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WebOS Chief: Don't Fret Over TouchPad Reviews
Fudge Factor 3000 writes "HP released their much trumpeted enterprise tablet, TouchPad, last week. This device was also the first to showcase WebOS in a tablet. The tablet received several harsh reviews, though some stated that the OS showed potential. Most of the criticism surrounded the sluggish software and the lack of apps. As reported by CNET, WebOS chief Jon Rubenstein rallies his troops by comparing the WebOS tablet's debut to that of Mac OS X, which also struggled early on. However, it is not entirely clear if the comparison is appropriate, since WebOS has existed since 2009, and OS X had the ability to run most classic OS 9 apps during the transition period. Nevertheless, one can certainly argue that the situation is similar in spirit."
Another reader tips a related article which suggests that — for better or worse — Apple has succeeded in defining what a tablet should be, making it difficult for competitors to get a foothold in the market.
What's even more ironic is that this is true despite the various ways that Apple has chosen to cripple the iPad. All they need to do is make something iPad-like that isn't crippled, and the people who want an iPad that isn't crippled will buy it. (I have an iPad and like it, but the fact that I can't do shortcuts on the keyboard and can't run an interpreter on it or fork subprocesses means that it is much less useful to me than it could be.)
Having the largest marketshare isn't really the legal definition of a monopoly. Apple's marketshare must be so dominant and controlling that (1) they can set whatever prices they wanted and (2) customers have no suitable alternatives as the barrier to entry is too high. Well given that many of their competitors can release products (some of them cheaper/some more expensive) is really enough to fend off any monopoly charges. The fact that the competing products have mostly sucked so far isn't really on Apple but on their competitors' inadequacies. After that Apple must be shown to somehow curtail competition through the use of their monopoly. Having 90+% marketshare wasn't the problem with MS and Windows. It was their dealings with OEMs and partners to harm Netscape and Sun that was why MS was convicted.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
I don't think WebOS is going to end up succeeding, but I am going to give HP some credit for at least trying to do more than just ship whatever Microsoft hands them.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
given that many of their competitors can release products (some of them cheaper/some more expensive) is really enough to fend off any monopoly charges
When Microsoft was tried for abusing their monopoly, other vendors were releasing OSes and browsers. Nonetheless, they were found to have a monopoly. The direction for abuse would be threats against App Developers directed towards other mobile platforms.
The fact that the competing products have mostly sucked so far isn't really on Apple but on their competitors' inadequacies.
No argument there.
After that Apple must be shown to somehow curtail competition through the use of their monopoly. Having 90+% marketshare wasn't the problem with MS and Windows. It was their dealings with OEMs and partners to harm Netscape and Sun that was why MS was convicted.
Right, and it's much easier to do so when you control a huge percentage of the mobile space. Again, my post was wondering if Apple would be able to resist that temptation.
When Mac OS X was released, Mac OS 9 still worked. It took until 10.3 or 10.4 before Mac OS X was used extensively, if I remember correctly.
It takes around 4 years for an OS to develop, and another 2 to fully bake. The iPad got an early start, since it's mostly the same as the iPhone. WebOS lost a year due to the acquisition.
They need to keep iterating. The embedded market is huge, and can afford to wait. Apple will never embed iOS, and Android has licensing issues vis-a-vis Microsoft. That leaves the embedded market to...HP?
WebOS, when implemented properly, is a better system than Android - Just Type and card-based multitasking are my favorite features. The problem is that hardware so far has been either plain bad (Pre, Pre2), unreleased until some far-future date (Pre3), or weird and niche (Veer.) I haven't had a chance to use a TouchPad yet, so I can't comment, but the problem is not the software.
Also, the amount that Slashdot users seem to love the idea of an Android monoculture is vaguely disturbing.
Actually, from the reviews of the TouchPad, it sounds like the problem is the software. Random slowdowns and gradual slowdown without reboots, even on their top-of-the-line TouchPad, all promised to be fixed with a future update.
What the problem is not is the user interface. Their conception of mobile multitasking is truly a thing of beauty, and I dearly wish Google and Apple would rip them off like RIM did.
HP has the same problem as Nokia and RIM. Company execs aren't putting enough resources into their new OS's to get things moving.
Nokia had a good thing started with Maemo/Meego. Just look at the recent N950, N9 reviews by Engadget and others (
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/21/nokia-n9-first-hands-on/ ; http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/30/nokias-n950-demos-meego-harmattan-in-marathon-video/ ). A great start/ideas, but they didn't put enough of their not insubstantial resources behind it to get it developed quickly. They gave developers a mixed message, which had a lot of them sitting back waiting to see if there was going to be full commitment by the company before joining in.
Result, the new OS floundered from lack of backing, and they ended up turning to Microsoft.
RIM had been giving the developers the same mixed message about where they are headed. QNX could be an awesome phone OS. Frankly, I'm not sure why someone wasn't putting it on phones years ago. Will it succeed? If it does, it will be despite the big brass's ambivalent attitude.
And now we have HP, which bought a great little OS in WebOS from Palm, that just didn't have the money to dig themselves out of the hole they let themselves get into.
HP's administration said they were going to "double down on WebOS." Their new CEO says they are going to "be cooler than apple". He's also said they were going to avoid the same mistakes made in the past and that they would now "ship products within weeks of announcement"".
HP keeps claiming they have 'incredible scale' and vast resources to make WebOS a success. But since the purchase of Palm, they haven't put their money where their mouth is.
What have they done with those vast resources?
They let the bulk of the creative talent from Palm, the folks who had all the great ideas that make WebOS the induitive OS that it is, leave to go to Apple, Google, or anywhere but HP.
They've put out the Veer, which is basically a smaller version of the original pre, with slightly upgraded hardware.
They have essentially converted a tablet that they were originally going to have run a MS OS. Their Touchpad is bulkier, heavier, and has slower hardware than the competition. And the OS is laggy.
The 'Cool thing' about the Touchpad was that it is supposed to synch with their(new) phones, (Veer, and Pre3). The veer is selling terribly because it's too tiny for a smartphone.
And the Pre3? The Pre3 was announced in February. It's going to ship (in the U.S.) in the Fall. With specs that are way outclassed by phones already released with Android, and facing a likely new iPhone in the fall, as well as some insanely better hardware in the Galaxy S2.
Not much to show for HPs vaunted vast resources.
And then there's customer service...
Original Pre owners were strung along for many months by HP, who told them their Pre phones would be upgraded to WebOS version 2.x and finally get FLASH, that was promised to them 2 years ago when the phone first went on sale. Then at the last minute, folks found out (via twitter, not even a real press release) that that wasn't going to happen.
Then they said they'd do something to 'make things right' to the WebOS users. What did they do finally? Their marketing guys attempted to upsell those folks by giving them a $50 coupon for the touchpad. But only if they got the high end 32MB version. And only if they did it within 30 days of the notice.
Not timely, not cool HP.
I'm afraid WebOS is fated to go the way of BeOS. O
When has Apple not abused their position as the 800-pound gorilla on the block?
When did that happen? According the the commenters here on Slashdot, Apple's marketshare is only 3%!
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
The problem is, it isn't a computer. It's a giant smartphone minus the phone.
I don't have a problem with iOS. It seems to do what it does well. What I have a problem with are people (possibly not even Apple) trying to proclaim that iOS is some super productive computer operating system. "See, you just install all these apps, buy a keyboard, subscribe to a cloud service and modify your expectations, and it's nearly as good as a netbook!"
The one that is only coming out through the appstore?
Think about that for a while.
OH MY GOD, THEY ARE USING THEIR STORE TO SELL THEIR OS!!!
Seriously, they are moving all their software to the Mac App Store. This is a sign to you that they are about to shitcan a product, or move it to a "Pro" line? Please, explain your logic.
The Microsoft-of-the-90s comparisons are overblown. Microsoft didn't get slapped by the antitrust police for being successful. They got punished (weakly) for a series of dick moves against their competitors and even their own OEM "partners". They used their products' power with consumers to drive deeply unfair deals with the OEMs to prevent other products from even being offered.
The only way that Apple could so something similar would be to prevent retail outlets selling Apple gear from selling any competitor's product. There are pretty strict rules about that sort of thing, and (so far) Apple hasn't broken them.
sheep.horse - does not contain information on sheep or horses.
HP are now competing against an entrenched market leader at a similar price point and a huge application library. Unless they can offer lower cost, higher performance, smaller size, better battery life or some other "hook", they're boned.
The app store is an awesome lock-in for apple. All the apps purchased are not transferrable to a non-apple device. Unless they can give me a compelling reason to ditch all of the apps I have purchased on my other i-devices, its going to be a fucking hard sell to get me to buy any tablet other than an ipad.
I don't own one yet (doesn't do anything for my usage patterns), but if i was in the market, it would be a no-brainer.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Congrats on the superb UI and interesting os. We need real alternatives to Apple and webos is certainly light years ahead of Android and ahead of iOS in some areas. I use iOS but love the way webos has chosen a different direction in both UI and use of HTML, and the idea of cards is great.
As a developer I'd say I'm hesitant about supporting the plaform purely because of the political calculus - will the suits at hp stand behind this os for long enough to build a real ecosystem, and will they resist the strong pressure from their largest partner ms to kill this once it becomes popular? Unfortunately I don't have confidence that they will do the right thing, and strangely without hp backing it I would be a lot more confident about webos.