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The Fight Against Dark Silicon

An anonymous reader writes "What do you do when chips get too hot to take advantage of all of those transistors that Moore's Law provides? You turn them off, and end up with a lot of dark silicon — transistors that lie unused because of power limitations. As detailed in MIT Technology Review, Researchers at UC San Diego are fighting dark silicon with a new kind of processor for mobile phones that employs a hundred or so specialized cores. They achieve 11x improvement in energy efficiency by doing so."

21 of 137 comments (clear)

  1. Re:huh ? by the_humeister · · Score: 2

    From the article, it seems like the processor usage would be transparent such that you don't need to explicitly target each processing element directly.

  2. That's not the solution, this is by thisisauniqueid · · Score: 5, Informative

    Language support for ubiquitous and provably threadsafe implicit parallelization -- done right -- is the answer to using generic dark silicon -- not building specialized silicon. See The Flow Programming Language, an embryonic project to do just that: http://www.flowlang.net/p/introduction.html

    1. Re:That's not the solution, this is by oliverthered · · Score: 2

      programmer-safe language.

      That's just asking for trouble,that's like saying a keyboard is safe from illiterate people because it has letters printed on the keys.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    2. Re:That's not the solution, this is by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2

      That would be so much better if it wasn't in "early design" stage. Their "no garbage collection" plan seems particularly worthwhile.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    3. Re:That's not the solution, this is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Uuum, no need to learn some obscure weird language that doesn't even exist yet, when you can learn a (less) obscure weird language that already exists. ;)

      Haskell already has provable thread-safe implicit parallelization. In more than one form even. You can just tell the compiler to make the resulting binary "-threaded". You can use thread sparks. And that's only the main implementations.

      Plus it is a language of almost orgasmic elegance on the forefront of research that still is as fast as old hag grandma C and its ugly cellar mutant C++.

      Requires the programmer to think on a higher level though. No pointer monkeys and memory management wheel reinventors. (Although you can still do both if you really want to.)

      Yes, good sir, you can *officially* call me a fanboy.
      But at least I'm a fan of something that actually exists! ;))

      (Oh, and its IRC channel is the nicest one I've ever been to. :)

    4. Re:That's not the solution, this is by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 2

      ...that's like saying a keyboard is safe from illiterate people because it has letters printed on the keys.

      Sadly, that statement is true. An illiterate person will shy away from a keyboard, an on screen (TV) menu, a newspaper, etc. the same way someone who is broke is embarrassed by the sight of a checkbook or wallet... it becomes a reflex. I know someone who is a good intuitive mechanic, but somehow managed to get to adulthood with less than third grade reading and writing skills. Left to himself, a typical 5 page job application takes a couple of hours and many phone calls to complete. Now he has a 2 year old son, and it is beginning to dawn on him that by the time the son is 8 or 9 he will be left in the dust... I can only hope he chooses to grow rather than try and retard the advancement of his son...

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    5. Re:That's not the solution, this is by oliverthered · · Score: 2

      cats are illiterate, they walk all over the bloody keyboard causing all kinds of havoc.

      "I know someone who is a good intuitive mechanic, but somehow managed to get to adulthood with less than third grade reading and writing skills.",
      quite possible the way that he learns things (ergo... schools are crap)

      I have/had that problem, in that language is generally poorly designed and people like to fuck with other peoples heads. But I worked out how they do that now and it kind of, mostly, started to sort itself out.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    6. Re:That's not the solution, this is by DurendalMac · · Score: 4, Funny

      Java is a lumbering, bloated behemoth that everyone seems to know, but far less know well. C# is what happened when Microsoft knew Java in a Biblical sense.

    7. Re:That's not the solution, this is by m50d · · Score: 2

      You're right about Haskell being a beautiful language, but it is not as fast as C/C++.

      Depends on the problem. My previous company found the Haskell proxy we wrote for testing could handle 5x the load of the best (thread-based) C++ implementation.

      --
      I am trolling
    8. Re:That's not the solution, this is by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Not to mention what is so bad about 'dark silicon' (ohhh scary name) anyway? That is how AMD Radeon chips deal with those huge amounts of stream processors, just turn off the ones that aren't being used to save power, and kick them on when you do need the muscle. Or how both AMD and Intel use the extra heat savings from turning off unneeded cores to allow a speed boost with TurboCore.

      Personally I'd rather have a device that had plenty of "dark silicon" so that it can kick it on long enough to do large jobs quicker then quickly drop back down than I would have a device with tons of specialized chips all sucking power, especially if they don't turn off when not needed (thus making them dark silicon) thus constantly trickling away juice.

      Besides didn't we go through that in the 80s with machines like Amiga, and in the 90s with Sega Saturn and the 00s with PS3? Didn't they all turn out to be more of a PITA to program? And reading TFA it seems they are saying sometime in the future you'll hit a wall on heat transfer and as you go lower down the nanometer chain the worse things will be. Well when we get to that point wouldn't the smart answer simply be to stop trying to go lower?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    9. Re:That's not the solution, this is by Jesus_666 · · Score: 2

      Whooosh. The whole sig is a collection of language abuses commonly seen on the internet.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    10. Re:That's not the solution, this is by aix+tom · · Score: 2

      Definitely. As a programmer myself, I can switch *language* pretty quick. There are even some pretty easy to use GUI tools out there where "normal non-programmers" can implement something.

      The problem is that very few people seem to be able to LOGICALLY solve a problem, that is define what should happen when certain conditions are met. Basically the definition of "what should the program do exactly?". Getting THAT defined is 90% of the "programming" problem. And that can't really be solved by different languages or different tools.

  3. Not required.. by willy_me · · Score: 5, Informative

    The CPU in a cell phone does not use much power so there is little to gain. Now if you can make more efficient radio transceivers - that would be something. Or the display, that would also significantly reduce power consumption. But adopting a new, unproven technology for minimal benefits.... That's not going to happen.

    1. Re:Not required.. by gman003 · · Score: 2

      Hell, even in laptops that's the case. I've got a high-end (well, medium-end now, but two years have gone by) gaming laptop. I've noticed that the biggest power draw is unquestionably the display - just turning the brightness down triples my battery life. Then comes turning off the wifi/bluetooth (there's a handy switch to do so), which gives me an extra half-hour. And this is while the Crysis-running CPU and graphics card are on normal gaming settings. Setting the CPU to half the clock speed barely gives me five more minutes.

    2. Re:Not required.. by rrohbeck · · Score: 2

      The CPU in a cell phone does not use much power so there is little to gain.

      Except when it's running Flash video or similar crap.

  4. Link to attached Paper about specialized cores... by file_reaper · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/users/swanson/papers/Asplos2010CCores.pdf

    They call the specialized cores "c-cores" in the paper. I took a quick skim through it. C-cores seem like a bunch of FPGA's and they take stable apps and synthesize it down to FPGA cells with the use of the OS on the fly. The C-core to hardware chain has Verilog and Synopsis in it.

    Cool tech, guess they could add gated clocking and all the other things taught in classroom to further turnoff these c-cores when needed.

    cheers.

  5. Re:Darkies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Why is it dark silicon they fight against? This represents the struggle of the black man to overcome racial prejudice and retake the word "nigger". The parallels are deep, man.

    Exactly. Why do you think green olives are in glass jars and black olives are in tin cans? So the black olives can't look out. It's subliminal racism I tell you.

  6. Re:If they can get my phone to last a week or more by RobbieThe1st · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They can, they just don't want to. All they have to do is make it slightly thicker amd double the size of the battery.
    Heck, I want to see a phone where the battery is the back cover(like the old Nokia dumbphones), and also has a small second battery inside it, something that can power the ram/cpu for 5 minutes.
    Then, you can just yank the dead battery, plug a new one in /without rebooting/.
    It would also allow for multiple battery sizes: Want a slim phone? Ok, use a small battery. Need two weeks of life? use a large battery.

    Easy solution.

  7. But what do you put in a specialized core? by Animats · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Specialized CPU elements have been tried. The track record to date is roughly this:

    • Floating point - huge win.
    • Graphics support - huge win, mostly because graphics parallelizes very well.
    • Multiple parallel integer operations on bytes of a word - win, but not not a huge win.
    • Hardware subroutine call support, such as register saving - marginal to negative. Many CPUs have had fancy CALL instructions that were slower than writing out the register saves, etc.
    • Hardware call gates - in x86, not used much.
    • Hardware context switching - in some CPUs, not used much.
    • Array instructions - once popular at the supercomputer level, now rare.
    • Compression/decompression (MPEG, etc.) - reasonable win, but may be more useful as part of a graphics device than a CPU.
    • List manipulation, LISP support, Java stack support - usually a lose over straight code.
    • Explicit parallelism, as in Itanium - usually a lose over superscalar machines.
    • Filter-type operations (Fourier transform, convolution, wavelets, etc.) - very successful, but usually more useful as part of a signal processing part than as part of a CPU.
    • Inter-CPU communication - useful, but very hard to get right. DMA to shared memory (as in the Cell) seems to be the wrong way. Infiniband, which is message passing hardware, is useful but so far only seen in high end machines.
    • Hardware CPU dispatching - has potential if connected to "hyperthreading", but historically not too successful.
    • Capability-based machines. - successful a few times (IBM System/38 being the best example) but never made it in microprocessors.

    A lot of things which you might think would help turn out to be a lose. Superscalar machines and optimizing compilers do a good job on inner loops today. (If it's not in an inner loop, it's probably not being executed enough to justify custom hardware.)

  8. Dark Silicon? by orkysoft · · Score: 2

    We can't see it, we can only detect it by its power draw, and it makes up 95% of your chips!

    --

    I suffer from attention surplus disorder.
    1. Re:Dark Silicon? by Jesus_666 · · Score: 2

      No, we can detect its mass but it doesn't interact electromagnetically with the rest of the device.

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