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South Australia AG Backs R18+ For Games, But Not MA15+

Posted by Soulskill on from the you-must-be-18-to-read-the-rest-of-this-post dept.

dotarray writes "The Australian classification debate has just gotten a little more interesting, with South Australian Attorney-General John Rau announcing that he wants to go one step further than merely introducing an R18+ rating for video games. His proposed plan would change the system to include G, PG, M and R18+ classifications (while still allowing for games to be Refused Classification or effectively banned), making a 'clear difference' between what adults can play and what is available to children."

17 of 68 comments (clear)

  1. At last some sense. by shplorb · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's about time the Labor party pulled its finger out.

    Unfortunately, this announcement is nothing more than an attempt to distract the vapid media from the SA Labor party's woes of last week:

    * The worst opinion poll in the party's history.
    * A Labor MP was arrested for child pornography offences.
    * A minister resigned without explanation less than three months into the job.

    1. Re:At last some sense. by bug1 · · Score: 2

      Its not any one party, its individual State Attorney.

      Each state Attorney seems to have a personal agenda about the issue, and it doesn't take into consideration the views of the party or the state.

      Federal government wont/cant do it without all states agreeing.

      State governments need to stand up to their AG and tell them their position is not a license to dictate morality.

    2. Re:At last some sense. by shplorb · · Score: 2

      I'm well aware of the situation as I've been following it for over half a decade since the former Attorney-General Michael Atkinson first put the kybosh on R18+.

      Unfortunately in SA the Labor party that is the government is controlled by a "Catholic right" faction. The former AG held a lot of sway in that faction until he finally went so off the rails they tapped him on the shoulder and replaced him with the current guy, so you can probably deduce why the government never directed the former AG in how to handle the issue.

      I do agree with what John Rau is proposing though as I've always wondered why we have M and MA ratings as they seem so similar.

  2. Renamed shit is still shit. by Mountaineer1024 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Just taking the existing MA15+ bracket and renaming it to R18 will not do anything meaningful.
    We have a system in this country (Australia) that claims to be about classification, but is actually about censorship!

    I (and many others) want a uniform system across all media, and unless something is illegal to make, it shouldn't be illegal to buy!

    1. Re:Renamed shit is still shit. by Mountaineer1024 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I don't know if a voluntary system would give us anything different here, the problem is that the lack of a rating within the codified guidelines result in a title being illegal to buy locally or import.

      According to the code by which these classifications are made:
      The Code
      Under the Code, classification decisions are to give effect, as far as possible, to the following principles:
      (a) adults should be able to read, hear and see what they want;
      (b) minors should be protected from material likely to harm or disturb them;
      (c) everyone should be protected from exposure to unsolicited material that they find offensive;
      (d) the need to take account of community concerns about:
      (i) depictions that condone or incite violence, particularly sexual violence; and
      (ii) the portrayal of persons in a demeaning manner.

      Look at A there and tell me how not allowing me (a 30 year old) to legally acquire something like Mortal Kombat or Left for Dead 2 is abiding by their own guidelines.

    2. Re:Renamed shit is still shit. by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Well, it's the government, so they say they won't do something, that means they'll continue to say they're not doing it as they do it. I vaguely recall some Australian government official arguing that adults don't want the games based on the fact that they're not buying them, so the censorship would be consistent with A.

      Except it wasn't the government. The government has always been for reforming the system allowing adults to buy what they want. The problem was one man. One attorney general who under law unfortunately was allowed to force his unpopular opinion on 20million people. He's gone now. R18+ rating here we come.

    3. Re:Renamed shit is still shit. by black3d · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, it will make a difference. Almost every banned game would fall under the R18 classification if such a thing existed. As it doesn't, they're refused classification and banned. Bumping MA15+ games up to R18 means while those games fall under the adult category, games previously banned because they were refused classification could be revisited and almost all would fall under the R18 classification. The most recent Mortal Kombat, for instance, was just squeezed out of the MA15+ rating, which means it's banned outright. If an R18 classification existed, it would be allowed - with an R18 classification (Meaning, no children could buy it, etc).

      You may be expressing that you believe that all games that have previously been refused classification would still be, but one of my professional acquaintances performs some of classifications. They have no hidden agenda whatsoever. They simply classify the content as they would any other content - to the best of their ability, of course. If they believe the media in a game exceeds the MA15+ classification, at present they're forced to simply refuse classification. With an R18 rating, they could slap R18 on it an be done with. As long as it's content which would get an R18 rating in any other medium, it will here. Sometimes they let games get through with the incorrect rating (they're only human, and don't play the entire games - publishers actually have to identify themselves which scenes they believe are the most violent, etc, and present those) and those get revisited and reclassified. The classifiers are not out to ban anything - they just use the classification tools available to them.

      This doesn't mean X-rated content would be allowed, however. (In most of Aus, there's no X-rating, either). So no hardcore porn games would be allowed in. Excessive violence falls under R18, with the exception of snuff - except in games it's computer graphics and not considered snuff. Oh, also no beastiality or child porn, as they're illegal.

      --
      "The true measure of a person is how they act when they know they won't get caught." - DSRilk
    4. Re:Renamed shit is still shit. by black3d · · Score: 2

      Well, that's a very real possibility. While most "shooters" would be reclassified down to M, those which glorify the violence (such as, Borderlands), and many "fighting" games would most likely be bumped up to R18 - as the distinctions would be even easier for them to make than it currently is. "If a headshot produces a blood spray, it's M. If it produces gore/brains/gibs, it's R18". Realism and glorification thereof taken into account. Maybe I'm not concerned because I'm over a decade over 18, but consider - these games are already meant to be under parental supervision at the very least.

      I don't know what (reasonable) parent out there can complain "Hey, when my kid shoots peoples heads off in computer games, they should be allowed to see the brain splatter across the wall!" What's wrong with such titles falling under R18 besides the inconvenience to minors who try to buy them?

      I've heard (and read below) the debate about how kids need to be introduced gradually to these concepts rather than having them shoved on them at 18. Well, under the M classification they can see naked couples writhing together (with boobies!) and see folks being shot (simulated) in the head! How many intermediate steps are there between that and the ability to see actual genitalia, and brain matter splatters? :) It seems like this still allows for a fairly gradual acclimation, and the arguments crying about how children are coddled is somewhat a red herring.

      --
      "The true measure of a person is how they act when they know they won't get caught." - DSRilk
    5. Re:Renamed shit is still shit. by Cimexus · · Score: 2

      Correct - it's illegal to sell RC games in Australia, but not technically illegal to buy them. Certainly an offence has occurred in such a scenario, but it's the seller who faces the music, not the buyer.

      It is not against the law to merely possess or play an RC game (or any other material for that matter) in any State or Territory except for Western Australia. What this essentially means if you can get you hands on an RC game, you aren't breaking the law (but the person who provided it to you might be).

      Personally I have a couple of RC games and I didn't even know they were RC! For instance I bought Fallout 3 (US version) while travelling to America a few years back. Returned to Australia, had fun playing it for months and only found out completely by accident that it was actually RC here. That's not an issue though, as in my State it's completely legal to own and play it. The only barrier is that Customs could technically have confiscated it at the border when I returned to Australia but in reality they don't really care about this kind of stuff. They have more important things to worry about (you know, pests, diseases and drugs etc).

  3. Very bad for children by syousef · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We keep insisting in this society that children must be protected at all costs until some magic age, when we suddenly rip away all that protection. It's clearly easier to pretend children go from 8 to 18 in one giant step than to actually teach them responsibility slowly and gradually. And then we wonder why 8 to 18 year olds go stupid and make choices that have devastating consequences, or are selfish. They've not been taught responsibility in a calm and gradual fashion. They've been treated like infants for a decade instead. What do you expect!? It's like teaching someone primary school math for a decade then expecting them to jump to vector calculus literally overnight.

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    1. Re:Very bad for children by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What a time for me not to have mod points. This is absolutely, positively, 100% correct.

      People always underestimate what children are capable of understanding. Children are naive and do not have fully developed decision making skills, but they do understand their limitations if you are honest with them. By attempting to hide everything from a child that you deem inappropriate, you lose valuable education opportunities for them.

      For example, with sex you can say that their bodies will grow faster than their ability to handle the dangers of sexual relationships. If you tell them this too late (when they are teenagers) they will take offense at it - nobody teen likes to be told that they are not ready for some things. If you want to know how to deal with a rebellious teenager, just teach them how to be a teenager before it happens. Preparation is the key.

    2. Re:Very bad for children by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Indeed! Why do the people not get this. This will push a lot of games from the MA15+ category which can be purchased by under 15 year olds only with adult supervision into the R18+ category essentially banning content from some people who the rest of the world deem of suitable maturity to consume.

      This will teach kids 2 things:

      1. They are kids until they are 18. Suck it up 2nd class citizens. While we're at it remove their driving rights (this was actually proposed along with raising the drinking age to 21).
      2. How to steal, copy, pirate, or otherwise procure content that some faceless adult regime has banned from them simply because of their current location on the world map.

  4. will do the opposite by Brain+Damaged+Bogan · · Score: 2

    his suggestion of removing MA15+ will do exactly the opposite of what he wants to do.
    all MA15+ games won't automatically be rated at R18+
    some will be recategorised as M (suggested for 15+ but not enforced) and from that point on game studios will try to bring their games in under the R18+ radar and get them categorised as M because R18+ games will require photo id (drivers licence or passport) to purchase*
    in theory MA15+ games require a student card or some form of valid ID to show the purchasers age, doesn't always happen in practice, but that's for the parent to notice and rip into the staff at the store who sold their child the game* (anecdotal reference: I remember requiring my student id to see MA movies at the theatres when I was 15, sometimes I was asked, sometimes I wasn't)

    *this is (naturally) assuming brick and mortar stores are the only way to purchase goods... and that kids don't lie about their age when signing up for a steam account...

    video game classification in Aus is a sick joke.

    --
    -- Sex is the antonym of pringles. Once you pop it's time to stop.
    1. Re:will do the opposite by Noodlenoggin · · Score: 2

      To be honest, I'm kind of fine with them removing MA15 and adding R18. That being said, I still think the system should mimic exactly that which the tv/movie/music industry adheres to. The system shouldn't need to be created from scratch again, so they really have the choice of using the same system that other media uses, or just slapping the R18 on the end to cover the gap that is missing at present. Heh, maybe the labour party has been waiting for a globalised agenda on classification rulings to appear so they can just sign that and then tell the country they've done what needed to be done. Seems to have worked so far for them.

    2. Re:will do the opposite by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      The problem with the lack of MA15+ rating is that the M rating is a recommendation not an enforceable rule. Effectively you won't introduce kids into content at an appropriate rate. They'll go right from jumping on turtle shells to ripping people's heart out in Mortal Kombat without any middle ground. They are effectively removing a rating that sits right in the middle of the bell curve of popular game titles which ends up polarizing games.

      So the end result is copying, piracy, or otherwise acquiring games that the rest of the world thinks any normal 16 year old should be able to play, but now can't because it doesn't deserve an M rating.

      The movie rating system works. Why is it so fucking hard for politicians to be consistent on policy.

  5. Out of touch by Wolfling1 · · Score: 2

    This is another clear example of how our politicians are out of touch with technology.

    They only ever needed to do one simple thing... make the ratings system the same for all kinds of media - movies, games, books, etc.

    Was that so hard? Apparently, the answer is yes.

  6. Correct me if I'm wrong by AbRASiON · · Score: 2

    but we're fucked, South Australia might now be fixed but the Victorian one is now an imbecile.

    FWIW I'm a Victorian and I was under the impression this is one of the more progressive states in the country. Can I just be frank and say,.. when will these fucking religious people die out? I'm 33 - 95% of the people I know aren't religious, we don't care about religion. It's dead, it's finished. Go away and stop putting your idiot values on others.

    Sigh.