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Get Cyber-Mercenaries Suggests Ex NSA, CIA Director

siliconbits writes "One of the architects of US foreign policy under George W. Bush, General Michael Hayden, suggested that the US Government should consider creating a "Digital Blackwater" during a conversation at an event called the Aspen Security Forum. Blackwater was the US private military group founded in 1997 and which has been renamed as Xe Services LLC, a move possibly linked with a number of controversies that arose after the company expanded its security-related operations into Iraq and Afghanistan. Recruiting mercenaries, Hayden suggested 'might be one of those big new ideas in terms of how we have to conduct ourselves in this new cyber domain.'"

21 of 135 comments (clear)

  1. Do like the Romans by OnionFighter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because mercenaries worked so well for them.

    1. Re:Do like the Romans by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is more like a digital Taliban: giving resources to people whose goals might allign with your now (and a long as the money keeps coming) but who in the end likely have a morality that's 180 degrees opposite to yours. Of course we all know how well supporting the Taliban worked out for the US in the end.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    2. Re:Do like the Romans by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 2

      It's pretty uncontroversial.

      Wikipedia on US support for Jihad in Afghanistan :

      "U.S. government financial support for the Afghan Islamic militants was substantial. Aid to Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, an Afghan mujahideen leader. and founder and leader of the Hezb-e Islami radical Islamic militant faction, alone amounted "by the most conservative estimates" to $600 million. Hekmatyar "worked closely" with bin Laden in the early 1990s.[71] In addition to hundreds of millions of dollars of American aid, Hekmatyar also received the lion's share of aid from the Saudis.[72] There is evidence that the CIA supported Hekmatyar's drug trade activities by giving him immunity for his opium trafficking that financed operation of his militant faction.[73]"

      Then after those radical islamists took power in the 90's :

      "Foreign powers, including the United States, briefly supported the Taliban, hoping it would restore order in the war-ravaged country. For example, it made no comment when the Taliban captured Herat in 1995, and expelled thousands of girls from schools."

      I also distinctly remember CNN reporting how the US was giving Afghanistan money to burn (opium) poppy fields, this was in the 90's way before 9/11 and before alliances shifted and we suddenly began hearing about how evil Taliban were destroying priceless buddha statues in the lead-up to war.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    3. Re:Do like the Romans by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 2

      Because mercenaries worked so well for them.

      This is a very different situation. If one of my clients hired a group of 'cyber-mercenaries' (calling something cyber-anything make me want to puke) my client could absolve themselves of liability and culpability of any wrongdoings by said mercenaries (just like the US government washes their hands of Blackwater's problems). In fact, if these mercenaries also have government contracts their actions probably would never be properly investigated at all.

      I'm not in favor of this idea, but it certainly has show to be a successful buffer from responsibility.

    4. Re:Do like the Romans by thrich81 · · Score: 2

      You can shut up about the drone pilots. As a former military pilot myself, we wanted every standoff weapon there was -- air-to-air missiles with longer ranges; air launched cruise missiles with longer ranges, precision guided bombs with longer ranges. We weren't hanging our butts over the combat zone to rack up style points, we had a job to do and minimizing risk to ourselves was part of that -- if for nothing else, to save the expense of training replacements. Before air launched weapons, everyone wanted longer range artillery for the same reasons. The drones are just better standoff weapons. If you don't like them, your complaint is with the policy makers (and the citizens who elect them), not the operators.

  2. Great, the Pinkertons... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If one is familar with US history, in the 1800s, the meanest people around were not private armies or police. It was the hired guys like the Pinkertons who would come in and smash heads for the big businessmen.

    These guys even had judges under them, where people could be arrested, tried, and hanged all done privately.

    Do we want national security again in the hands of private business that is accountable to nothing but the bottom dollar?

  3. Hire Anonymous by madhatter256 · · Score: 2

    They seem to be doing a good job in taking down sites and pushing agendas. Maybe they can earn money while doing taking down China and the likes...

    --
    Previewing comments are for sissies!
  4. this doesn't turn out how they think it will by Thud457 · · Score: 2

    "In 2002, a 'l33t haxx0r unit was sent to prison by a MPAA court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a minimum security basement to the San Francisco underground. Today, still wanted by the RIAA they survive as hackers for hire. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them....maybe you can hire The lambda."

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  5. The Prince Says "No". by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Anyone that has ever read Machiavelli's the Prince knows that mercenaries are bound to bite you in the ass sooner or later. And while the US has made light use of mercenary troops, we've already seen BlackWater have to change it's name to "Xe Services" after it's outrageous actions caused such a shit storm around the world.

    You take a maverick group like Blackwater, give them greyhats with a black lining and put them in charge of cyberwarfare, it's only a matter of time till they abuse it to such an extent that they create more problems than they are worth or worse, are ordered to spy on or act against US citizens on US soil in an overt attempt to circumvent US laws regarding the actions of the US gov't.

  6. No by mbone · · Score: 2

    One of the architects of US foreign policy under George W. Bush.

    Any person with that in their resume should be banned from any contact with public service or public policy whatsoever.

  7. Re:How about fixing computer security instead? by geekoid · · Score: 2

    Your view on computer security is.. myopic.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  8. "a number of controversies"? by rbrausse · · Score: 2

    interesting way to describe events like the Blackwater Baghdad shootings...

    and I think the US has digital mercaneries working in a gray area - think of all the private IT security companies working for the government (anonymous/lulzsec targets are sufficient examples: ManTech, HBGary)

  9. Better idea - Cyber-Privateers by gman003 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If there can be online pirates, there can be online privateers. Say the US declares Cyber-war on China. Instead of needing to hire, outfit and finance a full Cyber-Army, just declare "any American who hacks China can a) do so legally and b) keep any valuable stuff they steal". Maybe even pay bounties - $10,000 to take down the People's Congress website for a day, $100,000 for each classified document stolen, etc. Private corporations might pay, too - I'm sure Apple would pay a decent amount for someone to damage whatever factory is currently producing iPod knock-offs. Or even just regular corporate espionage, just more publicly since it's legalized.

    Then all you really need to focus on is defense, and defense is a lot easier for the big slow guy. Since you get an instant army whenever you go on the attack, you can pretty much just play a slow, conservative defense game.

  10. Re:I can't imagine why he would say that by NJRoadfan · · Score: 2

    Translation:

    "Hire my consulting firm with a multi-year contract and it won't be a problem anymore"

  11. Re:Advantages of Merceneraries by Bookworm09 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    2. Cheaper. Real soldiers tend to cost more - because we pay for their training, long term support, etc.

    Not true. We do pay for their training: almost without exception, the guys who work for companies like Blackwater/Xe and Triple Canopy are veterans of elite military units. So their business model is essentially this: 1. Let the US government spend the time and money training special operations personnel and (just as important) getting them experience in real-world operations. 2. Entice them to leave the military (if they already hadn't on their own) with the promise of lots of money and less "bullshit" (rules), 3. Sell their services back to the military at ridiculously high rates. 4. Profit. If companies like Blackwater/Xe had to train their own personnel from scratch, their business models would fall apart. They're another example of "the free market" relying on the government to provide them the resources that they exploit to enrich themselves. And the vast majority of them seethe about "government waste, fraud, and abuse" the whole time they do it. I have first-hand experience with PMC's; I used to work for a competitor of Blackwater's. In fact, if the Obama (or any other) administrtion were to try to do this, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if they saw a bunch of "cyber operators" quit the NSA, Air Force, etc., and sign up.

  12. We're supposed to be the good guys by WillAdams · · Score: 2

    and the best way to do this is to use people who are subject to Status of Forces agreements, and under control of the civilian authority. Use Marines to guard embassies, Security Police to guard Airbases, &c.

    I wouldn't hire Blackwater, Xe, Chertoff Group &c. to pick up my trash.

    --
    Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
  13. Article I, Section 8, Paragraph 11 by chill · · Score: 2

    To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

    Reading the U.S. Constitution for a modern era. Bring on the digital Letters of Marque and Reprisal!

    Avast, matey! Batten down the routers and prepare to repel boarders!

    I'm in.

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
  14. Reverse Google Bounty! by DarthVain · · Score: 2

    Rather than "hire" a bunch of people and support staff, and buildings, and technology, just use capitalism!

    Start a website called US Digital Bounty Hunter Service. Post targets and corresponding bounty amounts.

    Sit back and enjoy the show!

    or

    1) Post Cyber Warfare Bounties
    2) ???
    3) PROFIT!!!

  15. Good Generals Just Fade Away by LifesABeach · · Score: 2

    Retirement becomes this noble hero. I believe that the General's boss was a short sighted, self centered, twit. And this general followed him into battle. Maybe to the General outsourcing his Depends is acceptable, but I believe that there are more than enough good Americans that can handle this job, very well.

    Republican since 1971

  16. Why do you need 'mercenaries' ? by oneiros27 · · Score: 2

    Currently, almost all IT support in the US government is contracted out ... so in a way, they're already hiring mercenaries, but I won't get into that bat.

    All you need to do is to have a pool of talent within the government that under normal situations does pentests at the request of government agencies / divisions / whatever, and in a situation when something big happens, they can be pulled from those assignments to actively attack something.

    This way, they get practice, we harden our systems, but it's not just some random hacker being contracted to make an attack ... they'd be regular government employees (although, likely contractors), who have had the necessary background checks, etc.

    --
    Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
  17. Such a bad idea by cjcela · · Score: 2

    Putting mercenaries in the middle of critical IT infrastructure can only seem like a good idea to people who will profit out of that. Data can be copied. Good luck containing leaks once someone (or a corporation) who sells himself to whoever offers more puts his/her paws on it. Corporations and government do not mix well, as their goals are conflicting.