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Zediva Fights Back Against MPAA

MoldySpore writes "When Zediva burst onto the streaming scene earlier this year, they managed to do something nobody else was doing. Navigating around the copyright law, they found a way to stream rental movies not currently available on other services, because they were still inside the DVD sales window, and filled a role not currently part of the competitions' services. The service grants a 'rental' of the physical movie to the user, who is then able to stream it over the internet, usually with the option to re-rent after being played. By having it be a rental service, they were able to avoid some of the legalese associated with streaming movies outside of that sales window. Needless to say the MPAA was not pleased. But instead of making nice with the MPAA, Zediva has decided to fight back in the form of expensive legal heavy-hitters from 'elite San Francisco law firm Durie Tangri,' which has forced the MPAA to hire their own team of expensive legal ninjas. Zediva argues what most technologically informed people would when looking at this service: that they are essentially a rental service who are renting physical media, and providing the DVD player and a very long cable to the renter's TV."

22 of 112 comments (clear)

  1. It's all about control. by elucido · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The MPAA wants to control the entertainment sphere of the world. They don't want competition from newer more modern companies, so they use the law to guarantee no competition can exist. They don't want the "customer" to have control, they want it so they can maximize profits for themselves.

    They just don't care about us the consumer. And they hate the competition. So they win by using the law because they can't win in the market place.

    1. Re:It's all about control. by brit74 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      (Sigh) As much as I hate defending the MPAA because they do want to extend copyright as far as they can, it doesn't mean they're guilty of everything.

      The MPAA wants to control the entertainment sphere of the world.
      No, they're fighting to control the content they created. No need to exaggerate.

      They don't want competition from newer more modern companies, so they use the law to guarantee no competition can exist.
      No company wants competition to exist, but what's going on here has nothing to do with driving out competition. Anyone can create a movie production company.

      They don't want the "customer" to have control, they want it so they can maximize profits for themselves.
      Yes, companies want to maximize profits (what company doesn't?), and, yes, there are many cases where we don't want them / shouldn't let them maximize profits in certain ways (for example, we broke up the movie company / movie theater monopoly because it worked to block any competition). Personally, I always thought the movie rental business was always really weird. Apparently, they can buy one copy of a movie and rent it as many times as they want. With this new "rental" business, I can see why movie companies would (legitimately) have a problem with this business model - it's a super efficient way of renting movies that would allow movie-rental companies to rent a single movie a dozen times a day. But, then, I can see why movie companies have a problem with the traditional movie-rental business, so I don't know.

      Anyway, my main point is that the MPAA might hate competition, but they have zero control over what other people or companies create. They're only fighting to have control over the stuff they themselves created. No need to exaggerate, as if the MPAA owns all movies created everywhere by anyone.

    2. Re:It's all about control. by elucido · · Score: 2

      The RIAA hasn't created a damn thing. Artists create, RIAA pimps artists on a massive scale.
      They own the rights to the creations, but they don't create a damn thing.

    3. Re:It's all about control. by Eskarel · · Score: 2

      The movie rental industry is based on a very simple arrangement actually.

      I agree to sell you a copy of a movie which I own(this is still legal for movies even if you can't do it for all media). As part of the terms of sale I agree to buy the movie back from you at a set price within a set period of time given certain constraints.

      The movie companies back in those days weren't quite as arrogant as they are today and decided if you can't beat em join em, so they sold movies to the rental places at extremely high prices before they released them to the general public. To the best of my knowledge the price isn't as high now, but that's more because the movie industry needs video rental now.

    4. Re:It's all about control. by Khyber · · Score: 2

      "No, they're fighting to control the content they created. No need to exaggerate. "

      This is why they have 'emergency funds' for those artists whose copyright they 'accidentally' infringe for nothing, then? Yea, I don't think so. Witness Canada's version, which recently got busted doing exactly that.

      "Anyone can create a movie production company."

      Assuming they have the money. You forget how hard Hollywood worked (and violated many patents while dong so) to become what they are today. They set a rather high barrier to entry in one form or another.

      "No need to exaggerate, as if the MPAA owns all movies created everywhere by anyone."

      They've been busted distributing a movie internally against copyright. Your words are meaningless in the face of their currently in-light actions.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  2. Good ol' MPAA by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Informative

    Someone sneaks around behind all their dirty little tricks and they don't like it.

    Comes with the territory, boys.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  3. There Is No Cat... by NotSanguine · · Score: 5, Informative

    You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat.
    --Albert Einstein, when asked to describe radio.

    --
    No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    1. Re:There Is No Cat... by ThunderBird89 · · Score: 2

      very, very long cat

      Can't resist, have to say it: "Longcat is loooooooooooooooooooooong!"

      --
      Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
    2. Re:There Is No Cat... by Hatta · · Score: 3, Informative

      I think the way it works is that he's both ok with it AND against it, until you ask him.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    3. Re:There Is No Cat... by i.am.delf · · Score: 5, Funny

      Because of quantum entanglement, if you have a long cat in a long box when you open the end in New York and find a tail, the end in Los Angeles is definitely a head.

  4. Define "Streaming"? by DigiShaman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm not taking the MPAA side here. However...

    One could argue that it's streaming if you're transferring data over the wire from a location outside your legal ownership. For example, over a DVI cable would be ok because both the source and destination are usually found in one room. They're found in separate rooms for high-end setups however. Even between two homes that you own might be acceptable (two houses you own on one plot of land). But... the MPAA could argue that if the source is from another building and company rendering services not under your direct ownership, the data is being "Streamed".

    Steamed being defined as receiving sourced material from a non-tangable source not in your direct and immediate possession.

    --
    Life is not for the lazy.
    1. Re:Define "Streaming"? by gman003 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or - bear with me for a moment - we could abolish the ridiculous concept that media is somehow different depending on how you access it (and should thus priced, released and controlled differently) and realize that it's the same legal object, whether it's played in a theater, bought on DVD, bought on pay-per-view, watched on broadcast TV, downloaded, or streamed.

      Seriously, when you think about it, the entire concept is ridiculous. The whole system is preposterous. Staggered release by region. Staggered release by medium. Street dates. Pre-screenings. No-resale clauses. It's all patently absurd.

    2. Re:Define "Streaming"? by LordLimecat · · Score: 2

      Unfortunately (fortunately?) it is not the job of lawyers or judges to legislate. Their job is to interpret the existing law correctly.

      They sometimes (often) deviate from that into declaring new laws, but that is NOT their job, and we are better off when they dont.

    3. Re:Define "Streaming"? by bzipitidoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why should you be allowed to, essentially, distribute a copy of a work when you don't have the permission to do so?

      Why not? Why should anyone need any permission to do that? We can borrow recordings from public libraries. We can invite our friends over to watch. Why shouldn't we be able to do the same thing over the Internet?

      we have to have some control over the media we create

      No, we don't.

      else the term "profit" will mean almost nothing.

      Of course I knew that's what you were getting at. There are ways to profit from artistic endeavor without copyright, without any control whatsoever over what people do with works of art. The way you talk, you'd think copyright is the only way anyone can make art without starving. Not so!

      And there's really no choice. We'll have to move to a different business model. Neither legal nor technical methods can enforce restrictions on the ability to make copies. Declaring that everyone may be a pirate, and suing us by the thousands, has been an abysmal failure. DRM is a stupid joke.

      You ought to be thankful the universe doesn't work the way the entertainment cartels evidently wish it to, for if it did, we'd all be much poorer.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    4. Re:Define "Streaming"? by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 2

      They sometimes (often) deviate from that into declaring new laws, but that is NOT their job, and we are better off when they dont.

      You really should learn something about how the legal system works before opening your mouth. Case law is, and has been for roughly 1000 years (essentially since the Norman Conquest of England), a fundamental feature of our judicial system. In the absence of applicable statutes and case law judges extend existing statutes and case law to create new case law. Case law can be overridden by statute, and has some weird jurisdiction issues, but is otherwise binding law in any common law system (the US and the UK being the prime examples). Judges are SUPPOSED to write new case law when necessary. Of course, they do sometimes fuck up (creating case law when they shouldn't, or creating blatantly irrational/nonsense case law *cough*soylent green is corporations*cough*, but that doesn't change the fact that it IS their job. You arbitrarily stating otherwise on the internet does not change 1000 years of consistent practice.

  5. Everything old is new again :) by AEton · · Score: 5, Informative

    Hey, guys, for a good time, have a look at On Command Video Corp. v. Columbia Pictures Industries, 777 F. Supp. 787 (N.D. Cal. 1991).

    On Command was doing literally this exact thing, but 20 years ago and (1) with VCRs instead of DVD players; (2) with the VCRs at the hotel front desk and you in your hotel room, instead of with the DVD players in California and you anywhere on the Internet.

    Things did not work out well for On Command. However, the legal landscape has changed somewhat in more recent years -- a more relevant ruling might be the 2008 Cablevision DVR case (see discussion e.g. at http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2008/08/cablevision-wins-on-appeal-remote-dvr-lawful-after-all.ars.

    --
    We recently had heard in the office over one of the Yellow Machine that's made by Anthology Solutions.
  6. Bad idea by lyinhart · · Score: 2

    Fools. If anything, the movie industry should welcome services like Zediva to buy DVDs in bulk since consumer sales of DVDs are down. Or at least compete by offering "official" streaming at lower prices.

    --
    Freedom is drinking a beer in the park when you're supposed to be at work.
    1. Re:Bad idea by MoonBuggy · · Score: 2

      Technically and logically speaking, they aren't in violation. Legally speaking, who knows.

  7. Sigh, no. by alexander_686 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Netflix and Red Box have blown a hole in DVD sales. It used to be that people would spring ~$15 for a new release to build up their DVD Library. Instead of buying 2 DVD a month they can rent 10 to 30 instead. This is a seachange. Zediva should be able to get away with even fewer DVDs because their turnover is going to be much faster. They won't have to wait for people to mail their CDs back or drop it off. As soon as somebody is done watching they can roll it over to the next.

    Streaming, by the way, is not going to make up for lost DVD sales. The studies gets about 80 cents per steam vs a few dollars on a DVD.

  8. Cheaper than advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Who'd heard of Zediva before this. So, what's cost saving by getting the word out by being sued by MPAA rather than the traditional advertising approach?

  9. Re:Glad they're fighting back by QuasiSteve · · Score: 2

    I, for one, don't mind your shameless plug as it is at least somewhat informative.

    I'm curious, however, as to one of your arguments:

    The consumer is the one pressing play. Therefore, the one âoeperformingâ the work is the end user, and not Zediva (in the Redd Horne case, the store clerks were pushing play). In Zedivaâ(TM)s case, the consumer is the one playing a movie that they have rented, on a player that they have rented, to a display in their own homes.

    If Zediva is renting out both the DVD and the player somehow - then how does that DVD get out of the DVD box and into the DVD player? Are they auto-loaded? If so - who stocks the auto-loader?

    This is aside from technical questions relating to whether they really are just renting out the DVD (given that they effectively transcode its content for viewing, and then stream it to the user.. no matter how much they like to avoid the legal definition of streaming, somehow), and whether or not they really have a whole server farm of actual DVD players playing back actual DVDs (i.e. one DVD + player per viewer of that DVD, and not just a single disc image on HDD/in RAM that gets played back with a user limit so as to be able to claim limited DVD playback), given that you can't access - for example - special features (as per their own FAQ).. which should be entirely possible if this were really just a DVD player being controlled remotely somehow.

  10. Good Team by speedplane · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Durie Tangri has Mark Lemley on board, probably the most renowned IP scholar currently practicing. He helped put together the google books settlement. This case will definitely be something to watch.

    --
    Fast Federal Court and I.T.C. updates