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International Monetary Fund Hit By Cyber Attack

DotNM writes "CityNews and other media outlets are reporting that the International Monetary Fund has been hit by a 'cyber attack.' They are withholding most of the details; however, it is known that the World Bank has shut down a 'link' between them and the IMF." Adds reader Hugh Pickens, "A cyber security expert told Reuters the infiltration had been a targeted attack, which installed software designed to give a nation state a 'digital insider presence' at the IMF. 'The code was developed and released for this purpose,' said Tom Kellerman, who has worked for the Fund. Bloomberg quoted an unnamed security expert as saying the hackers were connected to a foreign government — however, such attacks are very difficult to trace."

208 comments

  1. Anonymous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Must've been Anonymous. Like usual.

    1. Re:Anonymous by Lysander7 · · Score: 1

      ...or it could have been Lulzsec or any other organization or individuals. Believe it or not, there are for more hackers out there than just Anon.

    2. Re:Anonymous by Kagura · · Score: 1

      It's the Cylons. This is exactly why we don't network our systems together.

    3. Re:Anonymous by improfane · · Score: 3, Funny

      I actually laughed out.

      The most secure computer is one that is not on the internet or networked to other computers. I am surprised BSG preaches that to the mainstream. Or that never sleep with robots.

      A BSG ship must be one that must be managed by a team of sysadmins. If you can't network you must have one physical computer per subsystem.

      sudo /etc/init.d/hyperdrive restart
      Password:
      Core dump: Failed to restart, not aligned
      Hint: Is antimatter callibrator powered and within frequency range?
      vim /etc/hyperdrive.conf

      --
      Slashdot needs Geekcode | Can anyone recommend any good SCIFI? My tastes: Foundation, Startide Rising, CITY, Ringworld,
    4. Re:Anonymous by sqrt(2) · · Score: 2

      Remember Stuxnet? it was deliberately designed to infect machines that were not connected to the internet by jumping aboard USB thumb drives. Just not being connected to the net isn't enough, although it certainly helps isolate you from the vast majority of the attacks an outside force could try. If that machine is in contact with any other machines, in any way, it's possible to be compromised unless even greater security measures are implemented.

      So the most secure machine is one that is not networked with any other machines, and is not allowed contact with any other machines, even vicariously through sharing files.

      --
      If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
    5. Re:Anonymous by DrBoumBoum · · Score: 1

      by jumping aboard USB thumb drives

      Which indicates that the systems were running Windows XP which is the only OS out there with the autorun "feature". If you're using a Windows OS to run critical industrial facilities then you really deserve to be hacked and have your facility shut down. This system was never intended to do that.

      If you want a secure setup use a decent Unix variant to run your servers; you can even have them accessible from the outside if you know what you're doing.

    6. Re:Anonymous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      QuickTime in classic Mac OS had an autoplay feature for CD-ROM content. Not so easy to exploit (no executables), but still doable with a suitable security hole.

    7. Re:Anonymous by lahvak · · Score: 1

      You don't need autoplay for infection. Most viruses in the times of DOS spread in floppy disks, and there was no autoplay feature in DOS. Whatever system you are using, it has to access the media in order to learn about things like its filesystem, even before that, there has to be a driver of some sort for the actual hardware. If there is a bug in the code handling any of these things, an infection can occur long time before any autorun feature would even kick in.

      --
      AccountKiller
    8. Re:Anonymous by GIL_Dude · · Score: 2

      Actually Stuxnet has been analyzed pretty well and would have attacked Windows XP, Windows Vista, and Windows 7 - no autoplay required. Remember the purpose of placing a USB key in one of these machines is to copy data from / to it because the machines aren't networked and the data has to be analyzed. In this case, a couple of zero day vulnerabilities were utilized that caused Windows to get infected by just opening the folder. Mark Russinovich did a nice, digestible 3 part write up on it that starts here: http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussinovich/archive/2011/03/30/3416253.aspx.

    9. Re:Anonymous by Demonoid-Penguin · · Score: 1

      You don't need autoplay for infection. Most viruses in the times of DOS spread in floppy disks, and there was no autoplay feature in DOS. Whatever system you are using, it has to access the media in order to learn about things like its filesystem, even before that, there has to be a driver of some sort for the actual hardware. If there is a bug in the code handling any of these things, an infection can occur long time before any autorun feature would even kick in.

      Did you have the light on when you had breakfast? Me thinks you ate a bowl full of thick pills instead of your wheeties! I hope so - because otherwise you are barking mad.

      In the days of MS/PC/4/IMB-DOS malware (like "del. > nul" in a setup.bat) on floppy drives required the user to actually execute the .exe/.com/.bat file.

    10. Re:Anonymous by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      Propagation through Interrupt 13. When BIOS routines managed all disk access for the OS.

      01h 02h and 03h were the handler subs which gave you a vector for the MBR-type of virus.

      McAfee used to update signatures quarterly...

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    11. Re:Anonymous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think he is referring to a boot sector virus... which still makes it a completely retarded post.

    12. Re:Anonymous by Demonoid-Penguin · · Score: 1

      Propagation through Interrupt 13. When BIOS routines managed all disk access for the OS.

      01h 02h and 03h were the handler subs which gave you a vector for the MBR-type of virus.

      McAfee used to update signatures quarterly...

      No dispute there. But.... it still requires user intervention. I know some of the GNU folk'll hate me - but an OS - from Windows to Oberon can be compromised by the user. If the user is stupid. If one does something detrimental to oneself it. is. stupid. Even rocket scientists can be stupid. A rocket scientist who lights a cigarette beside a leaking oxygen cylinder is stupid. Our choice of OS and how we treat that choice is like choosing how many leaking oxygen cylinders we keep close by. Because we're human, and sooner or later, we will do something stupid. All we can do is concentrate, and try and keep our environment as forgiving of stupidity as possible.

      It's a subtlety lost on many - like the idea that rarely do things have only two states. Further prove of evolution at work. ;-p

    13. Re:Anonymous by elsurexiste · · Score: 2

      Which indicates that the systems were running Windows XP which is the only OS out there with the autorun "feature". If you're using a Windows OS to run critical industrial facilities then you really deserve to be hacked and have your facility shut down. This system was never intended to do that.

      If you want a secure setup use a decent Unix variant to run your servers; you can even have them accessible from the outside if you know what you're doing.

      That is false, I'm afraid.

      A guy at IBM did an online presentation about that. Ubuntu, by default, comes with thumbnail generation activated by default when you insert a USB drive (no autorun, though). After that, he took advantage of a few shortcomings of PDF and video which, combined with this default conf, escalated his privileges all the way to root. Lost the video link, maybe other /.ers may help.

      Conclusion: the choice of OS is not, by itself, a security measure. Servers running Windows can be secure, as you said, if you know what you're doing. I agree with you on that: don't put amateurs to manage your servers, be them Unix-like or Windows.

      --
      I rarely respond to comments. Also, don't ask for clarifications: a brain and Google are faster, believe me!
    14. Re:Anonymous by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      Oh. I agree with you.

      Technology as a control will never trump every unexpected or incompetent use of any system.

      That's the difference in InfoSec between the POV of a Security Technologist and a Security Practitioner. ;-)

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    15. Re:Anonymous by DrBoumBoum · · Score: 1

      Interesting read, however in this case just as in the case of DOS boot sector viruses mentioned in another response, the problem stems from the propensity of Microsoft operating systems to automatically execute code on behalf of the user, which makes sense for an end-user systems oriented towards non-technical savvy users but is totally uncalled for in a production environment. Unix doesn't have any such feature, and rightly so; this kind of attack would have been infinitely more difficult, if not impossible to convey on any serious server system. The only justification for running a Windows server is a production environment is really incompetence IMHO.

    16. Re:Anonymous by lahvak · · Score: 1

      In the days of MS/PC/4/IMB-DOS malware (like "del. > nul" in a setup.bat) on floppy drives required the user to actually execute the .exe/.com/.bat file.

      And what does that have to do with autoplay? If you use a USB drive, you usually use it because you want to access the data on it. In that aspect, I don't see any difference between a floppy and a USB drive. If an infection was possible using a floppy disk, why wouldn't it work using a USB drive? Whether it is an infected executable, modified data that triggers a buffer overflow in a program that reads it, or a boot sector type virus.

      Other thing I was trying to point out is the fact that you actually don't need to wait for the device to be mounted. With USB, the computer communicates with the device for quite a while in order to determine what kind of device it is, what kind of filesystem it has, etc. Theoretically there is a possibility for infection at any time during this process. Thinking that just because you don't have autoplay you are save is, IMHO, stupid.

      --
      AccountKiller
    17. Re:Anonymous by Demonoid-Penguin · · Score: 1

      In the days of MS/PC/4/IMB-DOS malware (like "del. > nul" in a setup.bat) on floppy drives required the user to actually execute the .exe/.com/.bat file.

      And what does that have to do with autoplay? If you use a USB drive, you usually use it because you want to access the data on it. In that aspect, I don't see any difference between a floppy and a USB drive. If an infection was possible using a floppy disk, why wouldn't it work using a USB drive? Whether it is an infected executable, modified data that triggers a buffer overflow in a program that reads it, or a boot sector type virus.

      Other thing I was trying to point out is the fact that you actually don't need to wait for the device to be mounted. With USB, the computer communicates with the device for quite a while in order to determine what kind of device it is, what kind of filesystem it has, etc. Theoretically there is a possibility for infection at any time during this process. Thinking that just because you don't have autoplay you are save is, IMHO, stupid.

      No dispute there. I expressed myself poorly. (please accept my unreserved apologies) I meant (and I've explained it better earlier, further down in this thread) that malware requires users to propagate. Disclaimer I run *nix. Relying on the OS to keep data safe is a user failing.

      And yes - you are perfectly correct. Boot sector infections were common. It used to be amusing to replace the DOS boot sector error message with "Hello McAfee" just to see mcafee's crap signature identification call it a virus.

      Thinking that just because you don't have autoplay you are safe is, IMHO, stupid.

      Yes (again, and I've covered the "stupid" bit in another post). The exact name escapes me (USB switchblade?) but one of the projects developed as a result of the COFEE leak does just that - and it doesn't use the same mechanism as Stuxnet.

      @DrBoumBoum *nix is quite capable of autoplay. Many of the current main distros prompt the user to associate actions with device detection events - and only last week I came across another setuid stupidity. Combine the two and it's a disaster. Just because our beloved OS separates the toilet from the kitchen there's always some 'tard that knock down the intervening wall. Spend a little time on the forums and see how many people run a desktop as root. (sigh). Sometimes I suspect the helmet, knee pads, elbow pads, and gloves mentality makes people complacent (a risky OS might make people more cautious.

  2. Social engineering and clickers by jhoegl · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Not much info is given, but it looks like someone got an email, they clicked it and then got infected.

    So the hack was really just an employee doing something.

    1. Re:Social engineering and clickers by UBfusion · · Score: 1

      Must have been a "click my boobs to see them juggle" email.

    2. Re:Social engineering and clickers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Juggling boobs?

      Now that's a talent.

    3. Re:Social engineering and clickers by IrquiM · · Score: 1

      Hate those - they always get me!

      --
      This is blinging
    4. Re:Social engineering and clickers by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 4, Funny

      Must have been a "click my boobs to see them juggle" email.

      This was the IMF so they probably clicked one of those 'Pay Day Loan' emails to check up on the competition ;-)

    5. Re:Social engineering and clickers by Errtu76 · · Score: 5, Funny

      mod this up to see my boobies

    6. Re:Social engineering and clickers by Mikkeles · · Score: 1

      Being the IMF, it was actually 'HOT HOT HOT Hotel Maids!!!!'

      --
      Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
    7. Re:Social engineering and clickers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Now where are the boobies?

    8. Re:Social engineering and clickers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are no girls on the internet, and I don't want to see your man boobs.

    9. Re:Social engineering and clickers by ajzimm3rman · · Score: 0

      LOL!

  3. IOW, the Chinese by gmhowell · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Bloomberg quoted an unnamed security expert as saying the hackers were connected to a foreign government — however, such attacks are very difficult to trace."

    IOW, the Chinese did it, and everyone is too fucking scared to point the finger.

    --
    Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    1. Re:IOW, the Chinese by ThatsMyNick · · Score: 2

      Or those pesky Russians, it cant be Americans obviously.

    2. Re:IOW, the Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's exactly what the guy responsible for the cyber attacks would say!

    3. Re:IOW, the Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nonsense, if the Chinese did it, that would have been an act of war. Don't you remember that fancy speech? Only choice is to blame Anonymous. The extra excuse for new laws is a bonus of course.

    4. Re:IOW, the Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm sorry, but after seeing how the IMF and the World Bank basically actively keep the desperate state of Africa up, causing horrible wars and mass-starvation, just for the wealth of the "west",
      I, for one, proudly proclaim, that anyone who tries to kick their asses for that cause, is a hero to me, and anyone who disagrees will be force-moved to Africa, and get a good luck wish from me. (Won't help him one bit though).

      Luckily, I know most people here are pretty educated about such things.

      P.S.: If it was China, which I disagree with, I don't think they did it for that cause though.

    5. Re:IOW, the Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Or those pesky Russians, it cant be Americans obviously.

      No need. The Americans can download whatever code they like in Windows Update. No hacking required.

    6. Re:IOW, the Chinese by mutherhacker · · Score: 1

      At last, the bully country is scared of somebody. The tides are turning.

      I for one welcome our new communist overlords. How much worse than the US reign can it be?

    7. Re:IOW, the Chinese by jpapon · · Score: 2

      Ever been to North Korea? That much worse.

      --
      -- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
    8. Re:IOW, the Chinese by Pharmboy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You have led a sheltered life if you have to ask that question. As phucked up as US foreign policy is, the US is still the lesser of all the available evils. At least here in the US, we can (and do) speak out about our policies. Try that in China.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    9. Re:IOW, the Chinese by lexsird · · Score: 5, Funny

      Haha, I was wondering what "America has defaulted on its Chinese loans!" means? Does that mean we are going to be evicted? That is what CountryWide Loans did to me and my wife when we defaulted on our mortgage. "Whoopsie, catch you next month?" didn't cut is for us too many times. Doesn't Proverbs or something read "A borrower is slave to the lender?" and "Never a borrower or lender be?" I guess nobody played Monopoly either. Here's one thing about playing Monopoly, what happens when the big kid flips the board over and pounds you with your own Radio Flyer Wagon?

      China: "USA...you land on Park Place, it has hotel, you owe me, I win!
      USA: "grrrr...."
      China: "you empty pockets NOW!"
      USA: "You want wants in my pockets? Ok...here you go. BOOOOOOOOM, it's a thermal nuke from space! I guess you shouldn't try hacking us..lol."
      China: "Jokes on you, we have nanobot and organic weapons we have been seeding you from Wal-Mart! You will all turn to zombies, we will rule the world!"
      Australia: "Eastern Australia is attacking Western Australia...I need card, and I am strat moving all my armies to Siam....What?"
      Britain: "I say old chap, you are playing the wrong game! It's Monopoly, not RISK."
      Alfred E. Newman: What? Me worry?

      --
      Take the Red Pill.
    10. Re:IOW, the Chinese by harrytuttle777 · · Score: 1

      What about 'International' did you not understand?

    11. Re:IOW, the Chinese by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      At least here in the US, we can (and do) speak out about our policies.

      The thing is, that is changing rapidly. People are now regularly being accused of terrorism for pointing out flaws and failures. If we allow this situation to worsen...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    12. Re:IOW, the Chinese by dbIII · · Score: 2

      Sadly North Korea isn't much like China. Refugees flee North Korea to what looks to them like the free, peaceful and democratic utopia of China - that's how bad North Korea is from what little we can work out from the outside. I know someone from China that last heard from their North Korean relatives around thirty years ago when relations between the two countries broke down. It's a country that doesn't trust anybody and seems to be run right out of the pages from 1984.

    13. Re:IOW, the Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least here in the US, we can (and do) speak out about our policies. Try that in China.

      Try doing it in a public place.

      Hurr, durr, freedumbs; herp de derp.

      Try opening your fucking eyes to what actually goes on in the US these days.

    14. Re:IOW, the Chinese by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Modded 'insightful'

      PS: If they know all about it, wouldn't it be better to keep quiet and tweak the code to send out false information...?

      --
      No sig today...
    15. Re:IOW, the Chinese by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it comforts me a lot that I can talk about how fucked up the system is here while I can only sit and stare helplessly in China.

      Though... somehow the difference is just a lot of talking.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    16. Re:IOW, the Chinese by mutherhacker · · Score: 1

      Yes yes, keep telling yourselves that. If it helps you sleep at night. Please, keep pretending like nothing's wrong.

      Regarding the freedom of speech thing, according to the Reporters Without Borders 2010 Press Freedom Index, the United States is currently 20th in the world in terms of press freedom.
      Censorship in the US.

    17. Re:IOW, the Chinese by poity · · Score: 1

      People are now regularly being accused of terrorism for pointing out flaws and failures.

      Care to list some examples of people indicted for "terrorism" when all they did was "point out flaws and failures"?

      --
      your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
    18. Re:IOW, the Chinese by alfredo · · Score: 1

      If so, the IMF takes over our economy. Judging from what they have done to countries like Malawi, Niger, and other victims, they will sell our assets off at pennies on the dollar to domestic and foreign corporations, force the end to the social safety net, workers rights, and any charitable work by the government. Famine and other cases of human suffering has no effect on the IMF. Corporate profit is all that matters. We will be owned by the people who forced this crisis. It is called "Disaster Capitalism."

      --
      photosMy Photostream
    19. Re:IOW, the Chinese by X.25 · · Score: 1

      You have led a sheltered life if you have to ask that question. As phucked up as US foreign policy is, the US is still the lesser of all the available evils. At least here in the US, we can (and do) speak out about our policies. Try that in China.

      What's the point of repeating this concept every day? That's pretty much all you can do right now. Talk.

      Everything else is controlled.

    20. Re:IOW, the Chinese by Demonoid-Penguin · · Score: 1

      Bloomberg quoted an unnamed security expert as saying the hackers were connected to a foreign government — however, such attacks are very difficult to trace."

      Not as difficult to trace as "unnamed security experts".

      I'm going to get flack from a hopper load of "Certifeyed" "Ethical Hackers" (with links to their business touting security blogs in their homepage link but...

      an "unnamed security expert" is an oxymoron (they tend to be attention whores). Seriously - it's like reading "an unnamed actor today said he/she had been asked to take over Charlie Sheen's job". Bullshit. Even a bullet in the brain wouldn't stop 'em from letting the media know who they were - even if it meant crawling through a million letter boxes to correct the article by hand. (sigh) Slashdot is increasingly becoming a venue for binspam and a posting ground for the ponderously autistic.

    21. Re:IOW, the Chinese by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Care to list some examples of people indicted for "terrorism" when all they did was "point out flaws and failures"?

      Indicted? The accusation is sufficient to cause harm.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    22. Re:IOW, the Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nonsense, if the Chinese did it, that would have been an act of war. Don't you remember that fancy speech? Only choice is to blame Anonymous. The extra excuse for new laws is a bonus of course.

      OK - it's true that Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton have been wanting to do this for years - and sure they've been hiring the people to do it... but it definitely was Anonymous.

    23. Re:IOW, the Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Thermal nuke"? You seemed like such an educated troll, before I read your comment.

    24. Re:IOW, the Chinese by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

      If so, the IMF takes over our economy. Judging from what they have done to countries like Malawi, Niger, and other victims, they will sell our assets off at pennies on the dollar to domestic and foreign corporations, force the end to the social safety net, workers rights, and any charitable work by the government. Famine and other cases of human suffering has no effect on the IMF. Corporate profit is all that matters.

      We will be owned by the people who forced this crisis. It is called "Disaster Capitalism."

      It's happening in the USA too. At the state and Federal level we're being told that we can no longer afford workers' rights and the social safety net, though somehow we can afford tax breaks for billionaires and corporations.

      Basically, those who already have most of the money are using its power to squeeze more out of those who only have a little.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    25. Re:IOW, the Chinese by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      He said "accused". You changed it to "indicted". Why did you feel the need to move the goalposts? Because of course he's right.

    26. Re:IOW, the Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There will be a lot of implications if America ever defaults on its loans, but since America needs to get NEW loans everyday to survive, unlike your one-off home mortgage, the major problem will be the increased difficulty and cost to borrow extra money.

    27. Re:IOW, the Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, people can/do speak out about the policies, but unfortunately nothing can/will be done to change them, apart from bitching around and hoping (in vain, it shows) there will be improvements after the next election.

      In the end, it is not so much different.

    28. Re:IOW, the Chinese by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      Devaluing the currency by reckless spending is the equivalent to defaulting on its loans. Only fools hold US dollars for any length of time nowadays.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    29. Re:IOW, the Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Knowing that you have been spending more than you have, and that the debt will be hitting the ceiling soon, but still insists on spending like a spoiled brat, I will call this "crisis" : "you-ask-for-it disaster" instead.

    30. Re:IOW, the Chinese by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      That's just nonsense. "Devaluing the currency" = inflation. US inflation doesn't look at all bad by historical standards.

      http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx

      Flick to the 1976-1987 tab if you want to see what high inflation looks like.

    31. Re:IOW, the Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      did you mean manipulating US dollars indirectly by QE I and QE II? so that the value of US dollars will be driven down and countries like China and Japan will get less money back as a result?

    32. Re:IOW, the Chinese by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      Oh I know - I lived through the 1970's. I remember the price of a corvette before and after.

      You are forgetting, however, that inflation is now calculated differently. I don't really care what those numbers say anymore because they are now completely fictitious since the 1990's. Living outside the US I can see what's happening to the exchange rates - the US dollar used to be strong, a "safe haven". Not anymore. But hey why should I care, I'm sitting on a fair chunk of gold and silver (the real thing, not "certificates"), and a few hundred hectares of arable farmland. You go ahead and trust your paper and your "official" government figures.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    33. Re:IOW, the Chinese by alfredo · · Score: 1

      Read "The Shock Doctrine" by Naomi Klein. Remember the spending was on tax cuts for millionaires and wars that only served to fill the pockets of the rich war profiteers. Now the corporatist want to give more tax cuts to the rich, then cut services for the poor, old, and sick. The rich have looted our treasury and now want us of the working class to pay for their treasonous act.

      --
      photosMy Photostream
    34. Re:IOW, the Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This gets modded "funny". We better hope it is funny.

    35. Re:IOW, the Chinese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would you like to play a game of thermonuclear war?

    36. Re:IOW, the Chinese by poity · · Score: 1

      Ok, I'll accept "accused." Examples please.

      --
      your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
    37. Re:IOW, the Chinese by lexsird · · Score: 1

      Consider how our military is not at home, National Guard isn't here either. Its classical if you look at it. The carpetbaggers are going to pick the countryside clean while the men are away at war. Consider how the housing market practically destroyed the economy of this country. The mass proliferation of mortgages, "home improvement loans" and the whatnot that have paved the way to urban decimation. We've been hit by an atomic economic bomb. We just haven't wised up to how it has happened.

      We are also in some kind of mental paralysis when it comes to resistance. I think we are frankly bludgeoned with a systematic reinforcement system to keep us in order. If we ever snapped out of it, they are toast, all of them.

      Here is the first truth that will set your mind free:

      The world that you think you know is one big fat lie.

      Once you have that epiphany, all the other lies start to fall into place, and you start seeing through the petty fogging and the red herrings, the obfuscation fades as you see it all for the bullshit that it is, and you have to face the horror of what real evil is. Not here, not me, thoughts that echo through all minds when facing these things. Recognize your own denial of truths, and turn to face the challenge or pass into the night. Embrace the madness, live on the edge, surf the tsunami that the destroys the world.

      Then, you have to ask yourself these important questions. Why? Motive is an amazing thing. Why would those in power do some insane "lets make as much money as we can for fuck sakes!" stunt like this. Knowing that after it gets sorted out, they are going to swing from a tree. Unless....that isn't going to be a problem.

      Why wouldn't that be a problem? Do they know something that we don't? Could there be something to this convoluted conspiracy theory crap? What if out of all of these wacko conspiracy theories that we have cooking that ONE of them is balls on right? Don't we have a department for that? If not, why the hell not? I would like to apply for the job if I may, if we still have a government in the foreseeable future.

      Job Title: Grand Inquisitor of Conspiracies. GIC? That will not do. Besides it sounds too Catholic, they can have that one for free. Anyway, I digress...

      What do they know that I don't? Hmm? Surely /. people know. Let's ask?

      --
      Take the Red Pill.
    38. Re:IOW, the Chinese by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      China lent you all that money specifically so it could then exert control over the US and prevent you from screwing them or any other east Asian country.

      In the 90s the US invested a lot of money in South Korea and Indonesia building property. The demand wasn't there and the bubble burst, causing deep recessions in those countries. China decided it wouldn't allow that to happen again, especially not to China itself, and so proceeded to manage the US by keeping its own currency artificially low and lending heavily. Now the US can never screw China because the result would be ruin in both countries, or Mutually Assured Destruction.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    39. Re:IOW, the Chinese by Chicken_Kickers · · Score: 1

      I had a hard time trying to understand what you wrote. I think you meant that the US can ignore all its debts to China by threatening to go to war. You forget, real wars cost money and it is hard to fight when you don't have it. You also forget that the moment the US defaults, its credit rating so to speak goes to hell and the US dollar will become worthless. So, go ahead. Keep borrowing from your future rival. I leave you with a quotation from Paul Muad'dib: He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing.

    40. Re:IOW, the Chinese by lexsird · · Score: 1

      Kill my country's economy, destroy my way of life and see what happens.

      --
      Take the Red Pill.
    41. Re:IOW, the Chinese by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 1

      and anyone who disagrees will be force-fed to Africa

      FTFY

    42. Re:IOW, the Chinese by alfredo · · Score: 1

      The "ownership society" was all about imprisoning us with debt. We thought we would own a home, but it turned out that the bank owns us. Some totalitarian countries keep people in line with guns and tanks, ours uses soul less corporations and banks.

      --
      photosMy Photostream
    43. Re:IOW, the Chinese by lexsird · · Score: 1

      Haha! Thanks for pointing that out! Often if I don't see the spell checker red underline, I don't proof as hard before submitting. Who doesn't?

      Thermonuclear War and if you look for the term with Google, you don't seem to come up with much more than a War Games quote. Its quite the horror show actually, one we would all just like to ignore; both the movie and the situation.

      --
      Take the Red Pill.
    44. Re:IOW, the Chinese by AlecC · · Score: 1

      IOW, the Chinese did it, and everyone is too fucking scared to point the finger.

      The Israelis have not been picky about who they spy on provided they have plausible deniability. Iran has been honing its cyber-skills. Others like the Russians have been there before, especially via arms-length "not the government, honestly" approved-of hackers. While I agree that the Chinese would be the lead suspects, there are plenty of others in the frame.

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
  4. Who am I to believe? by UBfusion · · Score: 1

    According to conspiracy theories, bringing the current currencies down so that a new world order arises will be an Inside Job (TM).

    1. Re:Who am I to believe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      According to conspiracy theories, bringing the current currencies down so that a new world order arises will be an Inside Job (TM).

      Again with the Bitcoin.

      oi.

    2. Re:Who am I to believe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You already lost the game, when you accepted belief instead of facts.
      I, as a social engineer, would thrive on you, if I weren't on your side here.
      Basically, you already did my job. All I would have to do, is feed you "news" about whatever reality I want you to believe in. Causing you to act, based upon that "reality". Resulting in whatever I want you to do. You'd even defend me against others, because your beliefs would be me.
      Yes, "evil" just doesn't describe it anymore. And yes, that's why it's only acceptable for me, to do something good with it. (Like educate people about it.)

      If you want to know what to think, look at this: Pierce’s cycle of scientific knowledge development.
      Notice how it says "observation". Personal observation. And even that can deceive you. (Hence there are optical illusions and "magicans".)
      But it's the best you've got. And rational thinking (logic is good, but they can't free you from emotions) does the rest.
      Everything else, news, friends, books, me... are just external sources, and hence inherently can't give you any guarantees. You can choose to trust them. But then you also trust their agenda. As all they say, is for the purpose of that agenda. (That's not evil. It's just natural. Their agenda can also be something good to you.)

      So make wise choices, and when in doubt, never ever "believe". :)

    3. Re:Who am I to believe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well helicopter Ben is doing well enough bringing the US dollar down while the empty suit Obama is gunning for another Nobel Peace Prize by widening the war in Libya and even Yemen. Prepare for higher inflation, higher energy prices, more conflict, more bs regulations, just more BS!!

    4. Re:Who am I to believe? by UBfusion · · Score: 1

      Thank you for spelling out the word I didn't dare to mention, but I think the chessboard is much bigger.

    5. Re:Who am I to believe? by UBfusion · · Score: 1

      Thank you for the encouraging words, Anonymous. I believe you meant Charles Sanders Peirce and not Pierce.

    6. Re:Who am I to believe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wat?

    7. Re:Who am I to believe? by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 1

      Ah, I see for the moment the Party Line requires that Obama be an empty suit. No doubt when it's time to pass some legislation, he'll be an evil satanic genius perverting the system from within.

      If you want energy prices to go down, the only thing that's going to make that happen is the civil wars in the middle east being resolved. That and gutpunching the oil companies and putting our boots on their necks for intentionally manipulating the market, but with the Republicans being what they are I'll count on the wars being over first.

    8. Re:Who am I to believe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ooops. Forgot to close the </strong> tag.

    9. Re:Who am I to believe? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      You already lost the game, when you accepted belief instead of facts. (...) So make wise choices, and when in doubt, never ever "believe". :)

      The future is always conjecture, whether you're trying to choose a pickup line or decide what your major in college should be. True, generally compliments work better than insults but you'll never have the facts until afterwards. Life is not a scientific experiment because it's impossible to recreate, or as the old Greeks put it: "No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." When you have the facts it is already history, you can not go back and change the past. And even so, you never have the facts about how the alternatives would work out. Of all the possible conversation you might have had, you only know the outcome of the one you actually did.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    10. Re:Who am I to believe? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

      That and gutpunching the oil companies and putting our boots on their necks for intentionally manipulating the market

      I read somewhere last week that a study has come out showing that 90% of the people driving oil prices up (by betting thus on the market) were just financial racketeers who don't actually do business related to oil.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    11. Re:Who am I to believe? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

      Obama is gunning for another Nobel Peace Prize by widening the war in Libya and even Yemen.

      Supporting the protesters in one, and bombing them in the other.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    12. Re:Who am I to believe? by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      And I read just here that you are full of shit.

      Speculators do not make the price of the product they speculate in. They TAKE the price. When the price moves in their favor, they make money. When the price moves against them, they lose money. If you want to know what is moving the price of oil, consider the fact that China is a country with about 5 times the population of the US, with an economy that is growing at over 10% per year. China just last year has REPLACED the US as Germany's biggest customer. Yeah, most Chinese are still dirt poor, but the Chinese middle and upper classes are growing. When you have 1.4 billion people with just 1% of the population being rich, that's still 14 million extremely wealthy individuals - around the population of New York City. Even if you say that the "middle class" that can afford cars and TV's and pharmaceuticals and anything created by our oil based technology is 10% of the population, that's 140 million well off Chinese - half the population of the US.

      Don't even get me started on countries like India, Indonesia, Brazil and Nigeria. Have a look at those populations and economic growth figures too. They all need oil more than ever before and are growing much more than the anemic 2% shown by the US.

      Speculators have nothing to do with it. But I invite you to short crude oil if you think the price is about to "collapse".

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    13. Re:Who am I to believe? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      You're both right. Speculators on mass can of of course move the price enormously. See the .com boom. Lots of buyers seeing .coms as the next big thing, boosted by on-line stockbroking bringing in lots of new speculators into the market.

      The growth of China obviously effects the oil price too.

      And then there are other causes - the wars in the middle east, the uprisings in north africa, the Deepwater Horizon, the fact that we are near peak oil, and more...

  5. 300 quatloos on the insurgent by Hazel+Bergeron · · Score: 1

    Is this to be interpreted as a declaration of war on the IMF? Because that was long overdue.

    1. Re:300 quatloos on the insurgent by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      This was attempted in 1939, with well known results.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    2. Re:300 quatloos on the insurgent by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      An attempt at war on the IMF in 1939 would be rather difficult given that the IMF wasn't formed till 1945.

    3. Re:300 quatloos on the insurgent by Dunbal · · Score: 2

      I believe it was called "international jewry".

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    4. Re:300 quatloos on the insurgent by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Hmmm Dominique Strauss-Khan is Jewish. The acting replacement, John Lipsky is Jewish. So that makes you theory look good.

      But then before him there look to be 4 IMF presidents who weren't Jewish.

      But then the 5 before that (All the way back to the founding of the IMF) were Jewish.

      Given it's an international organisation, and Jews are a small minority of the population, I'd say you have a point.

    5. Re:300 quatloos on the insurgent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      500 quatloos says the lulzsec weren't involved but wished they were! Another 1000 quatloos says that CXO's who have been warned about security and those worries fell on a deaf ear will not pay attention to their own network now based on this attack, and will only when their own system is pwned will they give the traditional reply: "WHAT?"

  6. Suits them good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    IMF is the "Henry" for other nations. Take Greece for example: IMF is lending money to Greece, even though the country wont be able to pay back. Eventually, IMF has managed to infiltrate the country, without the use of weapons, and now they affect Greece's international and also national policies, laws were changed in favour of the Man, situation gets worse everyday.

    What i am trying to say is that IMF has only done harm to humanity, and they will always be a justified target.

    1. Re:Suits them good by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      But think of the banks and their shareholders. In the 1960-80's all that lovely cash was just flowing to provide basic services and jobs of life.
      Now you have for profit - but still not natural monopolies in 100% private hands.
      When the IMF is done with Greece, a few more people will be set for generations of wealth for cents on the $.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  7. *Foreign* government??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    > Bloomberg quoted an unnamed security expert as saying the hackers were connected to a foreign government
    So this "unnamed security expert" sees the IMF as a (world?) government or as part of some (the american?) government.
    Or what does the word "foreign" mean here?

  8. I Love Bloomberg sometimes... by JinjaontheNile · · Score: 1

    In the middle of the Bloomberg article is the statement:
    A SecurID device is shaped like a key fob or a computer-memory stick and generates random-number passwords used to gain access to a computer network

    Continuously changing passwords != Random

    1. Re:I Love Bloomberg sometimes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Continuously changing passwords != Random

      Changing passwords at discrete intervals != Continuously changing passwords.

    2. Re:I Love Bloomberg sometimes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forgivable mistake. Randomness is a difficult concept. Most numbers that "we" call random every day aren't random either, just pseudo-random, like these OTPs.

  9. foreign by anonieuweling · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How can the hackers be foreign if we're the *international* monetary fund?

    1. Re:foreign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Exactly my point. But it seems that many people see the IMF as part of the american government. See for example this previous comment:
      > Nonsense, if the Chinese did it, that would have been an act of war. Don't you remember that fancy speech?
      Looks like the propaganda is wearing thin and people are starting to see the IMF as what it really is.

    2. Re:foreign by azalin · · Score: 1

      Well, maybe in the next "update" the FBI agents will carry calculators instead of walkie-talkies instead of guns. Who knows.
      Good news is ET will have his phone call either way

    3. Re:foreign by TheLink · · Score: 3, Informative

      Many in the world view the IMF as the European arm[1] of the Western Powers. During the 1997 Asian financial crisis the IMF recommended actions (e.g. allow important/strategic local banks to fail or to be bought up by foreign companies) that the US and other western countries would not take in their own crisis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Asian_financial_crisis#IMF_Role

      Those actions arguably weakened the countries more than they would have otherwise. One can compare those countries with Malaysia (which declined the IMF's "help" and "advice"). Some later spun the results as Malaysia not recovering as much but if the country doesn't crash as low naturally it doesn't rise back as much ;).

      [1] With the World Bank being the US arm...

      --
    4. Re:foreign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's probably best read as 'tied to a particular government'-- foreign government being a quasi-proper-noun, especially when it's used in this tense ;] You have to remember that often the exact data that is classified or will get a person in specific trouble is the 'who', to a point of having to refer to pictures of obvious $language text as 'foreign text' instead of the proper language name while reporting. I don't really get it either, but there's some sort of twisted logic to it, it's not just crazy talk, or at least not always.

      Although your question was quite astute and gave me a giggle.

    5. Re:foreign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >How can the hackers be foreign if we're the *international* monetary fund?

      Extraterrestrial hackers.

    6. Re:foreign by am+2k · · Score: 1

      How can the hackers be foreign if we're the *international* monetary fund?

      Aliens?

    7. Re:foreign by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      Aliens

    8. Re:foreign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously, you don't know this answer? This should be taught by about 3rd grade in public schools.

    9. Re:foreign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is easy given that the IMF is a US-designed means of implementing US financial policy (i.e. US boss, Row slave)

    10. Re:foreign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FUD; the greeks are now complaining because the IMF is proposing the same measures again.

      Keep in mind that you're already in big problems if you need to call in the IMF; the fact that Malaysia came out better is perfectly well explained by the null hypothesis that they were more sound economically to start with, didn't need to call in the IMF, and remained better off. Take Europe 2011 as an example again; Germany is rapidly recovering while Greece is still going downhill. Nothing to do with the IMF, it's the fundamentals.

  10. Good post by improfane · · Score: 1

    Interesting and creepy at the same time.

    I like the aura of mystery your create and the menacingness. Yet at the same time you sound like a hero, almost an anti-hero, shrouded in justice and maybe a troubled past.

    I can see a movie now.

    --
    Slashdot needs Geekcode | Can anyone recommend any good SCIFI? My tastes: Foundation, Startide Rising, CITY, Ringworld,
    1. Re:Good post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're undecided, I can recommend "V for Vendetta" or "Idiocracy"

  11. Such exciting times we live in these days. by lexsird · · Score: 1

    Isn't it great when real life starts playing like a cheesy B movie? We just need a real super villain to rise up out of this and it will be /popcorn time.

    Speaking of the IMF scandals, what happened to the deposed chief of it that got sacked with a sex scandal in NY? What has became of that? My money from the start was it was a set up and that after he was burned out of the position, his case will vanish in legal smoke, everyone will blame lawyers and liberals or something and he will be off and running back to France. Everyone wins, except him and socialism. Did I miss something?

    So who are these new players in the game? Old players just firing a shot off the IMF's bow with this new fangled warfare of cyberwarfare? Here's a question, who's to gain from all of this? Bloomberg? American politics are everything these days to watch. Bloomberg is a Republican, and the hawkish right might be making some preludes to some war. Or is it the usual suspects the Chinese and their shenanigans?

    Where is Bond? Shouldn't he be in some lurid scene getting a phone call to get on the job?

    This has to be the geek/mercenary wet dream for job opportunities. Perhaps espionage should become part of a good geeks resume'? Put down the bag of Cheetos, pick up some weights, walk for the beer instead of drive. We might be in for a long run at this, so might as well get with the program now.

    --
    Take the Red Pill.
    1. Re:Such exciting times we live in these days. by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      So who are these new players in the game? Old players just firing a shot off the IMF's bow with this new fangled warfare of cyberwarfare? Here's a question, who's to gain from all of this?

      The IMF is a privately owned bank. It's been set up by the oldest players there is, Rothschilds. They are American Royalty and no one really knows what their worth is. Immense just isn't immense enough, there is plenty of documentation online though it's unlikely any of us breeders will know their intent. Probably to wrestle more power from the population and control us more.

      This has to be the geek/mercenary wet dream for job opportunities. Perhaps espionage should become part of a good geeks resume'? Put down the bag of Cheetos, pick up some weights, walk for the beer instead of drive. We might be in for a long run at this, so might as well get with the program now.

      It might also be a death sentence, at least for a career. These players have the most comprehensive intelligence network that is centuries old. They are very smart, I'd be surprised if this wasn't part of some sort of plan they have whose motivation will always be concealed and misdirected.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    2. Re:Such exciting times we live in these days. by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Speaking of the IMF scandals, what happened to the deposed chief of it that got sacked with a sex scandal in NY? What has became of that?

      He's under house arrest in New York. With a $1m bail. Which is itself appalling - anyone who wasn't part of the rich and powerful set would be kept in prison awaiting trial.

  12. Credit Cards by jamesl · · Score: 2

    Maybe the politicians will have to stop using their (our) national "credit cards" for a while. A few decades would be nice.

    1. Re:Credit Cards by hitmark · · Score: 1

      Hope you have stockpiled ammo and MREs...

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
  13. Pentagon - false flag operation by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

    The purpose is to provide sufficient excuse to continue military spending. You may recall the USA hit it's debt limit and is about to default. This will persuade the dissenting politicians that they should vote for an increase in the limit.

    --
    Deleted
  14. Nevermind by martin-boundary · · Score: 3, Funny

    Nevermind, it turns out it was just Goldman Sachs trying to colocate their servers with the IMF computers...

  15. America = world terrorist by Colin+Smith · · Score: 2, Informative

    And Americans = terrorist supporters.

    e.g.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NUDWQ0U7N8

    How many countries has the USA invaded recently? Whether you are better or worse than someone else is irrelevant. This is what you are.

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:America = world terrorist by jhoegl · · Score: 1, Insightful

      First of all, if its on youtube it must be the truth.
      Secondly "clips" taken out of context does not equal truth
      Third, it is possible this kind of thing happens, just like when terrorists use human shields to protect themselves, planting evidence to make it look like a civilian, and other such events.
      Fourth, you troll.

    2. Re:America = world terrorist by tick-tock-atona · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You have got to be fucking kidding me.

      So it was all the elites who were dancing in the streets last month when the US executed Osama Bin Laden? You guys just don't get it. Pulling that kind of crap is exactly why everyone else in the world detests US foreign policy.

      If you still can't see it, consider the arrest of Ratko Mladic the other day. Almost identical situation, except Mladic personally helped to execute at least twice as many people as died in the attack on the World Trade Centre, so you could say he is more evil than OBL. And he was arrested and taken to the ICC. He wasn't shot in the head and dumped in the ocean, because that is not how civilised societies deal with criminals.

      The way the US public cheers the fact that their government can and does execute anyone in the world with no due process, and is perfectly entitled to invade any country they don't like makes me feel physically ill.

    3. Re:America = world terrorist by Teun · · Score: 1

      Americans on the whole don't support Obama's illegal wars.

      The Shrub family would like to thank you for setting that issue straight!

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    4. Re:America = world terrorist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It may appear to an odd distinction, but bin Laden was a non-state actor. Mladic was a military leader in what would be recognized internationally as being a state. The line becomes blurred in cases where a state is effectively run by nutjobs like the Taliban or Hamas.

    5. Re:America = world terrorist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's an odd distinction. Where do you place Arkan on a "line" between Osama bin Laden and Ratko Mladic? Was he a state actor or a non-state actor? Those are just words. The deeds these three men have done were funded and supported by people in power, otherwise they wouldn't have achieved this much violence.

    6. Re:America = world terrorist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imagine you are a soldier, dropped in a war zone by your government. You are balancing the tightrope between applying too much violence, which will get you court-martialed, and not enough violence, which will get you killed.
      It is only natural for those soldiers to create their own third option. It is also very natural to share this critical life protection measure with your brothers in arms, as they would do with you.

      No conspiracy theory needed here, just common sense.

    7. Re:America = world terrorist by sourcerror · · Score: 1

      If bin Laden is a non-state actor, why invade Afghanistan?

    8. Re:America = world terrorist by Life2Short · · Score: 2

      While I support a reliance on the rule of law in theory, your example points out the exception. The breakup of Yugoslavia resulted in a war that dragged on for 10 years. Over 100,000 people died as a result, over a third of them innocent civilians. The European community, particularly Britain, France, and Germany, were incapable of halting an atrocity-filled war on their very doorstep. For all we know the war would still be going on today if the Americans hadn't stepped in and stopped it.

      While you understandably decry American cowboy diplomacy, let's face it: without the big Yankee stick you'd be getting your news from Pravda. If you honestly think that would be preferable to the world situation now, I will leave you to think longingly on what might have been.

      And as a parting shot with regard to Mladic, don't you ask yourself, "Why is this guy crawling out from under his rock now?" Let's not confuse political expediency with justice...

      It's a rotten and unjust world, let's hope we can make some improvements. But don't ever kid yourself that bureaucrats in Brussels will be able to do the job all by themselves.

    9. Re:America = world terrorist by ZOP · · Score: 1

      Americans on the whole don't support Obama's illegal wars. We know by now that getting involved in Mid-East countries results in a giant quagmire with nothing good as a result. So please don't think it's all the US who want this to happen, it's our government that been hijacked by a very small number of elites and Obama is just doing their bidding.

      Uhm well, reality check here. *BUSH* started this. Obama is being forced to continue it by congress, the military leaders, and corporate america. In case you haven't noticed, the president is barely more than a figurehead anymore due to congress.

    10. Re:America = world terrorist by dotancohen · · Score: 1

      And Americans = terrorist supporters.

      e.g.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NUDWQ0U7N8

      How many countries has the USA invaded recently? Whether you are better or worse than someone else is irrelevant. This is what you are.

      To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first, and, whatever you hit, call it the target.
              - Ashleigh Brilliant

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    11. Re:America = world terrorist by BasilBrush · · Score: 5, Insightful

      First of all, if its on youtube it must be the truth.

      6 vets, one now a professor of law. All named, so you can google them and find references in any number of news agencies. You can't just shrug it off as "it's on youtube".

      Third, it is possible this kind of thing happens, just like when terrorists use human shields to protect themselves, planting evidence to make it look like a civilian, and other such events.

      So if named vets are saying it happens, and you are admitting it may well happen, what's your point? And why are you calling the OP a troll? Because you don't want to hear stuff about the US army that makes you uncomfortable?

    12. Re:America = world terrorist by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      Bin Laden was a State Actor.

      It's just that - like David Headley - the states in question are the US and Israel, with proxy handlers in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

      "At a conference I was at this week, Daniel Ellsberg recounted a time in 1969 when he explained to Henry Kissinger what would happen after he was given the dozen or so clearances above Top Secret (the existence of which is also classified, of course). What happens first is you feel like a fool. You've published books that you now discover were filled with stuff that was wrong. You have believed you understood how things worked for your entire professional life, but you now find out you were completely wrong, that the real world is entirely different from what you have been told. The books you've written, the lectures you've given are based on a false understanding of the world.

      But this stage only lasts a few weeks. After you have been reading this material hitherto unavailable to you for a while, you begin to see everybody else as fools. Only with people with these top level clearances know the truth. People whom you previously regarded as experts become ignoramuses, doubly so because they don't realize that they actually know nothing.

      And so your conversations with them become telling them what you want them to think."

       

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    13. Re:America = world terrorist by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      our government that been hijacked by a very small number of elites and Obama is just doing their bidding.

      Elites and Obama? You're clearly a right winger and a Fox News viewer. Just because the other side won the last election you don't get to forget that it was Bush who started the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, with the full backing of Fox News and people like you.

      It's be great if Obama got out of there ASAP. But he didn't create the situation, he inherited it from Bush.

    14. Re:America = world terrorist by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. You ate the neo-lib propaganda about "humanitarian war" - hook, line and sinker.

      "Humanitarian war" was designed to get comfortable, right-thinking and educated people to support wars of aggression and domination. The Clinton's were used as the messengers in the states, to sell this as "progressive" policy in the "post-Cold War" era. If you need to look deeper into any "hints", try examining the "accidental" bombing of the PRC Embassy in Belgrade. "Whoops".

      GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD:

      There are NO "humanitarian" BOMBS. The people killed are like your Mother and Son - not "monsters" that need rough justice.

      'A humanitarian operation is not a militant operation, and to attach any political objective or connotation to it would undoubtedly impair its credibility for all concerned in a conflict situation, and consequently its acceptability and efficacy."
      -- Yves Sandoz, excerpt from 'Implementation of International Humanitarian Law: Challenges and New Approaches', Third International Security Forum, Zurich, October 1998.

      "Humanitarian action is designed not to resolve conflicts but to protect human dignity and save lives. To maintain its neutral and impartial character and, consequently, the trust of all the parties to the conflict, it must be clearly dissociated from political and military measures the international community may take in search for conflict resolution. Only by strictly respecting the specificity of each other's mandates can military and humanitarian actors work 'separately together'..."
      -- Jacques Forster, Vice President of the International Committee of the Red Cross, presented at the Ninth Annual Seminar on International Humanitarian Law, Geneva, 8-9 March 2000

      "Since the Nato airstrikes began on March 24 Serb officials say more than 2,000 civilians have been killed and more than 7,500 wounded. Nato has owned up to bombing raids and missile attacks that have killed 460 civilians, according to a tally by Agence France-Presse. By all accounts, the bombing was indiscriminate, killing farmers, suburbanites, city dwellers, factory workers, reporters, diplomats, people in cars, busses and trains, hospital patients, the elderly and children. Indeed, by our count, Nato bombing raids have killed more than 200 children. Hundreds more will almost certainly perish in the coming months, through environmental factors, such as poisoned water supplies and lack of electrical power to run vital hospital equipment. The following list of civilian casualties is far from comprehensive. We compiled it from daily reports by the Yugoslav Foreign Ministry and wire services, including Agence France Presse, Reuters and AP."
      -- Andrew Cockburn, Counterpunch: Who NATO KIlled

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    15. Re:America = world terrorist by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      The European community, particularly Britain, France, and Germany, were incapable of halting an atrocity-filled war on their very doorstep. For all we know the war would still be going on today if the Americans hadn't stepped in and stopped it

      Is that how the US news networks presented it to you? That's not what happened. There was no attempt by Britain, France, and Germany which failed, followed by the US cavalry saving the day at the end. In reality it was 15 countries of NATO (including the ones you mentioned) that acted together to push the war to a close.

    16. Re:America = world terrorist by i_ate_god · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure that killing him was not the intended goal. It sort of robbed the american people of a bit of justice, and robbed politicians of some much needed political capital. Sort of like the ending of Lost.

      --
      I'm god, but it's a bit of a drag really...
    17. Re:America = world terrorist by i_ate_god · · Score: 1

      Because the government refused to hand him over.

      Look, it's very simple: if someone hits you, you can either a: hug it out, b: cry and run away, c: hit back

      a and b is weak. c is strong, and sends a message. I was bullied in school until I grew a pair. A kid pushed me into a locker, just to be an asshole, so I turned around, grabbed his face, and I slammed him into the floor with his head. He was lucky he didn't get a concussion (so was I, people were ready to call the police). But I never got bullied again after that.

      Unfortunately for the rest of the world, there was no cohesion in NATO and the whole hitting back thing didn't exactly work out. Afghanistan may be better off now (despite everything that is still bad about the country), but this is no victory. It exposed cracks in alliances, an unwillingness to fight back, and an inability, despite vastly superior force, to be able to beat the enemy. We may of killed Osama bin Laden, but it took 10 years for the WESTERN WORLD to do so.

      --
      I'm god, but it's a bit of a drag really...
    18. Re:America = world terrorist by Life2Short · · Score: 1

      No attempt by Britain, France, and Germany that failed? I guess you've never heard of the Brijuni Agreement, the Carrington-Cutileiro plan, the Vance-Owen plan, the Owen-Stoltenberg plan, or the Contact Group plan. All primarily European efforts at peace that failed miserably. How did they differ from the Dayton Accords? That's right, the big stick. Because while it's all well and good to say, "You kids stop that fighting!" in the end somebody has to actually go in and separate the parties and be able to threaten real consequences if they go back to fighting. Face it, in ten years the Europeans couldn't muster the political will to get it done.

      As U.S. Defense Secretary Gates pointed out this last week, NATO without the U.S. is less than a paper tiger. Their reach has once again exceeded their grasp in Libya, again on Europe's doorstep. Britain and France started out talking tough, but now Norway says they have to be home by August, so good luck to anyone else who wants to keep on playing.

      I don't have a problem with countries prioritizing their interests, I just think it's disingenuous to pretend that good things happen when magic wands get waved in Brussels.

    19. Re:America = world terrorist by Life2Short · · Score: 1

      Get this through your head: When you stick your head in the sand, there's still a lot of you exposed. It's your kind of thinking that let the war go on 10 years with no end in sight.

      Over 30,000 civilians were already dead when American bombing brought the war to an end. Why aren't you weeping for them? Or better still be thankful for the civilian casualties that were avoided when the Americans brought the war to an end.

      Better to let the war rage on and keep wringing your hands from the sidelines?

    20. Re:America = world terrorist by Demonoid-Penguin · · Score: 1

      You have got to be fucking kidding me. So it was all the elites who were dancing in the streets last month when the US executed Osama Bin Laden? You guys just don't get it. Pulling that kind of crap is exactly why everyone else in the world detests US foreign policy. If you still can't see it, consider the arrest of Ratko Mladic the other day. Almost identical situation, except Mladic personally helped to execute at least twice as many people as died in the attack on the World Trade Centre, so you could say he is more evil than OBL. And he was arrested and taken to the ICC. He wasn't shot in the head and dumped in the ocean, because that is not how civilised societies deal with criminals.

      The way the US public cheers the fact that their government can and does execute anyone in the world with no due process, and is perfectly entitled to invade any country they don't like makes me feel physically ill.

      "I'm so sick of arming the world, then sending troops over to destroy the fucking arms, you know what I mean? We keep arming these little countries, then we go and blow the shit out of them. We're like the bullies of the world, y'know. We're like Jack Palance in the movie Shane, throwing the pistol at the sheepherder's feet.

      "Pick it up."

      "I don't wanna pick it up, Mister, you'll shoot me."

      "Pick up the gun."

      "Mister, I don't want no trouble. I just came downtown here to get some hard rock candy for my kids, some gingham for my wife. I don't even know what gingham is, but she goes through about ten rolls a week of that stuff. I ain't looking for no trouble, Mister."

      "Pick up the gun."

      (He picks it up. Three shots ring out.)

      "You all saw him - he had a gun."

      ~ Bill Hicks

    21. Re:America = world terrorist by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      It's an odd distinction. Where do you place Arkan on a "line" between Osama bin Laden and Ratko Mladic? Was he a state actor or a non-state actor? Those are just words. The deeds these three men have done were funded and supported by people in power, otherwise they wouldn't have achieved this much violence.

      They're not just words. State officials everywhere have mutual agreements that state officials should be treated with respect, even when totally evil. Since they're state officials, they can enforce it. That's why Osama got a bullet while Saddam got a trial in Iraq. It's why the best movie villains are diplomats or heads of state; they're part of a club of world leaders that protect each other, at least superficially.

    22. Re:America = world terrorist by jhoegl · · Score: 1

      Nope, because at the end he says this is what we are.

    23. Re:America = world terrorist by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      Bush started Yemen? Congress started Libya?

    24. Re:America = world terrorist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because the government refused to hand him over.

      Afghanistan did not refuse to hand over Bin Laden; they put conditions on handing him over. The main one being that he be handed over to a neutral country so that he would face an international trial.

      Given the previous and subsequent behaviour of the United States, that doesn’t seem to be an unreasonable demand.

    25. Re:America = world terrorist by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      You again, mistake effect for cause - and demonstrate that state propaganda has displaced investigation and observation as the basis from which you derive your exalted opinions.

      The entire cause of the Balkan conflicts of the 1990's was engineered by external political and financial entities: "The West" as a part of the program to re-orient the profitable engines of conflict, after the Cold War.

      First, several NATO states supported nationalist secessionist movements within Yugoslavia, especially Croatian separatism. A war in Croatia followed - incidentally diverting attention from the successful Slovenian secession. The war spread to Bosnia, and the NATO powers encouraged atrocities, to justify NATO intervention there. A political coalition for an anti-Serbian intervention was formed in the NATO states, and an occupation force was stationed in Bosnia: first IFOR, then SFOR. Bosnia became a de facto protectorate. Nevertheless Serbia itself was not targeted at that time , and the Republika Srpska (Bosnia Serbs) got half of Bosnia. In the subsequent Kosovo war, Serbia was attacked: the regime collapsed under internal and external pressure. And what was the purpose of this all? The World Bank later explained:

      "...greater emphasis must be placed on establishing a viable institutional structure for effective and countrywide governance, as outlined in the Dayton Agreement, and on undertaking the key structural reforms for transforming the old socialist economic structure into a new, market-based economy."
      (World Bank 1997, p. xii)

      In historical perspective, that is the moral crusade which underlies the whole episode: the crusade of the liberal market-democracies, to remake the world in their own image.

      http://web.inter.nl.net/users/Paul.Treanor/bosnia.html

      Why? Yugoslavia was under Tito, a relatively successful non-aligned state, which had a good standard of living and was neither beholden to massive Western capital interests for its continuing future success, nor dependent on Soviet military subsidization.

      After the Soviet stalemate faded, it could not be allowed to continue. Yugoslavia was like the small but successful corner-shop, which "owed" back-rent to the protection racket.

      Lost in the barrage of images and self-serving analyses are the economic and social causes of the conflict. The deep-seated economic crisis which preceded the civil war had long been forgotten. The strategic interests of Germany and the US in laying the groundwork for the disintegration of Yugoslavia go unmentioned, as does the role of external creditors and international financial institutions. In the eyes of the global media, Western powers bear no responsibility for the impoverishment and destruction of a nation of 24 million people.

      But through their domination of the global financial system, the Western powers, in pursuit of national and collective strategic interests, helped bring the Yugoslav economy to its knees and stirred its simmering ethnic and social conflicts. Now it is the turn of Yugoslavia's war-ravaged successor states to feel the tender mercies of the international financial community.

      As the world focused on troop movements and cease-fires, the international financial institutions were busily collecting former Yugoslavia's external debt from its remnant states, while transforming the Balkans into a safe-haven for free enterprise. With a Bosnian peace settlement holding under NATO guns, the West had in late 1995 unveiled a "reconstruction" program that stripped that brutalized country of sovereignty to a degree not seen in Europe since the end of World War II. It consisted largely of making Bosnia a divided territory under NATO military occupation and Western administration.

      http://www.glo

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    26. Re:America = world terrorist by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      It is, unless you object to US war-making and the behaviour of the US military.

    27. Re:America = world terrorist by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      a and b is weak. c is strong, and sends a message.

      Yeah, but it depends on whom you hit back. If you hit back the guy who hit you, then it sends a good message. If you hit a different guy that just demands a fair trial (Afghanistan), or was completely uninvolved in the whole affair (Iraq), you rightly get labeled a douchebag.

    28. Re:America = world terrorist by mbkennel · · Score: 1

      If you still can't see it, consider the arrest of Ratko Mladic the other day. Almost identical situation, except Mladic personally helped to execute at least twice as many people as died in the attack on the World Trade Centre, so you could say he is more evil than OBL. And he was arrested and taken to the ICC. He wasn't shot in the head and dumped in the ocean, because that is not how civilised societies deal with criminals.

      If Osama Bin Laden had been living in West Point, New York, then yes, he would have been peaceably arrested and sent to court.

      Do you think there is something very different between the cases? I do.

    29. Re:America = world terrorist by tick-tock-atona · · Score: 1

      Because while it's all well and good to say, "You kids stop that fighting!" in the end somebody has to actually go in and separate the parties and be able to threaten real consequences if they go back to fighting.

      Yes, that's why police carry weapons. But they're still not allowed to just execute anyone they accuse of a crime. Punishment is for the courts, not the police. Current US foreign policy is to act as world government, police, judge, jury and executioner.

    30. Re:America = world terrorist by mutherhacker · · Score: 1

      Nobody can drop you in a war zone. You guys volunteer for it. And from what I hear it's just a bunch of kids trying to pay of their student loan. Another failure of the US system. "You want to work for corporate America? Fine, but first you need an education. Oh you can't afford it? No problem Wall street will give you a loan!! What, you can't pay off your loan? No problem, join the military and we'll sort it for you" So the way I see it is you have to join the military and kill people in order to get a job.

  16. Dominique Strauss-Kahn != Cristiano Ronaldo by G3ckoG33k · · Score: 1

    Dominique Strauss-Kahn != Cristiano Ronaldo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIzuY5V_YUI

    THIS is how to charm hotel maids :)

    1. Re:Dominique Strauss-Kahn != Cristiano Ronaldo by Raven_Stark · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the blue balls

      --
      http://www.marxist.com/
  17. hacked by!!! by NSN+A392-99-964-5927 · · Score: 1

    The 419 Nigerian scam who have been working for the IMF.

    --
    All cows eat grass!
  18. IMF actions have caused deaths by Cato · · Score: 5, Informative

    One example is that the IMF stopped Malawi from stockpiling grain, and many people died of starvation as a result:

    "... when in 2001 the IMF found out the Malawian government had built up large stockpiles of grain in case there was a crop failure, they ordered them to sell it off to private companies at once. They told Malawi to get their priorities straight by using the proceeds to pay off a loan from a large bank the IMF had told them to take out in the first place, at a 56 per cent annual rate of interest. The Malawian president protested and said this was dangerous. But he had little choice. The grain was sold. The banks were paid.

    The next year, the crops failed. The Malawian government had almost nothing to hand out. The starving population was reduced to eating the bark off the trees, and any rats they could capture. The BBC described it as Malawiâ(TM)s âoeworst ever famine.â There had been a much worse crop failure in 1991-2, but there was no famine because then the government had grain stocks to distribute. So at least a thousand innocent people starved to death.

    Extracted from http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-its-not-just-dominique-strausskahn-the-imf-itself-should-be-on-trial-2292270.html

    Other examples: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Monetary_Fund#Impact_on_access_to_food

    1. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's not as clear cut as you claim. That is especially true given that your source is an opinion piece in the Independent.

      See this news article from the BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2014396.stm

    2. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by JamesP · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Incompetent governments blaming it on someone else. Oldest trick in the book.

      And btw, defaulting is not an option. The ONLY reason the US dollar still stands is that the US NEVER defaulted.

      --
      how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
    3. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's pretty clear to me, after 1 years under IMF here in Greece, how they working.

      I guess that although they didn't ask to sell the grain straight out, most probably they asked them to make a list of all the public assets that can be sold and then put it in order off what can be sold faster. After all the clock is ticking and sooner or later the debts will start blowing up so they had to sell what they could fast or else no more financial support by the IMF (read no new loans).

      Of course the choice you will make has nothing to do with politics, it's an easy linear equation you have to solve given to you by the IMF and the banks.

    4. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by JamesP · · Score: 1

      Great post. I guess this makes sense.

      People complain about the IMF but they never question what led them needing the IMF in the first place.

      --
      how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
    5. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by rubycodez · · Score: 2

      We've essentially defaulted, just by the equivalent of someone in debt getting more credit cards to "pay" their bills, in a pile of self-referential paper pyramid scams with no basis in real wealth . To speak of "the full faith and credit of the United States" is such a farce, the U.S. is beyond bankrupt with liabilities far exceeding the ever-shrinking assets.

    6. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Potato, potato. is quantitative easing not defaulting by another (newspeak) name ? The only reason the US dollar still stands is because it is enforced with the military.

    7. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by FrootLoops · · Score: 1

      We've essentially defaulted

      I know what you're getting at, but the biggest effect of defaulting is losing the faith of those who might give you loans. Saying we've "essentially defaulted" when this is not the case is stretching the word "defaulted" pretty thin. The picture is a little nicer if you consider debt as a fraction of GDP, but it's still not rosy. What do you mean by "ever-shrinking" assets?

    8. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      People complain about the IMF but they never question what led them needing the IMF in the first place.

      That's kind of like saying "People complain about baliffs but they never question what led them needing the bailiffs in the first place."

      For sure the IMF, like bailiffs go in when a country has financial problems. But they are not there to serve the interests of the country with the financial problems. They actually make their financial problems worse. The IMF is there so that the rich countries can recoup cents on the dollar on their failed investments.

      Difference is that bailiffs don't usually kill people. The IMFs policies do.

    9. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're so full of shit it's hilarious. The debt could EASILY be paid off if we cut the fuck out of our military budget and raised taxes slightly. Unfortunately, the retarded republicans are set on destroying the US and refuse either action.

    10. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by hitmark · · Score: 1

      Loan 1 000 and the bank owns you. Loan 10 000 000 and you own the bank...

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    11. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by rubycodez · · Score: 2

      The Democrats had control and did nothing but continue the "retarded" Republican agenda. Obama might as well be named Bush the 3rd. Besides our insane military spending, there are other longer term obligations that would have to be curtailed too. But I agree with the core of your argument, we could easily pay off the debt if our lawmakers were rational. But instead, they are in the pockets of large corporations including the banking cartel, defense contractors, fossil fuels, etc. so this will not happen. Instead we will collapse economically.

    12. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The verbs for money transfer aren't the same for both directions. "loan" is when you have money to give to someone else. "borrow" is when you don't have money and ask someone else for it.

    13. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by rubycodez · · Score: 2

      Our total obligations are many time GDP, despite the usual old saw you are trying to invoke that only considers "national debt". The nations that are coming to power and that will soon surpass the U.S. in every way have already lost faith in the USA and have begun the move away from the U.S. dollar and U.S. debt holding. More and more countries will lose faith in the dollar and move from U.S. securities and use of the dollar. We are losing, via outsourcing and globalization, the ability to generate real wealth, to add value to real things. Instead our assets are increasingly of the paper kind (stocks, bonds, securities), intellectual property (for the making of real things made offshore), services (necessary as a fraction, but unsustainable if too large a portion). I'm giving a warning as a old fart, the good ship USA is tits up and taking on water, it is going down.

    14. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by FrootLoops · · Score: 1

      Do you have sources? As in, if I got the opinion of 10 "old farts" and they disagreed with yours, why would yours be right?

    15. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Do I understand you correctly? Defaulting on debts is not an option even when the citizens of your country starve en masse, and said defaulting would bring a huge immediate relief, as in the case being reviewed here?

      Do you work for IMF, by chance?

    16. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by rmstar · · Score: 1

      Potato, potato. is quantitative easing not defaulting by another (newspeak) name ?

      No. Default is when the government is unable to service its debt and obtain new one. Interestingly, without QE there would be terrible deflation, which would push the US closer to default.

      As things stand now, the US can borrow money with very low interest rates, and is thus very far from default.

      Here you find rates:
      http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-govtbonds.html?mod=topnav_2_3000

    17. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They obviously wanted to develop their own procedures to reduce a population of a nation by half. The IMF is still a bit jealous of the Brits doing Irish in the middle of the 19th century in that way.

    18. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by Cato · · Score: 1

      How is it incompetent for the Malawi government to stockpile food against famine? The incompetence or willful negligence was on the part of the IMF, stopping the government from taking reasonable steps to prevent its people from starving to death.

    19. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by JamesP · · Score: 1

      Do I understand you correctly? Defaulting on debts is not an option even when the citizens of your country starve en masse, and said defaulting would bring a huge immediate relief, as in the case being reviewed here?

      If you prefer your country to starve even more and for a longer period of time, go ahead and default.

      Immediate relieve may be immediate, but it's for a very short period of time.

      Do you work for IMF, by chance?

      No, but I know math, and I know what happens when a country defaults, since I live in one.

      --
      how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
    20. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      If you prefer your country to starve even more and for a longer period of time, go ahead and default.

      History shows that the single best thing that a country can do for its economy is to say "fuck you" to IMF and their financial advisers, as they have a proven track record of running economies into the ground. Sometimes, it takes a default to throw off those shackles. I'm not aware of countries being worse after a default and with IMF kicked out compared to those which didn't default and still pay the IMF racket (by following their guidelines).

      I know what happens when a country defaults, since I live in one.

      I used to live in a country which defaulted as well. It's doing much better since then, thank you very much.

    21. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by JamesP · · Score: 1

      History shows that the single best thing that a country can do for its economy is to say "fuck you" to IMF and their financial advisers, as they have a proven track record of running economies into the ground.

      The best thing is to not need the IMF.
      It's called because the country already messed up its economy. IMF is not good, it's like chemotherapy. But it's better than dying of cancer.

      Sometimes, it takes a default to throw off those shackles. I'm not aware of countries being worse after a default and with IMF kicked out compared to those which didn't default and still pay the IMF racket (by following their guidelines).

      I know what happens when a country defaults, since I live in one.

      I used to live in a country which defaulted as well. It's doing much better since then, thank you very much.

      Who will invest in a country that defaulted?

      --
      how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
    22. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The best thing is to not need the IMF.
      It's called because the country already messed up its economy. IMF is not good, it's like chemotherapy. But it's better than dying of cancer.

      Is it really better if, in a few years, you're worse off than you were when you asked for help?

      Who will invest in a country that defaulted?

      Anyone who thinks that by doing that now, they won't have to do it later anymore.

    23. Re:IMF actions have caused deaths by JamesP · · Score: 1

      How is it incompetent for the Malawi government to stockpile food against famine? The incompetence or willful negligence was on the part of the IMF, stopping the government from taking reasonable steps to prevent its people from starving to death.

      Stocking food has nothing to do with incompetence. That's not the issue, the incompetence is what caused the stocks to be sold.

      Rest assured that government officials have in their pockets several times the amount of money they sold the stock for.
      And that they sold the stock first because it would hurt less 'their bottom line'. (Instead of cutting on government perks)

      See other comments for what probably happened.

      --
      how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
  19. As long as we are speculating wildly... by erroneus · · Score: 1

    I think it was Bin Laden. He realized his body was not going to last much longer, so he had it copied onto those thousands of USB drives and hidden in various files using steganography techniques. Then, when the US forces analysed them, the bits of Bin Laden's consciousness became assembled in the US government's computer networks. From there, it was trivial for Bin Laden's digital ghost to get into the IMF.

    See how simple that was?

    1. Re:As long as we are speculating wildly... by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      you forgot about his porn, the hundreds of digitized minxes of arabsexxx.com will reassemble and writhe their way into the nodes of cyberspace, becoming the opiate of the masses

  20. Re:If we allow this situation to worsen by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    Oh my, you just scared me into realizing something.

    We're going to have to all go back and study the Darmok episode of Trek TNG. Why? Because all we'll be able to get out is catalog numbers of Amazon's database containing the message we want to send.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  21. Define "foreign"? by Shoten · · Score: 2

    This is the IMF. What's a foreign government, in that context...Martians?

    --

    For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
  22. Re:just a lot of talking by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    It's really quite hypnotic too.

    Dark Marteria with the +1 Insightful again.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  23. Why not a company? by johanw · · Score: 2

    Why would a large organization always mean a country? Why not a large bank that wants to know in advance how much risk is really involved in lending money to Greece? Goldman-Sachs has been rumbeling in that area more than enough already.

    1. Re:Why not a company? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would a large organization always mean a country? Why not a large bank that wants to know in advance how much risk is really involved in lending money to Greece? Goldman-Sachs has been rumbeling in that area more than enough already.

      Large banks already know that it is unsafe and absolutely sure that Greece will be unable to pay off its debt. This time though, the bankers are lending Greece to pay off old debt (IMF reports about first quarter confirm that - ~95% of the IMF fund was used to pay off Greek debt) and, in parallel, IMF is securing the new debt, by signing "Henry-like" terms with the Greek Government; i.e. the banks are now enabled to actually confiscate Greek assets in the case of a default (old debt terms did not invalidate National Sovereignty, while the new terms do). And Goldman-Sachs is one of the key players in this game (remember they were the ones auditing Greece's economy and "fixing" numbers for the old Greek government during 2004-2008, when the Greek debt sky-rocketed).

      On the other hand, a country could really use by this kind of espionage, if it would provide any kind of insight on the banker's intentions about the country. My guess is that IMF was right on the source of the attack; IMF is/has been an enemy to many poor countries, it is a natural consequence for the countries to fight back (in vain).

  24. Chinese, for sure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They're not THAT powerful. Why are we so afraid of naming and shaming them?

  25. the missing option by slick7 · · Score: 1

    The banksters themselves could be the cause and the reason. Only the banksters have reason to lose money that cannot be traced. By blaming some unknown "enemy", these banksters use the classic maneuver of mis-direction. No one would expect a den of thieves, liars and charlatans to steal from themselves and then claim not knowing their system that has been in place for hundreds of years.

    --
    The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
  26. Anyone see Zeitgeist? If not, do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It can tell you ALL ABOUT the "IMF", & if that's NOT ENOUGH? Here's a couple documentaries you ought to be made aware of:

    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-money-masters/

    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/america-bankrupt-banks-inside-meltdown/

    They're BOTH in regards to "central banking schemes" over history!

    (Yes, including the US "FED", not federal @ all, merely a consortium of banks creating an inescapable inflation via FIAT currency games & inescapable interest).

    Why do you folks think Andrew Jackson (who wrote on his gravestone "I KILLED THE BANK") got rid of central banks? They were causing financial hassles & spiralling inflation!

    (Once it was gone, things were set right again, only to have Woodrow Wilson reinstate them, to his own dismay & on his deathbed the man knew he made a mistake!)

    Also: The US "FED"? It was signed in illegally too, when all the other members of the senate/house (congress) were on vacation too

    It was NEVER LEGALLY RATIFIED as law by the majority act of Congress it needed!

    This whole "central banking scheme"? Nothing but trouble & inflation... beware of it.

    APK

    P.S.=> KNOW YOUR HISTORY, because believ it or not? It's your friend!

    I used to "blow it off" until I realized that old adage is true that if you don't know history you're bound to repeat it... Why'd I used to "blow it off"?

    Well, I used to blow it off, because we constantly repeat it is why - I figured, "why bother? we'll just end up doing the same stupid shit again a generation or two later, anyhow!"

    HOWEVER: NOW I KNOW WHY WE REPEAT IT: The "powers that be" (big money") use it again & again over the centuries to pull the same tricks (on different generations that forget about their games!).

    They don't *think* just 1-10 yrs. ahead, they think ahead 50-100 yrs. (to keep them & theirs in control, for the next generation of their clique)

    ... apk

  27. IMF RSA Sony - are we really learning anything? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IMF, RSA, Sony - Ok, they got hacked & lost customer information.

    So, what kind of computer software are all these companies using to front-end their networks? Have they heard of firewalls? Are they Windows-only IT infrastructures? Are their IT professionals really professional or typical Dilbertian corporate politicians?

    All the articles I see on the Internet news sources don't bother to tell this part of the story.

    Inquiring minds want to know...

  28. Another "abres los ojos" you should read by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    William Greider's "The SECRETS OF THE TEMPLE"...

    (A great book, & it "opened my eyes" to a lot of how the central banking system operates, and why it's messing us up, HUGELY!)

    Yes, it's "dry as dust" IN THE BEGINNINGS, because it outlines things you need to know first, like a textbook in academia, but... once it gets "rolling"? You eat it up like candy, because it enlightens you to the games being played on ALL of us, by central bank schemes!

    APK

    P.S.=> IF you get the chance? DO READ IT PEOPLE, as it will "abres los ojos", it certainly did mine!

    ...apk

  29. drinkypoo Y R U running from a simple question? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hmmm, troll? See here http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2225174&cid=36390518 ? Perhaps because it shows you are nothing but a TROLL, & a "ne'er-do-well" that claims he has a "massive ego", but nothing to show for it (delusions of GRANDEUR there, boy?)??

    You know, I tried to "extend the olive branch" to you here http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2230314&cid=36414652 , but to no avail... now, you sow the wind? Here comes the whirlwind... from now on, & that's showing you are a troll by your own evasions of the 1st URL above & a simple question there...

    1. Re:drinkypoo Y R U running from a simple question? by Jackmn · · Score: 1

      Hmmm, troll? See here http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2225174&cid=36390518 ? Perhaps because it shows you are nothing but a TROLL, & a "ne'er-do-well" that claims he has a "massive ego", but nothing to show for it (delusions of GRANDEUR there, boy?)?? You know, I tried to "extend the olive branch" to you here http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2230314&cid=36414652 , but to no avail... now, you sow the wind? Here comes the whirlwind... from now on, & that's showing you are a troll by your own evasions of the 1st URL above & a simple question there...

      You do realize that you are batshit insane, right?

  30. Cyber attack huh... by h4x0t · · Score: 0

    Lets see them blame this one on Anonymous.

  31. IMF needs to call Ethan Hunt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The IMF needs to have their top agent Ethan Hunt to knock those cyber crooks heads around.

  32. No no no, hear the truth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What the fuck are you talking about? "Default" as a technicality? Printing like mad doesn't count? Intentional massive deflation is the same as defaulting in anything but name. The real value of the dollar is worth shit and the only reason it's still around as a major international currency is corruption and crime, think of the international bailouts as bribes to keep the worst hit nations quiet about how badly the US government fucked up the entire world's monetary systems through their sub-mortage crisis affecting all major banks and creating a liquidation and capital crisis.

    The bailouts aren't all about "helping" companies, the biggest benefit to the US gov may well be in spreading their massive deflation as widely as possible to attempt to even things out as well as helping make it far less obvious to ordinary people and anyone not high enough up in the international food-chain.

    Get your head out of the clouds the US is dying or already nearly dead both politically and economically and it won't be nice, we're already seeing some very desperate measures unlikely to make things significantly better.

    Considering how many people loathe the US both on the left and the right I doubt anyone will be willing to actually help you when the shit truly hits the fan, it just won't be politically feasible and by that time you'll be busy killing each other or enslaving each other. Maybe that's deserved (I don't think so: the kids of the US of A aren't to blame for their parents sins) but even so it's incredibly sad.

    You had it all and you burned it down yourselves while dancing nude around your kitsch golden calf.

  33. Here it go again by Dainsanefh · · Score: 1

    U.S. has the capability to sustain itself without reliance of foreign goods. It is just the stupid laws that restrict them.

    If we lower the standard of living (which we don't deserve it anyway) to the level of Vietnam and Cambodia then we will have lots of jobs.

    All it have to do is just print money and immediately pay off all bonds and debt. Send the money necessary to the state and local government so they can do the same. Forget about credit rating We don't need credit. We don't buy foreign goods so we don't worry about the exchange rate of US dollar.

    The only people that worry about flunking worth of the U.S. dollar are the stiff white trash that travels to Europe for leisure reasons. We "minorities" here doesn't care because we don't need to get Pounds/Euros. I have no problem going $10 = 1 Euro if it means the national debt is paid off with printed money.

    As for the IMF, we all know it is part of the Jew World Order trying to plunder the the third world so to become their slaves, according to the Talmud. In fact, they are finally fed up with the pace of the enslavement and now attempting to put a Israeli in charge of IMF since the previous guy got set up and politically persecuted in New York.

    Lucky we have countries such as China, loved by many of the 3rd world nations, and it is our only hope to defeat the old world lead by the white man and the Jews which brings us slavery, disease and war.

    --
    Twitter: @dainsanefh
  34. International Monetary Drain by isochroma · · Score: 0

    It's about time the International Monetary Drain was hit. Time to take those vampire fuckers out - permanently. They leech the money out of countries and impose vicious SAPs on them. This toxic behaviour will soon end and so will that criminal institution which does nothing more than create debt slavery in order to redistribute wealth from the working and poor to the unworking rich.

  35. On your views on Jews, and self-reliant USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Their own talmud backs it up in fact:

    "As for the IMF, we all know it is part of the Jew World Order trying to plunder the the third world so to become their slaves, according to the Talmud" - by Dainsanefh (2009638) on Sunday June 12, @05:19PM (#36419810) Homepage

    http://www.waylanderskeep.com/2009/12/jewish-talmud-quotes/ [waylanderskeep.com]

    ****

    1. Sanhedrin 59a: "Murdering Goyim is like killing a wild animal."

    2. Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."

    3. Sanhedrin 59a: "A goy (Gentile) who pries into The Law (Talmud) is guilty of death."

    4. Libbre David 37: "To communicate anything to a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly."

    5. Libbre David 37: "If a Jew be called upon to explain any part of the rabbinic books, he ought to give only a false explanation. Who ever will violate this order shall be put to death."

    6. Yebhamoth 11b: "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age."

    7. Schabouth Hag. 6d: "Jews may swear falsely by use of subterfuge wording."

    8. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Do not save Goyim in danger of death."

    9. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Show no mercy to the Goyim."

    10. Choschen Hamm 388, 15: "If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of the earth."

    11. Choschen Hamm 266,1: "A Jew may keep anything he finds which belongs to the Akum (Gentile). For he who returns lost property (to Gentiles) sins against the Law by increasing the power of the transgressors of the Law. It is praiseworthy, however, to return lost property if it is done to honor the name of God, namely, if by so doing, Christians will praise the Jews and look upon them as honorable people."

    12. Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Dia 17: "A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them."

    13. Baba Necia 114, 6: "The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world are not human beings but beasts."

    14. Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D: "When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 slaves."

    15. Nidrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L: "Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night."

    16. Aboda Sarah 37a: "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated."

    17. Gad. Shas. 2:2: "A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl."

    18. Tosefta. Aboda Zara B, 5: "If a goy kills a goy or a Jew, he is responsible; but if a Jew kills a goy, he is NOT responsible."

    19. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 388: "It is permitted to kill a Jewish denunciator everywhere. It is permitted to kill him even before he denounces."

    20. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348: "All property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which, consequently, is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples."

    21. Tosefta, Abda Zara VIII, 5: "How to interpret the word 'robbery.' A goy is forbidden to steal, rob, or take women slaves, etc., from a goy or from a Jew. But a Jew is NOT forbidden to do all this to a goy."

    22. Seph. Jp., 92, 1: "God has given the Jews power over the possessions and blood of all nations."

    23. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 156: "When a Jew has a Gentile in his clutches, another Jew may go to the same Gentile, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that the Gentile shall be ruined. For the property of a Gentile, according to our law, belongs to no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it."

    24. Schulchan Aruch, Johre Deah, 122: "A Jew is forbidden to drink from a glass of wine which a Gentile has

  36. fuck the IMF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they've destroyed numerous countries economies

  37. drinkypoo can't answer a question himself? LOL! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject - just because drinkypoo is a cowardly little troll doesn't mean he needs his troll pals helping him does it? Apparently it does - Hilarious. Do you wipe his ass for him on the toilet as well?

    1. Re:drinkypoo can't answer a question himself? LOL! by Jackmn · · Score: 1

      See subject - just because drinkypoo is a cowardly little troll doesn't mean he needs his troll pals helping him does it? Apparently it does - Hilarious. Do you wipe his ass for him on the toilet as well?

      Schedule an appointment with a psychologist. I am not kidding - you are ill, and you need help.

  38. Re:Define "foreign"? non-IMF by ginbot462 · · Score: 1

    Poor people/countries (e.g. countries that don't own significant shares in IMF's banking system or ones that don't take their "advice"). Fuck em' and fuck their "let the free hand reign" bullshit. All the free market means is free money for those that already have it.

    --
    Atlas Shrugged : Thematic Story :: Battlefield Earth : Organized Religion
  39. US debt default by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Except that the US did default in 1933 when it revalued the dollar!

    The following numbers are not the exact ones, but have instead been chosen to make the example easier to follow, but they illustrate what happened. Prior to 1933 one US dollar was worth 1/20 of an ounce of gold. After 1933 one US dollar was worth 1/40 of an ounce of gold. Thus US dollars were now worth 1/2 what they used to be. US debt could previously be cashed in for either US dollars of gold. Now however you could only cash it in for the same number of US dollars. Thus, US debt was only worth half of what it was before (that is, the US did a partial default on it's debt, equivalent to half the value).

    The only reason it is not listed officially as a default is that the US supreme court ruled that since the debt was still worth the same number of dollars it did not legally count (obviously the US supreme court was not likely to be the most impartial judge of this). The fact that these dollars were only worth half what they were before was not considered irrelevant.

    Wikipedia lists the exact numbers where $20.67 per ounce before the 1933 Gold Reserve Act, and $35 per ounce after (actually it was free floating for a little while, but this is not important).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_dollar#The_Gold_Reserve_Act

  40. dont surprised by summerbrands · · Score: 1

    At last, the bully country is scared of somebody. The tides are turning. I for one welcome our new communist overlords. How much worse than the US reign can it be? http://www.summeringbrands.com/

    --
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