Sony Encourages Linux On Their Phones

Well that's nice. by Microlith · 2011-05-07 09:55 · Score: 2, Interesting

Sony-Ericsson is almost completely unrelated to SCEI. They are in many ways just as clueless (though nowhere near as malicious, apparently.)

Now if only hardware developers would start pushing their board files and drivers upstream in Linux so that porting NEW kernels to hardware wouldn't be such a bitch. Too bad Google doesn't encourage that.

Re:Well that's nice. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 10:24 · Score: 0

Clueless is the mot juste. Sony turned the T68 into the T68i... 'nuff said.
I try not to give karma-relevant points in subjective cases, but Have a Nice Day all the same.
Re:Well that's nice. by lennier1 · 2011-05-07 10:36 · Score: 4, Insightful

Sony-Ericsson is almost completely unrelated to SCEI.
First the music section installs rootkits on the computers of paying customers, then the gaming division removes OtherOS and starts a witch-hunt on GeoHot and others who want to tinker with the products they bought legally.
Sorry, but I don't have any desire to wait until the phone division finds a way to take an even bigger dump on the heads of their customer base.
Re:Well that's nice. by Boycott+BMG · 2011-05-07 10:48 · Score: 1

Sony Ericsson is owned by both Sony and Ericsson but operates as an independent entity, much like Sony-BMG was. Would it be better if it was named Ericsson-Sony instead?
Re:Well that's nice. by causality · 2011-05-07 10:56 · Score: 5, Insightful

Sony Ericsson is owned by both Sony and Ericsson but operates as an independent entity, much like Sony-BMG was. Would it be better if it was named Ericsson-Sony instead?
No, it would be better if upper management at Sony and other corporations start appreciating that once you become known for taking anti-customer actions, you're going to tarnish your name to the point that you very well may affect public perception of unrelated divisions and subsidiaries. It's exactly like the marketing concept of "branding", something the suits already understand very well. They just seem to think it only applies when they want it to.

--
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
Re:Well that's nice. by SETIGuy · 2011-05-07 12:37 · Score: 2

Don't worry, in about 6 months, the Sony part of Sony-Ericsson will find out about it, and their lawyers will put a stop to it.

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Support SETI@home
Re:Well that's nice. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 17:49 · Score: 0

I'll just throw back my legs and pollute my britches with delight.
Re:Well that's nice. by tao · 2011-05-07 21:34 · Score: 1

Both of those divisions have something in common though. They're both media divisions. It seems to be some sort of natural law that mediacorporations have to become assholes as soon as they pass a certain size. Most independent labels are awesome. All big record companies, movie conglomerates, large game developers, etc. are pissheads.
Re:Well that's nice. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-08 05:00 · Score: 0

Isn't it fairly common for companies to use Linux to get the hackers and what not to spread good word, do code work, etc., and act as advertising for the device.
Then when it no longer suits them or the device (or later versions) get mass appeal, to turn around and screw the early adopters?
Re:Well that's nice. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-08 06:37 · Score: 0

Exactly. Fuck you Sony-*
Re:Well that's nice. by mjwx · 2011-05-08 13:06 · Score: 1

Sony-Ericsson is almost completely unrelated to SCEI.
First the music section installs rootkits on the computers of paying customers, then the gaming division removes OtherOS and starts a witch-hunt on GeoHot and others who want to tinker with the products they bought legally.
Sorry, but I don't have any desire to wait until the phone division finds a way to take an even bigger dump on the heads of their customer base.
It's just SE's new revenue generation plan.
1) Tell people to install Linux on their phones.
2) Sue people for installing Linux on SE phones.
3) ??????
4) Profit.

--
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Re:Well that's nice. by cyberfin · 2011-05-09 02:20 · Score: 1

Ericsson was in no position to enforce the name priority. They had no money and needed the deal. Fast.

--
"I'm taking this loop off." - Jack O'Neill

don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by LikwidCirkel · 2011-05-07 09:55 · Score: 5, Insightful

Will they remove this feature in a few months after the phones are selling well and then call the people who still want custom software criminals and hackers? I wouldn't get my hopes up. History often repeats.

Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by Threni · 2011-05-07 10:26 · Score: 0

Unlikely, unless these phones too contain millions of dollars worth of research into making them hard to hack.
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by Dynetrekk · 2011-05-07 10:33 · Score: 2

But most importantly, you may void the warranty of your phone if you decide to unlock it
That's typical, isn't it? Please hack on it, but don't blame us if you fuck up, because it's your fault. Give us your results if you are successful, because that's cheaper than doing it ourselves. Love and kisses, Sony.
How does installing new software on a pc/phone/whatever void warranty? Oh, that's right, it doesn't if you're buying from a sensible company.
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 11:07 · Score: 0

This sort of action often requires you to flash the actual firmware to make this work, and messing with the firmware on any of these sort of small devices often carries with it a chance that you'll brick it if something goes wrong.
Screwing with the firmware almost universally this voids the warranty on hardware if it wasn't done with official firmware patches, so don't put this merely into some sort of anti-Sony sentiment. This isn't just installing a program on a PC or a phone. If you're replacing the whole operating system, it's a totally different ball of wax.
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by errandum · 2011-05-07 11:09 · Score: 3, Interesting

Well... Rooting a phone is not just "installing new software". It goes a bit beyond that. If you ruin your motherboard flashing a new ROM, custom or not, it'll still brick it and not many companies will replace it.
Just because you can access the bootloader in some way or another doesn't mean sony is responsible if you decide to fill it up with crap that then bricks your phone.
I'm more of the opinion that every phone should have a backup of it's own kernel somewhere with a one way connection. If it bricked it should just send what it had to the phone. Right now it's a bit idiotic to say you should mod your phone but not having any kind of failsafe for those who do that.
And just on a sidenote, I own a rooted Desire (CM 7 yada yada), But I'm under no illusions that if it ever malfunctions I would get any kind of help from HTC.
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by xMrFishx · 2011-05-07 11:29 · Score: 1

I'm not sure that would stick in England. I think Small Claims would just say "give him a new phone" if you ever dragged a company to it for bricking it via re-flash. Companies can't just arbitrarily say "this voids the warranty", as that's a legal requirement over here to protect the consumer. Especially if they encourage you to mod it, then they have to honour that as part of the product feature-set and therefore falls into the boundaries of things covered by warranty.
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by Dynetrekk · 2011-05-07 11:39 · Score: 1

Did any brits drag Sony in court over this due to the PS3? It sounds like they should?
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 12:05 · Score: 1

Like the Xperia Play thingy right?
Yeah, history will likely repeat on this issue. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, what the fuck was I thinking.
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 12:25 · Score: 0, Interesting

I think this undoes all the crap they've ever done. Rootkit, OtherOS, GeoHotz.. none of that matters now they've made a token gesture to let people do something they're legally allowed to do.
Sony deserves a Nobel Peace Prize for this.
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by Runaway1956 · 2011-05-07 13:03 · Score: 1

What was that? Your sarcasm just dripped off the page, I didn't read it in time.

--
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 14:32 · Score: 0

Yup.
Sony was blacklisted for me almost a decade ago. There's nothing they can do to redeem themselves. I'm curious about what hardware they're using for this, but that's the end of it.
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 15:02 · Score: 0

Well... Rooting a phone is not just "installing new software". It goes a bit beyond that. If you ruin your motherboard flashing a new ROM, custom or not, it'll still brick it and not many companies will replace it.

Are you confused? You can root your phone all day long without going anywhere near a custom ROM. You are talking about two entirely different things here.
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 15:34 · Score: 0

+1
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 17:07 · Score: 0

Was about to say that but I see this was posted hours ago so I'm a little late but cut me some slack, it's the weekend.
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 17:33 · Score: 0

My first app:
main( ) {
printf("Fuck SONY");
}
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by davester666 · 2011-05-07 18:32 · Score: 1

Well, that backup would:
a) cost some money
b) take some development time and effort to make it work right
c) take up space
The manufacturer would prefer to log the money from a) as something called "profit" on their balance sheet. They would also prefer to log the money they would have to spend on developing and debugging this capability under "profit" as well. Finally, they would prefer to use the space needed for this feature to 1) make the phone smaller, 2) make the battery larger, 3) switch some component to a cheaper/larger version and log the difference under "profit".
The fraction of end users that root their phone in a manner requiring this functionality is minuscule. "Regular" people treat their phone as an appliance, not as some dohickey thing to constantly fiddle with to make it do new things using a command line and a shell script.

--
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by DarwinSurvivor · 2011-05-07 20:45 · Score: 1

BULL. Making safe reflashable devices is TRIVIAL, companies simply don't bother. I have an n810 and not only does Nokia FULLY endorse reflashing it (and provide tools for windows/mac/linux to do so), but it was the recommended method of performing major updates until Diablo came out (which supported full updates without reflashing). All you need to do is have a very small ROM that handles the flashing, and nothing else. This ensures that no matter what happens during the flashing, it can still be reflashed.

It boggles my mind that companies (router manufacturers, I'm looking at you) put the reflashing code IN the firmware instead of somewhere safe such as a dedicated ROM. I highly doubt anyone is going to want/need to update that part of the code.
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by xMrFishx · 2011-05-07 21:20 · Score: 1

Information Commissioner's Office is currently looking into it officially. They're responsible for enforcing the Data Protection Act. I understand the ICO actually does a reasonable job for a government office too.
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by i-linux123 · 2011-05-07 22:25 · Score: 0

I've actually bricked several Nokia phones and they've always had some secret key combination during boot to restore the flash (Often the combination is so hard that you don't have enough fingers for it).
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by i-linux123 · 2011-05-07 22:30 · Score: 0

We actually pay a lot for these small devices, an extra $10 wouldn't make a difference. They often put small useless cameras in the front of the phone while the real camera is on the back, nobody ever uses the front camera.
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by aliquis · 2011-05-07 23:07 · Score: 1

How does installing new software on a pc/phone/whatever void warranty?
Probably in the sense "It doesn't boot since you fucked up the installation process / installed faulty software? We can't spend our time and resources fixing that!"
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 23:25 · Score: 0

I was just trying to point out how people forgive companies like Sony, Google & Apple for all the evil crap they pull because they get a shiny penny.
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by Eunuchswear · 2011-05-08 02:31 · Score: 1

Uh, so you didn't brick the phones.
Bricks don't have unlock combinations.

--
Watch this Heartland Institute video
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by drolli · 2011-05-08 07:01 · Score: 1

Sony is running most new consumer devices under linux. For none besides the playstation anything was revoked.
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by HiThere · 2011-05-08 07:51 · Score: 2

Given the *way* they revoked the PlayStation capability, once is more than enough. Of course, that wasn't once. That came after the rootkits that they released on CDs. That came after the official comment (paraphrase)"Most users don't know what a rootkit is, so it doesn't matter.". That came after SONY tried to pass the blame onto another company that they hired specifically to do that job. That came after the repairs to the rootkit that left you vulnerable to any web site you visited. There were several other instances. SONY was already on my "Do not patronize" list before this started happening for other actions which were, relatively, so minor that I've forgotten them.
O yes, and SONY always will fight in court rather than pay even minimal compensation to people it has injured. This is reasonable on their behalf, because they courts generally won't make them pay damages.
If you want to do business with them, I'm not the one who will get hurt.

--

I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by drolli · 2011-05-08 09:22 · Score: 1

I am not hurt. I did not buy a PS3 as a Linux system and gaming machine at the same time. Whoever did so is stupid. One thing i have learned in my life: If you are the smaller customer group affecting the larger customer group in any way, you lose if your interests collide. Never rely on a technical solution under these circumstances, and if you do, reserve the resources to dedicate duplicate resources in some way. Thats it. Don't buy consumer lines if you want to use something professionally unless you have a alternate source for it. Nevertheless, i think the customers should get some refund.
I am a very happy user of a Sony Reader running under linux and and i dont feel restricted or something.
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-05-08 13:54 · Score: 1

BULL. Making safe reflashable devices is TRIVIAL, companies simply don't bother.
Given that it's not the intended use scenario for vast majority of their customers, why should they bother?
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by Agripa · 2011-05-09 01:43 · Score: 1

One thing i have learned in my life: If you are the smaller customer group affecting the larger customer group in any way, you lose if your interests collide. Never rely on a technical solution under these circumstances, and if you do, reserve the resources to dedicate duplicate resources in some way.
Sony, other unwieldy companies, and their large customer groups may have learned a lesson as well . . . bwhahahahaha . . . who am I kidding?
One thing I have learned in my life: If you are the larger customer group affecting the technically proficient smaller customer group in any way, you lose when your interests collide. Never rely on a large company's technical proficiency under these circumstances, and if you do, reserve the resources to dedicate duplicate entertainment in some way.
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by i-linux123 · 2011-05-10 20:53 · Score: 0

They have several boot modes. Here's an example: http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1424826-E71-Hard-Reset-Is-there-any-difference-between-2-codes The first one is an unlock code, the second type has restored my phones even when they refused to boot due to errors during the flashing, I'd say that is bricked if it fails half-way during the flashing and the phone doesn't boot anymore.
Re:don't fall for this, hacker suckers. by DarwinSurvivor · 2011-05-14 10:46 · Score: 1

No, that is non-booting. Bricked means the phone is (pending an magical bolt of lightning from the almighty Zeus himself) is no longer any more valuable than a shiny brick.

I tried that once... by Delgul · 2011-05-07 09:55 · Score: 5, Informative

It was called OtherOS. Never again...

Re:I tried that once... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 10:39 · Score: 0

Exactly. Why on *earth* would I trust them again. Seriously are they following a step by step guuid in how to get 0 traction getting devs behind it.
*IF* they started with "im sorry" and put it back on the ps3, they *might* get some to look at it.
Re:I tried that once... by errandum · 2011-05-07 11:12 · Score: 0

I don't think this is the same company at all. Ericsson was the phone company they bought and I bet they are still the ones doing the phones. I would also say they are the ones with this kind of philosophy, not Sony itself.
Re:I tried that once... by Osgeld · 2011-05-07 12:03 · Score: 1

yea but Sony is in the picture, instant out
Re:I tried that once... by JanneM · 2011-05-07 12:17 · Score: 0

They didn't buy Ericsson. Sony Ericsson is a separate company, jointly owned by Sony and by Ericsson. And fortunately apparently not much infused with the Sony corporate misculture.

--
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Re:I tried that once... by cpscotti · 2011-05-07 13:04 · Score: 1

no no... the one doing that is Stephen Elop!
Re:I tried that once... by CronoCloud · 2011-05-07 13:12 · Score: 1

Sony's divisions are semi-independent, even within divisions such as SCE. It was SCE's hardware people that wanted OtherOS, and SCE's software people (the ones that sell and market PS3 games) that killed it. Heck, one part of Sony didn't like the fact that the PSP plays MP3's!, but SCE insisted on the feature, though they threw that part of Sony a bone by having it play ATRAC as well. Also SCE made MP3 the default ripping format of the PS3, not ATRAC.
Sony is paranoid about piracy because they also make practically every kind of media content, movies, music, games. So the hardware and media divisions of Sony are constantly feuding. (Sony BMG did NOT like Minidisc and insisted on certain features in SACD)
So lay off of SCE, okay.
Re:I tried that once... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 14:42 · Score: 0

"So lay off of SCE"
SCE is 'Sony', same thing. For the purpose of evaluating the products, I don't think anyone will really care that a different division of 'Sony' is responsible for the mistakes, they were still mistakes perpetrated by 'Sony.' Such is the fate of being one of a 'company.'
Re:I tried that once... by larry+bagina · 2011-05-07 15:09 · Score: 1

I remember what happened when I bought a PS3 to run linux and play online games.

--
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Re:I tried that once... by Maestro4k · 2011-05-07 15:42 · Score: 2

They didn't buy Ericsson. Sony Ericsson is a separate company, jointly owned by Sony and by Ericsson. And fortunately apparently not much infused with the Sony corporate misculture.
Doesn't matter, for many of us the sheer fact that Sony is in the company's name, along with Sony's past behavior, is enough to make us steer way, way clear of anything to do with the company. Besides, Sony obviously has some kind of stake in the company (given the name), so who's to say they wouldn't buy out Ericsson's stake in the future and take it over? Pretty much nothing, it's easily doable if Sony decides it wants to, and they're obviously interested in the venture or they wouldn't have a stake in it. So those of us that don't trust Sony at all will continue to avoid Sony Ericsson as well.
Re:I tried that once... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 15:43 · Score: 0

Sony's divisions are semi-independent, even within divisions such as SCE. It was SCE's hardware people that wanted OtherOS, and SCE's software people (the ones that sell and market PS3 games) that killed it.
Who cares? "It's a Sony"
Re:I tried that once... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 16:41 · Score: 0

NO, we will not "lay off" anything Sony. Sony screwed up... many times. I don't care which division/sector/department did it. Those four letters now have a rap sheet of screwing over their customers. And any division/sector/department connected to those four letters _deserves_ the tarnished image they have. Don't want it? Sell off the division or call it something else. As long as they are affiliated with Sony, they get the good, bad, and the ugly.
Your excuse I can get with partners, like Microsoft & Intel, or Delta & Air France. But we are talking about one company here, even if it is a conglomerate.
Re:I tried that once... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 16:45 · Score: 0

Then they should be broken up as a vertical monopoly tat has abused its' position and harmed the public/consumers...
Re:I tried that once... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 17:54 · Score: 0

OtherOS was about buying a Cell-based computer and also being able to use it for some games. So it did have some unique features. Sone did sell the product as such proposition and then went on to damage value of things that were legitimately bought from them.
About rewarding good behaviour - Sony has one way to behave well, selling its saner parts. What we should reward is something with any reasons to believe. I did buy Nokia N810 (Nokia did everything possible to sell fewer of them, while making them great pieces of hardware with sane approach to software) - it's not our fault they hired Elop to sell Nokia to MS for mere 10^9 USD. I guess you can find an easy-to-flash phone from average-reputation company now. As for Sony - there is such thing as event horizon, they crossed it and created another one inside it and crossed it too.
Re:I tried that once... by PReDiToR · 2011-05-07 18:09 · Score: 1

So there's a guy with a skinhead and a T-shirt walking along and you're behind him.
A cute little kitty cat comes up to him and starts rubbing round his ankles, being friendly. You're shocked and dismayed when he grins wickedly and kicks the sweet little cat.
You are still behind him when you see a small dog panting and wagging its tail, obviously pleased to see a human. This awful man kicks the puppy. Again, your shock and dismay is palpable, but you already have his number, you knew he wasn't a nice guy.
You see him walk up to a rabbit, what do you think he will do to it?

Fool me once, you're a funny guy.
Fool me twice, you're an asshole and I'll not have anything more to do with you.
If I'm stupid enough to interact with you a third time I deserve everything I get.

Fuck you Sony. Have a crap day.

--

Do not meddle in the affairs of geeks for they are subtle and quick to anger
Re:I tried that once... by Mysteray · 2011-05-07 18:13 · Score: 1

Sony's divisions are semi-independent...So lay off of SCE, okay.
No, actually this makes me adverse to things with just Ericsson's name on it too.
Re:I tried that once... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 19:43 · Score: 0

Which company has the largest share? If it is Sony they have the same boss.
Re:I tried that once... by lederhosen · 2011-05-07 20:27 · Score: 1

Sony Corporation (50%)
Ericsson AB (50%)
Re:I tried that once... by Alef · 2011-05-08 06:40 · Score: 1

[...] so who's to say they wouldn't buy out Ericsson's stake in the future and take it over?
So what? Most people change cell phones every other year or so, and realistically that kind of deal would take some time to take effect, so there'd be plenty of time to jump ship later, if that's what you care about.

Pretty much nothing, it's easily doable if Sony decides it wants to, and they're obviously interested in the venture or they wouldn't have a stake in it.
By that logic, Ericsson might equally well be the one buying out Sony's share.
When Sony and Ericsson went into the joint venture in 2001, Ericsson was the one making the phones. Sony didn't have any market share to speak of. On the other hand, Sony owned a huge patent portfolio and camera technology, something Ericsson wanted to have access to at the time (or so the word went). So Sony Ericsson was essentially created out of Ericsson's mobile phone division, with both parent companies owning 50% each. Nevertheless, I'd say the phones still remain more Ericsson than Sony.
Re:I tried that once... by HiThere · 2011-05-08 07:55 · Score: 1

SONY BMG is a separate company too. So what? They share common executives and executive policy. And profits.
If you want to trust them, it's your neck. Just don't say you weren't warned.

--

I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.

I like Linux by symbolset · 2011-05-07 09:56 · Score: 1

But I wouldn't buy a Sony phone even if it came straight with Linux. Too much Sony downside these days. And they might decide to change it later.

--
Help stamp out iliturcy.

Re:I like Linux by Threni · 2011-05-07 10:29 · Score: 2

I'm sort of the other way around. I don't like Sony, but I take each product on its merits and wouldn't cut off my nose to spite my face just because they did this or that in the past.
Re:I like Linux by symbolset · 2011-05-07 10:49 · Score: 1

Well there you go. When I'm deciding whether or not to hang out with a guy I look at how he treats the other people in his life right now. People with too much unpleasantness and drama just aren't any fun to be around even if they are otherwise interesting or helpful.

--
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Re:I like Linux by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 10:56 · Score: 1

The PS3 was a device that could run Linux, and people bought it despite Sony's history. Sony *removed* that advertised functionality. So one must take into account a bit more than just the advertised functionality when buying a product.
Re:I like Linux by jenningsthecat · 2011-05-07 10:58 · Score: 1

I don't like Sony, but I take each product on its merits and wouldn't cut off my nose to spite my face just because they did this or that in the past.
There's something to what you say, but OTOH there's such a thing as being a chump. This situation reminds me of the old 'wallet on a string' gag. Continuing to reach for the wallet is simply optimism, however PAYING the joker in the bushes to keep jerking (your) string probably makes you a sucker.

--
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
Re:I like Linux by CronoCloud · 2011-05-07 13:18 · Score: 1

sigh, OtherOS was never "Advertised" yes, it was mentioned in the users manual, but that's not advertising. Neither is it getting mention on Kotaku or Slashdot.
The majority of people buying PS3's didn't give a damn about OtherOS and never used it...so it makes not one whit of difference for them. The Slim's also never had OtherOS as part of the efford to get the price down. You remember the biggest complaint abou thte PS3 right, the price? So they take out OtherOS that very few people used and people still complain.
Sure, I had YDL on my PS3, but it's not that big of a deal, I understand why they did it, and can live without OtherOS with only a bit of minor grumbling on my part.
Re:I like Linux by Khyber · 2011-05-07 14:22 · Score: 1

Bullshit, OtherOS was advertised DIRECTLY ON THE GAME BOX.
Wonder why pictures of that are almost impossible to find, now?

--
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Re:I like Linux by CronoCloud · 2011-05-07 14:46 · Score: 1

I call bullshit on you! I still have my PS3 box a CECHE01 MGS4 model and it doesn't mention OtherOS on the box. Check your box, I've had this same conversation with another person on Slashdot, who checked and admitted their mistake.
It is, of course, mentioned in the thicker user manual,(which was also available via the PS3's browser) but not the quick guide.
Re:I like Linux by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 15:43 · Score: 0

Check the definition of advertised as defined by the FTC. OtherOS' fame may not fit your definition of advertisement, but it does fit the FTC's:
[ http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/baitads-gd.htm ]
Notice the footnote at the bottom. Though it may possibly be true that it was not aggressively advertised, simply appearing in the manual probably would be sufficient 'advertising.'
Re:I like Linux by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 16:47 · Score: 0

Perhaps it was not a widely-advertised feature, but listing it in the game manual holds a lot more weight than mentioning it on a blog, so I would strongly advise against purchasing a Sony phone based on this article's statement that they are "encouraging" Linux.
Re:I like Linux by fremean · 2011-05-07 16:59 · Score: 2

it was clearly marketed because I got wind of it - and if you knew the life I live (no tv, no radio, don't read the news paper) you'd understand that it's some pretty potent marketing if it's going to reach me.
My decision to purchase a PS3 (the only console I've ever purchased) came as a direct result of it having OtherOS and giving me something to play with.
As far as I'm concerned, Sony sold me a 4 legged table to eat breakfast off and do my homework on, then snuck into my house late one night and chopped off one of the legs leaving a note saying that the 4th leg was a security risk and the table still holds breakfast even if it might not hold books.
Re:I like Linux by Nursie · 2011-05-07 19:38 · Score: 1

I don't like Sony, but I'll still give them money if they make something shiny
FTFY.
Personally I feel they've been behaving badly enough that I feel it's against my own interests to give them my money, regardless of how shiny the latest gadget is.
There is no such thing as a context-free purchase.
Re:I like Linux by hawkinspeter · 2011-05-08 01:28 · Score: 2

OtherOS was directly advertised as a feature. They've slightly amended the page, but the details are still there: http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html

--
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
Re:I like Linux by Khyber · 2011-05-08 03:01 · Score: 1

Very first-gen boxes directly advertised OtherOS DIrectly on the box. Second revision (moving to the half software/half hardware BC) ditched that.
You don't own a first-gen machine. I do. The VERY reason I bought it was because I saw OtherOS on the side of the box.

--
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Re:I like Linux by CronoCloud · 2011-05-08 14:49 · Score: 1

Prove it. I saw early PS3 boxes, and they didn't mention OtherOS. I just think you're mis-remembering out of personal bias over OtherOS.
Re:I like Linux by Khyber · 2011-05-11 02:56 · Score: 1

Nope.
Go read your box "design and specifications subject to change withotu notice"
Also, Sony Representatives at CONFERENCES talking SPECIFICALLY about how OtherOS was an essential part of the PS3 doesn't count as an advertisement?
I'd hate to live in your Bizarro world.
Thank god I actually attend these kinds of conferences, so I'm likely in a much better position to speak than you. What was directly advertised to the public is not what was sold by Sony. If you kept your head in the sand long enough to not know this, that's not my fault.

--
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Re:I like Linux by CronoCloud · 2011-05-11 05:10 · Score: 1

Go read your box "design and specifications subject to change withotu notice"
That's not a reference to OtherOS.

Also, Sony Representatives at CONFERENCES talking SPECIFICALLY about how OtherOS was an essential part of the PS3 doesn't count as an advertisement?
Sony reps at geek conferences mentioning OtherOS that only got reported on sites like Slashdot is not advertising. If Sony had bought ad time on CNN to trumpet OtherOS that would be a different story.

I'd hate to live in your Bizarro world.
The world where the word advertising means promotional time and space from a second party aimed at a market, that is paid for?

As I said, Sony mentioning a feature to a few nerds is not advertising. But Sony did NOT market such features with actual large sums of money. Sure a few tech journalists and nerds reported it...but it's not like Sony bought 60 second spots on NBC to tell people that if they bought a PS3 their kid could not only play games but do their homework with OpenOffice/Abiword. Did Sony do some minor promotion of OtherOS to the nerd community? Yes, but that's not advertising.

Now I don't feel like such a chump... by telekon · 2011-05-07 09:56 · Score: 1

...for buying an Xperia X10a. Although maybe I will after I RTFA.

Then again, maybe this is all a clever strategy to get Android hackers to develop updated OSs for their phones, since they can't seem to manage it in a timely fashion.

--

To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion.

Re:Now I don't feel like such a chump... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 11:01 · Score: 1

X10 is updated to 2.1 currently, ask your carrier if you haven't got the update. It will additionally be updated to 2.3 this summer.
All current Sony Ericsson mobiles are launching with 2.3. They were the first to do so besides Google's own devphone.
Re:Now I don't feel like such a chump... by silly_sysiphus · 2011-05-07 11:59 · Score: 1

Also, if you're stuck on marvellous AT&T, you won't get the update. In which case, you can debrand the phone and get the stock SE 2.1 firmware (can be done by oneself or can buy the service from DaVinci, Wotan, etc...)

So.. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 09:57 · Score: 0

Are Sony good or bad now? Or is it that I shouldn't buy their Playstation but I should buy their phone?

Re:So.. by 91degrees · 2011-05-07 10:08 · Score: 3, Informative

Perhaps you should make up your own mind. This is just information. It's not a decision.
Re:So.. by oliverthered · 2011-05-07 20:35 · Score: 1

debate

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thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Re:So.. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-09 14:02 · Score: 0

Sony is anti-humanity and pro-bad things.

For Now by _xeno_ · 2011-05-07 09:57 · Score: 1

Not that this needs to be said, but it should be said anyway:

For now.

It's Sony. I'm not sure how they'll take away the ability to boot Linux on phones that are running it, but they'll find a way. At the very least, one of the firmware updates to the existing software will remove the ability to install Linux, you can guarantee that.

--
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.

Re:For Now by somersault · 2011-05-07 10:08 · Score: 1

The blog just explains how to do something that people have been doing for years - rooting/reflashing your phone with 3rd party tools. I've done this on several phones. They can't stop it happening. They also point out that it "may" invalidate your warranty.

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which is totally what she said
Re:For Now by Microlith · 2011-05-07 10:14 · Score: 2

The blog just explains how to do something that people have been doing for years - rooting/reflashing your phone with 3rd party tools. I've done this on several phones. They can't stop it happening.
Sure they can. All they have to do is what Motorola did, and while they can't stop you from rooting your phone, they can make real upgrades impossible. All it requires is for Android to be dependent on some new kernel feature, and suddenly you're forced to either do nasty workarounds or do without.
Re:For Now by somersault · 2011-05-07 10:31 · Score: 1

I'm not aware of what situation you're talking about. I'm guessing you're talking about not releasing drivers for new versions of an OS, but that doesn't stop custom versions of the old OS. You can't expect the hardware manufacturer to provide support forever. You should only buy a device if you're happy with it as it is, and treat the upgrades as a bonus. With some manufacturers/devices you can be more confident of upgrades being made available though. I bought a Xoom over any other honeycomb tablet precisely because it's so well known, and therefore I thought it would be more likely to get upgrades in future (though like I said, I'm happy with it "as is" really). Have Motorola made a habit of not providing upgrades for their devices?

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which is totally what she said
Re:For Now by Microlith · 2011-05-07 10:39 · Score: 2

I'm guessing you're talking about not releasing drivers for new versions of an OS, but that doesn't stop custom versions of the old OS.
No. I'm talking about the fact that Android requires changes to the kernel that aren't the same between every revision, and if a newer version of Android requires that kernel then you either have to hack around that dependency or you have to do without whatever required it.

You can't expect the hardware manufacturer to provide support forever.
Which is totally irrelevant to the point I made in this post, and relevant to a different one where I said they should put up the effort to get their board support file and drivers in the upstream, which means users could possibly support themselves. This is about Motorola's anti-modder efforts which forces you to be dependent upon them.

Have Motorola made a habit of not providing upgrades for their devices?
Many of their devices have received none. Some got versions of Android from a year prior. And regardless, when Motorola decides to stop supporting your device, you're shit out of luck and should buy a new one like a good consumer should.
Re:For Now by WuphonsReach · 2011-05-07 13:15 · Score: 1

It's Sony. I'm not sure how they'll take away the ability to boot Linux on phones that are running it, but they'll find a way. At the very least, one of the firmware updates to the existing software will remove the ability to install Linux, you can guarantee that.

And it's also a large company, with many divisions, many management layers, and the left hand often doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

So it doesn't surprise me when you see actions that are almost the polar opposite of another division.

--
Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
Re:For Now by JayAEU · 2011-05-07 15:17 · Score: 1

The trouble with Motorola is that they hardly offer updates for their recent devices and prevent the owners from updating themselves by encrypting the bootloader so that it only accepts kernels cryptographically signed by Motorola.
Nobody expects Motorola to offer infinite support for outdated devices, but they should at least acknoledge that not everyone wants to follow their idea of product life cycle and thus might be interested in an open device that allows for 3rd party firmware images to be installed.
Re:For Now by somersault · 2011-05-07 22:09 · Score: 1

Thanks for explaining. The other guy seemed a bit cranky that I'd dare to buy a consumer device.

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which is totally what she said

This isn't that unusual by jimicus · 2011-05-07 10:03 · Score: 5, Insightful

It is absolutely commonplace to find that in companies the size of Sony, different divisions are effectively operated as wholly separate companies and about the only thing they share is the company name and logo.

Separate directors, separate budgets, in some cases even separate legal entities. It shouldn't be too surprising to find they have different attitudes to things like this.

Re:This isn't that unusual by somersault · 2011-05-07 10:14 · Score: 2

Don't try to talk sense, they'll just flame you.. :p even in the small business where I work, the depts are vastly different, with different directors and budgets like you say, as well as different cultures/morality.

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which is totally what she said
Re:This isn't that unusual by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 10:17 · Score: 0

SonyEricsson != Sony. Different company. Different engineers. Different management.
Re:This isn't that unusual by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 10:36 · Score: 0

Not if this turns out to be a clear success in an increased number developers working on their platforms.
More apps, more buzz, more sales.
Besides one may think that ericsson which owns 50% of the company would have a thing or 2 to say about removing a feature that has created a lot of good press and word of mouth.
Re:This isn't that unusual by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 10:41 · Score: 0

But Sony BMG = ... Oh I give up this is slashdot afterall
Re:This isn't that unusual by Undead+Waffle · 2011-05-07 12:16 · Score: 1

Yes but ultimately they are still the same company and you have to worry about the company deciding that the VP who did such a great job at maximizing profits in division X should take a shot at division Y. It's not the guys implementing the features that make the decision to remove them.
That said this is a different situation, being a joint venture and all.
Re:This isn't that unusual by JanneM · 2011-05-07 12:20 · Score: 2

different divisions are effectively operated as wholly separate companies
And in this case, of course, it really is a wholly separate company, owned 50-50 by Sony and Ericsson, and based out of Sweden, one continent away from Sony headquarters.

--
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Re:This isn't that unusual by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 12:41 · Score: 0

Oh, yes, I agree with you. But I don't want to try each heap of something just to find the one heap which tastes good. Sony pissed me off too often to give them another chance to feed me dirt. I don't want to make business with them anymore.
cb
Re:This isn't that unusual by index0 · 2011-05-07 15:32 · Score: 1

"It shouldn't be too surprising to find they have different attitudes to things like this."
It also shouldn't be too surprising to find it believable that they might later remove this feature.
Re:This isn't that unusual by YoopDaDum · 2011-05-07 21:11 · Score: 2

Absolutely. Plus the fact that for Android smartphones SE is the underdog and need something to catch up. Typically the underdog is the one having the most incentive to open the platform to differentiate themselves. See Sprint, pushing more openness compared to Verizon/AT&T (no cap, Google Voice...). It's just the same thing here for handsets. And it's important that these underdogs have some amount of success, as in the end this is how a platform move toward more and more openness. The leaders typically would prefer locking everything tight to extract the more money out of everything. Only the underdogs will accept sacrificing this because they have nothing to loose. So I understand many people have upset with Sony, but this kind of attitude should be encouraged even if it's not taken for idealistic reasons at all...
Re:This isn't that unusual by drinkypoo · 2011-05-08 01:19 · Score: 0

Separate directors, separate budgets, in some cases even separate legal entities. It shouldn't be too surprising to find they have different attitudes to things like this.
It doesn't work that way, because Sony Corporate is the ultimate arbiter over all of these corporations. They are slow, but they are final. Sony is still one organization, it is simply schizophrenic.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Xperia! by M0j0_j0j0 · 2011-05-07 10:05 · Score: 1

Help me on this , but, how can an Xperia cost 500€ ???? it's completely crazy! it's almost double a PS3!

Re:Xperia! by El_Muerte_TDS · 2011-05-07 10:09 · Score: 1

The PS3 is sold below cost. Sony hopes to recoup the loss through sales of games (with it about $/€10 per game sold iirc).
Re:Xperia! by karnal · 2011-05-07 10:11 · Score: 1

That's probably the unsubsidized cost of the Xperia. If you think about it, the PS3 is subsidized - via game purchases.

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Karnal
Re:Xperia! by Microlith · 2011-05-07 10:12 · Score: 1

Most smartphones, when sold off contract, cost that much. Even in Europe.
No, they aren't actually worth that much but that seems to be the sustainable price for unlocked devices.
Re:Xperia! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 10:22 · Score: 0

No it isn't. It was at launch, but they've been raking it in for a couple of years on hardware alone. Stop spouting shit, and learn to read financial statements.
Re:Xperia! by Legion303 · 2011-05-07 12:45 · Score: 1

"The PS3 is sold below cost."
You must have traveled here from two years in the past, when the PS3 was still sold below cost. Welcome, time traveler!

Wow, this is really exciting! by drinkypoo · 2011-05-07 10:09 · Score: 1

In a year or two when these start showing up cheap at flea markets I will pick one up for the hack potential. Thanks, Sony! I will enjoy buying your castoffs! Please bring out lots of these with high resolution touch displays! kthxbye!

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Sony Mylo and Mylo 2 (?) boot to Linux. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 10:14 · Score: 0

Sure, it is closed-source and Sony has denied all requests for Documentation, but that is just the double-sword of Open Source stalking the buyer: Sony does shit to their products as though to entice lawsuits that they are most-likely forecasting for their ability to set legal precedants in favor of their business model. Just a Sony Mylo at time of market value was around $300, and unlike a Laptop you are denied from making full use of your hardware: clearly, Sony is the pioneer in retaining some form of ownership over the property they allegedly sell. I suppose Motorolla and the rest of the prison-Cell Phone companies are right next to Sony on this, yet the goal seems to be they are protecting something in their product that U.S. Government licenses to them. All along the lines of Sony is the taint of U.S. Government in the background, like how Microsoft directed SCO to file lawsuits to harass Linux and Open Source developers.

track record by marcello_dl · 2011-05-07 10:14 · Score: 4, Interesting

I do not think sony will pull another stunt with the phones. They made enough trouble for their users already.

But I am not gonna buy stuff from them, they showed no respect, I show no interest.
Or I should say "they show no respect" because blaming anonymous for a stolen data case without no solid proof sounds like a tactic to deflect attention from the lousy way they lost data or push the equation hacking=bad, which has many more counterexamples than the equation corporation=bunch of psychos.

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---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol

Re:track record by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 10:42 · Score: 0

I could not have put it so succinctly as you did; "They showed me no respect, I show them no interest". Beautiful. That is probably the best, non-inflammatory statement I could ever say about those miscreants. I go all the way back to the root-kit of Windows any time one of their infected music disks were put into a CD drive. How DARE they pull stunts like that! The fact that several of their executives all the way down to anyone that had knowledge of it NOT get arrested is simply reprehensible. I know that if I were to sell something and what I sold included embedded malware that affected machines it was installed on, someone would be hauling me off in cuffs.
I patently refuse to buy anything that has a Sony label anymore. "I work for Sony" is a statement, that if uttered in a public gathering, should result in getting punched in the throat...
Re:track record by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 13:25 · Score: 0

I do not think sony will pull another stunt with the phones. They made enough trouble for their users already.
I do not think Sony will yank Other OS from existing PlayStation 3's. They made enough trouble for their users with the music CD root kits already.
Re:track record by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 20:32 · Score: 0

After the rootkit fiasco, I did not think Sony would pull a stunt with the PS3. But they did.
Re:track record by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-08 00:52 · Score: 0

What about fool me once: shame on you. Fool me twice: can't fool me again?

Android is barely "Linux"... by the+linux+geek · 2011-05-07 10:16 · Score: 2, Interesting

Android barely qualifies as a form of "Linux." Yes, it uses a Linux kernel, but the fact is largely incidental - there's no real technical reason that Android couldn't be built on BSD or even WinCE if Google or an OEM wanted it. It isn't close to POSIX-compatible, it only runs "managed" (VM-based) apps, and it isn't even open-source as of 3.0.

Of course, this will result in a wave of posts about how Google loves open-source, about how Linux is Linux, and how Google has assured us that the 3.0 source is coming Real Soon Now...

Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 10:25 · Score: 0

The only reason Google hasn't released the 3.0 source code is so manufacturers can actually try to sell their products first, without the rest of us hacking Honeycomb onto phones, galaxy tabs, nook colors, and the like. On a related note I think currently available hardware can run Honeycomb, but poorly, and Google doesn't want consumers to think that HC is a slow hunk of junk just because it'll churn along on a 1ghz ARM processor with a shitty graphics processor.
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by the+linux+geek · 2011-05-07 10:27 · Score: 2

Whether or not that's the reason, a product without released source code just isn't open-source, and no amount of rationalizing it will change that.
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 10:28 · Score: 0

> it only runs "managed" (VM-based) apps
No, the android NDK allows you to write native code. It's a complete pain - if you know about real Java imagine the only way to write a native app was via writing a library then calling it via the Java JNI, and you'll have the basic idea, except that it's not the JNI you use, of course, it's a similar but not identical Dalvik thing. But on the whole, you can write native code. In fact if you want to make a high-performance OpenGL ES based game, you'd better be doing that, and shipping arm5, arm7 and maybe now x86 (for atom-based devices) native libraries).
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by the+linux+geek · 2011-05-07 10:30 · Score: 1

I know how the NDK works. It's still managed by the VM, just like Managed C++ on .NET.
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by nedlohs · 2011-05-07 10:39 · Score: 1

And no one did rationalize or claim it wasn't (right here, I'm sure people have elsewhere). Can't you wait for your predicted wave of posts before going off on your rant?
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by thegarbz · 2011-05-07 10:42 · Score: 1

As long as you're consistent and revise your view when the Honeycomb source is eventually released as Google has said they would, then we'll get along just fine. Just don't be a hypocrite and keep citing this negative opinion once it is actually open source.
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 10:45 · Score: 0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Managed_Extensions_for_C%2B%2B#Design

applications written in Managed C++ compile to CIL â" Common Intermediate Language â" and not directly to native CPU instructions like regular C++ applications do.
The NDK in contrast, allows compilation of native arm libraries. The application as a whole is running "in" the VM, like a Java app that calls a JNI interface, but it's definitely executing actual native code. This is readily apparent looking at the sample apps. sample apps
Or were you just confusing the NDK and SDK?
http://developer.android.com/sdk/ndk/index.html
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by the_humeister · 2011-05-07 10:48 · Score: 2

Android barely qualifies as a form of "Linux." Yes, it uses a Linux kernel, but the fact is largely incidental - there's no real technical reason that Android couldn't be built on BSD or even WinCE if Google or an OEM wanted it. It isn't close to POSIX-compatible, it only runs "managed" (VM-based) apps, and it isn't even open-source as of 3.0.
What are you even talking about? Here's the problem when referring to "Linux" as the system rather than using the term to refer to the kernel. Take Debian for example. Is it "Linux"? What if you replace the kernel with the FreeBSD kernel, does that still qualify or not? A much better way to describe these systems is by the distribution name, and the second best way is to describe them by the core system itself. So, for example, Debian 6.0, Slackware, and Gentoo are GNU systems that is usually running on top of the Linux kernel.
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by the+linux+geek · 2011-05-07 10:50 · Score: 1

In Android, the VM normally manages NDK classes just like Java classes, so that it can do things like GC'ing them to kill up resources.
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by Superken7 · 2011-05-07 10:53 · Score: 2

What do you mean, it just happens to run a linux kernel? Linux is a kernel! (and nothing more)

"Android barely qualifies as a form of "Linux." Yes, it uses a Linux kernel, but the fact is largely incidental - there's no real technical reason that Android couldn't be built on BSD or even WinCE if Google or an OEM wanted it."

Debian barely qualifies as a form of "Linux." Yes, it uses a Linux kernel, but the fact is largely incidental - there's no real technical reason that Debian couldn't be built on BSD or even WinCE if Google or an OEM wanted it.

Oops, wait: there is Debian GNU/NetBSD and the like...

C'mon, Android is linux with an application layer over it. Just like most distributions are a kernel with more layers+apps on top. It is as much a form of linux as any other distribution.

Android just happens to have set a tight control on what apps can do and cannot by limiting them to the API the framework offers. And frankly, I wished linux distributions agreed on such a standard, too. Maybe that way apps would be easier to code, apps could be reused across distributions, and app quality would hopefully improve (due to the application layer providing a better abstraction). I think that would help adoption on the desktop, and sure as hell it would reduce the vast amount of "fragmentation" the linux desktop community currently suffers from. IMHO.
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by ndogg · 2011-05-07 10:57 · Score: 2

What is Linux?
No, seriously, what is Linux?
In spite of all his craziness, RMS and the FSF are right about one thing, Linux is just a kernel. Ubuntu, Red Hat, Suse, etc. could all be built on a different kernel. In fact, just to prove the point, Debian built a port of their OS to a version using the FreeBSD kernel.
So, IMO, anything using the Linux kernel, POSIX-compatible or not, is a Linux OS. Otherwise, you're playing pedantics.

--
// file: mice.h
#include "frickin_lasers.h"
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 10:58 · Score: 0

Google isn't as bad in many- or at least some ways as the competition for its main products and that is what fuels its success. It also does some things much much better even if still other things are repugnant. Google's search for instance is good. That isn't to say it has ethics though for being neutral or is perfect. Nor can they be appreciated for it's respect for privacy. They have clearly done many things to thwart those seeking privacy. None of them may be an outright attack although they certainly have made it difficult to impossible to retain privacy which we once had because of how the older technology worked. All in all I say avoid Google except where one has only worse options and it's something that is unavoidable. I no longer read Yahoo! News for instance. Sadly nothing else compares to it. Not Google and certainly not Microsoft. What is left? The BBC. How this is that I'm getting all my non-tech news from them I don't know. It's a sad state of affairs. Google's Picassa is horrendous product from a proprietary point of view. I have no really acceptable alternatives though to recommend. It would be nice if someone partly duplicated it without the proprietary databases and used standards for tagging pictures in ways other applications could interpret. It has printing options which were once very handy when companies were using ActiveX for multiple file uploads (printing service where one could order photos). It would also be nice if Google had a feature to store hashes alongside the photos when users burned them to CD and a cloud backup feature that did the encryption user side so that nobody (even Google) could peer into your private life. Of course these are all things that free software authors could write and have not. Sadly we have more important programs that need written and developed given that no free or even non-free alternatives exist. Things like Flash and a complete suite of video authoring software (we do have some excellent video editing software although importing from DV cameras and burning to DVD is still haphazard and a challenge-though not so impossible the average user couldn't handle it with some practice- OpenShot has been both stable and extremely easy to use).
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 11:04 · Score: 0

No, not "just like" java classes. You don't really even have to write your own obnoxious vm-side glue anymore (except for more advanced apps), just use the ready made NativeActivity.
It's not exactly posixy, but don't confuse posix and native.
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by theweatherelectric · 2011-05-07 11:08 · Score: 1

Android barely qualifies as a form of "Linux." Yes, it uses a Linux kernel, but the fact is largely incidental - there's no real technical reason that Android couldn't be built on BSD or even WinCE if Google or an OEM wanted it. It isn't close to POSIX-compatible, it only runs "managed" (VM-based) apps, and it isn't even open-source as of 3.0.
So install MeeGo. MeeGo is quite strongly aligned with the upstream projects it makes use of. It really is a desktop Linux distribution for mobile devices.
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by Microlith · 2011-05-07 11:29 · Score: 1

Easier said than done. First you need to port the kernel forward to 2.6.37 (reference base) and then you need to beg S-E to recompile the video drivers against glibc and make sure they're compatible with Xorg 1.9.
The joys of closed source blobs and utter contempt for pushing drivers and board files upstream.
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 11:59 · Score: 0

*Linux* it is NOT.
debian is an OPERATING SYSTEM based on the LINUX KERNEL.
ANDROID is an software package running a kernel that is NOT linux, but is BASED on linux in a way that is not compatible.
unless i can compile linux software that i run on my computer, under an android device, no it is not linux.
straight from wikipedia "Android's kernel is derived from Linux but has included architecture changes by Google outside the typical Linux kernel development cycle.[152] Android does not have a native X Window System nor does it support the full set of standard GNU libraries, and this makes it difficult to port existing GNU/Linux applications or libraries to Android."
I bet my left testicle it would be easier to compile a linux program to run over windows than to run over android.
i hate android. whoever the hell decided it is a great idea to have a virtual machine in an embedded device where processing power and electrical power are at a severe premium?
since when do i need a dualcore 1GHz ARM cpu in a phone? and still not as responsive as my 15 year old calculator with three orders of magnitude less powerful software... my milestone lagged when i enterned text with the hardware keyboard. It couldn't even play the video i recorded with it, after a minute or so it started losing sync. fuck what horrible engineering
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 13:10 · Score: 0

OK... :
"unless i can compile linux software that i run on my computer, under an android device, no it is not linux"
I compile something on Fedora Core.. but doesn't run on Ubuntu. There's a lot of that, hence packaging systems with pre-compiled stuff.
""Android's kernel is derived from Linux but has included architecture changes by Google outside the typical Linux kernel development cycle.[152] Android does not have a native X Window System nor does it support the full set of standard GNU libraries, and this makes it difficult to port existing GNU/Linux applications or libraries to Android."
A lot of distributions don't include the X Windows System (yes, it may exist out there you can download or compile, but do not come with it), and some also don't include the full set of standard GNU Libraries (scaled back versions such as installs on routers, etc).
So I guess none of those are "Linux kernels" either.
And lastly: "In 1991, the first version of the Linux kernel was released by Linus Torvalds. Early Linux kernel developers ported GNU code, including the GNU C Compiler, to run on Linux. Later, when the GNU developers learned of Linux, they adapted other parts of GNU to run on the Linux kernel."
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by chrb · 2011-05-07 13:21 · Score: 1

Nice troll.. Android uses the Linux kernel.Arguing that it could use another kernel is like arguing that ios could use another kernel - possible, but not easy or likely. Apps do not need to be vm based, the web browser etc are not, and you can compile whatever code you want with gcc ... Even market apps can use the ndk... And regardless of whatever you think, it's more "open source" than any other mobile os..
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by chrb · 2011-05-07 13:27 · Score: 2

You lose a left testicle. It is trivial to run ARM Debian on Android, leaving several thousand packages that run without any recompilation whatsoever.
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by Microlith · 2011-05-07 14:05 · Score: 2

Android uses the Linux kernel much in the same way TiVO does. The reason Android picked Linux before Google bought them was because it's an active kernel with lots of ARM support already in place. But due to how Google uses it the kernel (and due to Android as a whole, the greater open source community) doesn't really benefit.

And regardless of whatever you think, it's more "open source" than any other mobile os.
Shipping, yes. I'd rather see devices running MeeGo, which is a much more standard distribution and encourages work to the core be done upstream instead of behind closed doors (with licenses that permit it to be closed.)
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by drb226 · 2011-05-07 17:16 · Score: 1

Therefore, we should call them GNU/Linux. Thanks, RMS.
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 18:23 · Score: 0

Are you a troll, or just a wanker?
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by asnelt · 2011-05-07 21:18 · Score: 1

I can run a full GNU/Linux in a chroot on my phone _because_ Android is based on Linux. That could not be done as easily without the Linux kernel.
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by Norsefire · 2011-05-08 03:16 · Score: 1

What is Linux?
No, seriously, what is Linux?
Look at Maemo or Meego for a definitive example of a phone OS that is "full Linux".
Re:Android is barely "Linux"... by the_humeister · 2011-05-08 03:26 · Score: 1

The problem with "GNU/Linux" is that it's just too cumbersome a term to use. The OS should really be called by its distribution name (eg. Debian, Slackware, gNewSense, etc.).
Consider that OS from Apple that most people who buy Macs use. Do you call it XNU? Darwin? Darwin/XNU? No. It's called Mac OS X.
Or how about that new OS from Microsoft that's run on the majority of computers. Is it called Windows NT Executive? MinWin?MinWin/Windows NT Executive? No. It's called Windows 7.

That's just the Ericsson part acting up... by mynickslongerthanurs · 2011-05-07 10:19 · Score: 2

The Sony part will soon remedy the error with a firmware 'update'.

well the law is on the side of phone hacking but o by Joe+The+Dragon · 2011-05-07 10:26 · Score: 0

well the law is on the side of phone hacking but on the ps3 side sony uses the law to stop hacking.

Sony has linux on many devices by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 10:27 · Score: 0

As a matter of fact most things from sony which need a decent processor for the task run under linux. Ebook readers, picture frames, cameras, home servers, there two earlier attempts at a portable internet device, television sets and some niche stuff.

And the PS3 runs linux, as far as i understand. If you run it in the state in which they sold it and use it just for running linux, it seems fine.

Re:Sony has linux on many devices by aaron552 · 2011-05-07 13:43 · Score: 1

The PS3 no longer runs Linux; I can no longer go out and buy a new one that does, regardless of whether or not I update the firmware.

--
I had a sig once. It was lost in the great storm of '09.

Bend over and spread those cheeks by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 10:34 · Score: 1

Bend over and spread those cheeks.

Because if you trust anything with a Sony label on it, you will get fucked in he ass.

And no it doesn't matter which division, because the fuckers in charge of the criminal divisions are still working for the company and have not been fired and sued by Sony.

On one hand, it's Sony... by Alex+Belits · 2011-05-07 10:37 · Score: 1

but on the other hand, it's Ericsson.

--
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.

Re:On one hand, it's Sony... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 22:08 · Score: 0

Dayum... I'd like to sit on one of those!

The rule is simple by kylemonger · 2011-05-07 10:43 · Score: 1

The rule is simple: if you're behind in marketshare you embrace "openness", if you're ahead then you strive for customer lock-in by whatever means necessary. You change strategies as your marketplace fortunes change.

Re:The rule is simple by tepples · 2011-05-07 12:15 · Score: 1

if you're behind in marketshare you embrace "openness"
PS3 trails the Wii, yet Sony still went for the lock-in by cutting out Other OS from the PS3.
Re:The rule is simple by CronoCloud · 2011-05-07 13:27 · Score: 1

Yes, they were paranoid about OtherOS eventually becoming an attack vector. And lets give them some credit for having it in the first place on both the PS3 and the PS2. Nintendo has never supported Linux.
Re:The rule is simple by Mysteray · 2011-05-07 18:20 · Score: 1

That makes no sense. Why should they get credit for something that they destroyed?
If someone sells you a nice house for market price, do they get credit? Not really, they weren't doing you a favor, they were making money.
When they later burn your house down, do they get credit?
Re:The rule is simple by drinkypoo · 2011-05-08 01:27 · Score: 1

Yes, they were paranoid about OtherOS eventually becoming an attack vector.
They were upset that OtherOS already was an attack vector... against Blu-Ray. While other Blu-Ray copiers exist, the PS3 is a blessed device and under OtherOS-based linux you could rip a Blu-Ray just by dd'ing the device thanks to the magic of the hypervisor. Rather than try to fix this problem they just tried to remove Linux from the device entirely, with the result that there is now a hack that adds OtherOS support to the slim PS3, which they never intended.
I don't claim Sony believed that removing OtherOS would stop Blu-Ray copying, but I do claim that they didn't really want to be producing the premiere Blu-Ray copying tool.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:The rule is simple by CronoCloud · 2011-05-08 02:00 · Score: 1

While other Blu-Ray copiers exist, the PS3 is a blessed device and under OtherOS-based linux you could rip a Blu-Ray just by dd'ing the device thanks to the magic of the hypervisor.

While it was possible to dd the discs early on, didn't they fix that in one of the 2.foo series firmwares? I'd have to double check the YDL boards. And I know that even though it was possible to dd them, you still had to de-encrypt the files,
Re:The rule is simple by drinkypoo · 2011-05-08 02:12 · Score: 1

The decrypt is the easy part though, once you get past any malicious on-disc copy protection. And since the PS3 had to be able to read those discs by definition, then that was solved for you by Sony.
You can go backwards in firmware if you try hard enough, too :)

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Nokia by gmuslera · 2011-05-07 10:44 · Score: 1

That is not even shadow of what Nokia did with the N900 and pushing the development of Meego (ok, pre-Elop era, at least). But they will get extra points if they publish drivers or specs to do them for fully installing other linux, not just android, on their phones.

Re:Nokia by Microlith · 2011-05-07 11:12 · Score: 4, Informative

Most vendors publish (some) of the necessary drivers. However in truly incompetent fashion, they do so by dropping the kernel sources they used for the device. No history, no upstream contribution, just a tarball.
This attitude is heavily encouraged by Google forking permanently from the mainline and not maintaining an upstream of its own, resulting in tons of dead-end drivers for these devices that have to be reworked between Android versions. On top of that, you have the problem that userspace drivers for most video chips are built against Bionic, rendering them unusable on non-Android platforms. This leaves you stuck with software-only for video and no 3D at all.
Sadly there's no guarantee that MeeGo will free us from that, but at least using glibc/Xorg (and eventually Wayland) means that ports of other OSes with full hardware support (including 3D) is more likely, as opposed to now where it's either second-rate via chroot+vnc or software rendering only.
Re:Nokia by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 12:06 · Score: 0

Or it's encouraged by the mainline folks not being interested in accepting any solutions but their own.
The Android kernel code is out there, in publicly accessible git repositories, with change histories.
It is regularly rebased and snapped up to newer mainline versions.
Android ships on over 350,000 newly activated devices per day.
I'd be surprised if that many maemo based phones have shipped in total to date.
The community can choose to be helpful or be obnoxious, but neither is going to cause Google to throw out their entire design and restart from scratch based on X11 and whatever else the community prefers when they already have something that's highly successful. The former may bring Android's use of Linux and mainline closer in sync and as a result make it easier to build low-volume pure-linux-like-the-desktop solutions that some hope against all reason will succeed.
Also, maybe, do a little research. For example -- as of Gingerbread you can deploy applications written in C/C++ on Android, linking in whatever fancy open source libraries you like and making use of opengl ES 2 directly. Hell, you could easily write a shim library that provides X11 up top and plugs into opengl and the android stack on the bottom and have a full porting environment for all those awesome native Linux apps Android users are missing out on! Or you could bitch and moan about how not-linux Android is on slashdot. Your choice, dude. Your choice.
Re:Nokia by Microlith · 2011-05-07 14:10 · Score: 1

Or it's encouraged by the mainline folks not being interested in accepting any solutions but their own.
Stunning arrogance.

The Android kernel code is out there, in publicly accessible git repositories, with change histories.
But the Android kernel's changes seep their way into hardware drivers, thus making them a bitch to port back to the standard kernel.

It is regularly rebased and snapped up to newer mainline versions.
But the changes don't go the other way, and I doubt it has anything to do with arrogance.

Android ships on over 350,000 newly activated devices per day.
Numbers make it superior, I get it.

as of Gingerbread you can deploy applications written in C/C++ on Android, linking in whatever fancy open source libraries you like and making use of opengl ES 2 directly.
Yes, you can. The NDK is a pain in the ass to use though.

Hell, you could easily write a shim library that provides X11 up top and plugs into opengl and the android stack on the bottom and have a full porting environment for all those awesome native Linux apps Android users are missing out on!
Gee, your sarcasm is so awesome! Do you work for Google or something? Are you hurt that not everyone is cheering and rooting for Android?

Your choice, dude. Your choice.
Nah, I like to comment on how Google is sidelining real open source projects in favor of their own custom stack.

They will also let you unlock bootloaders by thegarbz · 2011-05-07 10:52 · Score: 1

Interestingly enough Sony-Ericson will also allow you to unlock the bootloader on many of their phones. This naturally voids the warranty and they say in the process some DRM features will be removed from the phone, but this is quite surprising given they are the biggest arseholes in the current technological world. It's a complete opposite approach to Motorola.

Mind you there's enough skepticism on the internet that thinks this is a grand scheme to build a database of phones with voided warranties. After all the way phone hacking is going these days with other handsets like Samsung, it's possible to unlock, jailbreak, heck even install Cyanogen mod (a port of Google's vanilla Android OS) and yet magically flash the stock firmware back on if the phone is marginally functional and return it for a warranty claim.

Re:They will also let you unlock bootloaders by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 12:55 · Score: 0

I must have mistyped the url, is this really /.?
"Android is not Linux", "Vendor provided tool for unlocking the bootload is a warranty scheme"
I think it's great, because the manufacturer will stop pushing updates when they feel they can't spend any more resources on an outdated device, since they didn't charge iphone-like sums for it in the first place. Then it's time to unlock and install Cyanogen or the like, and continue using your smartphone with the latest releases.
Re:They will also let you unlock bootloaders by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 22:50 · Score: 0

"natually" voids the warranty? Did you void your laptop's warranty when you installed linux on it?
Re:They will also let you unlock bootloaders by drinkypoo · 2011-05-08 01:24 · Score: 1

Interestingly enough Sony-Ericson will also allow you to unlock the bootloader on many of their phones. This naturally voids the warranty
It is illegal for Sony to deny you warranty support simply because you have used an alternate, compatible replacement, as per the Magnuson-Moss warranty act. It is probably illegal for the contract to even contain such a clause, as you (the user) are not receiving anything in exchange for giving up warranty protection. You could erroneously say you are receiving an unlocked bootloader, but in actuality you are having a restriction removed and not gaining additional functionality.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:They will also let you unlock bootloaders by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-08 02:19 · Score: 0

That's four phones, not "many". A lot of Sony 'droids are not covered by this.
Re:They will also let you unlock bootloaders by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-08 06:08 · Score: 0

Interestingly enough Sony-Ericson will also allow you to unlock the bootloader on many of their phones. This naturally voids the warranty and they say in the process some DRM features will be removed from the phone, but this is quite surprising given they are the biggest arseholes in the current technological world. It's a complete opposite approach to Motorola.
The opposite of Motorola? The Motorola Xoom bootloader is unlockable in the same way. On the other hand, the Atrix bootloader is not easily unlockable. So, I think Motorola is kind of weird about this.
Re:They will also let you unlock bootloaders by thegarbz · 2011-05-08 20:09 · Score: 1

If only US laws applied everywhere. But then I guess we'd have a Patriot Act and a DMCA too so I'm kinda happy they don't. Would rather void the warranty of my phone :-)
Also I'd like to see that phrase "compatible replacement" stand up in court, especially since the fundamental reason for doing what we're proposing is outside the realm of normal use of the device.
I mean under that wording you'd also be entitled to a warranty claim if you installed a modchip in your Xbox which then fried it.
Re:They will also let you unlock bootloaders by drinkypoo · 2011-05-09 01:05 · Score: 1

Yeah, I forgot my "in the USA"
Under that wording you still wouldn't be entitled to a fucking thing, because the modchip isn't replacing anything, it's an aftermarket addon which alters the behavior of the system. It's not an OE-spec replacement. Nice try, though.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:They will also let you unlock bootloaders by thegarbz · 2011-05-09 08:57 · Score: 1

That's exactly where I'm coming from. Unlocking the bootloader in itself may not be warranty voiding, but what purpose can it serve other than to install an non OE-spec replacement kernel / OS?
Though I am envisioning taking a broken iPhone 3G to Apple support and complain that the version of Android I installed on it caused a brick.
Re:They will also let you unlock bootloaders by drinkypoo · 2011-05-09 13:44 · Score: 1

That's exactly where I'm coming from. Unlocking the bootloader in itself may not be warranty voiding, but what purpose can it serve other than to install an non OE-spec replacement kernel / OS?
It doesn't work that way unless they are willing to provide specifications. If your replacement meets or exceeds specifications they cannot terminate warranty support. In order to prove your replacement doesn't meet or exceed specifications they're going to have to provide those specifications.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

It's.... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 10:56 · Score: 0

... A Trap!

Re:It's.... by Tamran · 2011-05-07 14:18 · Score: 1

... A Trap!
After what happened on the PS3, if you didn't say it I was going to!

Hmm.. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 11:06 · Score: 0

THIS...SENTENCE...IS...FALSE...dont think about it..dont think about it..dont think about it..

Re:Hmm.. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 11:49 · Score: 0

Umm, true. I'm gonna go with true. Though to be honest I may have heard that one before.

Bummer. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 11:54 · Score: 0

Bought a Sony Symbian phone prior to the Nokia meltdown. I reasoned I could use it for some time before Symbian was killed (and there was back then the idea it could be opensourced... well, 'tis no more).

This after having problems with Sony DRM in my car radio (with a legal CD, not pirated), after the PS3 fiasco and after that trojan thing others complained about -- please, call me an idiot, but then the phone was really cost-attractive (now I know why, duh) and Sony optics usually are well-done.

Oh, well, it will last for some 3 years, I think... and it's not for my use. For me, I want Linux, not even Android will be enough... that means I'll probably get a tablet... or small netbook, when it comes under 800g with an affordable price.

Before.... by __aazsst3756 · 2011-05-07 12:17 · Score: 1

Before they force an uninstall in a software update, and sue anyone that tries to jailbreak them to reinstall the software of their choosing. Obviously this is sarcasm, but I truly do not trust Sony at all.

Thanks, but no thanks by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 12:31 · Score: 0

First you poisoned your products and now you want us to swallow it? No, thanks, other offers taste better.

cb

Re:Thanks, but no thanks by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 13:42 · Score: 0

Unfortunately for you, RMS is respected and you, who wants to "make a living" by selling the same hidden-source crap over and over to the suckers you call "customers", is not.
Re:Thanks, but no thanks by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 22:04 · Score: 0

Aww, did I hurt someone's feelings?
RMS is barely known, much less respected. If he had focused on enabling developers to be productive he might be liked today, but instead all he's done is ensure the lawyers get more money. Nice job with all that freedom.

just wait. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 13:05 · Score: 0

based on the last ten-plus years of behavior, I think we're in for the same sort of disappointment as 'other os'.

the devs have no say. if the brand managers work out over vodkas that this 'dilutes' the platform like ice does a martini, what's to stop them from pushing firmware updates like with the PSP?

Sony news is no longer important to me by gearloos · 2011-05-07 13:40 · Score: 1

Nothing from Sony matters anymore. Their elitist attitude towards customers telling them what they can or cant do with the PS3, the root kit issues, the hacking, I'm done. The problem is no matter how much real information people with actual knowledge try to release, it is covered by the haze of fanboism. I'll admit it, I ply GT5 on my PS3 and I am amazed by the attitudes. I go to GTplanet and if I mention it, I'm censored and get 3000 replies saying Sony is doing their best and even offer a free months ps+! What is wrong with these people? This company does whatever it wants to you, blatantly violates your rights (root kit), has the user information stored unencrypted(at my work that would be criminal negligence and you go to jail-YES JAIL) I'll never buy another game, or any other Sony product. It's unfortunate for me because I'll be left out when they do actually take over the political parties. It obvious they (as well as the other RIAA jerkoffs) are in there pretty deep already.

--
"Computers are a lot like Air Conditioners" "They both work great until you start opening Windows"

Fooled me once ... by PPH · 2011-05-07 13:41 · Score: 1

... shame on you. Fool me again, shame on me.

Put the play station 'Other OS' option back, apologize profusely and then maybe we'll bite.

Maybe.

--
Have gnu, will travel.

Encourage? by Dunge · 2011-05-07 14:42 · Score: 1

It's written in the article "Please note that Sony Ericsson is not recommending this."

dup post (I am sure) - Is Sony f'ing with us? by Adam+Appel · 2011-05-07 15:13 · Score: 1

So we can install it right until they say we can't? Fuck that.

--
They come in the dark, only in the darkest.

Current Sony Android phones are a joke by lanner · 2011-05-07 15:43 · Score: 4, Interesting

Just go over to the xda-devellopers website and see how great Sony's Android phones are. They are crap. The first gen was released on Android 1.6 when 2.1 was already out (or at least 2.0), and Sony never offered an update. The phone hardware is substandard. Sony support of their phones is junk.

Wait about two years, look back to now and see if they were telling to truth. If you want a preview, go back two years and look at what Sony was saying then, and then look at now. Get the idea? Yea.

Re:Current Sony Android phones are a joke by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-09 07:33 · Score: 0

Wrong.
My Xperia x10 is running the official SE 2.1 update as I'm writing this.
Granted they took their time to release the update, but they did, and the developers even acknowledged they learned to not fiddle around and customise their future phones as much in the future.
Why would you spread such misinformation?

Command line phone by Grindalf · 2011-05-07 16:49 · Score: 0

Now to write that command line phone! It would be easy to do a POSIX Unix. Now where is that g77 source code ...

--
The purpose of existence is to make money.

But by SnarfQuest · 2011-05-07 18:23 · Score: 1

But, will it run Linux?

Someone had to ask it...

--
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.

MeeGo by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 18:54 · Score: 0

MeeGo is on sale now... As you may have heard, this is a product of collaboration between Nokia and Intel. Nokia has chosen the dark side apparently- Windows Mobile... So now Nokia is selling entire MeeGo development wing to other parties. As I have been informed; from initial 5 potential buyers only one is left now - LG company. Which is a huge rival to Sony on the market... (a lot like Cisco and Huawei...)
So, no wonder Sony is worried!

I for one would like to see MeeGo in hands of Sony, rather then LG...

Black sheep relatives help with your own choices by Sarusa · 2011-05-07 19:20 · Score: 1

It's quite possible that the gaming division is playing the retarded cousin dealing meth out the the back of the station wagon for the mobile division. Scared straight.

Then again, I wouldn't trust them not to yank this at any time. It's Sony, FFS. Gaming division used to brag how much more open the PS3 was than the XBox 360 and now look at it. Okay, so it's open now, but not the way they wanted.

O RLY? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-07 20:12 · Score: 0

Sony wants customers to use Linux with their devices.
I thought my alarm clock managed to wake me this morning, but apparently not.
Thanks, I'll pass.

On Sony Ericsson's Android Strategy by Skythe · 2011-05-07 21:32 · Score: 1

Sony received a lot of flak for their Xperia X10 Android devices - with a poor Android release upgrade cycle (very slow updates and stopping updates after Android 2.1), unfriendly attitude to devs, etc. But they've done a complete 180 recently; they reversed the decision of the Xperia X10 phones only getting Android 2.1 and said they'd release Gingerbread on them, as well as unveil the bootloader/unlocking website.

Side Note: I'm currently testing the Xperia PLAY out as a sort-of competition for SE, and the UI is very smooth and responsive. I only used it a few times, but I heard the Xperia X10 (+Mini and Pro) had quite laggy UI, the PLAY and also presumably the Arc are a different story. These are phones that I would recommend to friends now (currently suggest they only purchase HTC handsets and will advise against Motorola / Lagblur). So I just wanted to put it out there that they're changing gears and learning from their mistakes, and they deserve a pat on the back for it.

Nice try by NapalmV · 2011-05-07 22:29 · Score: 1

Like I would believe that they wouldn't remove it next update, when they implement some new rootkit and DRM scheme for media while exposing my credit card info to the world at large. $ony, you screwed up badly, no one's gonna believe you ever again.

Sony? by zmooc · 2011-05-08 00:14 · Score: 1

Sony started making phones again?? No? Too bad, I really liked their scrollwheel-enabled phones and if Sony came out with an Android running Sony Clie that also happened to be a phone, I'd be the first to race to the store. Man, that would be so awesome...

Or, in other words: this is not about Sony. It's about Sony-Ericsson. A 50/50 joint venture between Sony and Ericsson. It's ridiculous to call it Sony, it's ridiculous to call it a Sony division and it's especially ridiculous to make a comparison with the Sony OtherOS crap.

--
0x or or snor perron?!

They encourage it.. by nurb432 · 2011-05-08 00:25 · Score: 1

Today. Then they will change the EULA terms and yank it, leaving you with 1/2 of what you bought.

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----

Sony wants free developers by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-08 01:57 · Score: 0

The reason for the Linux adoption is simply because of the open license of Linux. If you develop anything on it Sony owns it. Does
Anyone know of apache and websphere? Simply put Sony is trying an ibm.

With Sony Ericsson still delivering phones that by walter_f · 2011-05-08 02:09 · Score: 1

come with Android 1.6 pre-installed, they are not exactly the leaders of the pack currently.
Encouraging development and use of alternative OSS/FOSS firmware (Linux distributions) on SE phones would be a very nice move, though.

A serious commitment by SE to this might be, to some degree, a compensation for the dwindling efforts at Nokia (Maemo, MeeGo, and successors to the N900, pity).
So I'm looking forward to some very interesting - even impressive - results here, some day.

Rebuild the kernel to "change system icons" by Eunuchswear · 2011-05-08 02:29 · Score: 1

Rebuilding the kernel enables end users to make modifications to their devices that are normally not intended by the device manufacturer, such as theming the device by changing system icons

WTF?

--
Watch this Heartland Institute video

No Surprise by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-08 03:56 · Score: 0

Remember that time when Sony encouraged Linux on its console called the PS3.

Sorry Sony, the track record says you'll screw us if we invest.

Let's see... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-08 05:40 · Score: 0

My Android phone out-of-box has:
0) POSIX-compatible OS
1) Busybox-like shell.
2) iptables
3) dnsmasq
4) /proc, /dev, /etc, etc.

That's definitely and unmistakably Linux. It has very non-standard userspace, but it's still Linux.

Dear Sony... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-08 10:14 · Score: 0

GTFO.

They used to "encourage" Linux on the PS3 too. by mmj638 · 2011-05-08 13:29 · Score: 1

They will alter the deal. Pray they do not alter it further.

IT'S A TRAP! by DarthVain · 2011-05-09 02:01 · Score: 1

Just like OtherOS on the PS3?

No thanks Sony.

PS3 business model vs. Phone business model by nutznboltz · 2011-05-09 08:08 · Score: 1

With the PS3 Sony was heavily subsidizing the GPU hardware expecting the sale of software titles to recoup the amount they were losing per PS3 sale. Along comes the world and makes PS3 systems into clusters that will never be accompanied by the purchase of a game and Sony starts bleeding cash.

With the phone there is no subsidized GPU and therefore no loss when Linux is used on the phone. In fact selling them as a Linux platform will mean more paying customers.

Re:PS3 business model vs. Phone business model by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-09 16:43 · Score: 0

i see a problem with this logic based on the fact that sony doesnt make money on games sold, because they dont produce any games. they may lose out on their overpriced DLC and that stupid PSN+ but thats it.

Sony will just update it out later by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-09 16:32 · Score: 0

theyre just going to remove the option later and piss off even more people. maybe sony is trying to bankrupt themselves by having their security breached to try to claim insurance????

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Sony Encourages Linux On Their Phones

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