Another Windows 8 Pre-Beta Surfaces

angry tapir writes "While Microsoft has not announced the release date of its follow-up to Windows 7, an early pre-beta version of Windows 8 (although its official name has not been confirmed) has surfaced on the Internet, the second version to appear within a month. It is the second milestone release that has showed up on the Internet this month. Users of this Windows 8 software have said it features a Ribbon-based user-interface, similar to the one used in recent editions of Microsoft Office. This specific milestone build also has software for a Webcam, a new task manager, a PDF reader and an immersive browser." "Surfacings" like this tell me that Microsoft sees the value in crowdsourced opinion gathering far more than they're sometimes given credit for.

Comments

Shit gets shittier

[Stormwatch]

Users of this Windows 8 software have said it features a Ribbon-based user-interface, similar to the one used in recent editions of Microsoft Office.

Overheard at Microsoft: "Hey guys, you know that ribbon interface that everybody hated? How about we put it everywhere in the system?"

What's next, will they bring back Bob and Clippy as well?

Re:Shit gets shittier

[MrEricSir]

Microsoft has a history of shoving features down users throats no matter how much they complain. People loathed Clippy, so what did Microsoft do? They added an animated dog to Windows XP.

Re:Shit gets shittier

[syockit]

I don't know who your 'everybody' refers to. Maybe it doesn't include me and the plethora of other satisfied MS Office 2007 users. Are we 'nobodies'?

Re:Shit gets shittier

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I see that you are trying to write an anti-microsoft post. Would you like the Microsoft(r) Social Media Assistant, a Native feature of Genuine IE9, to help you with that?

Re:Shit gets shittier

[blai]

I don't see why you hate the ribbon so much. It is collapsible (double click any tab), has all items visible in appropriately sized icons (bigger icons are more commonly used) to the user on a single click, and the user may customise locations of icons as well as the availability of shortcut keys, quick access bars and graphical tooltips, just in case you still don't know what clicking on a giant "paste" button does.

Yes, we know some like menus, but as screen resolutions grow, ribbons are the definite way to go. If you don't have a large screen, you will notice collapsing your ribbon will save you about 10 vertical pixels, while the number of clicks to get somewhere remains the same (1~2).

Re:Shit gets shittier

[Xtravar]

People are resistant to change. As a software developer, I'm sick of my boss saying "we can't make things better because it'll disrupt users". Fuck that. Let's disrupt some goddamn users so we aren't stuck with Win 3.1 interfaces everywhere. Software evolves. The first interface is not the best. People should evolve with it.

I'm not sure who to feel sorry for...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

A built-in PDF reader, eh? Should I feel sorrier for Adobe's devs, so incompetent that Microsoft felt the need to step in and provide a PDF reader built by grown-ups, or for Microsoft's XPS team, who have so failed to set the world on fire with XPS that Microsoft felt the need to step in and provide a PDF reader?

Re:PDF reader?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Given that using Adobe software to view untrusted material is the rough equivalent of injecting yourself with used needles in the hope of scoring free heroin, I'm going to adopt a "it couldn't possibly be worse?" stance until otherwise demonstrated.

Re:The Ribbon:

[atomicbutterfly]

Oh come ON! We're geek here, and my non-geek fiance was able to learn how to use the ribbon in a few minutes.

Are Linux nuts so incapable of learning a UI? Or is it a UI in a Microsoft product that automatically puts up a mental blinder that they cannot push through?

Ever day that passes I have less and less respect for geeks who can't remain impartial.

Immersive

[Nerdfest]

IE 6 was also an 'immersive' browser. It made me want to drown myself.

Ribbons?

[sycodon]

Ribbons? RIBBONS?

The most useless POS interface ever.

Re:Ribbons?

[theArtificial]

Ribbons in applications and O/S are not like tabs in browsers.

Quite right! However they do roughly provide functionality similar to tabs and if you were to explain the ribbon interface to someone from 1998 or to a lay person the tab anology would be one effective way. I googled "tab navigation" and one of the first results provides a great example of what are commonly referred to as "tabs".

Browsers show the same functional tools regardless of what tab you are on (similar to a sheet in excel). On the other hand ribbons hide different tools behinds 6-8 separate ribbon sections that are usually clicked through where all the buttons have a similar background and 'icons' making it hard to search through as opposed to a File - menu - list with text that a person can scan through in about 2 seconds.

Browsers tabs feature a description (typically the meta title) much like the ribbon interface. The content area below the title area changes when different "tabs" are selected, this functionality is present in both UI. I appreciate your comparison and you're correct with many details yet you do not seem to recognize these interface elements as tabs. Another example: We still have the start menu dynamic from Windows 95 today in Windows 7 (and similar features found in several popular window managers) whose interaction and function have changed little. Bar at the bottom featuring a button, click the button and a menu pops up, select items etc.

One can enable an overlay of key short cuts over the ribbon interface so you do not have to use the mouse however the search time still takes just as long unless you knew the key-binding shortcuts from previous versions.

Change is hard. One is more productive with a tool one is familiar with... perhaps you're not the target audience for these largely superficial changes. It also is apparent you're familiar with efficient usage (keyboard shortcuts) and these largely superficial changes shouldn't be difficult to figure out.

Re:Ribbons?

[rve]

I could not disagree more strongly. Office 2007 was the first office suite that I didn't hate. Word et al. no longer have a clutter of shortcut bars that take up a quarter of your effective screen, no longer is there a series of pop up dialogs for every simple action, I think it's great. The features you actually use are now one or two clicks away. The UI even works on a laptop, with a much smaller screen. Just give it a try, once you get used to it, and unlearn the office 95 ways, it's quite good.

I have seen computers before by the way; I started programming them when I was about 10 yrs old, in the mid 80's.

Re:Ribbons?

[Z34107]

ribbons hide different tools behinds 6-8 separate ribbon sections that are usually clicked through where all the buttons have a similar background and 'icons' making it hard to search through as opposed to a File - menu - list with text that a person can scan through in about 2 seconds.

Let's take a look at Excel 2010's ribbon, and then at Excel 2000's menus. I can't believe an Excel user would find File/View/Data menus intuitive, yet File/View/Data tabs incomprehensible.

But, for the sake of argument, let's accept as a given that finding what you want in a menu (and its submenus) is easy because it's "text" you can scan in "about 2 seconds." Taking the "wouldn't recognize a stop sign if it wasn't labeled" demographic into account, they labeled every one of the icons.

This is why it's a major improvement over the toolbar, which was dozens of tiny (unlabeled) icons, almost entirely hidden behind chevrons so they wouldn't take up half your screen. It's also the only significant "improvement" they've made to the Office UI since 1994. It really shouldn't be incomprehensible.

Re:Ribbons?

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Funny enough. I agree with you and the parent.

the ribbon does suck. And yet it's a huge improvement on the office 95 ui concept. Using the ribbon in firefox 4 and ie showed me the ribbon works as a ui element.

The problem you and the parent are running into is that perhaps simple word processing isn't simple anymore and nothing will succinctly untangle the ui mess that office style productivity suites present.

Re:The task manager is definitely the best feature

[definate]

Poppy cock!

I have setup a lot of machines for a lot of people over the years. I have found most users really confused by the current Task Manager, especially if it's something that isn't a window. I've tried setting up setup Sysinternals Process Explorer for many of these users, especially the ones who just don't understand anything, and I have found that they find it easier, or just as hard. The Process Explorer shows nesting well, doesn't obscure things, doesn't jump around in the list, and is more self-explanatory.

The learning curve on the Process Explorer, because it shows us the data in a more logical way, is MUCH smaller.

Re:The task manager is definitely the best feature

[Bungie]

The main reason is because Task Manager is often used to try and regain control of a system which has stopped responding. It must be a small and efficient program so that it can be loaded and used when the system is low on resources (like processor time, memory, or even handles). It provides enough information for the user to determine resource usage for the system and running processes, and provides enough functionality for user to manage them. It is not meant to be used for in-depth performance analysis or detailed process information.

You'll notice that the "Services" tab which was added under Vista is very slow to populate when clicked. This is most likely no accident that it loads the service information from the registry on demand (only when the tab is clicked) instead of retreiving and storing it when Task Manager is first opened.

Process Explorer allows you to peek into intricate process details like handles and loaded DLL's, you can even view the strings in the DLL's memory. It also provides extremely detailed information about the system, like loaded drivers, DPC's and even hardware interrupts (which even interrupt the kernel scheduler and can't be tracked by standard Windows programming methods). This much information is great for doing a deep investigation of a driver or system issue, but is not necessary (and may even be confusing to many users) for regular process management.

They also probably do not include it in Windows because of anti-trust claims and such. They do not include software from most of their product lines in Windows anymore (even extremely useful things like Word Viewer, Windows Live Photo Gallery, or Windows Mobile Device Center). They are left to the user to download and install... If they included a checkbox in Task Manager for Process Explorer, competitors may cry that it's bundling.

Re:The task manager is definitely the best feature

[darkpixel2k]

What I've never understood is why MS didn't just make the Sysinternals 'Process Explorer' the default task manager

Or even better--in this day and age, why aren't the SysInternals tools pre-packaged into an MSI for easy deployment to machines complete with a %PATH% modifier so you can just push and run...?

Re:The task manager is definitely the best feature

[Runaway1956]

I'm an "older people". Guess what - it was older people who built the first PC's. In fact, all the people who created the first operating systems are older people now. We made your apps, your games, your everything.

Alright, I'll make an effort to be fair here. Probably 20% of the people my age have never owned a PC, and never will. Another large percentage has never done anything with a PC other than check email, play a couple of games, and maybe read Fox News headlines. Many of the rest have never diddled in the registry, and have almost no idea how to diagnose or cure a virus problem - that's all automatic with the version of Norton shipped on the computer from Dell (or HP or Gateway or) and if that doesn't take care of it then the computer shop can fix it.

But, it isn't just older people. I can find a few dozen youngsters (25 and younger) who have no clue about the internal workings of a computer just as easily as older people. No freaking clue.

Older people. Phhht. Wait 'til you're an octogenarian, and the young pukes are making fun of you. Ha! More, I hope you live to be 120, and you have to tolerate the condescending bullshit from the kids for all of your last 40 years or more.

Windows $NEXT_VERSION will floor all comers

[David Gerard]

Guest post by Mary-Jo Enderle

I have seen the future: Windows $NEXT_VERSION Milestone $MOCKUP.

I tried it on a low-end laptop with four Core 2 Duo chips and only 8 gig of memory, and trust me: $NEXT_VERSION is shaping up to be one heck of a product.

WordPad and Paint have seen major overhauls to their user interfaces. Forget the freetards and their "distros" full of all sorts of useless shovelware like "FireFox" and "OpenOffice" and, haha, "GIMP"! — the bundled software with Windows $NEXT_VERSION is clear, simple, sparse and to-the-point. The much-loved Ribbon user interface from Office $HATED_VERSION is now part of WordPad and Paint!

The controversial Digital Rights Management system in $CURRENT_VERSION has been worked over, with user-downloadable "tilt bits," which you can configure to your own liking. It'll require every user to supply a blood sample for DNA analysis, and the beta nearly took my finger off, but of course that's only if you want to play premium content. The Blu-Ray of Battlefield Earth was unbelievable on this operating system.

A public beta should be released by the end of this year. There's just no way that Steve "Trains Run On Time" Ballmer will miss the Christmas deadline. The final release should leave the midnight queues on $CURRENT_VERSION release day — the street riots, the water cannons, the rubber bullets — in the shade.

I am so excited about $NEXT_VERSION of Windows. It will go beyond just solving all of the problems with $CURRENT_VERSION, it will be an entirely new paradigm. Forget about security problems, those are all fixed in $NEXT_VERSION. And they're finally ridding themselves of $ANCIENT_LEGACY_STUFF.

Also, there'll be $DATABASE_FILESYSTEM. It'll be awesome!

I wonder how $NEXT_VERSION will compare to $NEXT_NEXT_VERSION.

Re:The Ribbon:

[man_of_mr_e]

I just tested a line graph in Excel 2010, double clicked on the Y axis and the Format Axis dialog popped up. Same for the X Axis.

You seem to be wrong.

Re:The task manager is definitely the best feature

[SharpFang]

Nope, the Linux on the same machine that I used to read the disk (and run UAE) couldn't read it afterwards either. And it wasn't some fancy "image mount under emulator". Linux, using AmigaFFS system would mount the Amiga partitions within its own filesystem, using standard AmigaFFS kernel module shipped with vanilla kernel, making them normally, natively accessible, R/W mounts I could normally use from Linux. Then I would launch UAE with "local directory as hard disk" pointing to these mount points. So, no, the operating system that ran on that hardware, with PC