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Oracle To Give OpenOffice.org To Apache Incubator

Posted by samzenpus on from the final-destination dept.

Julie188 writes "Oracle has finally officially spilled the beans: It's proposing OpenOffice.org as an Apache Incubator project — and not handing it to The Document Foundation. Oracle had announced earlier this year that it would be passing the torch to the community, but failed to provide any specifics about the ultimate destination. The Document Foundation is the organization behind the OpenOffice fork, LibreOffice."

23 of 129 comments (clear)

  1. Choices are good, but... by Bloodwine77 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I wish OpenOffice and LibreOffice would un-fork and all the brain power stay behind one unified product.

    I know Oracle is sketchy so I understand the fork, but if Oracle is trying to offload OpenOffice back to the open source community it would be nice to put politics aside.

    Am I missing some underhanded scheme by Oracle that keeps their foot in the door on causing legal or support issues down the road?

    1. Re:Choices are good, but... by eln · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's too late for that. The egos in both organizations are entrenched now, merging would be very difficult.

    2. Re:Choices are good, but... by stating_the_obvious · · Score: 3, Informative

      If they do merge, it'll be Apache incubator giving up and joining TDF. TDF already announced that they were going forward regardless of Oracle's actions regarding giving OO back of the community. TDF welcomes all new members -- including Apache Incubator.

      At this point, TDF/LO is a stronger horse to back -- they've shown they can organize the community, and the software is (arguably) more willing to accept improvements that OO didn't (perhaps because Oracle was still working to find a way to monetize some aspect of OO)

    3. Re:Choices are good, but... by Trixter · · Score: 2

      It's too late for that. The egos in both organizations are entrenched now, merging would be very difficult.

      This is the same problem, unfortunately, as the ffmpeg vs. libav fork problem (which recently has led to odd lawsuit threats).

    4. Re:Choices are good, but... by stating_the_obvious · · Score: 2, Insightful

      my point isn't/wasn't focused on ASF -- I'm talking about the software OO vs. LO. At this point, LO appears to have a broader support base of active developers and the LO software has made a number of improvements since forking that makes it (arguably) a better platform to build from once the community unforks.

      I'm sure that ASF/incubator can do a fine job of managing OO, but since they will (if they accept) inherit lesser software and a weaker community, the onus would be on them to consider joining TSF...

    5. Re:Choices are good, but... by TemporalBeing · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, LO/TDF didn't instill much confidence at least in me that they were going to be better than what they cried fowl with per Oracle - the only difference being they didn't require copyright assignment. So I am quite pleased to see ASF receiving OOo, and hope it does very well there. I'm sure it will pick up steam and again become the de facto driver of OOo and its derivatives especially as this brings great clarity to what is going on with OOo - something that has been lacking since LO split, and probably the main driver behind the loss of momentum behind OOo itself.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    6. Re:Choices are good, but... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2

      "... but if Oracle is trying to offload OpenOffice back to the open source community it would be nice to put politics aside."

      Oracle doesn't know how to put politics aside. That's part of how they got where they are... and also part of the problem.

      I think it's pretty clear that The Document Foundation is largely made up of people who walked out in a huff as soon as they found out what working for Oracle was like... then immediately went on to make some good improvements in the code base.

      I think it's pretty clear that this is a big "fuck you" to them from Oracle. Oracle never gave a damn about their users. They want profit. That is all.

    7. Re:Choices are good, but... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2

      Well, since you value the truth: the code base is doing just fine with the Libre Office folks, and the product is better than ever. I don't see how you can even remotely compare them with Oracle, which you know very well would have mis-handled it and made it a mess for users.

  2. ORACLE by sockman · · Score: 5, Funny

    One Rich Asshole Called Larry Ellison

    1. Re:ORACLE by RazzleFrog · · Score: 3, Informative

      There are very few companies who don't use some Oracle product - whether it is their database, their eBusiness Suite, Hyperion, or Java. People don't realize how much they are impacted by Oracle.

  3. Good, now make two versions by G3ckoG33k · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Good, now make two versions, one International version and one US version.

    The international version should be the gold version, with the US version a crippled version which honors all the software patent follies going on in the US.

    The rest of the world should just ignore their sissy talk.

    Let us hope that Apache don't respect US software patents outside the US.

    1. Re:Good, now make two versions by hduff · · Score: 2

      Good, now make two versions, one International version and one US version.

      The international version should be the gold version, with the US version a crippled version which honors all the software patent follies going on in the US.

      The rest of the world should just ignore their sissy talk.

      Let us hope that Apache don't respect US software patents outside the US.

      OK as long as the US users can d/l the gold version.

      --
      "I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
    2. Re:Good, now make two versions by powerlord · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Good, now make two versions, one International version and one US version.

      The international version should be the gold version, with the US version a crippled version which honors all the software patent follies going on in the US.

      The rest of the world should just ignore their sissy talk.

      Let us hope that Apache don't respect US software patents outside the US.

      OK as long as the US users can d/l the gold version.

      But ... but ... then your Web Browser would be a circumvention device!

      That could NEVER be allowed to happen!

      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
  4. Interesting move by MAXOMENOS · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What are the odds that the Document Foundation will voluntarily merge with the Apache Foundation? Is there a licensing issue that might prevent this?

    --
    Finding God in a Dog
    1. Re:Interesting move by Migala77 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The article has a reaction from The Document Foundation, and it looks like they are not interested in reuniting; they don't like the Apache license, but say they may change LibreOffice licensing to MPL or LGPL (now that they can thanks to the new Apache license).

    2. Re:Interesting move by dkleinsc · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That suggests an even better solution:
      1. Apache takes OpenOffice off of Oracle's hands.
      2. Apache says, "Hey, Document Foundation, you want this? We'll even give you the name back."
      3. Document Foundation says "Great, we never really liked 'Libre' anyways," merges anything useful that was added pre-fork and switches back to OpenOffice branding.
      4. Users and developers are all happy, because they have all the LibreOffice features, but are back to an easily recognizable, pronounceable, and established name.

      There's no way for Oracle to win this round, that's for sure.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    3. Re:Interesting move by devent · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why is LibreOffice not recognizable or not pronounceable?
      I would rather see to take all the good parts out of OpenOffice into LibreOffice that could not have been done before and just end OpenOffice. Now that the main development will be coming from TDF anyway and all the distributions are going for LibreOffice, there will be more confusion if LO would end and OO would be resurrected.

      I see the turn more like a political one. The Apache Foundation criticized Oracle for Java and left the JCP EC, now Oracle is giving them something to come back maybe? And at the same time punish the TDO for forking OpenOffice by giving OO to Apache and as such not recognize TDF as a legit successor.

      --
      http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
    4. Re:Interesting move by gr8_phk · · Score: 2

      because the Apache license actually gives more freedom to the actual end users of the software.

      Freedom to deny others the same freedom you enjoy is not part of a free society.

  5. Let it die by C_Kode · · Score: 2

    Let it die and stick with Libre. Oracle did what they did out of spite. They thought they could control it and still get support and that didn't work so instead of doing the right thing, they gave it to Apache out of spite.

    Same thing with Hudson.

    1. Re:Let it die by VortexCortex · · Score: 3, Informative

      I suspect rather that Oracle didn't have the ability, willingness, or the guts to revise the source code licensing/assignment restrictions put in place by Sun Microsystems. And maybe they would have liked to, but could not legally resolve the assignments with a change to a more open license.

      No. Contributors to OO.org had to assign their copyright to Sun/Oracle, EXPRESSLY SO THEY COULD EASILY change the source code license at will...

      LibreOffice does not require any copyright assignment, so if they want to switch licenses they better do it before it becomes infeasible to request permission from all the copyright holding contributors. FTFAQ:

      Q: What difference will The Document Foundation make to developers?

      A: The Document Foundation sets out deliberately to be as developer friendly as possible. We do not demand that contributors share their copyright with us. People will gain status in our community based on peer evaluation of their contributions - not by who their employer is.

      Source code can only flow one way, from OO.org to LibreOffice / Document foundation, not vise versa. OO.org has a disadvantage: Their competitor (LO) can gobble up their codebase, but OO.org can not -- Well, depending on if you can get the developer to assign copyright. (Haven't cared to read the new Apache license for OO.org, but if it still requires assignment, they're toast).

  6. The solution by michelcolman · · Score: 5, Funny

    Someone should just start a new, independent fork to end the confusion once and for all.

  7. Small number of people? by MrEricSir · · Score: 2

    Next time you go the DMV, a police station, etc. take a look at what software is running. The "small number of people" includes just about everyone, since many tax-funded institutions are using (or trying to use) Oracle software.

    We could all be a bit more sympathetic to government workers who spend every day kludging through broken, half-assed software shat out by Ellison and his cronies.

    --
    There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
  8. The Document Foundation's full statement by PCM2 · · Score: 2

    Italo Vignoli of The Document Foundation mailed me the following statement this morning:

    The Document Foundation
    Statement about Oracle's move to donate OpenOffice.org assets to the Apache Foundation

    The Internet, June 1st, 2011 - The Document Foundation constitutes a global team of hundreds of developers working together to improve the LibreOffice product for the benefit of all users. We are governed by an open, and meritocratic community headed by a diverse interim Steering Committee, and a vendor neutral Engineering Steering Committee overseeing development.

    Today we welcome Oracle's donation of code that has previously been proprietary to the Apache Software Foundation. It is great to see key user features released in a form that can be included into LibreOffice.

    The Document Foundation would welcome the reuniting of the OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice projects into a single community of equals in the wake of the departure of Oracle. The step Oracle has taken today was no doubt taken in good faith, but does not appear to directly achieve this goal. The Apache community, which we respect enormously, has very different expectations and norms - licensing, membership and more - to the existing OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice projects. We regret the missed opportunity but are committed to working with all active community members to devise the best possible future for LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org.

    On the bright side, one benefit of this arrangement is the potential for future-proof licensing. The Apache License is compatible with both the LGPLv3+ and MPL licenses, allowing TDF future flexibility to move the entire codebase, to MPLv2 or future LGPL license versions. The Document Foundation believes that commercially-friendly, copy-left licensing provides the best path to constructive participation in, and growth of the project.

    Thus, the event is neutral for The Document Foundation, which - as always - remains open to every company, individual or foundation that wishes to participate in co-development. There has never been a better time to get involved and advance the state of the art in free software office suites.

    TDF is therefore willing to start talking with Apache Software Foundation, following the email from ASF President Jim Jagielski, who is anticipating frequent contacts between the Apache Software Foundation and The Document Foundation over the next few months. We all want to offer corporate and individual users worldwide the best free office suite for enterprise and personal productivity.

    Finally, TDF continue executing on a time-based release plan for LibreOffice 3.4.0, due out this week, while continuing work on the bug fix release train, with 3.4.1 due in a months time, as well as ongoing feature development for the 3.5 release.

    *** About The Document Foundation

    The Document Foundation has the mission of facilitating the evolution of the OOo Community into an open, meritocratic and democratic organization. An independent Foundation is a better reflection of the values of our contributors, users and supporters, and will enable a more inclusive, effective, efficient and transparent community. TDF will protect past investments by building on the achievements of the first decade, will encourage wide participation within the community, and will co-ordinate activity across the community.

    [Contact information deleted for mercy's sake]

    --
    Breakfast served all day!