DOT Exempts Maker of 'Flying Car' From Road Vehicle Safety Rules

Stirfry192 writes with news that Terrafugia, makers of a vehicle alternately called a 'flying car' or 'roadable aircraft,' have been granted a three-year exemption to federal motor vehicle safety rules in order to foster further development and innovation. "The DOT granted the three-year 'hardship' exemption because it bought the argument from Terrafugia that its attempt to comply with DOT regulations at the same time as Federal Aviation Administration rules would be prohibitively expensive. Terrafugia had argued that an exemption would allow it more time to research more appropriate solutions to the requirements at the same time as making the flying car a feasible project. The company, an MIT spin-off located in Woburn, Mass. intends to use motor-cycle tires and rims instead of tires usually used for regular cars. The purpose is to minimize the weight of the craft."

Comments

Bad Precedent

[retroworks]

Next thing you know, flying carseats will be exempted. This is a slippery slope.

Re:Bad Precedent

[vlm]

Could be good. Maybe they might pay enough attention to make national rules for the inspection of electric vehicles. I live in PA, ... when he told me, he literally makes up the rules.

Move to a better state. In WI, you have to prove the car can keep up with traffic aka is not a low speed vehicle like a tractor, by exceeding 35 MPH or so in a straight line, and then prove your brakes work by going from 60 to 0 in less than X feet where X is frankly not terribly impressive (something like 250 feet? Even a SUV can do that). Also if your chassis, the VIN of your vehicle, is newer than 1996 and you live in an emissions testing county you have to have a visual inspection every two years to prove there's no IC engine in the car. They have no concern if you tow a trailer with a completely non-emissions controlled gas generator on it, they only care about the car itself.

I have not checked the rules in some years, but this is how it was a decade or so ago. Exactly the same (non-emission) rules for any kit or custom car, not just electric. Can you keep up with traffic, can you stop safely, and can you not vomit pollution out the tailpipe?

Convincing your car insurance company to insure you, you're legally required to buy, they are not legally required to sell, thats a whole nother ball game. I suspect if anyone successfully starts selling electric cars, GM/Ford/etc will buy the car insurance companies with instructions to never insure an electric car.

Re:Bad Precedent

[Bucc5062]

I use to live in that state. I called it legalized extortion. On my last shakedown...erm...I mean inspection before I moved I wanted to ask the "mechanic" for the official inspection book. On the day I dropped the car off I reconsidered citing the fact that within a month I'd be living in another state.

For the record, you can find the "official" requirements here. Based on one clause I'd have to now put out $700+ to fix a very minor leak on the power steering that I currently maintain by checking fluids. One day it will be fixed, but on my timing, not the state. What was so stupid about PA was that they a lot of NJ and DE cars driving around with much more lax requirements. Safety my ass.

Re:Bad Precedent

[qwijibo]

I suspect that in general, the people who have the time and money to build kit/custom cars have the money to put up a bond to self-insure.

I doubt any auto maker is big enough to lock electric cars out of the market by controlling insurance companies. There will always be someone who is willing to insure electric cars if there are enough of them on the road to make it profitable. Worst case scenario would be the electric car manufacturer also being the insurer. It may be a headache for early adopters, but the market will work it out.

Why not this too?

[Cornwallis]

NRC Exempts Maker of 'Backyard Reactors' From Nuclear Safety Rules

Mixed Feelings on This

[jonamous]

I think this is really cool but it seems impractical. Aircraft are very expensive to maintain and you'll need a pilot certificate to fly this. It's probably cheaper to have a car and rent a plane (or, depending on the cost of this thing, just buy a used 172). The usable load is very low, as well (hopefully that 330lbs number is in addition to fuel).

I also look at this from the perspective of being a "dual-purpose" vehicle; most of which are mediocre. A common example might be a dual-sport motorcycle. It's not a great motorcycle and it's not a great dirtbike, but it can do both. Just from the looks (wings all folded up, blocking vision out of the rear windows, etc) this is not going to be a practical car. I guess we'll see how good of an airplane it will be. My question is, what problem does this solve? You drive to the airport, unfold the wings, then get out of the car and do your pre-flight? How is that different from getting out of your car and doing your pre-flight on your regular aircraft?

Either way, this seems like a neat invention. I think they'll have trouble selling 200 of these, especially if they are priced similarly to normal small aircraft, but it would be really cool to see this thing in person.

Re:Mixed Feelings on This

[bhtooefr]

Well, part of their problem is that they're actually NOT going for a class that requires a full pilot's license. They're going for the Light Sport Aircraft class (and have had to get exceptions from both the FAA and NHTSA due to that), which has much less stringent requirements for licensing, with the downside that there are more restrictions on when and how you can fly.

Re:Mixed Feelings on This

[sapphire wyvern]

This isn't a flying car. It's a driveable aircraft. I think the main problem it solves is that with a conventional light aircraft, you drive to the airport, pre-flight your aircraft, take off, fly to your destination, land... and then you're stuck. Many light aircraft airports don't have car hire facilities nearby, and they're often some way from any place you actually want to be. With the Terrafugia, you can at least in principal land the thing at an airfield and then drive it to your final destination (eg a hotel or tourist landmark or business or whatever).

On the other hand I'm not sure how much I'd want to drive this thing on the road. Seems like it would be a great way to ruin your airplane. And, furthermore, you'd have to count on there being adequate garaging facilities at your destination; I don't think this vehicle would want to be outside in heavy weather.

Re:Mixed Feelings on This

[GooberToo]

Before someone chimes in with the "don't have to pay for hanger space" argument, if you can't afford hanger space then you'll never afford the annual inspection labor and parts, so its all kinda irrelevant.

Not true at all. At some airports, hangar fees can be directly comparable to the price of the aircraft, assuming your aircraft isn't new. Your argument makes as much sense as saying, if you can't afford to buy two cars for yourself, you shouldn't bother to buy one.

Hangar prices vary dramatically from area to area and especially airport to airport. A modest hanger which costs $75/mo at one place may cost $250/mo, and up, at another.

Re:Mixed Feelings on This

[drinkypoo]

People leave planes outside through all kinds of nasty weather when they can't afford hangars or none are available; they strap them down to ground cleats and the process is called a tie-down. My local muni airport has both hangars and tie-downs available. Since this thing folds up into a car, though, it seems like it would be easy to cover. If you live near the airport then this means you don't need a hangar, just keep the thing at your house, covered. Lots of richie rich mofos live near airstrips. There's several in this county...

Re:Mixed Feelings on This

[Deadstick]

Yes, you can leave an airplane outside in moderately bad weather...on an airport. Did you ever leave one in a parking lot?

Look at the Terrafugia in the folded-up mode. Everything on its periphery is an aerodynamic surface of one kind or another, and by automotive standards these are absurdly fragile. One parking-lot ding will ground your quarter-million-dollar machine until it's been worked over by an aircraft repair shop at aircraft repair prices.

rj

Re:Que

[biodata]

Tambien: que?

Re:The Windshield

[SniperJoe]

Oh, I don't doubt that one bit. I've seen more than my fair share of idiots on the road (here in Atlanta as well as when I used to live in South Florida). I'm inclined to agree that the reasons you stated above point to why flying cars just won't happen (outside of complete AI control) and that pilots will tend to avoid mediocre hybrids. I still want to buy a gyrocopter though. Commuting was going to be my ticket to justify it, but alas, it shall have to wait.

Re:Motorcycle Wheels

[sunderland56]

Sidecars constructed for performance use automobile wheels and tyres, both for the lateral loading issue and also to put more rubber on the road (motorcycle tyres have a round profile, and put much less rubber on the road than even an economy car tyre).

Terrafugia is missing an idea here - build the "car" with only three wheels, and submit it to DOT as a motorcycle, not a car. Then they can continue to use the bike tyres and wheels, while cutting the cost of running the vehicle (in many states, registering a motorcycle costs much less than a car).

This idea is probably DOA..

[whizbang77045]

"Flying cars" or "roadable aircraft" have been designed and built many times in the past. There's always a lot of enthusiasm during the design phase, when public demonstrations are made, and colorful brochures are handed out. When it comes to actually buying one, though, the public, both flying and non-flying, always stay away in droves. I'd be very surprised if this one is any different.

As others have pointed out, there are a lot of problems, both regulatory and practical, that make this a costly and difficult ventures. Save your money; buy something really practical, like a flying saucer that works only in ground effect.

Re:Want to know where your flying car is?

[brian0918]

making your "reason" complete and utter bullshit and exposing you as a total fucktard.

Sorry, not the case. Re-read my post - I said "why you won't have a flying car by 2015". Given that this company is just now getting exemption, there is absolutely no way they will have it developed to the point of production in 4 years. Had the regulations not existed in the first place, there would likely have been multiple competitors in the market by now.

every aspect of the reality of a flying car is beyond absurd

That's the entrepreneurial spirit that makes America so great!....

safety when the zombies come

[Blymie]

I bet there is another angle for this too.

An aircraft that a semi-well off person can keep, in the same line as a bomb shelter.

Tons of survival nuts would love to have a vehicle that, during a disaster of any sort, only needs a long enough stretch of space nearby to get them airborne. If WWIII, zombies, aliens, or whatever might scare the paranoid is coming, few people are going to care whether they take off from a well mowed lawn, or a straight stretch of nearby road. Regulations be damned, they'll be airborne.

Many of these events don't leave enough time for someone to even get to an airport. However, a plane in your garage?

Re:safety when the zombies come

[Lumpy]

Most survival nuts will be dead in 90 to 120 days. I have not met ONE survival nut that has any clue at all about survival beyond a 90 day window. None have any clue about farming, animal husbandry, animal processing, engineering, building, Finding water or digging a well, hell only 2 I have talked to out of the 200 I chatted with about a research project even had a clue how to build a outhouse correctly.

99% of all "survivalists" are just complete ravenous idiots looking for an excuse to have more guns and a big pickup truck that looks like mad max would own it.

Plus they are so stupid they buy their MRE's yet there are plenty of foodstuffs you can package right at home that can have a 10+ year shelf life if done right. Technology from the pioneer days for food and grain preservation... whole oats in todays' vac sealed bags and then put into a 5 gallon pail flooded with nitrogen (easy to get as most idiots buy into the nitrogen in tires gag) will last in a cool corner of the basement for well over 20 years for just ONE example.

Most Survivalists are simply redneck enthusiasts. there are only a handful of REAL survivalists out there, and those guys don't have a bug out cabin... they have a bug out farm, already planted with fruit trees and other edibles already mature and producing fruit. (3-7 years for a fruit tree to grow from planting to producing, you need them planted and producing NOW) as well as a good large root cellar and other important things. Smartest guys have chickens already on the property and are practicing the art of animal processing and care. Let alone how to grow hedgerows to hide your farm and act as a natural defense border. Or things like ammunition reloading or even bullet forming.

Nope, it's more fun to polish your AR-50 in the garage and talk BS to your buddies than it is to run a working far every weekend for you to escape to and actually have a chance of survival.... THAT is what the American survivalist is.

Yes I did a 3 year research project for a gaming company about survivalists, read everything out there, talked to a lot of them one on one about their "plan" and what skills they think are the most important. the biggest thing that stood out, most have not planned past 30 days let alone 120-360 days. only the rare one has planned for 5+ years. What really get's me is many actually think they will find gasoline for a long time afterwards easily for their 5mpg truck. and most don't have reloading supplies even accounted for, they also think the ammo they have is enough for the rest of their lives.

Re:safety when the zombies come

[Lumpy]

Actually yes.

If you are doing any kind of planning then step 1 is to learn advanced first aid. IF you are planning for 72 hours or 20 years you need to know how to do things to keep yourself and others with you alive. Wound cleaning basics, and do you know how to splint a broken finger correctly? how about set a broken bone? how to sew stitches? etc.... Most survivalists think a camping 1st aid box is enough and it's not, you need knowledge as well.

Food is great, but the guys that are stocked up on jerky will die of dehydration first. Protein requires water to process in your body. learn about nutrition and what is needed to survive well, just buying boxes of MRE's is not the answer. Water filtration and purification. learn how to do it and why, amoebic dysentery is a miserable way to die. Education is more important than a special survival packet of food.

Also be realistic, are you going to flee the zombies across fields and valleys so you need a Hummer H1 with gun turret and climbing gear? or will a honda civic work because you will be on roads and can make it 400 miles on 10 gallons of gas. 2 jerry cans holding 5 gallons each will get that civic 800 miles without having to find more fuel. the guy in the hummer will not be 100 miles out without having to go searching. and yes a civic with a small trailer will carry more than the hummer a lot farther. middle of the road choice if you really thing a 4X4 is needed (unless the zombies eat the roads it will not be) then a small one that is common is the best choice.

I wont get into guns, most of the nuts think they need to go crazy and hold off an army.. then I hope you, your spouse and children all go to the shooting range monthly and also learn to field strip and clean your guns. The ones that go to this part of it are the ones that are over the edge and already sociopaths. I can see at least 2 rifles for hunting both identical for parts and using the most common ammo on the planet.

A lot of this is simple, not much "special" anything is needed. what IS needed is knowledge and experience. know how to tie knots, know how to identify edible plants, know first aid, know how to fix things, etc.... knowledge is the MOST IMPORTANT part of it all. learn how to gut a deer, learn how to gut a duck, learn how to cook it over a campfire. Learn how to completely repair your vehicle, your guns, your supplies, (you know how to sew right?) etc.....

education is it. Buy books on the subject, books on homesteading from the 50's, books on backwoods camping first aid, books on first aid, take classes, etc...

Airworthiness after a ding?

[OzPeter]

If the Terrafugia gets off the ground, what happens when you get in a minor fender-bender on the road? Will the FAA have to send an inspector to validate the airworthiness of the plane? Or will you get pilots saying - "yeah it looks OK to fly".

Re:Airworthiness after a ding?

[Deadstick]

No FAA inspection will be needed: after a fender-bender; this thing will not be airworthy, period. ANY ground impact will damage one or more aerodynamic surfaces. You don't call the FAA: you pay an FAA-licensed aircraft mechanic to fix it, and then you pay an FAA-licensed airframe inspector to certify the repair. You might want to look up the hourly rates those people charge...

rj

Re:Effects of moving on families

[vlm]

You recommend moving to a better state to escape oppressive statutes. In such a case, what's the best practice to find a job for both oneself and one's spouse or life partner, or to make sure that one's elderly parents are taken care of?

Sounds like you live out west where you need a jetliner to go from one state to another. He lives out east where there are states smaller than the midwestern county I live in, I believe Rhode Island could easily fit in my county with room to spare.

A crude analogy is on the east cost, state to state is a couple hours walk, in the upper midwest heartland state to state is a couple hours drive, and in the west and southwest state to state is an hours flight.

So if you live out west, yeah that idea is a problem. Where I live it means a "long" commute but no big deal. Where he lives, if it were not for collapsing infrastructure and high traffic, it would be considered a short commute.