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AP Files FOIA Request For Bin Laden Photos
Hugh Pickens writes "The Atlantic reports that President Obama's decision to withhold the visual evidence of Osama bin Laden's death has created a fundamental disagreement between the White House and the Associated Press, one of the largest journalism organizations in the world, prompting the news organization to file a Freedom of Information Act request for the bin Laden photos. 'This information is important for the historical record,' says Michael Oreskes, senior managing editor at The Associated Press. 'That's our view.' AP's FOIA request includes a reminder of the president's campaign pledge and a plea to be more transparent than his predecessor. 'The Obama White House pledged to be the most transparent government in US history,' writes the AP, 'and to comply much more closely with the Freedom of Information Act than the Bush administration did.' The AP isn't alone in wanting more insight on the specifics of the raid. When it eventually surfaced that bin Laden was not killed in a firefight, his wife wasn't used as a human shield, there was no live footage of the event and the 'mansion' where he lived was only worth between $250,000 and $480,000, many became skeptical of the White House's narrative. Other organizations that have filed FOIAs include Politico, Fox News, Judicial Watch and Citizens United. Oreskes sympathizes with the president. 'This is obviously one of his most difficult decisions and we understand that.'"
None of the things you listed can be put onto a poster and waved around during an angry protest. You can't martyr specially modified helicopters or the dog. At least try understand that much.
On the other hand, releasing the photo(s) will do nothing to stop the people who insist it's all a fraud from insisting it's a fraud. It will not convince anyone who isn't already satisfied with the reports.
If you can think of any positive result that can come from releasing them at this time, please share because I'm at a loss.
=Smidge=
And sometimes, those requests are denied for a good reason. This is one of them. As others pointed out, the benefit of releasing them is exactly zero. Tinfoil hatters will still cook up a hoax. Besides, Al Quaeda confirmed bin laden is dead.
What would the pictures tell you that you don't already know? That he was killed by three bullets, instead of two? That the bullets used were NATO spec, not US MIL spec? That he prefers his clothes in hot pink? That he bleeds red?
I still don't understand why everyone wants to see the pictures. No, "Because I want to" is not a good reason.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
if the FOIA says they have to be released then they have to be released; the president does not have a choice. . . nobody is above the law.
Except that's not what the FOIA says. In fact, the FOIA has all kinds of exceptions that can be used to deny a FOIA request - all part of "the law."
personally i dont want to see the photos.
I don't want to see the photos either and I think a government decision to release them now would just be trophy waving of the lowest order. But I do fully support the AP's argument that they are of enormous historical significance. I'd be fine with them being declassified in ~10 years from now, preferably sooner if al qaeda's irrelevance continues to accelerate.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Except that if you're skeptical of the government on this one, then a picture of a corpse won't help your skepticism one little bit, or at least it shouldn't. Thanks to Photoshop, the days of photos being reliable evidence are long gone. Really, anyone who seriously suspects that the government just made up the whole story to look good will be satisfied by nothing less than the opportunity to do their own DNA tests on the body, which according to the government isn't possible.
Ultimately, the proof will be if OBL shows up alive and well in the future or not. If he's not dead, I'm sure he'll be more than willing to announce the fact. If he doesn't pull a Mark Twain then he's obviously indisposed somewhere and in that case Occam's Razor kind of leads us to believe that it went down more or less the way the government says it did, rather than looking for crazy conspiracy theories.
You guys really are a terrorized nation, aren't you?
No. This is politics. The same 'national security' argument escaped these people when it came to Abu Ghraib photos, gitmo photos, civilian casualty photos, etc. They wanted everything exposed on the front page immediately and without exception. Any hesitation was an impeachable criminal act.
I'm watching Jon Stewart make bin Laden head shot jokes every night. Who are the cowboys now? It will be funny when these freshly minted chicken-hawks eventually see exactly what they're flaunting; a head blown apart with assault rifle rounds.
On that day there will be no memory of their joy at the AP.
Lurking at the bottom of the gravity well, getting old
I agree with you about surgical strikes on corrupt leaders. However in this case there was no need for the assassination. Bin Laden could have been captured and put on trial. They could have done it in Texas so he'd be killed afterwards anyway. This would have actually been great PR for the west to show that we are actually serious about being nations of laws and due process. It would have also shown Bin Laden to be the pathetic hateful little man he really is and probably convinced some of the more marginal extremist people in the world they are heading down the wrong path. Instead this event will harden those same people because they will see it as proof Americans are hypocrites that, when it suits them, just do whatever the hell they want
When the ragheads - AHEM - Muslims danced in the streets after 9/11, we frowned on them, and named them animals, or worse. Then we take out one of theirs, and we behave in the same manner.
People who danced in the streets after 9/11, cheered the deaths of several thousand civilians.
People who danced in the streets after 5/2, cheered the death of a single self-proclaimed militant who has likely killed people personally, and on whose orders thousands of innocent people have died - which he never denied.
Feel the difference.
I've been thinking about his a lot. There is a lot of issues that need to be thought about.
1) If in custody, I would wager al quaida would make at least one attempt to get him back, and hen could mean taking a shit load of hostages.
2) In custody he becomes a rallying point.
3) He would be a global political nightmare.
4) and several other i probably don't need to list.
OTOH, isn't a free nation of laws suppose to hold the law above all risks?
I really don't know. I will be mulling over it for a long time. I mean, emotional I was glad. But we need rational at time like these.
" It would have also shown Bin Laden to be the pathetic hateful little man he really is and probably convinced some of the more marginal extremist people in the world they are heading down the wrong path"
I think that is incredibly naive. He would be a rallying point.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I do not trust the government to tell the truth on matters this large. While I doubt bin Laden is alive, I doubt the official version of his death even more.
Let's see..... the US Government announces he is dead:
Obama Announces Death of Osama bin Laden
The terrorist organization he headed announces he is dead:
Text: Al Qaeda statement confirming bin Laden's death
The regional troublemaker with a strong intelligence agency and an avowed enemy of the US announces he was dead before the operation:
Iran's intelligence chief says bin Laden died long before the 'alleged raid'
Family members denounce his death:
My father's death was criminal and I may sue the U.S.: Bin Laden's son slams Al Qaeda leader's killing
The locals are protesting his death:
Pakistani tribesmen protest
At this point, I think anyone doubting Bin Laden's death is about ready to star in their own personal Truman Show, and doesn't really need more news or photographs.... maybe a shrink or philosopher. Cogito ergo Bin Laden moritur.
The looney bin is getting crowded. Sanity: step 1, step 2....
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
I'd be a more concerned if we actually collectively wrung our hands over the death of a madman who deliberately plotted and succeeded in smashing passenger airplanes into skyscrapers
I'm not bothered by his death. I'm bothered by the fact that his death was not carried out in accordance with the law that we supposedly hold as our highest principle. If OBL was a criminal, he should have been tried and executed. If he was an enemy combatant, he should have been treated according to the rules of war, and tried as a war criminal, and executed.
However, given how often we ignore our own laws, even when it's not particularly important, I'm not at all surprised that we ignored them in this case. I'm not even arguing that we shouldn't have ignored them. I'm just saying I wish we were a country that truly cared about the Rule of Law enough to at least be a little bothered by subverting it.
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