LulzSec Teams With Anonymous, In Operation AntiSec

Inflated sense of self-importance by MetalliQaZ · 2011-06-20 02:20 · Score: 3, Insightful

Dear Slashdot,
Don't feed the trolls.
Thanks,
Metalliqaz

--
"Here Lies Philip J. Fry, named for his uncle, to carry on his spirit"

Re:Inflated sense of self-importance by Anonymous Coward · 2011-06-20 02:53 · Score: 4, Interesting

Actually, given the horribly insecure things that banks do, this might not be such a bad thing. EX: when I refinanced my mortgage last, I found it was SOP to shuffle the paperwork around via plain old ass-hanging-out-for-all-to-see email.
And the password security questions can't be user-defined, and are things I know plenty of people can answer about me, and I could answer every option for many people I know.
Two different banks I know have flash installed on their employees computers.
Lulz and Anon won't have trouble hacking the banks... They'd have to put effort into not failing to hack them.
Re:Inflated sense of self-importance by Anonymous Coward · 2011-06-20 03:20 · Score: 5, Insightful

I work in a bank and I'll confirm this. There has been a big "security" push around here lately but it only consists of stupid shit like imposing the most ridiculous password policies for the 5 or so different incompatible systems in use plus a slew of sites and applications that don't use any of the centralized systems. The end result predictably being that everyone has taken to writing down their passwords. Banks are all about the semblance of security, not actual security.
Re:Inflated sense of self-importance by Opportunist · 2011-06-20 04:02 · Score: 2

True, true and true.
I once had to rely on phone banking, and trying to verify my identity, my phone partner asked me for a few recent transfers to read to him so he could verify that I'm me. This is something someone could easily gather from stealing or finding my bank card and printing a statement, all actions that take no kind of additional security information. Asking him what kind of security theater this is supposed to be, I was informed that this is a standard procedure and if I'm not happy with it, I should not use phone banking if I deem it insecure.
I didn't have the mental strength anymore to explain to him how me not using phone banking would NOT increase the security of the messed up process.
I cannot say too much about the inner workings of banks (NDAs are a PITA, and especially now that these will be exploited big time I certainly do not want to have my name attached to broadcasting a glaring security hole that even a blind, illiterate dimwit could see, lest I be liable for "informing" them... as if that's necessary!), but there is a whole lot of other security theater going on behind the scenes. A lot of half-assed, ill conceived and totally useless roadblocks (mostly hindering the people who actually have to work with the systems, but not at all being a problem for those who don't care if they trash the system in the process) are in place or are being put in place, but the underlying problem does not get addressed.
Well, we'll see how it pans out.

--
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Re:Inflated sense of self-importance by Anonymous Coward · 2011-06-20 04:03 · Score: 5, Insightful

Dear Slashdot,
Please continue to provide updates on one of the most important events in recent technological history.
These people are putting into motion a chain of events that will first, lead to massive draconian regulation of internet presence as well as personal internet usage and finally, start a revolution online which will create the most open and free global network the world has ever seen.
They're also exposing the complete failure of the "whitehat" information security industry as a whole. They are a joke, they are thieves, and they deserve to be humiliated forever for the scams they perpetrate.
We should be thanking Lulzsec and anyone else who agrees with what they do.
Re:Inflated sense of self-importance by ackthpt · 2011-06-20 04:04 · Score: 2

I work in a bank and I'll confirm this. There has been a big "security" push around here lately but it only consists of stupid shit like imposing the most ridiculous password policies for the 5 or so different incompatible systems in use plus a slew of sites and applications that don't use any of the centralized systems. The end result predictably being that everyone has taken to writing down their passwords. Banks are all about the semblance of security, not actual security.
Quite surprised by this, but I suppose I shouldn't be.
Back about 15 years ago the banks were extremely reluctant to have anything beyond modems as they needed to see that the budding internet was secure before they exposed anything to it.
Now, consider the way businesses have been working, slashing workerbees (including those who provided auditing and safety nets) to maximize payouts a the top, plus the willingness to take on preposterous investment and lending strategies, which eventually collapsed and you can see they're pretty careless, feckless even.

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A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Re:Inflated sense of self-importance by Hatta · 2011-06-20 04:57 · Score: 2

Banks are all about the semblance of security, not actual security.
Much like government itself.

--
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Re:Inflated sense of self-importance by mmcuh · 2011-06-20 05:43 · Score: 2

They usually don't need a reason.
Re:Inflated sense of self-importance by fyoder · 2011-06-20 07:13 · Score: 2

Maybe they should have a policy of easy to remember pass phrases -- lots of characters but no need to write them down. I was at a bank today where there was what appeared to be a new hire. She was having trouble with something, consulted her notes right there in front of me, points to a word and asks another worker, "is it this password?". I averted my eyes politely, but I should probably have stared pointedly at it and spoken it out loud a character at a time, just to make the point.

--
Loose lips lose spit.
Re:Inflated sense of self-importance by hairyfeet · 2011-06-20 07:29 · Score: 4, Insightful

Dear AC, this WOULD be one of the "most important events in recent technological history" if it wasn't being conducted by asshats that want credit for their actions.
If instead of waving their dicks around while wearing images of Trollface they would just quietly drop the info they gather into Wikileaks and a dozen other sources? Then the government wouldn't know if the leaks were internal or external, wouldn't know whether they have been infiltrated or not, and paranoia helps to undermine power by making it harder for their little cabals to communicate.
Instead what these guy Fawkes wearing dipshits will end up with is a nice new law where unless you are a developer (and if you say you are your line will be tapped) you will have to run an "approved OS to protect you from ID theft" which after all this high publicity will be quite easy to get the general populace to sign on to. This approved OS will be given software to "protect you" that will have a digital sig so that everywhere you go, anything you do, will be marked so as to be trivial to trace. Anyone who tries hooking up a machine without the sig will get a visit from guys in dark suits and their connection will be pulled seconds after the lack of the sig is detected.
If anyone thinks that having that old scrap of paper known as the constitution will keep those in power from crushing your rights like a bug haven't been paying attention to current events lately, and those in power were already looking for excuses to clamp down after seeing the Arab Spring events and how their old cronies who held power for decades are ending up run out on a rail. The fact that the current administration claims dropping bombs isn't hostile and that they have the right to Assassinate Americans on American soil should be pretty clear indicators that the constitution is being ignored.
By splattering their "Lulz" all over the Internet these dumbasses are playing right into the hands of those that want the Internet turned into cableTV. They COULD have been a major force of change, they COULD have brought to light many of the hidden evils these corrupt administrations all over the world are perpetrating on the peoples of the world. But by jumping up and down going "look at me, look!" all they will end up doing is having the ban hammer dropped on one of the last places of free expression left on the planet. So goodbye Internet, it was fun while it lasted but like most things online the trolls took a big shit all over you and ruined it for everyone.

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ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Re:Inflated sense of self-importance by The+Archon+V2.0 · 2011-06-20 09:24 · Score: 2

The end result predictably being that everyone has taken to writing down their passwords. Banks are all about the semblance of security, not actual security.
Sounds like any corporation. When I worked at HP it was the same. 5ish different passwords for different systems, and every one had different requirements. And different expiry dates!
One I only needed once a month for payroll to an outsourcing company had to change passwords once a month. Had to change password every damn time I used it.
But my favorite was the one that flagged anything containing a dictionary word as insecure. So 6!x8qD3iT2#f7j32^#ng^3!0 was an insecure password because of "iT". It encouraged you to use short passwords or passwords of only numbers because using letters risked it finding "it" or "as" or something else in the string.
I had to write my passwords down. After a month of trying to be clever it just was not worth it. The password requirements were confusing and sometimes mutually exclusive.
Security has to be a balance between security and convenience, else your users will decide to subvert your security just to get their jobs done.
Re:Inflated sense of self-importance by Bazer · 2011-06-20 21:49 · Score: 2

This is something I read in a comment under a previous story about LulzSec and it's worth repeating here. Your attitude bears resemblance to a servant saying "Now you done angered the Master, and we'll all get a good whippin'."

Impact on bitcoins? by turkeyfeathers · 2011-06-20 02:22 · Score: 5, Funny

They're targeting banks and other high-ranking establishments... are my bitcoins at MtGox going to be safe?

Re:Impact on bitcoins? by betterunixthanunix · 2011-06-20 02:30 · Score: 2

Your bitcoins were never and will never be safe, because the entire system is a scam.

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Palm trees and 8
Re:Impact on bitcoins? by tenaciousj · 2011-06-20 02:32 · Score: 5, Insightful

This will in no way affect your bitcoin collection. They will still be as big of a joke in the future as they are now.
Re:Impact on bitcoins? by pla · 2011-06-20 02:48 · Score: 3, Insightful

Y'know, I consider BitCoins pretty much just a nice idea, at this point, with plenty of problems and no real value (beyond speculation).

That said, the number of people who bother actually posting just to tell us how much they dislike them, in response to even the slightest, even humorous (in this case) mention of BTC... Just wow.

Makes me lean toward taking them a bit more seriously - No one hates on Linden dollars or even Facebook credits.
Re:Impact on bitcoins? by durrr · 2011-06-20 02:49 · Score: 2

But in the future they will have the enjoyable company of United States Dollars and the Euro as company.

Arguably they already do.
Re:Impact on bitcoins? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-06-20 03:03 · Score: 2, Interesting

I'll second that.
I appreciate the subtlety of BitCoin's distributed implementation. I'm only curious and don't buy or trade them.
The negative hate for them here feels more like a false flag operation than genuine posts?
To all the haters.... how did bitcoins hurt you so much that you know hate them?
Re:Impact on bitcoins? by hedwards · 2011-06-20 03:04 · Score: 3, Insightful

The problem is that as soon as people are allowed to post things which aren't true without being challenged, over time the falsehoods come to take on an aura of truth which is then difficult to deal with. Just like how now people still believe refer to healthcare reform as "obamacare" despite the conclusive evidence and references that most of the controversial stuff was lifted from conservative candidates.
Re:Impact on bitcoins? by turkeyfeathers · 2011-06-20 03:08 · Score: 3, Funny

To all the haters.... how did bitcoins hurt you so much that you know hate them?
By clogging up Slashdot's front page with bitcoin stories, when the space could be much better used for Packt book reviews.
Re:Impact on bitcoins? by Kamiza+Ikioi · 2011-06-20 03:25 · Score: 2

I hate on Linden dollars. They're "market" is a joke, because Linden repeatedly devastated it while running for cover to ban banks and gambling.
As for BTC, it's a "start", but it nowhere near mature enough to be used widely. A true distributed currency must allow users to define the rules, not the other way around. Though there is no "organization", the rules are the "system", and all systems have flaws.
Where I think BTC shines is in its proven method of transaction and triple record accounting. But the BTC currency itself is useless. The idea of mining is good, but to give the currency real value, it needs mining for data that itself is of real value, so that something of consequence is gained. Time is spent, but it's just digging one hole after another with no purpose.
The Linden took off because with the small subscription, everyone got Lindens. With BTC, you can't spend what you don't have. You have to toss around a few hundred thousand 0.01 BTC before you'll see people saying, "Hmmm, I wonder what I could buy with this?"
That's why Linden started working (that and real estate grabs).

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I8-D
Re:Impact on bitcoins? by betterunixthanunix · 2011-06-20 03:27 · Score: 2

What makes it a scam has nothing to do with the source code; it has to do with the fundamental architecture of Bitcoin. Bitcoin was designed to see an extreme rate of deflation early on, and gradually slow down as more people used the system. In other words, Bitcoin's developers and early adopters make enormous profits, and late adopters wind up losing.

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Palm trees and 8
Re:Impact on bitcoins? by betterunixthanunix · 2011-06-20 06:39 · Score: 2
What's inherently deflationary about it ? Are you arguing new bitcoins aren't generated fast enough ?
Essentially, yes: Bitcoins are not generated fast enough to prevent deflation; worse, Bitcoin is designed so that the rate of new currency generation is slowed down over time, regardless of whether or not the Bitcoin economy grows. Bitcoin has already seen substantial deflation over the past year.

Fiat currency does not have to be issued by a government. Wikipedia :
You must have missed these parts of that very article:
- Fiat money is money that has value only because of government regulation or law.
- A feature of all fiat money is its acceptability to the government for payment of taxes and charges.
- fiat money is based solely on faith in the government issuing the money.
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Palm trees and 8

Misguided Intentions by what2123 · 2011-06-20 02:23 · Score: 5, Insightful

While I am not against their intentions of trying to open up the government-corporation love affair, this will only result in the creation of stupid legislature where everyone is forced to present an ID on the internet. Of course, those that want to get around this will, the same way all ID-thieves work, steal some other persons information.

Re:Misguided Intentions by halivar · 2011-06-20 02:39 · Score: 2

It's a case of "whoever wins, we lose."
Re:Misguided Intentions by LWATCDR · 2011-06-20 02:57 · Score: 4, Insightful

It is an ego trip. Notice they are not targeting China or North Korea or even Israel. The reason is those and some other nations wouldn't think twice about a few accidents happening.
Yes this little ego trip will end up convincing the average voter and politico that they need to have the capital punishment for possession of packet sniffers. Books on TCP/IP will become classified and computer programers will have to show that they need to know those skills before they are allowed to own documents on APIs. All software will have to be signed and all programmers will have to be registered.
Gee thanks thanks you creeps for spoiling all the fun. Hope you like the LOLs kids.

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See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Re:Misguided Intentions by rastilin · 2011-06-20 03:03 · Score: 2

In essence your opinion is that we shouldn't stand up for truth because there are worse people out there and the perfectly innocent government will beat the tar out of us. That's a wonderful reason to do nothing; I wonder why wikileaks exists. You should tell them your idea :D.

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How do you kill that which has no life?
Re:Misguided Intentions by Calos · 2011-06-20 03:31 · Score: 2

Or maybe they don't target some of these other nations because everyone already assumes a high level of corruption, and the censorship in those countries are at a high enough level that the people that really need to be informed and can try for change - their own citizens - are never going to see the leaks anyway.

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I vote based on politicians' actions, unless contrary to my preconceptions. Often wrong, never uncertain. #iamthe99%
Re:Misguided Intentions by _Sprocket_ · 2011-06-20 03:34 · Score: 4, Insightful

In essence your opinion is that we shouldn't stand up for truth because there are worse people out there and the perfectly innocent government will beat the tar out of us. That's a wonderful reason to do nothing; I wonder why wikileaks exists. You should tell them your idea :D.
Which is great if what we're getting is truth. Wikileaks produces propaganda. Anonymous and lulzsec seem to produce little more than ego trips. What we have is groups thrashing around and creating really handy political targets for said "worse people" while producing very little for the effort. If anything, they are likely to be damaging the efforts of those who are or would be whistle-blowers producing evidence of real issues.
Re:Misguided Intentions by Infernal+Device · 2011-06-20 03:40 · Score: 2

Sure, they're going after governments, but the collateral damage comes from the civilian population - who look to the governments to take some action and actually remove the problem.
Not LulzSec - the average man on the street probably doesn't know who they are and doesn't care until their banking info is out there for the world to see, and then they're going to blame LulsSec, NOT the banks or the government.
I really think Luls and Anon are not out to do any actual good in the world, they just want to laugh and they really don't care who gets hurt in the process. I mean, it's certainly not them or anyone they know, so who cares, right?

--
"My God...it's full of trolls!"
Re:Misguided Intentions by LWATCDR · 2011-06-20 03:45 · Score: 4, Insightful

Funny but yea it is kind like being a hero that beats the crap out of jay walkers while the a serial killer is taking out a kindergarden. They do not pick on any really bad people just the safe ones like video game makers and front facing websites. Ewww they are soo worth looking up too. Wikileaks MODIFIED by adding emotionally manipulative video to the gunship footage to aid in fund raising. That right their makes them an outlet for propaganda. Instead of letting you decided for yourself they set you up to feel the way they wanted you too. Odds are that you will not see it or even believe it but that just shows how good of a job they did at manipulation.
Truth? Anon picks on the disabled and children and those that they don't agree with. They do not produce the truth they produce ego trips. They harassed a kid that put a website to discourage kids from using foul language just for the LOLs. That is anti-freedom of speech folks.
Sure stand up for the truth. Thing is no one stands up for the truth by hiding.
You know that whole Stand up and be counted thing?

--
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.

This is what happens when... by pandrijeczko · 2011-06-20 02:23 · Score: 5, Insightful

...one hacking group with small willies meets another hacking group with tiny penises.

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Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.

They're scared cause they got doxed... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-06-20 02:29 · Score: 3, Interesting

http://lulzsecexposed.blogspot.com/

Wait... wut? by d3ac0n · 2011-06-20 02:31 · Score: 3, Insightful

Top priority is to steal and leak any classified government information, including email spools and documentation. Prime targets are banks and other high-ranking establishments

Soo... Do they think that various governments are keeping their email at the bank?? Or have they swallowed that stupid "The government is run by the banks!" argument? Are they gonna go after "Da Joooos" next?

Meh, sounds like Lulzsec is just graduating from general annoyance to genuine criminality and using pseudo-political cover from some Anons to try and hide it.

--
Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory

Ignore the script kiddies by Bloodwine77 · 2011-06-20 02:32 · Score: 3, Insightful

I am getting tired of hearing about Anonymous and LulzSec.

While I do want a more transparent government, I am also to the point I want these script kiddies hoisted on their own petards before they do enough damage to cause more draconian laws and measures to be enacted by a knee-jerk (or carefully scheming, depending on your tinfoil hat) government.

Re:Ignore the script kiddies by stonedcat · 2011-06-20 03:00 · Score: 2

You're under the assumption that voting actually matters and isn't just a massive farce designed to keep the masses quelled.

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You can't take the sky from me.
Re:Ignore the script kiddies by pla · 2011-06-20 03:01 · Score: 5, Insightful

So it is their fault you voted for a totally corrupt out of control government who tramples on your rights daily in the name of "security"? Perhaps you should vote for someone who will actually uphold the US Constitution?

Because in the US, we have a choice between people who will ignore the constitution to build their utopian socialist welfare state, and people who will ignore the constitution to build their Christian-Industrial heaven-on-Earth.

I'd say showing support for the likes of LulzSec by publicly cheering them on comes about as close as most people can get to really voting for "none of the above".
Re:Ignore the script kiddies by creat3d · 2011-06-20 03:30 · Score: 2

You're under the assumption that Republicrat/Democran promises of cutting down the size of government are anything but false promises that'll turn out to be the exact the opposite, once in office, as they've always been.

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Grammar nazis are to this community what excrements are to gold.
Re:Ignore the script kiddies by EvilStein · 2011-06-20 03:43 · Score: 2

yeah, all of that "hope & change" bullshit sure worked. It got us *five* former RIAA lawyers in high cabinet positions, and a big government bought off by the RIAA/MPAA. The other choice were abortion hating Bible believing nuts.
Lovely. :/
Re:Ignore the script kiddies by Hatta · 2011-06-20 04:17 · Score: 2

Anonymous is the only group fighting back against encroaching authoritarianism. What alternatives are there? People have been working through the system for decades, and for decades the people have been losing power. Vigilantism is our only hope. I can't say I agree with all their methods, and all their targets, but on the whole they've been doing a lot more harm than good.

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Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Re:Ignore the script kiddies by HockeyPuck · 2011-06-20 04:32 · Score: 2

I'd say showing support for the likes of LulzSec by publicly cheering them on comes about as close as most people can get to really voting for "none of the above".
I guess you keep all your finances in your mattress then?

Lizard blood? by DemonGenius · 2011-06-20 02:32 · Score: 2

If they try to censor our progress, we will obliterate the censor with cannonfire anointed with lizard blood.

I guess this is the media corps opportunity to finally test out the potency of Charlie Sheen's tiger blood in retaliation.

Consequence will never be the same... by VortexCortex · 2011-06-20 02:39 · Score: 2

From TFA:

Top priority is to steal and leak any classified government information, including email spools and documentation.

I can't help but think that this is exactly what I would do if I were a once hacktivist turned undercover government agent trying to further the polictical agenda of censorship.

Around the same time that the US declares they will create a Cyber-Security strategy, (they already have cyber-attack force NSA, and professional espionage agencies as well) LulzSec is formed from those who cracked HBGary... Soon "the lulz" dictates that the common man (young and old) become witness to the threats of hacking (via attacks against porn and game servers).

Now, we have LulzSec requesting the assistance of everyone (including Anonymous -- though they have not confirmed their participation), to directly attack all governments while their are Internet censorship and cyber security bills afoot. It seems to me just the sort of disinformation and FUD campaign I would perform if I wanted to give all hackers an even worse name, and drag down Anonymous too.

Funny how Anonymous used primarily an unsophisticated traffic generation tool -- the equivalent of repeatedly pressing [F5] while viewing a website (not even a reflected distributed denial of service, which would have been much harder to trace and deliver more traffic) -- to attack primarily pro censorship political targets, yet LulzSec focuses on the most buzz generating of targets with much more sophisticated attacks.

What do you want to bet that LulzSec is taken down as soon as the powers that be wish them down, and that no real damage will come of their attacks?

Even if they are not government agents, anyone who follows behind the LulzSec banner is playing directly into the censors hands...

Federal Reserve? by taiwanjohn · 2011-06-20 02:40 · Score: 2

Since Congress seems unable or unwilling to audit the Fed, maybe these guys can handle the job. At least that would be a useful application of their "l33t skillz" for a change.

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XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC

Please be nice about it by Bengie · 2011-06-20 02:40 · Score: 2

I hope they just keep it to a wikileak+smear campaign and not actually leak info that can get people killed.

Re:Focus, please by tnk1 · 2011-06-20 02:44 · Score: 3, Insightful

I hope they have forensic accountants, because just getting a list of accounts isn't going to do squat in uncovering anything.

If you wanted to get rid of internet anonymity... by Smigh · 2011-06-20 02:53 · Score: 2

What kind of news would you want if you wanted to get rid of internet anonymity?

Probably this kind and the kind we've been reading for the last months.

I don't see the lulz in this.

Re:Focus, please by pla · 2011-06-20 02:56 · Score: 4, Insightful

Banks have classified "Government" information? What are these kids trying to achieve, exactly?

Quick question - Why did we bail out Goldman, but not Lehman?

Totally unrelated second question - Which former CEO of Goldman Sachs "just happened" to also serve as the Secretary of the Treasury who oversaw the bank bailouts at the peak of the recession?

You want to find out who has the real power, you look at who has the money. Simple as that.

Re:Focus, please by jeffmeden · 2011-06-20 02:57 · Score: 4, Insightful

Banks have classified "Government" information? What are these kids trying to achieve, exactly?

Emails, most likely. Like the alleged Bank of America scandalous emails that WikiLeaks talked up. Remember, these days nationwide banks and Governments have a LOT in common (see: speculation, regulation, insider deals, campaign contribs, etc.)

Re:Focus, please by ElectricTurtle · 2011-06-20 02:58 · Score: 3, Informative

All they have to do is get the raw data and dump it to the internet. Crowdsourcing will do the analysis, just as has been done with all previous email and doc dropping leaks. If you drop it they will come, bored or curious persons of all skillsets.

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I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit

Re:Focus, please by DarkOx · 2011-06-20 03:00 · Score: 2

Yes, I'd love to see a full accounting of the various bailouts, stress test results, DOJ filings related to the utter lack of documentation used to foreclose, which CEO's trade the most E-mail with the Treasury Dept, etc etc.

This is actually probably some of the most IMPORTANT to the public secrets the government is keeping. Who cares about military documents, and diplomatic cables, this is the stuff of why we evolved in the first place.

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Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

Re:If they actually accomplish this impact by nschubach · 2011-06-20 03:03 · Score: 2

Still... that requires SWAT? A group specially trained for hostile situations to be used as last resort? Are the fraudsters going to throw sharp pointy money at the officers?

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Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.

These groups could be useful by greymond · 2011-06-20 03:04 · Score: 2

Groups like Anonymous and LulSec could probably do a lot more good for a lot of people if instead of pontificating about leaking government information actually did something useful like erase consumer debts instead of just posting passwords to porn sites online...

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Ave Molech Setting

Re:These groups could be useful by Smigh · 2011-06-20 03:10 · Score: 2

Any vigilante could potentially do good things but would you really trust random individuals (as egotistical and immature they may be) going around making justice by their own hands?
Re:These groups could be useful by geoskd · 2011-06-20 09:10 · Score: 2, Informative

Groups like Anonymous and LulSec could probably do a lot more good for a lot of people if instead of pontificating about leaking government information actually did something useful like erase consumer debts instead of just posting passwords to porn sites online...
Although I agree that eliminating individual debt would be a worthwhile goal, it is very unlikely to succeed in this day of nearly permanent data. There are so many backups that permanently destroying data is damned difficult. You can make the information harder to retrieve, but an attack on the financial system on that scale would galvanize nearly everyone against them. Economic collapse is too easy to cause by messing with banks, and the specter of a new depression terrifies most people old enough to have heard the stories. Even young people who can't get a job because of the current recession will fully understand the implications of economic collapse.

To put in simple terms, a cash economy can only be so big because cash moves around very slowly, and requires large deposits of cash (savings) to allow open spending. Credit accelerates the economy by allowing much more efficient processing of funds. Our current cash economy is roughly 2% of the world economy. If you wipe out the credit economy, the world product drops by 98%, and people start starving by the hundreds of millions. Only the truly crazy, or exceptionally ignorant want to see that. So, we're stuck with the bad side of credit, like it or not, because the alternative is a nightmare.

The basic underpinning of how credit accelerates the economy, is how any large company processes their payroll. Back in the 19th century, a large company would maintain a large cash reserve for paying its employees. That way when employees cashed their checks each month, they would not bounce. This meant that companies had to have earnings *in advance* of their payroll needs. Today, large companies have payroll credit accounts which allow them to pay their employees from an account similar to a Home Equity Line of Credit. They pay a small interest rate on this debt, but it frees up their entire payroll for investment, so instead of having to tie up their entire payroll, they can invest that money in growth, with little or no penalty in financial terms. The entire concept is called leverage, and it is so powerful it has allowed our economy to grow to many tens of times the size it would be without it.

Pull that rug out from under everyone, and companies will not be able to pay their employees, who then will not be able to pay for anything, which will cause every companies revenues to drop which will exacerbate the problem. It s a nasty downward spiral which would make Black Tuesday look like a ticker tape parade. If the banks closed all of the payroll credit lines today, almost no one would get paid for many months. The ensuing run on the banks would collapse all of the banks, which would then default on all payments, preventing credit card payments from being paid out, preventing companies from paying their employees at all and causing the weaker governments to default on their payments. When they collapsed, it would take down the IMF and the world bank, and the snow-ball effect would take down the U.S., China, Germany, and the rest of the worlds "strong" governments withing a few months. If we were lucky, we would not end up in the middle of a global civil war. Food riots would commence in every medium sized and larger city in then world. People would exit the cities in mass and descend on the rural countryside, devastating crops. A very large percentage (50%+) of the population of the world would starve during the first winter, with most of those remaining starving in the next few years. It would be a return to a farm economy, and anything you didn't make with your own hands would be a rare luxury.

the U.S. TARP measures weren't the result of congress people not understanding a problem and responding wrongly, it was a matter of avert

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I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted

Re:Focus, please by bws111 · 2011-06-20 03:29 · Score: 2

Yeah, a bunch of unauthenticated data dumped to the internet by unknown persons is really valuable stuff. Or are we just supposed to take their word for it? Or maybe, if the (unauthenticated) data indicates someone you don't like did something improper, then it simply MUST be true?

Re:Focus, please by artor3 · 2011-06-20 03:55 · Score: 4, Informative

Because the Goldman Sachs bailout came over a month after Lehman Brothers crashed! TARP was in many ways a response to that crash. It wasn't even three years ago! How have you already forgotten?

Stop lying. Stop spreading conspiracy theories. Just stop.

Re:Focus, please by pla · 2011-06-20 04:43 · Score: 4, Informative

Because the Goldman Sachs bailout came over a month after Lehman Brothers crashed! TARP was in many ways a response to that crash. It wasn't even three years ago! How have you already forgotten?

Well, one of us seems to have already forgotten, anyway...

For example, which of us remembers the 50 billion in TAF approved six months before Lehman collapsed, with hundreds of billions more in near-weekly expansions to that program?

Or that the the first big-money bailout happened at the end of July 2008 (two months prior to Lehman), with the US government starting its buyout of Fanny and Freddy thanks to 300 billion from the HERA and a guarantee of unlimited credit?

Or that quite a few smaller banks had gone belly-up in the two months after HERA and prior to Lehman?

Or the fact that congress hauled Bernanke's butt in, before the end of that week to justify his decision (it didn't "just happen", we let it happen) not to bail out Lehman?

Or most telling of all, that the Federal Reserve did bail out AIG the same goddamned day Lehman's value dropped by 2/3rds?

Stop lying. Stop spreading conspiracy theories. Just stop.

I have no interest in revisionism, but We The People got fucked, and hard. So, which financial institution do you work for?

This is taking aim at the correct opponents by RanceJustice · 2011-06-20 07:45 · Score: 2

THIS is the kind of stuff that these teams should be spending their time on. Loathe as they are to admit it, Anon is at their best when they're fighting an "actual evil". There is an element of the "We don't give a fuck! Look how cool we are!" groups that decide to hack some game developer's site for the lulz and release everyone's passwords, but its really not that lulzy - its causing real damage to real people who don't deserve it. The greatest lulz are had from exposing corruption - sticking it to people who didn't know ZeniMax had terribad security and were stupid enough to make such accounts? Not so great. Sticking it to Sony for their heavyhanded punishment of PSN users, law suits, and horrible response to anyone who wanted to use the console they paid for as they wished? Better. Unveiling that an FBI-employed individual who runs his own private infosec company is not only incapable of securing his own website, but is corrupt enough to use our tax money to offer LulzSec a contract to take out his private industry white hat competitors? This kind of stuff is the best.

These movements are truly the only light we have in the darkness - moneyed private interests and their government puppets have become complacent in their corruption and the average citizen has little power to stop the cycle. They have a near unlimited amount of money and power, but through hubris their lies become visible through the actions of Anonymous, WikiLeaks, LulzSec and the others that fight against censorship and other abuses of power. Look at websites like BoASucks - showing conclusively they knew they were handing out bad loans and looking to screw people financially. WikiLeaks data showed that my tax dollars went to funding boy-fucking parties for Afghan leaders and a private contract merc corp, a couple of chucklefucks laughed like they played Call of Duty while shooting a makeshift ambulance known to have children inside during the Iraq conflict, and that all the corruption of the 2 quagmire conflicts over the past 10 years were just as bad as we thought they'd be.

We need these groups to help inform the people and make them angry. Angry enough to look beyond the puppet show and realize that we're living in a corporate plutocracy and its only getting worse. These groups use the force multiplier of the Internet to strike at a vastly better funded and protected enemy; its one of the only options we have at the moment until Americans are willing to do what the Arab World is doing...which doesn't seem likely as long as the bread and circuses are cheap enough. However, the fight against the Scientology proved the power of groups like Anon to provide a "spark" to ignite when the powder keg is packed full enough, and information to fill it. Prior to Anon's campaign, most of America thought Scientology was just "some weird new age thing celebs do", but those who's families were torn apart by Fair Game tactics and lost loved ones were suffering alone against a seemingly invincible opponent with a horde of lawyers and crooked power-brokers on its payroll. Anon's activity is nearly singlehandedly responsible for bringing their offenses into the light. Though some will say "but they didn't totally destroy it, so its a loss", this isn't the case at all. Now, the average American will at least know its a "creepy cult" and instances such as certain states and countries (Texas and Germany come to mind, plus others) have revoked their tax-exempt status due to Anon's work. Recruitment is down and those who have been abused by Scientology Orgs are now more willing than ever to engage in legal battles. Its really a pretty amazing thing when you think about it, fostered by a bunch of typically 20's-30s upper-middle class males who decided to wear masks, protest, and get the word out. For some it was an issue of ethics, for others simply for the lulz, its effect is undeniable. I've even heard from some Arab Awakening youth who said that Anon was one of the inspirations for them to join the various movements, showing that young

Gobels@wikileaks.com by TiggertheMad · 2011-06-20 07:46 · Score: 2

Which is great if what we're getting is truth. Wikileaks produces propaganda.

Funny, I thought they just posted leaked documents. That seems fairly truthful to me. Sure, there is some grandstanding in the manner that they release them, but that doesn't make them any less truthful. Unless you are suggesting that they are just fabricating all the info that they are releasing, I'm not even sure what you are trying to say.

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HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!

a short lesson in customer service by decora · 2011-06-20 10:34 · Score: 2

Jim - call center worker
Boss - the boss
Irate caller - you

Jim: "OK sir, i just need to verify your ID with some recent transactions..."

Irate caller: "Wtf is this, security theatre?"

Jim: "OK, sir, you have a great point. I'll be sure to take that complaint to the proper authorities!"

Jim: "Hi boss, we got a caller... he says that our identity verification process is just security theatre!!!'

Boss: "Wait, what the fuck is your name again?"

Jim: "Uh... Jim.. sir... "

Boss: "Well, Jim, Sir, get your fat ass back in there, back in your fucking seat, and take some fucking calls. "

Jim: "Yes uhm.. yes sir.. u"

Boss: "Hold on. Let me look at your fucking numbers. Jim. jim. What the fuck Jim? Your job is to answer calls, not chitty chat with the users. Resolve them, and get to the next one. Understand? How .. fuck it. youre fired. "

Jim: "..... "

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