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Exploiting the iPad's Glowing Keyboard

nonprofiteer writes "Earlier this week, a South African security researcher released shoulderPad, an app that's designed to auto-snoop on iPad users' passwords by watching their touchscreen keyboards. When a user types on an iPad's touchscreen, each key glows blue for a fraction of a second after it's struck, a helpful bit of feedback for any virtual keyboard. ShoulderPad's image recognition algorithms, based on Open CV's open source image recognition software, look for that flash of blue. 'At any distance, if the blue is distinguishable, shoulderPad can detect that keystroke,' says Meer."

127 comments

  1. Oh great by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

    One more thing to warn my informatics students about.

    1. Re:Oh great by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      But this is an old technique, you should have warned them about it anyway. Ie, someone looking over shoulder at the ATM to get PIN number, or watching you obliquely as you type a password, or telescopes watching your screen from the next building (or even picking up the noise from a CRT and decoding that, which has been done).

    2. Re:Oh great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I always enter my pin number when I go to an atm machine.

    3. Re:Oh great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ideally GP should have used "ATM machine" in the same post, but this will have to do.

    4. Re:Oh great by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      Whoosh!

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    5. Re:Oh great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey now, if he wants to warn his students that there's someone looking over their shoulder trying to get their PIN number at the ATM machine, or that someone's going to pick up the noise from his CRT tube, that's his business. Someone has to work in the department of redundancy department, after all.

    6. Re:Oh great by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      (Score:-1, Redundant)

      I'm not sure if this is ironic or oddly appropriate.

    7. Re:Oh great by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      I've warned them about shoulder surfing, but I wasn't paranoid enough.

    8. Re:Oh great by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      I think the whooshing sound went whoosh!

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    9. Re:Oh great by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      The parent poster made a joke.

      Exhibit A:

      I always enter my pin number when I go to an atm machine.

      Notice how he is exaggerating the fact that the word "pin" already has "number" in it by repeating the error with "atm," which already has "machine" in it.

      Your response seemed to imply that he didn't know this by pointing it out expressly.

                -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
  2. thisius whaIUNTJA,JMAIERUYHNEEEDTO knoiw by For+a+Free+Internet · · Score: 3, Funny

    Wewi naotallowkitkjnm0potkje nitoine notone ever yiyu betcha! goatsexunhj,q *N& and fuuuuuuuuuuuc83yh89ynkHPHPHPH penus dofrg!!!!!!!!!!!!

    --
    UNITE with the Campaign for a Free Internet because today, our future begins with tomorrow!
    1. Re:thisius whaIUNTJA,JMAIERUYHNEEEDTO knoiw by monkyyy · · Score: 0

      downmod me for commenting on someone downmodded :D

      --
      warning pointless sig
    2. Re:thisius whaIUNTJA,JMAIERUYHNEEEDTO knoiw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing funny at all about this. Stupid ass slashfags.

  3. Security Enhancement by PPH · · Score: 4, Funny

    Enable the iPad camera and feed a video window on the login screen so you can see who's looking over your shoulder.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:Security Enhancement by Kenja · · Score: 5, Funny

      Its some suspicious looking guy! Man is he ugly, its almost as if.... oh, its me.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    2. Re:Security Enhancement by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 0

      Your fancy-schmancy facial-recognition algorithms won't detect your potential mugger.

      Especially at nighttime.

    3. Re:Security Enhancement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...because we know all potential muggers are black... and that all algorithms are the same as HP's...

    4. Re:Security Enhancement by Racemaniac · · Score: 1

      And all jokes have to be analyzed and have all their flaws explained

    5. Re:Security Enhancement by FhnuZoag · · Score: 1

      Terrible racist ones? Sure.

    6. Re:Security Enhancement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't work if they were at a steep angle from the side that can still see the screen, but be out of camera range.

  4. Incredibly not amazing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    This is like a hello world of opencv programs...color blob detection. Unless you're stealing shitloads of passwords...which probably isn't the case...you could just as easily watch the slowed down video. He's not even extracting what keys they're typing!?

    1. Re:Incredibly not amazing... by scdeimos · · Score: 1

      Yes he is. Keep an eye on the top-left corner of the video while the program's running.

  5. It's not even that hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    To make it easier to catch typos, secure text fields on iOS persistently display the most recent character typed (and hide it when you type the next one). If you're already recording video of the iPad screen, why not just look for that?

    1. Re:It's not even that hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need a lot more details to do this

    2. Re:It's not even that hard by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1

      It's presumably a lot easier to get some part of the reflected glow of the screen than it is to get a good video feed of the password field. Especially if you're trying to go unnoticed.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    3. Re:It's not even that hard by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      On an Android tablet, that feature can be turned off (I assume it's the same on an iPad).

    4. Re:It's not even that hard by gnapster · · Score: 1

      "Yes, of course Angry Birds is easier to play when the camera's pointing at your iPad. What? Don't be ridiculous! I'm not watching you type in your password, I'm playing Angry Birds. The nerve!"

    5. Re:It's not even that hard by grumbel · · Score: 2

      What good would the reflected glow do? That only tells you that a key got pressed, not which one. The app in question here seems rather trivial, all it does is detect which key was pressed by looking for the blue highlight on the key, it still needs to have a completely free view onto the keyboard to see which key that was and when you have that free a view, you can see the users hand hitting the keys anyway. The only interesting thing seems to be that it is easier to automate the detection of the blue keys then it is detecting if a hand movement was a key-press or not.

    6. Re:It's not even that hard by perpenso · · Score: 1

      It's presumably a lot easier to get some part of the reflected glow of the screen than it is to get a good video feed of the password field. Especially if you're trying to go unnoticed.

      You don't have to look at the password field. There is a much better, larger and more readable alternative. When you press a key an enlarged version of the key momentarily hovers above your finger to give you feedback on what you just pressed. Your finger is covering the smaller lettering on he keyboard and the glow.

    7. Re:It's not even that hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It isn't a persistent display, it also times out after a few seconds of not typing. Which doesn't change the fact that it's easier :)

    8. Re:It's not even that hard by mini+me · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, I'm serious. You can't change the SMS text tone on the iphone,

      Being serious doesn't make it true. Even the iPhone 3G was given the feature quite some time ago.

    9. Re:It's not even that hard by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      My Android phone allows the complete password to be visible when typing (which is convenient, and unless you're in a public space not really insecure to begin with), while by default it will only show the latest letter entered for a few seconds so you can see if it's the right one, hiding it after a few seconds, or when you enter the next character. So very similar to the iPhone.

      I have never seen this as a serious security issue. I'd say it's not exactly worse than looking at someone typing on a physical keyboard.

    10. Re:It's not even that hard by Pieroxy · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Dude, Apple doesn't charge a dime for new OSes.
      The rest is true of course.

    11. Re:It's not even that hard by Pieroxy · · Score: 0

      You can change it, but only between the limited ringtones made available by Apple. You cannot personalize it with your own.

    12. Re:It's not even that hard by rbrausse · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Schneier wrote some time ago about the advantages of visible passwords. One (small) shitstorm later he compiled an interesting pro/con list.

    13. Re:It's not even that hard by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      I can change my SMS tone and I have an iPhone 3G (ie, comparatively ancient) I also have a totally custom ringtone (from TMBG) which I did not have to buy through iTunes or anything.

      Also, Apple charges for iOS updates? Wow. That's news to me! Where did you find that bit of exclusive, new information?

    14. Re:It's not even that hard by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Except for all those other parts that are also untrue. Ie, the part about not being able to change SMS tones. That's what we call in the business as "a lie".

    15. Re:It's not even that hard by Sabriel · · Score: 0

      If you read the full post, it is referring to the fact that you cannot *change* the iphone's SMS tones. You can *select* between the six tones Apple provides, but you cannot *change* any of those tones to one of your own choosing without first jailbreaking the phone.

    16. Re:It's not even that hard by Sabriel · · Score: 1

      I also have an iPhone 3G (3GS if we're being pedantic). So could you tell me how to *change* my SMS tone to one of my own choosing without jailbreaking the phone? Because all mine lets me do is *select* from the six tones that Apple put on the phone.

    17. Re:It's not even that hard by rbrausse · · Score: 1, Informative

      I never owned an iphone but I was curious.

      and WTF, the way to change tones seems to be:

      1. jailbreak the thing
      2. convert your custom tone to AIFF
      3. ssh to the phone
      4. in /system/library/audio/uisounds overwrite the original files with your own file

      *very* convenient, I still can't believe it

    18. Re:It's not even that hard by Rigrig · · Score: 2

      Because determining which part of the keyboard lights up is much easier than OCRing a much smaller character. A video could easily be low-res/blurry enough to make reading that character impossible, while the blue flashes would still be recognizable.

      --
      **TODO** [X] Steal someone elses sig.
    19. Re:It's not even that hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good. Nobody wants to hear your brand new Nickelback or Rebecca Black ringtone. Apple is doing you a favor by not letting your horrible taste in music be immediately known to others!

    20. Re:It's not even that hard by RMingin · · Score: 1

      Wrong. The iPod and iPhone pop up the keys, the iPad only glows them blue for a split second. The only time an app will do that popping keys nonsense on an iPad is if it's not universal, and running in iPhone mode.

      --
      The preceding comment is my own, and in no way construes an opinon of the Emperor of Mankind.
    21. Re:It's not even that hard by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      The character is changed to a dot after a delay or after the next character is typed.

    22. Re:It's not even that hard by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      You're going for the overly semantic argument - you know damn well that the OP was talking about the fact that everyone uses the Tritone sound. You can change it to another sound that is included with the phone, where the dictionary definition is "alter to become something else".

      While you can't swap them for custom tones (unlike the ringtones) you can *change* them between the presets.

    23. Re:It's not even that hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      probably because you don't need a great picture to see a blue "flash" for the key press especially if you can see where the fingers are. you would need a good picture to read the characters as they appear in the field.

    24. Re:It's not even that hard by allo · · Score: 0

      where can i get lion for free?

    25. Re:It's not even that hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i wish i had mod points for you

    26. Re:It's not even that hard by konohitowa · · Score: 1

      I also have an iPhone 3G (3GS if we're being pedantic). So could you tell me how to *change* my SMS tone to one of my own choosing without jailbreaking the phone? Because all mine lets me do is *select* from the six tones that Apple put on the phone.

      The iPhone doesn't even let you *change* times in the alarm application. All they let you do is *select* from a predefined set of times. Crazy.

    27. Re:It's not even that hard by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      Being serious doesn't make it true. Even the iPhone 3G was given the feature quite some time ago.

      Wrong. You can pick between the 6, as I noted before, and iOS5 will allow it, but you currently cannot add new ones without jailbreaking.

      And again, why wasn't it there from the start. You're saying you couldn't even change between those 6 at one point? That's absurd.

    28. Re:It's not even that hard by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      You're going for the overly semantic argument - you know damn well that the OP was talking about the fact that everyone uses the Tritone sound.

      That wasn't what I was talking about actually. If you notice, I wrote

      "You want your iphone to play something besides the 6 included tones for a text message alert?"

      6 preset options is nothing when nearly every other smartphone, and even many dumbphones, your options are infinite.

      Also, Apple charges for iOS updates? Wow. That's news to me! Where did you find that bit of exclusive, new information?

      It does appear I was outdated. They did charge for OS updates at one point, and I was sure I heard that initially iOS4 would cost, but Wiki informs me that as of OS4, apple was no longer charging for updates. I'm not sure if the ipad is included in that or if that too is outdated. But you're right. I maligned apple, they appear to have realized that charging for software updates is abusive, I'm so sorry I assumed that because they had sinned once, they would sin again.

    29. Re:It's not even that hard by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      There's a word here that describe what you're missing: Context.

  6. Not just Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nice twisting of reality here to make a story, reporters. Touchscreen devices of all varieties have been doing this for years. Even PalmOS was inverting the onscreen keys as you pressed them.

    1. Re:Not just Apple by lucm · · Score: 1, Insightful

      > Nice twisting of reality here to make a story, reporters. Touchscreen devices of all varieties have been doing this for years. Even PalmOS was inverting the onscreen keys as you pressed them

      You are the one twisting reality. Good stuff on the iPad = invented by Apple. Bad stuff on the iPad = same problem with all the other products in the universe but the other products are actually worse because they had it before and nobody fixed it.

      This being said, it is a good thing you posted this as AC, otherwise people could have stolen your Slashdot password just by watching you typing it on your iPad.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    2. Re:Not just Apple by EvanED · · Score: 1

      And by contrast, MS has visual feedback disabled on their virtual keyboards on the tablet editions of Windows. (Primarily for convertible tablets... remember those?)

      Bizarro world, huh?

    3. Re:Not just Apple by EvanED · · Score: 1

      MS has visual feedback disabled on their virtual keyboards

      Just for clarification, I meant to say "on password screens". It's off for the login screen and I think anything else the app reports is a password box.

  7. Does not one here have an iPad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This whole story is completely false.

    The iPad keybord is not black, neither does it do a blue glow.

    iOS virtual keyboards have *NEVER* been black. Yes if you Jailbreak you can put any type of skin (as see in the linked article), but the default virtual keyboard is white as in iPhone, iPod touch and iPad.

    1. Re:Does not one here have an iPad? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      This whole story is completely false.

      The iPad keybord is not black, neither does it do a blue glow.

      iOS virtual keyboards have *NEVER* been black. Yes if you Jailbreak you can put any type of skin (as see in the linked article), but the default virtual keyboard is white as in iPhone, iPod touch and iPad.

      Have you looked at the keyboard of the lockscreen with an alphanumeric password? No? Of course not, because you posted this so you can't possibly have.

    2. Re:Does not one here have an iPad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess that black keyboard I enter my password into to unlock my ipad doesn't exist then.

    3. Re:Does not one here have an iPad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me guess, you're an atheist too?

  8. Article and Video is misleading by doomy · · Score: 1

    The iPad keyboard does not look like the one linked in the article, it's Apple grey/white.

    --
    ...free your source and the rest would follow...
    1. Re:Article and Video is misleading by exomondo · · Score: 1

      The iPad keyboard does not look like the one linked in the article, it's Apple grey/white.

      Unless you actually try the situation shown in the article.

    2. Re:Article and Video is misleading by doomy · · Score: 1

      If you meant the non simple passcode entry, then why would anyone even need this App. The black keyboard given on there, actually echo whatever you type up on the empty line above, there is no need to capture keys. What you type is flashed right above in the white row over they keyboard.

      --
      ...free your source and the rest would follow...
    3. Re:Article and Video is misleading by exomondo · · Score: 1

      If you meant the non simple passcode entry, then why would anyone even need this App. The black keyboard given on there, actually echo whatever you type up on the empty line above, there is no need to capture keys. What you type is flashed right above in the white row over they keyboard.

      Do you have an ipad? Did you watch the video in the article? How about you have a look at the video, it shows that both your posts are wrong. Yes the keyboard is that colour and no the text doesn't flash up in the text entry box.

    4. Re:Article and Video is misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try recording that at a distance compared to recording the blue highlights at a distance
      (We will all ignore how your first comment jumped the gun without checking)

    5. Re:Article and Video is misleading by doomy · · Score: 1

      Ah, let me point out what came out bogus to me when I read the PDF.

      The person claims this on page 3:

      We have long realized the danger of having passwords stolen through shoulder surfing attacks which is why it is truly rate to find an application that fails to mask passwords on screen. Even the iDevices (which we examine below) mask passwords by default. We take the fact that password masking is so ubiquitous as the obvious acknowledgement of the shoulder surfing as a viable attack method.

      Wait... This is where I have a problem, they claim that iOS masks the passwords by default and thus they have to use this other compelx method of capturing what keys are pressed. My problem with this video demonstration is that they didn't have to go that far, they just had to capture the password, but they assert it is already masked.

      --
      ...free your source and the rest would follow...
    6. Re:Article and Video is misleading by doomy · · Score: 1

      Yes, I tested it all out, there was no need for this extensive demonstration, as the assertion that password masking is completely hidden by default is incorrect (which is why they did the 2nd method). Their video's password entry does not work as it does on default on my iPad. On mine when I press a key, the key is momentarily shown on the line above before turning into a masked entry.

      --
      ...free your source and the rest would follow...
    7. Re:Article and Video is misleading by exomondo · · Score: 1

      My problem with this video demonstration is that they didn't have to go that far, they just had to capture the password, but they assert it is already masked.

      That's because it is already masked which is what he said, so of course the only way to capture it is to determine what keys were pressed. How else are you going to capture the password?

    8. Re:Article and Video is misleading by doomy · · Score: 1

      No, that's not how it works. If you are observing the iPad, you can easily figure out what is typed by looking at the key that is being pressed, let me demonstrate (see the h). For some reason their iPad is not doing this :) Which is the case for the rest of their experiment.

      --
      ...free your source and the rest would follow...
    9. Re:Article and Video is misleading by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Yes, I tested it all out

      Oh come on, you started by saying the keyboard wasn't black!

      On mine when I press a key, the key is momentarily shown on the line above before turning into a masked entry.

      And you're running what version with what settings?

    10. Re:Article and Video is misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have an iPad 2, I did exactly what the video did and what Doomy says is right, the video seems like it was edited, their is a white box placed where the key pressed should be showing, they lag it up and edit. It's not a very honest video.

    11. Re:Article and Video is misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is what I see too, for about 1 second the key pressed remains, BTW could you tell me where you got that wallpaper? Thanks in advance.

    12. Re:Article and Video is misleading by doomy · · Score: 1

      Come over to here. We are having the same conversation in two branches. I'm on 4.3.3, default settings with non-simple password entry as I said before.

      --
      ...free your source and the rest would follow...
    13. Re:Article and Video is misleading by exomondo · · Score: 1

      No, that's not how it works. If you are observing the iPad, you can easily figure out what is typed by looking at the key that is being pressed, let me demonstrate (see the h). For some reason their iPad is not doing this :) Which is the case for the rest of their experiment.

      And you are just running to the assumption that it is doctored video as opposed to say iOS5?

    14. Re:Article and Video is misleading by exomondo · · Score: 1

      are you running iOS5?

    15. Re:Article and Video is misleading by doomy · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure if the video is doctored or not or if it's iOS5, why would they do an experiment like this on a non-production OS? background for anon

      --
      ...free your source and the rest would follow...
    16. Re:Article and Video is misleading by exomondo · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure if the video is doctored or not or if it's iOS5, why would they do an experiment like this on a non-production OS? background for anon

      Probably because it's the new version of the OS and that even if they introduce this feature of masking the keys completely there is still a vulnerability. Anyway it seems you're just trying to pull this article apart with whatever you can, albiet with no actual facts. First it's the keyboard (incorrect), then the password showing up (which is likely in the next OS version) and also the fact that they state in the article that you can do this over long distances where obviously the spatial position of a blue keyboard flash can be calculated even when the key could not possibly be read.

    17. Re:Article and Video is misleading by doomy · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry are you the person behind this video? Yes, I do like to pull an article apart to see the validity of the claims. As far as I can see, this person's iPad is not behaving as mine does by default. I'm not sure if that's cause he has iOS5.0 as I do not use that. Yes, I admit the keyboard thing was an err on my part, as I was reading his PDF I realized this was about non-simple passcode entry. As far as the password showing up, it doesn't happen on mine (and as others said doesn't happen on their iPad's as well). The letters that show up are huge, it's very very easy to read it off, and they stick around for quite a bit, I could take two screenshots of a given passcode letter before it becomes a mask. I do like what he made, it's cool. But I wonder if he went this far on an assertion that was not completely true (ie. masked passwords cannot be read).

      --
      ...free your source and the rest would follow...
    18. Re:Article and Video is misleading by exomondo · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry are you the person behind this video?

      No, obviously if i was i would be able to say what the version the ipad in the video was running wouldn't i.

      Yes, I do like to pull an article apart to see the validity of the claims.

      But your claims don't seem to actually be refuting the article because you don't have any facts. I personally wouldn't go calling something 'bogus' or their claims 'incorrect' unless my personal experience was actually replicating that of the article, and you certainly cannot say that yours is.

      As far as I can see, this person's iPad is not behaving as mine does by default. I'm not sure if that's cause he has iOS5.0 as I do not use that.

      Your experience is clearly an invalid basis for you to be calling it bogus then isn't it.

      The letters that show up are huge, it's very very easy to read it off

      At what distance?

      But I wonder if he went this far on an assertion that was not completely true (ie. masked passwords cannot be read).

      Or that much more likely he is using the new OS where they have added this fix to prevent people from reading the password directly and he is showing that it may not be enough.

      Personally i think the study is far fetched anyway and could be mostly circumvented if they used the normal keyboard instead, or if you made sure to move around a little as you typed your password.

    19. Re:Article and Video is misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Video is of IOS 4.3+ not 5. As the new version has a message center on that lock screen now.

    20. Re:Article and Video is misleading by doomy · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry you feel that way. Could you show me a screenshot of your iPad with iOS 5 and the same screen (and which beta?). Also It's already been claimed this is iOS 4.3.x above. No offense, but I did my best to show you how this looked on my screen, I liked the study and the little application they made, but the whole thing has holes in it as said above.

      --
      ...free your source and the rest would follow...
    21. Re:Article and Video is misleading by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Video is of IOS 4.3+ not 5. As the new version has a message center on that lock screen now.

      but the message center is only there if you have messages.

    22. Re:Article and Video is misleading by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Could you show me a screenshot of your iPad with iOS 5 and the same screen (and which beta?).

      No, I don't run iOS5, i guess you could find plenty of videos and pictures if you google though.

      Also It's already been claimed this is iOS 4.3.x above.

      Yet the message center is only visible if you have messages, so that claim is baseless too.

      No offense, but I did my best to show you how this looked on my screen, I liked the study and the little application they made, but the whole thing has holes in it as said above.

      What are these 'holes' that you're suggesting it has? Lets assume for a minute that the letters do show up, what difference does that actually make?
      It's still clear your claims of these things being 'bogus' and 'incorrect' are baseless, im all for dissecting these kinds of studies but i would not start making claims unless i actually had some facts to back them up, that's just common sense.

    23. Re:Article and Video is misleading by doomy · · Score: 1

      As I said before, if you read the PDF, he claims he started on this project cause the masked password entry was way too robust by default to exploit. I didn't feel that was the case as my own observation is different from what he claimed. The rest of what he did was excellent, not saying anything about that, I'm just saying his initial assertion that password entry masking was safe on iOS is invalid.

      Can you show a screen of the iOS you run and password entry? I'd rather he showed these videos but it doesn't fit his article.

      --
      ...free your source and the rest would follow...
    24. Re:Article and Video is misleading by exomondo · · Score: 1

      I'm just saying his initial assertion that password entry masking was safe on iOS is invalid.

      But that is obviously flawed given that you don't know what version of iOS he is running and you yourself can't say what the behavior is in iOS5.

      Can you show a screen of the iOS you run and password entry?

      Huh? I already told you I don't run iOS 5, I run 4.3.3 and I see the same thing as you do. So since I don't run iOS 5 I don't know if his assertion regarding password entry masking is correct or not, and neither can you. He even clarified for situations where the masking is not in effect that his solution likely works over greater distances (though he didn't specify what distances).

    25. Re:Article and Video is misleading by doomy · · Score: 1

      The problem with his article is sensationalism. This isn't an issue that's unique to the Apple iPad or iPhone, this application (and the core derivative) would work on any smart phone/tablet device. And.... best of all it can be adapted to work on even physical keyboards. Instead of taking the iOS tangent, he should have stuck with the movie theory and actually showed how this is possible using a physical keyboard (differential lighting on keypress .. or a keyboard with backlight etc). IMO that would be more impressive.

      --
      ...free your source and the rest would follow...
    26. Re:Article and Video is misleading by exomondo · · Score: 1

      The problem with his article is sensationalism. This isn't an issue that's unique to the Apple iPad or iPhone, this application (and the core derivative) would work on any smart phone/tablet device.

      Of course, that's hardly sensationalist though, when the tablet market is vastly dominated by the iPad id say that's the logical choice for a demonstration.

      And.... best of all it can be adapted to work on even physical keyboards.

      Not if they aren't lit, which most aren't. Yet as you say this works on almost all tablet computers assuming you have the keyboard layout.

      Instead of taking the iOS tangent, he should have stuck with the movie theory and actually showed how this is possible using a physical keyboard (differential lighting on keypress .. or a keyboard with backlight etc). IMO that would be more impressive.

      So he shouldn't have done this because something different would have been more impressive...now you're just clutching at straws.

    27. Re:Article and Video is misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesus rude fuck is rude... He was polite to you the whole time, you tried flame-bating him. Even when you agree with what he said you you flamed him at the end. What a jackass. I'm impressed the low ID kept his cool. Also that's iOS 4.3.3 with jailbreak mod that hides crap.

    28. Re:Article and Video is misleading by exomondo · · Score: 0

      Jesus rude fuck is rude... He was polite to you the whole time, you tried flame-bating him. Even when you agree with what he said you you flamed him at the end. What a jackass. I'm impressed the low ID kept his cool. Also that's iOS 4.3.3 with jailbreak mod that hides crap.

      The guy who called the study 'bogus' and 'incorrect' without any facts while making numerous errors on his own part? That's about as much of a jackass as you can be. pfftt...and nice try, pretty obvious you're just posting as AC, lame.

    29. Re:Article and Video is misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually I find it despicable that someone would go to such lengths to discredit an article with such bullshit:

      [x] First the keyboard doesn't look like that, well actually it does
      [x] Next it's 'incorrect' because the letters show up on iOS4.3.x even though the guy could be using iOS5.
      [x] Next it's 'bogus' because he asserted that what he demonstrated was a version of iOS more secure than doomy's. Which of course doesn't affect the outcome, since the more secure version is just as vulnerable.
      [x] Then the whole study has unspecified 'holes' in it, yet no elaborating on what those might be.
      [x] Again, that the password entry is 'invalid', without knowing what version he is using.
      [x] Then it's 'sensationalism' because it's demonstrated on iOS.
      [x] And lastly he shouldn't have done it on iOS because it would have been more impressive if he did it on a real keyboard.

      Doing all that to discredit an article is about as fucking rude as you can possibly get, there is nothing more rude than criticizing something when it's blindingly obvious you have no idea what you're talking about or have any basis for such criticisms. If i did that continually throughout a discussion i would expect people to be rude back.

  9. less useful than plain video and a human. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    a human would need less resolution.
      a human can understand the finger.
      a human can work it out without a glowing keypad.
    the amount of false positives will be overwhelming. not to mention the extreme difficulty in getting a computer to recognize something so easily recognizable by a human.

  10. Re:Put it to work for you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've farted more than you'll ever know.

    That's what she said!

  11. Re:Put it to work for you by jimmydevice · · Score: 1

    DEviaNT sez you fail

  12. Video may be bogus, but point is valid by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While this is not a unique problem to the iPad, since it is the 800 pound gorilla in the room it deservedly gets the attention.

    Whether or not any iPad keyboard is actually black with a blue afterglow (could that be IOS 5?), or whether this particular demo games the system a bit, is somewhat irrelevant. With both smartphones and tablets it's much easier to snoop someone's password. Most people don't seem to think about security at all when they're typing their login information in public on an iPad or smart phone, so shoulder snooping is easy; and the "display the most recent letter pressed" gimmick used by both iOS and Android provides yet another possible attack vector.

    I used to be very much against letting a computer or other device save my passwords; but I'm beginning to think - with portable devices anyway - there's value in doing so. Of course, if you lose the device you're screwed...

    And there's still the additional problem where a lot of wifi hotspots aren't secured, so you need to be doubly sure of the site security (e.g. https) for any website you might log into.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:Video may be bogus, but point is valid by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Whether or not any iPad keyboard is actually black with a blue afterglow (could that be IOS 5?)

      It's the keyboard for the alphanumeric passcode lock screen entry, it's been that way for quite some time.

    2. Re:Video may be bogus, but point is valid by artor3 · · Score: 1

      I have an Android phone, but I assume my method works just as well for iOS and tablets.

      Step 1) Store all of your passwords in KeePass
      Step 2) Make a long and complex password for your KeePass file, using non-alphanumerics, whitespace, repeated characters and look-alike characters. No one looking over your shoulder will memorize "S0l|ll x####ffe3EE zxp5", unless they get hi-res video of you typing it in.
      Step 3) Use the DropBox app to sync your password file to your phone
      Step 4) Run the KeePass app in the background, and copy-paste passwords into the necessary fields.
      Step 5) Make sure to turn KeePass off whenever not actively using your phone.
      Step 6) Profit, by way of not having your bank account looted.

      Only one password is ever visible, and it's complex enough that it would be near impossible to steal. Your other passwords can be just as complex as the KeePass one, since you won't need to memorize them. However, if you'd prefer they be easier to remember for times that you don't have access to KeePass, you can keep them simple. Regardless, the only way you'll ever get fucked is if you leave KeePass running, and someone manages to steal you phone in the five minute window before it turns itself off. And if you're extra paranoid, you can shorten that window to 30 seconds.

    3. Re:Video may be bogus, but point is valid by CProgrammer98 · · Score: 1

      I was about to say that you can't paste into the screen unlock field - but you can! - and no flashes, or text reveals.

      This does however mean that you need the foresight to always copy the password into the paste buffer just before locking your iPad...

      --
      And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour Isaiah 3:5
    4. Re:Video may be bogus, but point is valid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, dropbox? Are you serious?

      Dropbox and security in the same sentence does not compute.

    5. Re:Video may be bogus, but point is valid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod parent up. KeePass (or its competitors) solve many of these problems.
      "It's too hard to remember which of 40 unique passwords goes with which service".
      "People can see me type it on the keyboard".
      "If I make them short enough to remember, they're too easy to crack".
      "If I forget them or lose the device, I'm screwed". (Simply back up the KeePass encrypted file in a few different physical locations.)

  13. An old problem. Solution seems simple. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It's called a scrambled keypad.

    http://www.pcscsecurity.com/scramble-keypad-sp-100

    This can be easily implemented on iPad, iPhones, or any touch screen device. It probably should.

    1. Re:An old problem. Solution seems simple. by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      From that page:

      An audible alarm signals when a button is depressed

      Wouldn't it be great if the alarm sound had a different tone for each number pressed, kind of like a telephone?

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
  14. Scandleous! by cultiv8 · · Score: 1

    OSS used for foul play, off with their heads!

    --
    sysadmins and parents of newborns get the same amount of sleep.
  15. Re:Nike Free Run by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this is OT spam and whoever moded this up needs to have their mod abilities suspended

  16. Re:RUBBER HOSE STILL #1 !! by ColdWetDog · · Score: 0

    A rubber hose is the fast, most sure-fire way to get any info out of any body, dead or alive !!

    Up your nose with a rubber hose brings back such fond mammories !!

    You have a rather strange sex life. And thank you, no, you don't have to add any additional details.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  17. Re:Nike Free Run by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is this spam or have I somehow, completely, missed a 'classic' herve leger dress slashdot meme? I'm quite intrigued. O.0

  18. Re:Nike Free Run by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Only goes up to large. My basement dwelling fat ass would split the seams :/. I call spam.

  19. Re:Put it to work for you by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    "Luck" and "open"?

  20. making video of someone entering password by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    how different is it from capturing a video of someone entering password using a conventional keyboard?

  21. Very unimpressive demo video, keys easily visible by AC-x · · Score: 1

    That has to be one of the least impressive video demonstrations I've seen, it probably would have been quicker to frame advance the video manually and type the easily visible key presses by hand.

    If this program could decode key presses from further away where keys are no-longer easily distinguishable by eye then I would be impressed.

  22. It isn't just the iPad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The iPod Touch, iPhone and even Android all do the blue flash on key touch for visual feedback.

    Checked it on my Android based Samsung phone and yes, it does it too.

  23. Uh... by Syberz · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't it be easier and less obvious to just glance over someone's shoulder instead of standing there with your iPhone in your hand?

    --
    ~Syberz
  24. Or time coded keys by Kamiza+Ikioi · · Score: 1

    Better yet, using a time code like Google Authenticator. Ok, you have my password and my timecode. You now have 60 seconds to use it, and diddly squat after that. (Of course, if you just use a HEX time code and no password with non-visible shared secret, you're even more secure.)

    The best security is something you can do regardless of who is watching, for instance even a USB time-coded key generator. Of course, your concern then is to keep the key generator from being stolen.

    --
    I8-D
  25. Re:RUBBER HOSE STILL #1 !! by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

    If it worked for Vinnie Barbarino, then why didn't John Travolta try that in Swordfish?

  26. I Spy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone? Hello...