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Cisco Helps China Keep an Eye On Its Citizens

Posted by Soulskill on from the every-step-you-take dept.

doperative writes "Western companies including Cisco Systems Inc. are poised to help build an ambitious new surveillance project in China — a citywide network of as many as 500,000 cameras that officials say will prevent crime but that human-rights advocates warn could target political dissent. An examination of the Peaceful Chongqing project by The Wall Street Journal shows Cisco is expected to supply networking equipment that is essential to operating large and complicated surveillance systems, according to people familiar with the deal."

19 of 121 comments (clear)

  1. So who are the British government's suppliers? by John+Hasler · · Score: 3, Interesting

    n/t

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    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  2. Same Old Cisco by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In 2008 it was revealed that The Great Firewall of China was just a huge opportunity to them to sell more routers. In May, Falun Gong sued them. Even shareholders have been uneasy with Cisco's fervent complacency and complete lack of human rights doctrine. I think as far back as 2004 we've discussed the Amnesty report naming Cisco.

    I think this is just more of the same. They sold China the equipment for the great firewall and you are surprised that Cisco is chomping at the bit for the next big project? The only headline newsworthy enough would be if Cisco refused to make a buck on the grounds that their product will obviously be used to repress peaceful foreign citizens or keep 1/6 of the world's population censored.

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    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Same Old Cisco by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In the spirit of idle curiousity, I have to wonder if Cisco is purely an amoral, sociopathic, profit-seeking entity, and just doesn't give a fuck, or whether their higher-ups actually get the warm and fuzzies from the fact that they are on the leading edge of Benthamite dystopia technology?

      They could, certainly, just be swallowing their doubts and keeping an eye on the bottom line; but nothing says that the people within the corporation are having to battle pangs of conscience in order to do what is profitable.

    2. Re:Same Old Cisco by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ... is purely an amoral, sociopathic, profit-seeking entity, and just doesn't give a fuck,

      Well, that's the sociological description of a corporation: legally, a sociopathic person.

      Which then brings up another question - if one has to conform to the norms of said corporation, does that make one a sociopath?

      For example, if you're working for a large corporation that makes a product that harms the public and you are the one who denies that there is anything wrong or you are a scientist that has to come up with "data" that refutes others findings of said harm, doesn't that make you a sociopath too?

      Or just to "fit in" with said sociopathic corporation makes you a sociopath?

      Which makes all of Cisco's employees sociopaths?

    3. Re:Same Old Cisco by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 2

      And in the end, it really doesn't matter, publicly traded corporations are by definition amoral, sociopathic, profit-only-seeking entities. Because, of course, if they WEREN'T, they "could be" sued by their shareholders for not being amorally sociopathic enough. So the greedy assholes at the top of the corporation have all the moral cover they need to do anything they want which isn't demonstrably illegal - because if they don't do it, someone else (another amoral sociopathic corporation) will. The only place the kind of managerial hand-wringing you're suggesting comes into play is in puff-piece business interview journalism, one step removed from a press release. Here in the States, we've created a society where the only first-class citizens (the corporations and the very wealthy) are by definition sociopaths.

    4. Re:Same Old Cisco by John+Hasler · · Score: 2

      And, of course, corporations, being abstractions, don't do anything. Their directors, officers, and employees do.

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      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    5. Re:Same Old Cisco by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      That is certainly the correct model for Cisco Systems, Inc.(which is why I classified my question as "idle curiosity"). I'm just curious, though, are the relevant Ciscolings, as they go about their dirty work, trying to comfort themselves or patting themselves on the back? Is their little internal monologue going through some sort of "Well, if we don't, Alcatel will..." rationalization? Is somebody growing awkwardly tumescent in their corner office at the 'utopian' vision of discipline and social order that he is blessed to be a part of?

      It doesn't seem likely to have much effect, one way or the other, in terms of how Cisco behaves, I just really want to know how the people who actually make 'Cisco' do things feel about what their incorporated hive organism is up to...

  3. Money! by Finallyjoined!!! · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Stuff the ideals, stuff the responsibility, stuff the "doing the right thing", we want money & we don't care how we get it.
    Bah!

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    If I had an Ass, I'd call it Fanny Bottom, then I could slap my Ass; Fanny Bottom, on the Arse.
  4. cisco by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    The human oppression network

  5. You people are such hypocrites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I love how people are bitching about Cisco on this deal all while using their Apple products assembled in China, wearing their name brand clothing made in China, and sitting comfortably in their chair made in China.

    If you want Cisco to be so idealistic, why don't some of you people do the same and boycott products made in China too? Yeah, didn't think so.

    I just pwned you all.

    1. Re:You people are such hypocrites by hedwards · · Score: 2

      Probably because it's nearly impossible to find goods that are completely without ties to China. Thanks to the labeling requirements, you can think you're buying American and really be paying for most of the work to be done in some undisclosed nation.

  6. Nothing to see here.... by compucomp2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    just more American/Western hypocrisy from Slashdot. Typical. The British have done the same thing in their cities, and it's not like America is totally averse to the idea (red light cameras, anyone?) Clearly, it's evil and oppressive just because China does it and China refuses to knuckle under to Western imperialism.

    1. Re:Nothing to see here.... by swb · · Score: 2

      So do you work for the Chinese Propaganda Ministry in its Countering Anti-Chinese Rhetoric in Western Blogs department, or do you just freelance for fun?

      What part of the arrest and detention of Ai Weiwei was the result of Western Imperialism or the defense of China?

      No, the subject is not off-topic, as the problem with Chinese use of surveillance technology isn't the surveillance per se (although it is a problem in the West and in China), it's the use of that technology to buttress a ONE PARTY STATE that actively runs a POLITICAL GULAG and ARRESTS, IMPRISONS AND EXECUTES its citizens for threatening the hegemony of the COMMUNIST PARTY.

  7. Not a big deal by WindBourne · · Score: 2

    Cisco IS a chinese company. Their top ppl are Americans, but all of the manufacturing is done in CHina. So, this is just China spying on Chinese.

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    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  8. Re:I dont see the story by hedwards · · Score: 2

    That's perfectly legal and not at all dodgy, however providing the technology for an oppressive regime to spy on its citizens is definitely dodgy by any reasonable standard.

  9. Re:I dont see the story by chemicaldave · · Score: 2

    And as a publicly traded company, Cisco has an (unofficial) obligation to operate abroad as it would at home. US Citizens cannot go abroad and commit crimes legal in one country that are illegal in the US, so why should we allow companies to do the same?

  10. Why Cisco, when they have Huawei? by haruchai · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Isn't Huawei up to the task of network surveillance or are the Chinese looking for more tech to steal?

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    Pain is merely failure leaving the body
  11. Re:I dont see the story by Osgeld · · Score: 2

    so cameras that spy on US citizens is ok, but cameras that spy on china citizens is dodgy...

    thanks for clearing that double standard up

  12. Re:I dont see the story by sgt_doom · · Score: 2
    "And as a publicly traded company, Cisco has an obligation to make as much money as they can for their shareholders."

    Oh...give it a rest already, David Brooks clown clone. That's the same exact argument members of Hitler's Third Reich gave for their humans-into-ovens mandate. No corporation is obligated to support dictators and totalitarian governments, whether in th USA or in China, etc.