CEO Confirms Chevy To Sell Diesel Cruze In US

s122604 writes "For the first time in almost 30 years, a U.S. carmaker is planning to market a non-truck diesel vehicle in the U.S. — the Chevy Cruze. Estimated MPG for the automatic transmission version is in the mid 40s, which is better than the only other small diesel sedan sold in the U.S. (the Volkswagen Jetta), and slightly better than their gasoline powered 'Eco' model... I'd like to know what the MPG on the 6-speed manual version is."

Comments

I like my Turbo Diesel

[gilesjuk]

There's other niceties with diesel, the engines last longer and run at a lower RPM. There's more torque, people buy horsepower but drive torque as the saying goes.

There's no ignition system to worry about, no plugs and so on.

The downside is the soot that comes out the back when accelerating hard.

Re:I like my Turbo Diesel

[drinkypoo]

The down side is price. It can cost almost twice as much for the engine in a TD as in an ordinary gasser, and the price of the vehicle comes up significantly in such a case. It has to do partly with economies of scale, which is why auto manufacturers used to simply buy diesels for their light trucks; Dodge using Cummins and Ford using International-Navistar. And indeed, they always have and still do buy the engines for their heavier trucks; Everyone buys from everyone, except IIRC only Ford still buys from International. I believe everyone else is using a Cat or a Cummins; so does Ford. Chevrolet, as the owner of Allison, is the only company which didn't have to do this back in the day. Unfortunately for them, Allison totally blew the 6.5, which was designed to be built on gasser production lines. This is not precisely the same thing as saying that it was modified from a gas engine, but it's the next best thing.

The good news for Chevy is that they no longer wear the "I can't build diesels" crown, that now goes to Ford. I just got the line from a euro mechanic who also owns a bunch of domestics, and who used to have a truck similar to mine but much older (with a 6.9 -- the 7.3 is a bored out 6.9, basically.) Ford has a coolant-filled EGR that frequently fails. Because the turbo is tucked into the valley to save space, the exhaust manifolds turn up instead of down. The result is that when the EGR fails (and it invariably does) the coolant empties into the cylinders. Very classy. The tendency away from Ford diesels worth buying actually began with the 7.3 powerstroke, which is the last machine worth buying from them, I believe it ended in 2000. In an effort to make the valve covers cheaper (I am not making this up) they put everything under the valve covers. As a result you have a valve cover gasket with wires and connectors integrated into it that frequently fails and costs a mint to replace.

Finally, it costs about four to eight times as much for the 'stroke HPOP as for my fuel pump, and I get the same mileage as a 'stroke, and with the aftermarket turbo I have the same power as an early 7.3 'stroke without modifications.

The best diesel I've ever messed with is the OM617.951 Mercedes engine, anemic by modern standards but I have all the power I need in my car. It's a work of art in a way that very few engines are, and it's matched by a truly excellent injection pump that can take a raft of abuse, unlike the DB-2 in my Ford... and which was also used by Chevy/Allison on the 6.2 and 6.5 lemons.

Re:I like my Turbo Diesel

[vikisonline]

Diesels work by compressing gas more. They have a much higher compression ratio than gasoline cars. Compressed gas heats up, and due to the high compression ratios in diesels, they do it to the point where the air in the cylinder gets so hot that it burns up on its own. So they use absolutely no source of ignition. How hot the air in the cylinder gets depends on ambient temperature. So in winter they could have a problem. Diesels have glow plugs to compensate for this. They are noting more than electric heating elements that get really hot inside the cylinder. They are only used for starting the engine, really only needed in cold weather. Once the engine is running they are not powered anymore. Consequently if you have a diesel that is hard to start in cold weather you probably have problems with the glow plugs (they are worn out and need replacing or the connection to them is loose). Diesels are also harder to start because of the higher compression rate, which makes it harder to turn over. So in the winter time a block heater can be used to heat up the oil to aid in turning it over. Now with all that I have a 1994 TDI golf. Here in Canada we get to -10C -15C easy in the winter but I rarely have problems. Just make sure you got a good battery, but I think that goes for any car in that weather.

Re:Any USEFUL information?

[BiggerIsBetter]

Is there any USEFUL information on this car out there, like whose design the powerplant is, where it's being built, et cetera?/

It appears to be a VM Motori / GM Daewoo powerplant.

Re:Any USEFUL information?

[drinkypoo]

Ahh, good work. It looks like a very nice little package although I am concerned about the vac pump being mounted direct to the alternator, which seems a questionable decision. I actually think vacuum pumps are a bit daft, and my intention is to eliminate mine (on my pickup) just as soon as I can come up with a hydroboost brake system. There is very little controlled by vacuum on my truck; the fuel shutoff is electrical (vacuum on the mercedes) and all I actually have to worry about is the air con stuff (mode door, temp door.) Those are easily accessed so it should be relatively trivial to handle that with arduino+servo. Eliminating the vacuum system means eliminating vacuum leaks, not to mention eliminating the vacuum pump which is in an awkward location that prohibits easy access to the lift pump.

I can't understand why they would even bother to produce vacuum on a modern car; the majority now use electrically actuated cruise control (on a direct-injected diesel or indeed on anything with throttle by wire, cruise control is purely a matter of software) and also electrically-actuated environmental controls. My Mercedes uses vac for everything so I'm leaving it alone.

No soot with modern diesels

[Shivetya]

I have a 2010 Golf TDI, there is no soot, there is no smell either. Had a big doubter at work who spouted all those anti-diesel myths of days gone by come out with some others to see the car when I bought it. He even sat right behind the exhaust pipe when I started it and acknowledged all he could detect was hot air.

My commute is 26 miles to work, 27 on the way home; yeah its not the same, based on traffic patterns. I track my fuel usage on fueleconomy.gov and my average since June of 2010 has been 41.7. My commute has no interstate, there are some four lane areas but many more 45 and 35 mph two lane country roads past subdivisions and such.

My highest average over the commute in was 51.2, the lowest which only occurs on the way home was 37+. Acceleration is my mileage killer. If I catch every light green I can see some great numbers. Since I do not use an interstate or other limited access road I have alternatives and never get trapped in stop and go.

Another note, I pay the same as premium gasoline. However in two recent run ups in price Diesel stopped increasing in price and I actually saw regular gas cost more. Even when I pay $4 a gallon and regular is at $3.60 I do better than everything short of a Prius for efficiency. Most of the current 40+ crowd I see advertised are lucky to get above the low 30s consistently.

Only improvements I want to cars are regenerative braking and electric propulsion assist. I have two wheels that aren't powered. A small battery pack or something used only at launch would do wonders to overcome the losses I incur when accelerating from a stop. Plus I would not mind some of it back when I am stopping to aid that starting.

Re:No soot with modern diesels

[dyshexic]

first off i drive a 15 year old B4 IZ Passat in the UK, its a 1.9 common rail design and I love it being a diesel, it designed for German roads so does 80mph in 4th and bimbles along in 5th. But it does have smoke and particulate issues and thus is banned from many central area of German cities which will rapidly roll-out across Europe in the next few years.

You may already do this BUT
I thought I should point out an issue with your particle trap - RTFM - you must run it at high revs with a cleaning agent every so often to burn off the particles in your particle trap. If you fail to do so it WILL become blocked and it's an expensive and obviously unnecessary garage bill.

BTW the reason Diesel is expensive is because everybody uses it, gas/petrol is a side product from production. Although VW don't like people doing it, its perfectly possible to run your car on vegetable either fresh or recycled but you must remember to change the fuel filter after a while as the veg oil tends to dissolve the gunk in your fuel system and leading to it ending up in your fuel filter

the one thing i hope is that European and far east manufactures will start selling you in the states the sizes of engine we get over here. The latest 1.6litre blu-motion (urea additive) passat's have a higher list KW than my 1.9 passat and I have no problem doing 110Mph on German unrestricted autobahnen and that was with 4 people on board and a load of luggage in my station wagon.

Btw i get about 10 miles per litre on average in my 1.9 passat station wagon that based on mostly urban sometimes highway driving. So that's a bit less than 40 mpg (US) - not bad for a 15 year old car that has driven to the moon (~240,000 miles)

Apparently VW has worked out that hybrid diesel makes sense as diesel typically need bigger batteries anyway, so apparently hybrids will increasingly be seen as will the regenerative braking ideas derived from formula 1.

the price is not a down side in cars

[RingDev]

I paid $21.5k for my 06 VW TDi Golf. At the same time the same model with the eco 4 cylinder gas engine was selling for just a hair over $19k.

I get 45 miles per gallon, and I drive like my feet are made of led. I put 40 miles of interstate driving on to my car twice every day. Toss in a few random arrands and I'm easily doing 350+ miles per week. But I usually get 650-700 miles per tank. Only having to fill up every other week really takes the edge off of fuel price hikes. I bumped into a hyper miler last summer in an 06 Jetta TDi (sedan version of the Golf) he was getting 56mpg, and he was going to swap his 5th gear for a higher ratio and was projecting 60+ mpg.

In 2010, my wife's car died. So we figured we'd get her a new one in the cash-for-clunkers deal. Only I wasn't about to shell out $500+ in car payments. So we went to the bank to see about refinancing the Golf. That's right, a CAR with enough equity to be able to refinance. With 40k miles and 4 years on it, it still blue booked for $17k. Compared to the gas version that had a KBB value in the $10-12k range.

So yeah, the Diesel engine costs more. But if you intent on reselling your car in 5 years or so, you'll come out up on the deal. And if you don't intend to sell it, you'll come out ahead on fuel savings over the life of the car.