ISP Refuses To Block the Pirate Bay

asto21 writes "Previously, representatives from the Finnish music industry filed a lawsuit against Elisa, one of the country's largest ISPs, demanding that it should block subscriber access to The Pirate Bay. In a reply filed at the district court, Elisa has refused to comply, describing the blocking demands as unreasonable."

Comments

Why hasn't it clicked yet?

[Haedrian]

"The industry groups counter by saying they have been left with no other choices after the criminal conviction of the Pirate Bay admins following their November 2010 appeal failed to close down the site. Instead, the number of Finns using the site only increased."

You'd think they worked out that suing people hasn't worked by now.

When the industry starts giving people what they want - DRM-free stuff they can 'own' and use whichever way they like, at a reasonable price - then piracy will go down.

Re:Why hasn't it clicked yet?

[Lord Juan]

When the industry starts giving people what they want - DRM-free stuff they can 'own' and use whichever way they like, at a reasonable price - then piracy will go down.

Yes, but so will their profits, and remember, no freedom is worth a drop in their profits.

Re:Why hasn't it clicked yet?

[jimicus]

You'd think they worked out that suing people hasn't worked by now.

When the industry starts giving people what they want - DRM-free stuff they can 'own' and use whichever way they like, at a reasonable price - then piracy will go down.

(Please note that I make no comment as to whether or not you're right, I'm simply commenting on why anyone might continue down this path long after it appears to everyone else that they're fantastically misguided).

It is hard to admit your own mistakes.

It is very hard to admit your own mistakes when you've been making them for so long that they've almost come to define you.

It is fantastically hard to admit to mistakes when you've got a socking great organisation set up to perpetuating them. At this stage, even if the man at the top knows that he's on the wrong course, a significant percentage of the people he's working with won't accept that.

Re:Why hasn't it clicked yet?

[perryizgr8]

"The industry groups counter by saying they have been left with no other choices after the criminal conviction of the Pirate Bay admins following their November 2010 appeal failed to close down the site. Instead, the number of Finns using the site only increased."

You'd think they worked out that suing people hasn't worked by now.

When the industry starts giving people what they want - DRM-free stuff they can 'own' and use whichever way they like, at a reasonable price - then piracy will go down.

you CAN get drm free mp3s from itunes now. has that actually decreased any piracy? nope.

Re:Why hasn't it clicked yet?

[mooglez]

We are sorry...

        * We could not process your order. The sale of MP3 Downloads is currently available only to US customers located in the United States.

Re:Why hasn't it clicked yet?

[bemymonkey]

The real question is whether or not it's increased sales... I know it has on my part.

Re:Why hasn't it clicked yet?

[toxickitty]

When the industry starts giving people what they want - DRM-free stuff they can 'own' and use whichever way they like, at a reasonable price - then piracy will go down.

They don't want that though, the minute you have a prefect digital copy you don't have to keep buying the same shit everytime we get a new technology to play it, and they certainly don't want that at all ^^

Re:Why hasn't it clicked yet?

[Quince alPillan]

No, but Netflix and Pandora killed any video and music pirating I might have been doing. I'd much rather pay Netflix every month, and Pandora once a year, than having to deal with viruses, codec issues, and rampant quality issues.

The fact that I can have both services on my devices (Pandora works on my PS3) means that I don't have to format shift any more, either.

I still refuse to pay iTunes prices for music or videos, but Pandora is good enough that I don't need to download music any more. Netflix is far easier than pirating videos and has far more content than any one website, which means I don't have to search for something I might like.

While my evidence is merely anecdotal, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of other people didn't feel the same way.

Re:Why hasn't it clicked yet?

[mooglez]

You don't think that piracy is just a non-US problem, do you really? If you do you're a fool and if you don't you've gone out of your way to miss the point which makes you a troll.

piracy is a worldwide problem, hence you cannot use examples or webstores that are only available in the united states to draw conclusions like the op did.
ie. that there already are viable alternatives to piracy => if piracy did not go down => it is the people and not the content managers who are at fault.

especially when this whole news article is about an EUROPEAN isp. hence the discussion would by logic be eurocentric, not us centric.

my post was to show that there is still a lot of work to do on the content managers side to bring out a product that can compete with a pirated product, around the world, and not just in some specific part of the world.

Re:Why hasn't it clicked yet?

[plover]

They don't want that though, the minute you have a prefect digital copy you don't have to keep buying the same shit everytime we get a new technology to play it, and they certainly don't want that at all ^^

This.

If buying CDs was "only buying the rights to listen to the music", our license would extend to whatever form of media it were on. The "rights" I bought to listen to Stairway to Heaven in the 1970s were never advertised as expiring, nothing in the album packaging or liner notes indicated that these rights would expire, therefore they should have extended beyond the vinyl to the CDs I acquired in the 1980s, or the MP3 I download from iTunes today.

They have proven this is not the case, because they charged me full price for the CD even though I owned the vinyl. If I truly owned the rights to listen to the music, I should have only had to pay a few dollars for the conversion to digital and the different media. But no, I paid exactly the same price as someone who didn't previously own the music on vinyl.

Either we're licensing the rights to listen, which should extend across media, or we're buying the bits and own them. They shouldn't get it both ways.

Re:Why hasn't it clicked yet?

[ibwolf]

My wife just loves John Mayer's music. We but it, she puts a copy on her iPod ( which she uses while bike riding and at the gym) through iTunes, we burn a copy of the CD and put on in the CD changer in the car and the original gets put into the CD collection. Guess what, the EVIL record companies don;t give a shit about that.

Of course the give a 'shit' about that, it is just unfortunate (from their perspective) that the CD specification was finalized long before DRM became an issue. They would love nothing more than to be able to sell you a separate copy for your iPod, car and home stereo. Indeed, Sonly tried very hard to 'fix' CDs so that you couldn't rip them!

Meanwhile video content is still DRM infested and digital books seem headed in that direction as well.

Would like to think my ISP would have those guts

[elrous0]

I really would like to believe that American ISP's would have those guts when the (inevitable) day comes. But I'm pretty sure that they'll be falling all over themselves to comply (especially since most of them are owned by big media companies like Time Warner and Comcast).

Such a slippery slope.

[commo1]

The ISPs rightly refuse... if this is what they're blocking this week, what will it be next and where will they be taking orders from?

One (or more) of the 'agencies' of the U.S.A.? Interpol? Local law enforcement? The PTA?

Can't give in to blackmail.

[Aceticon]

Blocking access to a specific site on demand from a specific interest group just opens up a huge can of worms. You do it for one interest group and next you know, everybody and their cat is demanding you do the same for them.

After all, if one group can demand it in order to defend their business model, then certainly other owners of IP can too. For example if somebody reposts a post of mine (of which I automatically own the copyright) in part or in whole, they're breaking my copyright - I think I need to request that access is blocked to every proxy in the planet from Finand.

Then there's the whole "morality" groups - how about, say, muslim groups demanding that access to sites of newspapers critical of Islam is blocked, pro-democracy groups demanding blocking of critical sites, anti-democracy groups demanding blocking of pro-democracy sites, misguided animal-rights groups demanding blocking of access to bonsai-cats and more.
After all, as the argument would go, those sites facilitate the spread of defamatory posts and even posts that incite hatred on religious or political grounds (yes, there are places were this is against the law and said law is vaguelly enough written that pretty much everything fits until it comes in front of a court and is proven).

Re:Can't give in to blackmail.

[Barbara, not Barbie]

For example if somebody reposts a post of mine (of which I automatically own the copyright) in part or in whole, they're breaking my copyright.

Just want to point out that you are perpetuating a common misconception - two, actually.

1. Not everything you post is automatically copyrightable.

For example, if you posted "1+1=2", that is not subject to copyright. It is neither original nor creative, as well as being a non-copyrightable fact.

Also, things that are trivial are not copyrightable. Look at the whole linux header files debate.

Then there's this HUGE hole - people think that they can protect an idea by copyright, when copyright doesn't allow it:

(b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.

This is why you can't copyright the rules of a game - just the artwork, etc.

2. People can repost your post without your permission under certain circumstances without breaking your copyright.

Fair use is just one example. Libraries and archives are another. In Canada, news media can repost it under section 29.2 of the Canadian Copyright Act without compensation as long as they provide attribution.

Re:reasonable

[mmcuh]

"Burger King" are obviously royalists who aim to overthrow the US republic and replace it with a monarchy. You can clearly see it in their name. Really, what's their defence?

Exactly the same thing happened in Holland

[dingen]

Dutch music & movie trade association BREIN won a lawsuit against The Piratebay in 2009 (it was covered onSlashdot). When it became clear The Piratebay wouldn't actively block Dutch users, BREIN started to sue Dutch ISP's, but none of them caved. Now, two years later, The Piratebay is still available through all Dutch ISP's, despite all of the lawsuits.

Re:Only practical solution?

[PhilHibbs]

Give people what they want: digital content, at a reasonable price, that they can own (like an 8-track, vinyl or wax cylinder) and listen to whenever they want on any of their devices (gramaphone, victrolla, car 8-track, etc).

That's some crazy advanced technology, that allows you to own a copy and not just pay for a licence! Are you sure any of it is possible?

Re:Wow, Elisa? Really?

[treeves]

Elisa says, "How does that make you feel?"