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Law Professors vs the PROTECT IP Act

Freddybear writes "Along with 90 (and still counting) other Internet law and IP law professors, David Post of the Volokh Conspiracy law blog has drafted and signed a letter in opposition to Senator Leahy's 'PROTECT IP Act.' Quoting: 'The Act would allow the government to break the Internet addressing system. It requires Internet service providers, and operators of Internet name servers, to refuse to recognize Internet domains that a court considers "dedicated to infringing activities." But rather than wait until a Web site is actually judged infringing before imposing the equivalent of an Internet death penalty, the Act would allow courts to order any Internet service provider to stop recognizing the site even on a temporary restraining order or preliminary injunction issued the same day the complaint is filed. Courts could issue such an order even if the owner of that domain name was never given notice that a case against it had been filed at all.'"

45 of 212 comments (clear)

  1. LOL! American Freedom! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    LOL, is this the "American Freedom" I heard so much about as a youth growing up in Hungary during the Cold War?

    1. Re:LOL! American Freedom! by cshark · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yep. We're as bad as China. Just in different ways. Difference is, here in the US, we're fucking hypocrites about it.

      --

      This signature has Super Cow Powers

    2. Re:LOL! American Freedom! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, you're not as bad as China. You still have free political speech, which is the most basic thing - thanks to it, these professors can publish materials explaining just how bad this law is, and campaign for getting it repealed. Whereas in China, no matter what goes wrong, you can't really complain.

      This isn't to say that "PROTECT IP" act is not bad - it is - but limitations on political speech are infinitely worse in comparison.

    3. Re:LOL! American Freedom! by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 4, Funny

      Come on, man. Don't step on the hyperbole!

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    4. Re:LOL! American Freedom! by gullevek · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They can still complain, because we can still read it online. But no one will listen to them, and then one day you cannot read of them anymore, because they get silently censored.

      So much for free speak in america.

      The internet is just too scary for the people in power. They see their control slipping away, so they will slowly turn it into a consume only medium like TV is.

      --
      "Freiheit ist immer auch die Freiheit des Andersdenkenden" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1871 - 1919
    5. Re:LOL! American Freedom! by RobbieThe1st · · Score: 3, Interesting

      However, if we ignore it, it might get quietly slipped through - One might argue that the strategy is to make sure there are so many stupid bills which never get anywhere that the senators(and others) start ignoring them. At which point one might manage to slip through.

    6. Re:LOL! American Freedom! by tepples · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, you're not as bad as China. You still have free political speech, which is the most basic thing

      Until your political opponents accuse you of infringement on questionable grounds and get your domain blocked.

    7. Re:LOL! American Freedom! by zblack_eagle · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think the "Freedom of Speech" became freedom to make noise some time ago. There's a lot more noise going on than speech these days, or at least that's what gets the attention of people. Bread and Circuses and Two Minutes' Hate for everybody!

    8. Re:LOL! American Freedom! by Runaway1956 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Stupid bills that want to become stupid laws, but are defeated, are just reintroduced in the following legislative session, usually as a rider on some other, far more important bill. Or, possibly even worse, the bill is defeated repeatedly, until something like ACTA is signed as a treaty.

      Stupid bills never just go away, their authors just get sneaky about pushing the thing through the legislative body in some other fashion.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    9. Re:LOL! American Freedom! by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 2

      Yes, pretty much. The Soviets lied to you, and so did we. Big surprise.

      This particular law is hardly worth protesting, though, as it will be declared unconstitutional as soon as it its the courts. The US Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint, as the saying goes, and that's what this is.

    10. Re:LOL! American Freedom! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And then you sue them for libel and get it unblocked - in the meantime, setting up a website on a different domain to get your point across.

      I mean, let's be serious here. There's no comparison between freedom of speech in US and China, which is obvious to anyone who bothers to check the fact. And there's no need for hyperbole and other cheap propaganda tricks when pointing out bad things. Whether it's better or worse than China is completely irrelevant - what you should care about is whether it's good or bad for your own country.

    11. Re:LOL! American Freedom! by Bengie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sounds great on paper. But now you need to spend thousands of dollars to sue someone for a $5 website that you did in your spare time. And you have to take off from work and the most you'll get out of losing a half-years and getting fired for missing so much work, is your web-site is eventually brought back up after it's no longer useful and can no longer afford the $5/month because you no longer have a job.

      yeah... great system. Any other great ideas?

    12. Re:LOL! American Freedom! by rtb61 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think you don't really get it. The law professors don't give a crap an about music linking sites, they care about political speech sites.

      Don't think it affects political speech, please wait 6 months after a complaint is filed, after spending thousands on lawyers and legal fees, to prove in court that you web site did not have infringing music, a paragraph from a book, plagiarised, shared an idea etc. etc and was only about politics and is original work. Oh yes, than rinse and repeat was the case is dropped as the new case is filed. You think for a second that corrupt corporations via insane right wing politics wont seek to pull that crap on every popular web site that challenges their bull shit.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    13. Re:LOL! American Freedom! by dryeo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Couple differences: People hating the government here are free to say so.

      In China, it means the complainer and their family will "wake up in pieces" since dissidents make great organ donors. The prison factories also need labor too, so the more people incarcerated, the better, and it really doesn't take much to be jailed in China for a long time.

      Hate to say it but a lot of American imports here are manufactured in the American prison system. It doesn't take much to get jailed in America for a long time either and the prison industry has good lobbyists.
      You are right about being allowed to bitch about the government though.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    14. Re:LOL! American Freedom! by SuricouRaven · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm sure the Church of Scientology loves the idea, given their history of suing their critics for copyright infringement.

    15. Re:LOL! American Freedom! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And then you sue them for libel and get it unblocked

      Haven't you heard of being swiftboated? A number of liars got up and lied in order to directly harm John Kerry by calling him a coward who lied to get a medal. You do that close enough to a vote, and the truth doesn't matter. By the time you've sorted out the mess, you've lost. And if you prosecute them after, then you are a sore loser.

      Or is it only a bad thing if the Democrats do something but when the Republicans engage in a conspiracy to rob the Democratic office in some hotel or commit fraudulent libel, that's OK because the Democrats deserve it?

    16. Re:LOL! American Freedom! by aevan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'd imagine the point was suing takes time and is after the fact and damages are done. Winning in court might net you cash (if it amounts to more than the legal costs), but won't necessarily clear your name, or even be equivalent to the damages. Think there is an old saying about 'a lie has walked many miles while the truth is still putting its boots on'.

      Being silenced at a crucial point might not be recoverable from; setting up alternate websites would be near pointless if you're being specifically targeted and the blocking takes effect near instantly.

      In this instance, believe AC is inferring that a presidential candidate lost his chance to being elected due to being slandered en masse. Any attempting to sue would just end up making matters worse for him, being seen as sour grapes.

    17. Re:LOL! American Freedom! by darjen · · Score: 2

      People in the USA also get arrested and shot for demonstrating.

  2. I'm no longer conerced about it by countertrolling · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The law will provide great incentive to develop new technologies to work around it.

    --
    For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    1. Re:I'm no longer conerced about it by mellon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's all well and good, but at the same time it's going to cause a *huge* hassle for ISPs, a *huge* hassle for content providers, and a *huge* hassle for end users. Sure, the bleeding edge geeks will have workarounds (the simplest being to set up your own name server).

      But it's going to make deploying DNSSEC a nightmare, because now we're going to have court orders requiring ISPs to break DNSSEC. Ultimately every customer router box will have to be a DNSSEC resolver, and will have to go to the root to get correct information. Home router vendors have not covered themselves in glory with previous DNS work they've done; there's no reason to expect that they'll do a good job this time either. The bottom line is that if this passes, the result will be:

      • an added degree of flakiness in the network which will be completely inexplicable to the average end user.
      • huge cost increase for ISPs
      • substantially increased load on root and TLD servers
      • more DNS traffic on the network (this one probably isn't a big deal, except...)
      • Increased DNS query latency
    2. Re:I'm no longer conerced about it by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've never been conerced about it. It's as if I was around in a state of olbivion.

      C'mon, it was an obvious typo - don't be a sas about it.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    3. Re:I'm no longer conerced about it by sFurbo · · Score: 2

      I don't think it will be a huge cost for the ISP, as far as I can tell, we have something like that in Denmark. The ISPs have court orders to block e.g. piratebay and allofmp3.com. The ISPs do this by removing the entries in their DNSes. In stead, it redirects to a page saying what a bad place you just tried to access. The ISPs have not been up in arms over it, so I don't think it is that expensive.

      It is censorship, though. These pages host many things that is definitely legal, and that is blocked as well. Of course, circumventing the block is as easy as pointing your computer or router to a DNS working correctly, but how many people know how to do that?

    4. Re:I'm no longer conerced about it by Mask · · Score: 2

      The stricter the US internet laws are the bigger the chance it will be cut off of the rest of the internet. If the most of the internet users live in freer countries, they will use a different set of DNSSEC resolvers. This means that internet addressing will become fragmented between the US and the free world such that the same address means one thing in the US and another in the free world.

      The economic impact on the US, of such a fragmentation, will be considerable. It will be a natural continuation of US economy's decline. As usual the brilliant politicians will blame the situation on pirates and will continue to draft even stricter free-speech (anti-piracy) laws.

      I am glad that I do not live in the US, but this situation may change. Unfortunately many countries tend to copy the worst US practices (laws and behaviour), over time. We may end up in the US fragment of the internet and not where the rest of the world is.

  3. Re:"Internet death penalty" by cshark · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How is it going over the top?
    You're totally stripping due process out of the equation.
    If someone makes a living from their website, and you kill that website, you are basically killing someone.

    The metaphor is fair.
    Doesn't take a lot of imagination to see that.

    --

    This signature has Super Cow Powers

  4. Welcome to the two-tier internet. by bmo · · Score: 2

    Real Internet for those of us who know what we're doing.

    Censored internet for the proles.

    And we can lord it over them.

    Good times to be had by all.

    --
    BMO

  5. Re:"Internet death penalty" by bmo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The difference is that blacklists are entirely voluntary.

    Also...

    Spammer spotted.

    --
    BMO - Lumber Cartel membership # 2501

  6. Re:"Internet death penalty" by Sinthet · · Score: 2

    I dunno, it seems pretty accurate in the context of a website. You're essentially stopping anyone from viewing it (at least in theory) therefore killing the site's ability to perform its intended function. Its true that the comparison is a bit sensationalist, but in the context of a website, its pretty accurate at the same time.

  7. Re:"Internet death penalty" by Dunbal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Who was it that said "where one burns books, one ultimately burns people"? What is the internet but a great giant book that everyone can write a chapter in? The comparison between censorship and murder is older than both of us.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  8. Copyright is Socialism... by paulsnx2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The PROTECT IP act is a freebie given to Big Content because it is too expensive for them to police the use of their own content. Regardless of what anyone thinks about Copyright, this is a clear example of leveraging government to enforce artificial restrictions on the use of content in favor of the companies that seek to monetize said content.

    We have laws already in place for companies to lodge complaints with websites when their content is being used without license. But the content companies complain that it is too hard for them to find unlicensed use of their content. The solution via this act is to take down content on **possible** unlicensed use by the government and by other companies on a simple complaint.

    IF the PROTECT IP provided heavy penalties for false or inflated complaints, then okay. But it doesn't.

    IF the PROTECT IP provided for possible criminal charges should it be used to violate free speech as opposed to taking down infringing content, then okay. But it doesn't.

    IF the PROTECT IP provided fees and taxes on Big Content to cover the public expense of implementing the act, then okay. But it doesn't.

    ANY Government granted system of monopolies granted out to privileged parties, where such monopolies do not and in fact cannot exist without Government intervention, this is socialism. It is bad enough that we have copyrights that last over a hundred years, and that we cannot upload birthday videos because a song written in the 1800's is (most would say falsely) under copyright. That we have extend copyright terms without compensation to the public.

    But why should the public pick up the bill to enforce copyright?

    Make Big Content to pay for it, and make Big Content liable for misuse of it, and throw anyone in jail if they use it to inhibit free speech, then okay.

    But that won't fly. Because this is about making money, and Big Content can't make money if they are at risk, or have to pay for the enforcement of their own (supposed) rights.

    1. Re:Copyright is Socialism... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I have NO idea, where you Americans get your definition of "socialism" from. FOX "News"?

      Because it couldn't be more wrong.

      What it actually resembles, is a fascist dictatorship. Which is what the GDR, and other so-called "socialist" states *actually* were.

      So PROTIP: Just because those countries called themselves "socialist" or "communist", doesn't mean they were.
      Just like if someone called the USA (or many, many other countries) "democratic". You would laugh at him for being so delusional.

      It's fascism. The merger of industry and government. Resulting in the law of the jungle. Aka. the "free market".

      Why can 300 million people (or 500 in the EU) not crush a few thousand (yes, it's not more, no matter how bit they make themselves look) terrorists? (I mean the MAFIAA aka. "Big Content". They are terrorizing people for their own gains. Which is the actual definition of "terrorism".)

    2. Re:Copyright is Socialism... by paulsnx2 · · Score: 3, Informative

      This law DOES put the enforcement of these laws in the hands of the copyright holder. And I will bet (if it passes) that I will be complaining about how Rich Corporations are abusing this bill by bullying small companies (small copyright holders).

      My point is that (without changing any other part of this bill) Big Content should fund the bill if you are going to pass it. If they are not going to pay fees or taxes to cover the cost of implementation, then it is a gift to Big Content.

    3. Re:Copyright is Socialism... by paulsnx2 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I used the term as a troll. I can be honest and I can admit my faults. I haven't anything against socialism myself. But you have to understand that in the U.S. it is an awful insult to the Republicans among us. And if you look at the implementation of Copyright from a certain perspective, it is clear that this is a Government imposed right for a few being imposed upon the people. In the U.S. we usually call that socialism. It really isn't socialism, but that is what most people walking down the street would call it (when it is described in these terms).

      But I haven't any problem with considering copyright as being fascist. I have no problem considering copyright as terrorism.

      You know, you write a post and you take an angle and you go with it.

    4. Re:Copyright is Socialism... by paulsnx2 · · Score: 2

      The comment was a troll, but aimed at those that might think this bill promotes capitalism. It does not, but rather copyright is about building artificial markets. Most Americans view socialism as the opposite of capitalism, and so I used the term loosely along those lines.

      I understand that economic models are more complex than that, but hey! It was a post written on a whim!

    5. Re:Copyright is Socialism... by currently_awake · · Score: 2

      Socialism: giving taxpayer money to the poor. Capitalism: giving taxpayer money to the rich.

  9. Re:"Internet death penalty" by cptdondo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Once you establish the precedent, you're on a slippery slope. This has been coming for a long time. A black person driving from Florida carrying a lot of cash is assumed to be a drug runner. Their car and cash are confiscated without a trial and they have to fight to get it back.

    A Hispanic person in Arizona must show ID to prove s/he is a citizen, otherwise they're assumed to be illegal.

    Now your website and your business can be taken away just on the accusation of violating some copyright somewhere.

    Ever read any of Niven's sci-fi? We're just about there. Next step, organ banks.

  10. Re:"Internet death penalty" by Fjandr · · Score: 5, Informative

    Refusing to route traffic to a site is a death-knell to it no matter how you slice it. The term "death" has many different and perfectly reasonable contexts. Only one of those is biological death.

  11. anyone really surpriced? by superwiz · · Score: 2

    Democrats are married to Hollywood. Anyone really surprised that they would try for a law which would let Hollywood to punish people as soon as they are accused of "piracy"?

    --
    Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
    1. Re:anyone really surpriced? by superwiz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, not really. Their contributions to Democrats dwarf their contributions to Republicans. When was the last time LA traffic was stopped because GW Bush went to Hollywood for a fundraiser? Never. It already happened twice in the 2.5 years of Obama's administration.

      --
      Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
    2. Re:anyone really surpriced? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Funny

      Democrats are married to Hollywood.

      I believe the correct term is "civil union".

      --
      #DeleteChrome
  12. 98 Percent Oppose the bill in Texas by paulsnx2 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I know that U.S. Senator John Cornyn doesn't read Slashdot, but hey! it is interesting...

    Nation: 90 percent oppose.
    Texas: 98 oppose.

      https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/112/s968/report#nation

  13. Who likes/dislikes the PROTECT IP act? by paulsnx2 · · Score: 5, Informative

    ORGS ENDORSING
    Graphic Artists Guild
    Independent Film & Television Alliance
    Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA)

    ORGS OPPOSING
    American Association of Law Libraries
    American Library Association
    Association of Research Libraries
    Center for Democracy and Technology
    Demand Progress
    Don't Censor the Net!
    Fractured Atlas
    Public Knowledge
    Reporters Without Borders

    https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/112/s968/report#nation

  14. It doesn't matter by kurt555gs · · Score: 4, Funny

    You can have all the letters you want. You can roll sick kids in wheel chairs in to give speeches. If you didn't pay for the law, you don't get it's benefits. That's the way our new corporatist free enterprise system works.

    What do you expect for free?

    If you want a law, you hire a lobbyist. They will give you a quote, just like getting your driveway seal coated. You pay. You get what you want.

    Who do you think your congressmen and senators are working for anyway? You? Not likely.

    --
    * Carthago Delenda Est *
    1. Re:It doesn't matter by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      Dude (or Dudette), let you not forget that unions, who, for exampe, pushed for Obama care and now have promptly petitioned to not be included in the provisions foisted upon everyone else.

      Lobbyists are the problem. ALL Lobbyists.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  15. Constitution? by currently_awake · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I believe there is a section of the US constitution that prohibits punishing people without a trial. I realize that's a depreciated api but it's still worth noting that prior versions of us gov allowed such functions.

  16. First target: Wikileaks by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 2

    One of the most obvious targets of this kind of "copyright protection", applied to political speech, is Wikileaks. In many cases, the document owners did not consent for those documents to be published, so under the strictest interpretations of copyright law, without the political exceptions applied, they've already had their contribution funds siezed indefinitely by the relevant credit agencies. This would be just another spike in their destruction, much to the pleasure of corporate or government organizations whose secrets are exposed there.