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Homemade 'Mars In a Bottle' Tortures Bacteria
astroengine writes "The only time we've ever directly looked for life on Mars was during the 1970s, when NASA's Viking landers attempted to make direct measurements of Martian microbes metabolizing. Even today, the results of these groundbreaking experiments are hotly debated. Although the Viking experiments were often considered premature, a team of scientists hope to refine the next life-searching experiment to be sent to the Red Planet by building a Mars habitat on Earth. Imagine a Mars environment 'goldfish bowl' complete with UV radiation, dust, chilly temperatures, and an extremely low atmospheric pressure. So what have they done with this micro-Mars environment? They've been torturing various terrestrial microbes to see how they enjoy stints on the Martian surface. Their results have shown that even Earth microorganisms have a trick or two up their sleeves to survive in this alien environment."
And in some millions of years, future lifeforms will have good theories about panspermia.
So, since when is it OK to torture living things? What the fuck? When did this shit happen? Why is this not being shut down immediately? Let's get the activists on the job, and notify the lawyers. We've got work to do, people.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
I think the Viking probes and all that other shit we threw at the planet already did. You can't get them microbe-less once the components are exposed to air, some spores will survive.
There was some controversy that the activity seen in the Martian soil by the Vikings was due to terrestrial contamination (or the chemical activity of the soil), so the soil tests were deemed inconclusive (Gas Release was negative, along with Gas Chromatograph/Mass Spectrometer readings, and pyrolitic release. The only positive was labeled release, which may have been due to inorganic reactions), and most scientists do not accept them as proof of life.
Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
As a vegan pinko hippie who loves you all, this one has been weighing on my mind recently. My partner (who is omnivorous, but supports cruelty-free farming) decided to get some live mealworms a few days ago to breed and feed to the birds, explaining that the cat has been quite the bird assassin the past few months and this may help strengthen up the population.
While there's certainly no intention to "torture" the mealworms, just give them comfortable living conditions until they are put out where birds are likely to eat them, there's still the issue of sending little creatures to their death. Do I worry about it less because it's a worm and not a lamb? Or a dog?
(I have this image now of that strip where two guys are discussing some problem on the golf course and a black guy appears and says, "Is this the sort of problem white people have?" Really, I'm very grateful that I'm in a position where I can worry about stuff like this, although we have significant health difficulties in the family so it's by far my greatest worry... life's weird...)
News for ya: if bacteria survives as implied by the article, Mars was likely contaminated long ago even before humans started space explorations. Most likely by a comet bashing into things.
Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
The same question is asked of everyone who raises an ethical or philosophical question before its time.
"There's no divine right of kings." What the fuck is wrong with you?
"Blacks are people too." What the fuck is wrong with you?
"Class isn't a birthright." What the fuck is wrong with you?
"Chimpanzees have behaviour suggesting very human-like emotion and intelligence." What the fuck is wrong with you?
"Dogs may not be as bright as humans, but they have capacity for pain and suffering which must be taken into account." What the fuck is wrong with you?
"Much simpler organisms appear to react to stimuli we'd regard as painful in a similar way to us - do they feel pain too?" What the fuck is wrong with you?
"Or should we judge a species' worthiness to life by its intelligence rather than its perceived pain responses? If so, why shouldn't we judge humans similarly?" What the fuck is wrong with you?
I'm allowed to think about the questions. I'm not imposing any conclusion on anyone - I haven't even made one yet. Maybe I never shall, but in the meanwhile I retain an open mind. Does this worry you? Do you want me to angrily tell you that you're a murderer if you swat flies? Are you simply annoyed that I think about these sorts of things rather than whatever you like to think about?
What stereotype would you like me to conform to in order to reinforce your beliefs about those who disagree with you?
(in b4 ybht)
Kim Stanley Robinson wrote about "Mars Bottles" in his Mars Trilogy 20 years ago. I'm glad someone is finally trying it!
I think what the most eloquent AC was trying to say is that predation is entirely part of nature - animals eat other animals all the time - so it makes no sense to worry about it. Those little mealworms are, by being eaten, fulfilling their manifest destiny as part of the chain of life, and you should send them on their way knowing that you have only helped them do what they exist to do in the first place. Possibly the AC's version was more succinct though ;).
Oh no... it's the future.
I know some spores and microbes can survive the harsh conditions of space for a while, but what are the chances that those particularly tough critturs were the ones the Mars landers were contaminated with?
He's not trying to get you to buy one, he's trying to get search engines to rank his site for those terms. Just like the 'someone should write a dissertation on diss' idiot, he hasn't yet realised that, although Slashdot has a high page rank, it puts rel="nofollow" on all links in comments, so search engines will ignore them.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
You're certainly right that it's nature's way, but the question mark appears when I'm making a conscious decision to have a hand in the process. The fox which digs a hole which exposes the worm and the bird which takes the worm don't really have the capacity to make a choice. I do have a choice to help the birds, or help the worms, or leave everything alone, or give some balanced input to offset the tremendous impact my modern lifestyle is having.
The Duke of Edinburgh, bless his privileged socks, fairly effectively summarised two different approaches in a recent interview: you can be an conservationist, concerning yourself at a species level with extinction and other large-scale changes; or you can be a "bunny hugger", worrying too much about the plight of some random donkey. I'd like not to lose sight of the wood for the trees without losing the compassion of the latter sort.
100%.
Those fuckers can survive damn near anything, and they're omnipresent (the archeobacteria and other extremophiles present around geothermal vents, in deep drill-cores, and all those other places aren't the only indestructible microbes). The law of large numbers practically requires them to have been on the landers.
Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
Hold still. There's one on your eyeball.
"Stratigraphically the origin of agriculture and thermonuclear destruction will appear essentially simultaneous" -- Lee
I have uploaded some pics of the bacteria in the Martian atmosphere:
http://i.imgur.com/WRO02.jpg [SFW - not goatse]
Enjoy.
"The fox which digs a hole which exposes the worm and the bird which takes the worm don't really have the capacity to make a choice."
If you'd spent anytime observing birds and bird behavior, you'd know that some birds very well have the capacity to make a choice. Humans aren't the only animals on the planet that kill other members of their own species or members of other species just for the sake of killing or territory.
I have an older (16 year old) Green Iguana who understands the concept of glass and doors,* he will go taunt smaller lizards (Central Inland Bearded Dragons, Uromasytxs) who don't understand how glass works. He will get them spun up with head bobs, then leave to go piss off the others, once all the smaller lizards are upset, he will retire to his room to bask.
* - Not all lizard species understand what glass is, even larger ones like Agamid lizards, so they spent hours "glass surfing". Monitors and Iguana often figure out what glass is, and sometimes even mirrors.
Enhanced interrogation?
The other question, with spores and such, is whether any of the survivors are surviving actively or passively.
In spore/inactive form, some of the hardier microcritters won't even blink at truly alarming temperature excursions, stints in hard vacuum with a side of radiation, or potentially years to centuries of storage under martian conditions. However, they won't actually do anything until somebody takes them inside and gives them something closer to the weather they actually like.
Such a contamination situation isn't ideal(you'll have to ensure that it isn't just them waking up during all your 'is it life?' experiments, which will be a pain); but it also isn't a deal-breaker: in inactive form they won't be mutating, or reproducing, or modifying their environment, so their numbers will be fixed and small and their impact quite minimal until we get around to doing some more experiments.
If, on the other hand, we accidentally introduced something that is active under martian conditions, it could be merrily mutating and terraforming its way through whatever pockets of mars are only moderately hostile, which would render them pretty much hopeless for research into possible martian life.