy alcohol.
Reasoning 1). Unlikely. - More likely given the type of shop it is - the duty manager would have to do all of the above manually. Besides the duty manager would need to select what registers would be on at the beginning of the day.
Reasoning 2). No cash would be left in the machines overnight. - Therefore it's More than likely the machines turned off after cashing up was complete.
Reasoning 2.1). Again because the manager would select which registers would be active during the day I doubt the registers would be setup to do this automatically.
Reasoning 3). - Possible but unlikely.
I think the real story is something like, legislation prevents the shop opening on "Good Friday".
See: http://www.odt.co.nz/your-town/wanaka/157571/businesses-defy-easter-law-again
More likely than the above: One manager figures he's being clever by not having the shop staffed and blaming it on a computer glitch.
The German Bahn system works by letting pretty much anyone on board. If it's ICE, or regional then you're probably going to have your ticket checked by an attendant... the punishment for boarding without a ticket? Buying a ticket.
Bzzzt wrong.
You will have to pay a surcharge when buying aboard an IC/EC or ICE train, and there's no onboard sale on regional/local trains (IRE, RE, RB and below). Plus, any sign that you were trying to evade the attendant and you'll be fined, too. Boarding a regional/local train without a ticket means a 40 EUR (or twice the regular fare for your ride, whichever is greater) fine plus legal consequences if you get caught.
The only exception happens to be "my"* line, where we do sell tickets even though we're part of DB Regio - the reason being that some of our stops are so small and remote locations that it would not be economical to install a ticket vending machine there.
What happens if you just happen to be in the bathroom when they pass? Nothing.
Bzzzt wrong again. ;-)
We *do* knock at the door and expect you to provide your ticket. Of course you'll be given sufficient time to finish your "business" and wash your hands first.
-Sincerely, Attendant #93, RB22396 / RB22397
*Kursbuchstrecke (KBS) 759, for the trainspotters out there
That could be valid logic if people were assigned to their jobs by some central planning authority. In a free market where you are free to choose your job, nobody forces you to choose an unimportant tedious job like threshing grain by hand, carrying buckets of water, or digging with shovels. You are already free to choose some important job that can not be automated. So why don't you? Why don't all these checkout clerks become lawyers, programmers, senators, or whatever it is that you believe to be important? The answer, of course, is that the market is already full. There is only so much that needs to be done in the world to keep everyone fed, clothed, and happy.
A single farmer with modern equipment can feed hundreds of people. A factory worker making clothes can make hundreds of garments a day. High efficiency means that only a fraction of the population is actually needed to do everything. Only that leaves the rest unemployed and unable to buy anything. What does it matter if the products are cheap when nobody has money? Money only works in a world where everybody is a producer and can trade their labor for the labor of others. If there is nothing sellable you can produce, because an automation owned by someone else can do it for free, you'll always be broke, starving, and homeless.
Ultimately, money goes to employ someone. The exceptions are the rare cases where someone socks it away under their mattress.
This is actually a common assumption that just isn't true for certain segments of the population. The "sock it away in a mattress" scenario is the exception for the comparatively poor, but for the comparatively wealthy, it's the rule. Take for example, $100 in the hands of a) someone who is paid $30,000/yr., vs. b) someone who is paid $300,000/yr. (Note I didn't say "earns" in either case; that's a different discussion).
Person a is likely to spend that $100, putting it back into circulation and as you say, eventually employing someone. Person b, however, is more likely than not going to put it either in that figurative mattress, or in some kind of market-based investment, fueling speculation in commodities and driving up the prices of basic goods, in the end making it harder to employ people because more money has to go to pay for the speculation.
If we had anything resembling a labor shortage, then my money would be better spent in the self-checkout line, freeing up someone to do something more productive. But in our current economy (and I mean in general, not just since 2008), if I want my dollar to do some real work, I'm better off if it goes to paying a cashier than an executive.