Slashdot Mirror


Company Claims Ownership of Digital Messaging

An anonymous reader writes "Kootol, yet another patent troll, is going after everyone who makes messaging software for violating their soon-to-be-granted patent, which claims they invented one- and two-way messaging in 2005. From the article: 'Kootol, founded in 2010, says it has a patent license agreement with Yogesh Rathod for control of U.S. Patent Application 11/995,343. Rathod, in fact, is a co-founder of Kootol with his brother Vijay Rathod. According to Kootol, the patent application “covers core messaging, publication and real time searching technology.” Interestingly, the patent in question hasn’t actually been awarded to Kootol or Rathod yet. Rather, The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office has issued “A Notice of Allowance.” That’s the term for when the USPTO says that an applicant is entitled to a patent under the law, but must pay an issue fee (and potentially publication fee) first, within three months.'"

48 of 325 comments (clear)

  1. Prior Art? by Stormthirst · · Score: 4, Informative

    Surely the SMTP protocol is a one way messaging protocol - and is older than I am!

    1. Re:Prior Art? by yeesh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ICQ. It's been out since 1996. And I think it's such a shame it's not still used. Back in the UO days it was the standard of online comms.

    2. Re:Prior Art? by The+Conductor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not as old as SMTP, but older than ICQ, is the text-based talk program, which goes back to at least 4.2 BSD. And IRC and similar BBS type programs, as well as the VAX/VMS phone program, go back to the 80's at least. I know VMS phone had notification; can't remember if it had presence though.

    3. Re:Prior Art? by jo42 · · Score: 2

      I recall using 'instant messaging' on a network on VAX/VMS back in the '80s...

    4. Re:Prior Art? by MacGyver2210 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not really even about messaging. The abstract in the patent application is so ass-backwards and contorted that nobody could make heads or tails of what the actual invention is. Here is the abstract:

      A system for transmission, reception and accumulation of the knowledge packets to plurality of channel nodes in the network operating distributedly in a peer to peer environment via installable one or more role active Human Operating System (HOS) applications in a digital devise of each of channel node, a network controller registering and providing desired HOS applications and multiple developers developing advance communication and knowledge management applications and each of subscribers exploiting the said network resources by leveraging and augmenting taxonomically and ontologically classified knowledge classes expressed via plurality search macros and UKID structures facilitating said expert human agents for knowledge invocation and support services and service providers providing information services in the preidentified taxonomical classes, wherein each of channel nodes communicating with the unknown via domain specific supernodes each facilitating social networking and relationships development leading to human grid which is searchable via Universal Desktop Search by black box search module.

      My favorite part has to be "knowledge packets"...

      --
      If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
    5. Re:Prior Art? by ldobehardcore · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The Reason why this disgusting troll is being awarded a patent is because of multiple reasons
      The most prescient is that the USPTO doesn't look for prior art, obviousness or novelty when granting patents.
      The next reason is that the USPTO along with many ill-informed politicians believe that the number of patents granted in a year has a direct correlation to the technological development of the country. This is easily nullified by the very fact that patent trolls exist. Since a company can buy a patent which is a monopoly on a theoretical device, method, or nowadays even a data set (see Monsanto's gene patents), the actual technological imperative to produce is gone. It has been replaced with an incentive to suppress a technology defined in a patent, and when it has been developed by an independent company unaware of the patent, to sue and generate a profit.
      Patents are defined in US law as a way to promote the progress of useful sciences and arts. In the last twenty or more years, it has been shown hands-down that patents do the exact opposite. They grant a monopoly to a company. The company then stands to gain in the short term far more by suing than by investing money in developing the device or method described in it's patents.
      The way that the patent system has been gamed to prevent the public from doing real research and development is deplorable, and I will be glad of the day when patent is done away with.
      I'm sure that patent will exist forever in US government, but all of my observations have show that it is not merely worthless as an institution, but detrimental to technological progress.

      --
      Hectice, baby, Mercator says hello to you
    6. Re:Prior Art? by ak_hepcat · · Score: 2

      Phone didn't have presence, quite. However, in 1991, I abused phone to create a notification system for when your peeps logged in, thereby extending
      a two-way chat application with presence.

      Yes. I've had the code online since 1991.

      Anybody with patents on two-way messaging and presence should probably line up and bite my shiny metal ass.

      --
      Support FSF: Stop thinking with your wallet, and think with your imagination. (cc/non-commercial)
    7. Re:Prior Art? by JAlexoi · · Score: 2

      The abstract in the patent application is so ass-backwards and contorted that nobody could make heads or tails of what the actual invention is.

      My favorite part has to be "knowledge packets"...

      Oh! That is Indglish - English spoken by an moderately* educated Indian guy. The perfect English mangling scheme for patents. Seriously, a lot of Indians do speak like that...

      *- And I use "moderately" in a very loose sense...

    8. Re:Prior Art? by Walt+Dismal · · Score: 3, Funny

      It is so utterly, completely obvious that the taxonomic ignification is merely a matter of sorting the knowledge packets according to chromulence, distification, and relevactory mystilience. I therefore award this patent to these geniuses, void all prior art, and entitle them to billions in ransom. Let it be known that this East Texas court is a fair and honest place where all may come and get their just rewards.

    9. Re:Prior Art? by Z00L00K · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If only USPTO was responsible for sharing the costs of a failed patent they wouldn't allow them so easy.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    10. Re:Prior Art? by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Tons of older protocols...

      So? This is the USPTO we're talking about, they stamp anything (so long as they get their fee...)

      --
      No sig today...
    11. Re:Prior Art? by jbeaupre · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I currently make most of my income dealing with patents (searching, reading, analyzing, finding problems with them, writing material for them, etc). And guess what? Nobody reads the abstract to figure out the details. All it is useful for is to determine if it's even vaguely related to what you are working on.

      If you base any analysis on a reading of the abstract alone, you are making a huge mistake. Don't bother.

      I'm not saying the patent is valid or not. I'm just saying don't read the abstract.

      --
      The world is made by those who show up for the job.
    12. Re:Prior Art? by jfengel · · Score: 2

      This is very true. But the actual claims aren't much better:

      http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20110078583

      A method of accessing applications for social networking, searching sharing and communication in a plurality of network(s), said method comprising the steps of:registering and/or integrating at least one application(s) from one or more networks at a central server by one or more application provider(s);selecting at least one registered application(s) by at least one user;installing said at least one selected application(s) at one or more networks as per predefined settings or preferences or user data; andpresenting at least one installed applications(s) and/or selective application(s) data to one or more users at one or more networks based on said predefined settings or preferences or user data or domain specific profiles.

      and so on. I don't read patents for a living, but I can usually read them, and nothing in this one gets any traction at all that I can find. If you find something cogent in it, I'd love to hear it. Mostly what I see are vague, meaningless claims followed by a delusionally grandiose background (managing, I note, to misspell "kazaa" in the process).

    13. Re:Prior Art? by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2

      The first example is probably CTSS mail, which dates to late 1964. Not only is mail older than most people here, it's old enough to have gone out of patent coverage 1.5 times.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    14. Re:Prior Art? by exomondo · · Score: 2

      These two clowns can't even come up with an original logo much less a messaging protocol. http://www.kootol.com/

    15. Re:Prior Art? by davester666 · · Score: 3

      This is a new patent. They added " with a computer" to your old, obsolete patent.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    16. Re:Prior Art? by pmontra · · Score: 2

      I know what happened. The Patent Office read the abstract, couldn't understand a single word (me too), concluded that must be some great and complex invention and granted the patent without any further investigation. They're collecting the fee anyway and not paying damages if the patent gets invalidated later on, so why bother?

    17. Re:Prior Art? by jcorno · · Score: 2

      That's the wrong patent application. The author (who doesn't seem to understand patent law) linked to another application by the same inventor. The correct publication is here.

      The first claim in the application (which may or may not be the one that will appear in the actual patent, though it's probably pretty close) is very specific. It requires, among other things, that "each user device [have] a local database and an application for... sharing desktop resources," and that "the information and the application services being delivered to the users are based upon knowledge of relevant experts." I don't see how you could argue that Twitter infringes here, and it definitely doesn't address messaging or chatting in general.

    18. Re:Prior Art? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Funny

      This is a new patent. They added " with a computer" to your old, obsolete patent.

      But did they add "with a shiny computer"?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    19. Re:Prior Art? by LocalH · · Score: 2

      Probably.

      --
      FC Closer
  2. Software patent implosion by Twinbee · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Good, the more ridiculous the patents get, the quicker something will be done to fix the mess. Personally, I'd like to see this patent granted, and dozens of companies ordered to pay lots of damages to the angelic company that is Kootol. ....if only to see the backlash from a thousand juggernauts against the current patent system ;)

    --
    Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
    1. Re:Software patent implosion by Baloroth · · Score: 2

      This. Also, seriously, trying to sue Google, Yahoo, Apple, Microsoft, AOL, Amazon, and pretty much every other major tech company all at once? I honestly think that this might have a serious chance of destroying software patents entirely. I mean, sure, the companies will be able to defend themselves, but the legal costs of having to do so against this obvious troll might finally drive them to push for fixing our damned patent system. Or maybe they'll just buy the patent (or something) and things will get worse. Judging by past experience, that seems most likely.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    2. Re:Software patent implosion by Grave · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The mere fact that we're having to pin our hopes of patent reform on corporate interests is disgusting, and proof of the inherent failure of the US government to act on behalf of the interests of the greater good of its citizens in practical matters.

    3. Re:Software patent implosion by hamburgler007 · · Score: 2

      The failure of the US government to act on behalf of the interests of the greater good of its citizens lies with said citizens.

    4. Re:Software patent implosion by causality · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Most of the thousand juggernauts you speak of are only juggernauts themselves because the patent system is the way it is. They'd much rather pay some miniscule fee than destroy their entire business model. It's going to need to get much worse before it gets better.

      (emphasis added)

      Isn't that so typically the case? I'd say there seems to be nothing more American than avoiding at all costs the use of foresight and prevention (i.e. before something turns into a crisis) but unfortunately, the USA doesn't have a monopoly on this.

      Fools are the sort who really desire political power. Nothing is less evident to a fool than the fact that every large national crisis was once a small problem that could have been resolved with relative ease, but the failure to do so allowed it to grow and evolve into a monster.

      The idea scales in both directions. It's true of individual personal lives and it's true of national affairs. Those who don't understand this think they are victims of misfortune. The reality is, an actual victim of misfortune that was completely unforeseeable and non-preventable is an extremely rare entity. On the national scale though, there is a grave injustice built into this: the fact that those who did see it coming are few and tend to be drowned out by the din of reactive fools. When they are affected by broken systems, they get to suffer along with those who really deserve it.

      Funny how when politicians talk about "fairness" (really a puerile version of justice), distribution of wealth is the only kind they seem to recognize.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    5. Re:Software patent implosion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Indeed. The Republicans fuck up, so the fools vote in the Democrats. The Democrats fuck up, so the fools vote in the Republicans. The Republicans fuck up, so the fools vote in the Democrats. The Democrats fuck up, so the fools vote in the Republicans. Holy fuck, there might just be a cycle going on here.

    6. Re:Software patent implosion by greenbird · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I guess you have no understanding of patents... There were meant to protect inventors of things from those that would steal the ideas.

      I guess you have no understanding of patents or at least not if you're from the US. They were never indented to protect inventors from anything. You might want to take just a little peek at Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 of the United States Constitution. The only Constitutional justification for granting monopoly rights to something is "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts". Nothing in there about protecting inventors from anything. And seems to me that justification is pretty focused on the greater good of society.

      --
      Who is John Galt?
    7. Re:Software patent implosion by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      Government only looks out for the good of itself. Which is the simple reason it should be limited and very defined roles. Not the "do it for the children" nanny state we've become.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    8. Re:Software patent implosion by jrumney · · Score: 2

      "The software you are suing over predates your patent. Do you wish to continue?" If you answer "Yes" to that question, you should become liable for triple the damages you are claiming upon losing the case.

    9. Re:Software patent implosion by msauve · · Score: 2, Informative

      You mean, other than the "by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries" part which you conveniently left out.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    10. Re:Software patent implosion by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And once we've successfully got the size of government down to the point where it can be drowned in the bathtub at Grover Norquist's convenience, who exactly do you think it going to stand up to the corporate plutocrats, even in principle?

      It may surprise you but there are a few people out there who actually will fight for the people given a chance. Think of the Roosevelts. Of course, since the modern GOP deliberately sabotages the government for the purpose of proving that government doesn't work...

    11. Re:Software patent implosion by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Good, the more ridiculous the patents get, the quicker something will be done to fix the mess. Personally, I'd like to see this patent granted, and dozens of companies ordered to pay lots of damages to the angelic company that is Kootol. ....if only to see the backlash from a thousand juggernauts against the current patent system ;)

      Unfortunately, it's not likely to work out that way. Kootol will no doubt be crushed, but the giant companies they're suing will most likely pay off Congress to "reform" the patent system in a way that makes it more difficult for small patent trolls to operate while still allowing the giants to go after small developers (and not-so-small, as in Microsoft's ongoing war against Linux.) Don't ask me what the specific wording will be; I don't claim to know, but they've got armies of lawyers to write the language to achieve the desired result.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    12. Re:Software patent implosion by Dhalka226 · · Score: 2

      Government only looks out for the good of itself.

      Correct. However the reason that looking out for itself is not looking out for the people is because we have proven, time and again, that there is no consequence for doing otherwise. Approval rate of Congress? Approximately 30%. Re-election rate of incumbents? Around 90%.

      This has little to do with the size of government. It has somewhat to do with the construction (the fact that we have allowed things to devolve to a two party system in particular), but ultimately it is a reflection on the fact that we are unwilling to hold politicians accountable, even about things that make us extremely angry; that we tend to be one-issue voters and that that issue is never "being a statesman instead of a politician." If we put them on notice that screwing around was going to lose them a job- and that we wouldn't simply bounce to the opposite party until they annoy us enough to bounce to the original--then looking out for itself and looking out for the people, political differences of opinion aside, would be one in the same.

      I've said it before and I'll say it again: More and more I am coming to believe that we get exactly the government we deserve.

  3. Patent system is broken! by Cadallin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Here's the problem, even ignoring issues like software patents, and the morass they cause. The USPTO has stated that they're overwhelmed, so they're just checking the paperwork, and if its all in order, they rubber stamp it and grant the patent, the courts can sort out what patents are valid, they say. Meanwhile, the Courts are continuing to defer to the expertise of the patent office, and are EXTREMELY "reluctant" to void patents. So we get any invention, no matter how obvious, no matter how old, being patentable. And as long as you're smart about who you sue as a patent troll, (pick targets who can't afford to defend themselves, and file in known friendly courts), you're golden. The system is totally borked.

    1. Re:Patent system is broken! by sribe · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What good software engineer is going to become an examiner for the USPTO compared to the benefits they could receive elsewhere.

      Also, please remember that for about the first decade after they decided to start granting software patents, they did not allow the hiring of software engineers (ie those with CS degrees) as examiners.

    2. Re:Patent system is broken! by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Perhaps we should go back to actually funding the USPTO mainly with tax revenue. I realize that there's a lot of people here that are opposed on principle, but sometimes taxpayers are the correct party to fund things.

      Communist! Socialist! Pedophile! Pothead! Music pirate! Think of the children! If we violate the principles of God and the Founding Fathers by doing such a thing, the terrorists have won!

      There. Hope that clears things up for you.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    3. Re:Patent system is broken! by Builder · · Score: 2

      In fairness to the USPTO (and I'm hardly ever fair to them) they never would have granted anything so obvious.

      What they did grant a patent for was for _sideways_ swinging on a swing!

  4. I think I've seen this before by glebovitz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This looks very similar to the Andrew Messaging System that became the CMU campus wide mail system circa 1985.

  5. Re:Really? by Arancaytar · · Score: 4, Funny

    In that case you owe me patent royalties, as I invented the digital computer last week.

    Surely I have at least as sound a claim as Kootol does.

  6. Re:Hacked already by the_enigma_1983 · · Score: 2

    Check the HTML. A div is created, 4 links to random sites inserted, and then said div is hidden via javascript. Presumably some SOE-aimed hack/spam/bot/thing.

  7. My eyes! by Haedrian · · Score: 4, Funny

    They will not stand in my way when I patent:

    System of using punctuation marks in order to make blocks of text more readable.

  8. Further proof by Darkenole · · Score: 2

    That the USPTO is staffed with lazy incompetent morons.

  9. Re:Really? by hedwards · · Score: 2

    You're doing it wrong, you need a block of text so obfuscated that the USPTO isn't quite sure what they're granting.

  10. Re:Really? by Haedrian · · Score: 5, Funny

    Method and Apparatus for use of SIlicon with additives to create electric motion in order to provide a system of postively charge regions thereafter called 1s and a system of negativly charged regions therafter called 0s in order to create, transmit,produce,transfer,convert,read,translate,display,distinguish,perform arthematic functions upon,simulate,compute information packets in order to allow a human user (HU) the ability to create, transmit,produce,transfer,convert,read,translate,display,distinguish,perform arthematic functions upon,simulate,compute further information packets which are then translated into motion of photons and EM radiation of specific frequencies by use of a 'monitor' in order to give Human Readable (HR) results which the human user (HU) is using.

  11. IP multicast - prior art? by karl.auerbach · · Score: 2

    IP multicast has been in active use on the internet since the 1980's.

    IP multicast lets receivers join groups, defined by a special class of IP addresses. Senders emit packets addressed to those addresses and the IP mulitcast routing systems (of which there are several) build distribution trees to get those packets to those receivers.

    So to the extent that this patent claims include subscription based addressing and transmission of data packets, IP multicast has been a running example of this for at least a quarter of a century.

  12. Prior Art by papafox_too · · Score: 2

    Let's see:

    1. TCAM offered transient message queues in 1971. It was used by IMS for asynchronous messaging.
    2. MQ was announced in 1992. It offers a wide range of messaging options - program to program, publish/subscribe both with synchronous and asynchronous options. Pretty much every large financial institution (banks, insurance, stock brokers) systems are built around MQ. Every stock exchange in the world uses MQ in it's trading platform.
    3. SMS was first announced in 1982.
  13. It describes using a VAX. by sgt+scrub · · Score: 2

    Clauses 1-457 were canceled.
    in 458 they describe a main frame (prior art by many, many years) so 458 should have been canceled, in addition to all of the clauses based on 458.
    providing a central controller for controlling a plurality of processes involved in said information searching and sharing;

    463 is based on 462 which is based on 458 so it should be canceled. 479 repeats the claim to prior art noted above. This leaves 478 as the only clauses not voided by the above prior art. Unfortunately for the patent troll 478 vaguely describes clustered computing as a means to duplicate the process of a main frame, which there are several instances of prior art as well.

    --
    Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.