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GPL'd Driver and Linux Support For New H.264 Capture Card

azop writes "Almost a year ago Slashdot covered the story of a MPEG-4 multiple input capture card with a GPL Video4Linux licensed driver. Earlier this year, Ben Collins added H.264 support into the solo6x10 Video4Linux2 GPL driver. The H.264 PCIe cards are finally released and shipping to customers. The new cards support faster frame rates and sport a PCIe interface. The driver is available for forkin' on Github."

21 of 119 comments (clear)

  1. Software / Firmware by dintech · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why is it important that linux drivers have source available but we don't worry so much about seeing the firmware source? Should we be pushing to see firmware source too? Instead should it not matter about seeing driver source? I'd love to hear your perspectives.

    1. Re:Software / Firmware by wvmarle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That doesn't mean firmware can not do evil things. Or does not need any quality vetting or so.

      The BIOS is a kind of firmware too, and there exist viruses that can exploit certain BIOS firmwares and to all kinds of bad things to your computer. Not sure about this specific piece of hardware but I'm quite sure that the trend is towards more and more reprogrammable firmwares, if only to fix bugs after release.

      Anyway I'd say the firmware is about as important as the OS driver. And having the source of the firmware will no doubt provide information to driver developers on how the device really works.

    2. Re:Software / Firmware by Nursie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Open firmware is also good, but take it one step at a time eh?

      An open source driver for this is great news because it means the driver, and therefore the card, can be rebuilt for different architectures, can be enhanced over time, can do all the stuff that's great about open source. Not to mention serving as a learning aid for others.

      Open firmware would be a bonus because then people have the ability to alter the behaviour of the card itself. Some people do care about this stuff so you have projects like Openmoko's Neo phones. There are also sometimes license problems related to distributing closed firmwares if the OS needs to load them into the device.

      Driver source is more important IMHO, for now, because without it (or reverse-engineered OSS drivers) some of my projects with linux on ARM would not have been possible. One example was a wireless USB card attached to an NSLU2. Windows drivers through the old ndiswrapper were no good, it's only when open source drivers were available I could proceed.

    3. Re:Software / Firmware by wvmarle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Indeed.

      And the question on why we can not see (most) firmware source code will probably the exact same answer as why we can't see (most) driver source code: patents, copyrights, proprietary algorithms, DRM, whatever.

      Yet the biggest risk lies in the devices where firmware can be changed ("flashed"), and where the device and its software must provide certain security against that happening unauthorised. There exist at least proof-of-concept BIOS viruses, maybe also actually malicious BIOS viruses. There is no reason why such viruses could not target other parts of the computer, such as hard drive firmware to hide themselves.

    4. Re:Software / Firmware by GPLHost-Thomas · · Score: 4, Informative

      At Debian, we do care about binary blob firmware without source. We put them in "non-free", and we don't consider it's part of the OS (it wont go in the released CD, etc.).

    5. Re:Software / Firmware by a10_es · · Score: 3, Interesting

      how can you be sure it has a firmware?
      it can be an FPGA, or even sillicon hard.

      I work with this device and it boots up without any kind of ROM or firmware upload.

      In this case, would you like the VHDL to be open?
      If that's the case, why not ask intel/AMD/... to release the VHDL for their current lineup?

    6. Re:Software / Firmware by tempmpi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Often the firmware is what turns a bunch of cheap standard parts into a real product. Unless you want to go open source hardware, too, you need to keep your firmware proprietary, because most of the engineering is actually part of the firmware and pcb layout is just a small part of your product. And it is easy to do a compatible pcb from the scratch.

      --
      Jan
    7. Re:Software / Firmware by GPLHost-Thomas · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And how exactly do you think they provide drivers for Broadcom NICs?

    8. Re:Software / Firmware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      From their site:

      "Update: June 7th, 2011 - Several important things to note, the BC-H series H.264 cards do not have at traditional firmware that is loaded. Everything is accessed directly from the driver / user space applications. Secondly, we report sales of each encoder to MPEGLA and pay any necessary patent fees for the sale of each encoder, meaning that any cards purchased from Bluecherry already have the patent protection from MPEGLA for the device level encoder."

      So, in this case the discussion is moot - this card doesn't need any shady things to run on my computer - i am getting one!

    9. Re:Software / Firmware by Vuojo · · Score: 2

      From the site: Update: June 7th, 2011 - Several important things to note, the BC-H series H.264 cards do not have at traditional firmware that is loaded. Everything is accessed directly from the driver / user space applications. Secondly, we report sales of each encoder to MPEGLA and pay any necessary patent fees for the sale of each encoder, meaning that any cards purchased from Bluecherry already have the patent protection from MPEGLA for the device level encoder.

    10. Re:Software / Firmware by CTachyon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Why is it important that linux drivers have source available but we don't worry so much about seeing the firmware source? Should we be pushing to see firmware source too? Instead should it not matter about seeing driver source? I'd love to hear your perspectives.

      Device A has an open source driver, proprietary guts, and a firmware blob loaded by the driver on boot.

      Device B has an open source driver, proprietary guts, and a firmware blob hidden in an immutable ROM on the device that you don't know about.

      For some reason, Debian scorns Device A and praises Device B, even if the firmware blob for Device A allows unlimited redistribution. For the most part I like Debian, but that policy is just silly: Device A is the one that has the greater potential for end-user hackability.

      --
      Range Voting: preference intensity matters
  2. Also not necessiarly that useful by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Funny

    Depends on the device but the firmware may well be something that isn't very accessible to users. For example if the device uses an FPGA, which many do, then the firmware might be the FPGA programming. Ok fair enough, but do you have the Xilinx development software and hardware, not to mention expertise, to mess with it? Not nearly as easy or cheap as firing up a compiler and messing with a driver.

    Even if not, if the firmware is just code for something onboard kinda like a BIOS/UEFI on a PC, it could still be pretty difficult for users to deal with.

    There's also the issue of bricking the device. Messing with the driver might screw up the OS if done badly enough, but the device should be fine. However messing with the firmware could render the device unusable, and depending on how bad it was messed up could render it unfixable in that you couldn't flash a stock firmware back on it.

    Too much risk for not much reward overall, which is probably a big reason not to do it.

    1. Re:Also not necessiarly that useful by Tetsujin · · Score: 2

      Look, the device needs to have a way to update its own firmware, right? Usually this is in code, in the firmware. If you overwrite the firmware, and you fuck this part up, you can't update over your FUBAR custom firmware. The general public considers this "bricked" because they don't want to start soldering stuff to the JTAG terminal or whatever.

      Consider this wild notion:
      Allow all the firmware except the bootloader to be overwritten by the bootloader. Then if you brick it, you can still use the bootloader to fix it.

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
  3. Re:InB4nowMozillahasnoexcuse by soundguy · · Score: 2

    It's OK for a final distribution codec as long as you have the horsepower to decode it, but it sucks rabid weasel scrotums for acquisition and editing. With common hard drives at 3 TB, ubiquitous gigabit ethernet on LANs, and incredibly fast internal and external bus speeds, there's simply no reason to use an interframe codec or high compression ratios for anything but web delivery.

    --
    Nothing worthwhile ever happens before noon
  4. Re:Can it capture HDMI or is it useless? by White+Flame · · Score: 2

    It takes BNC inputs, which is common for security cameras and takes analog SD video.

  5. Re:InB4nowMozillahasnoexcuse by DrXym · · Score: 2

    The world is truly better off without H.264

    Why? It's a good codec as demonstrated by its wide adoption.

  6. patents by shentino · · Score: 3, Informative

    Good show.

    But all the open source drivers in the world won't mean diddly squat if the h264 patent pool gets in the way.

    1. Re:patents by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Informative

      My understanding, from TFPR, is that the card does h.246 encoding onboard(and the manufacturer of the card has paid their protection money to the MPEG LA) so the driver has no h.246 related duties, it just configures the card and collects the encoded output.

      Obviously, since the output is h.246, it'll need to be decoded for use, which does raise the patent issue; but not at the driver level.

  7. Cable Card by markdavis · · Score: 2

    The REAL issue with Linux/FOSS video right now is the total lack of support for Cable Card and Tuning Adapters. Without them, there is no way to make an effective Linux DVR other than just over-the-air recordings. Gone are the days of "cable ready", analog, and in-the-clear digital.

    Of course, that is not the fault of Linux, but of the media giants and cable companies who are just terrified of someone sharing/ripping their content.

    1. Re:Cable Card by mrand · · Score: 2

      An effective Linux DVR is possible. I know it is not ideal, but you can use an HD-PVR in Linux to capture (in 1080i) the output of any device that provides component output. That's what many MythTV users do... rent the cable company box and just capture the output. Like I said, not ideal, but it is possible, and many are doing it.

      Marc

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      -- PGP keyID: 0x4C95994D
  8. Re:InB4nowMozillahasnoexcuse by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

    The thing that makes H.264 bad for editing is not that it is lossy, it is the interframe compression. DV cameras use a variant of MJPEG, where each frame uses JPEG-like compression, but is compressed independently. This means that you can slice the video between any pair of frames without reencoding. If your source is H.264, then it has bidirectional interframe compression, meaning that every frame between key frames depends on the contents of the frames before and after it. If you slice the video anywhere other than a keyframe, you must reencode the frames before and after, which degrades the quality. It takes about 10GB/hour for SD with DV compression, but if you're doing anything more complex than just putting the entire clip on YouTube it's probably worth it.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News