Slashdot Mirror


Sale of Samsung Galaxy Tab Blocked in the EU

bizwriter writes with a news piece in bnet about the continuing battle between Samsung and Apple. From the article: "In a stunning and painful decision for Samsung, Apple got a German court to issue a preliminary injunction against the Galaxy Tab. According to patent analyst and blogger Florian Mueller, that means Samsung cannot ... sell its tablet in the entire European Union, except for the Netherlands."

62 of 412 comments (clear)

  1. Cant compete, but sue. by unity100 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Its better to block out competitors by trolling patents than outcompete them isnt it. god bless american companies ..... not.

    1. Re:Cant compete, but sue. by bonch · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is Slashdot, which means anything that runs Linux is automatically the protagonist, even if the product is ripping off someone else's ideas.

    2. Re:Cant compete, but sue. by DriedClexler · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you think "rounded corners on a tablet" is "ripping off Apple's ideas", I know this company called Xerox I'd like to introduce you to.

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    3. Re:Cant compete, but sue. by myurr · · Score: 2

      Hey, don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. And it's clear that poor old Apple is having their intellectual property stolen! Look how similar these other tablets look to Apples invention (forgetting all those that came before and looked like that too).

      Truth is that Apple IS running scared. They stole a march on the smartphone market by coming out with a better product than the competition. However they've struggled to keep ahead of the curve and Android phones are outselling the iPhone 5 to 2 with the difference growing all the time. In a few years they'll have retreated all the way back into being a niche supplier charging a big premium for their kit.

      They again shook up the tablet sector with a different, better product but Android is starting to catch up with the Samsung tab being the strongest competitor. Apple are absolutely running scared as they can see the same thing that happened with the iPhone happening with the iPad.

      That's not to say that the company will fail in any way - merely that they'll be one of many competitors with a sub 20% market share. And that just isn't good enough for their ambitions, which seems to be to provide all the channels via which we consume media which in turn requires a large market share, so they have their lawyers out there fighting for that dream. Apple have a good tech and design team, but they're not good enough to grab that monopoly only through building a better product. The legal route is the only one that can work for them.

    4. Re:Cant compete, but sue. by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Funny

      Apple didn't invent the tablet, and Apple has nicked plenty of other peoples' work.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    5. Re:Cant compete, but sue. by gstoddart · · Score: 2, Informative

      Its better to block out competitors by trolling patents than outcompete them isnt it. god bless american companies ..... not.

      Well, for starters Samsung is a Korean company.

      At this point, I have no idea who sued who first ... but Samsung made the components for Apple, and Apple is asserting that in the process, Samsung ripped off their technologies so they could make their own product. (A little googling managed to turn up this timeline -- apparently Apple sued first.)

      Sadly, with patents being such a big factor in what products you can make without getting sued (for instance, Android phone makers paying Microsoft) ... I don't see how you can have anything but product competition being defined by lawyers and the courts.

      Unless you toss the notion of patents altogether, do you have a proposal of how companies will make products with out constantly suing one another? Because quite frankly, as it stands, the patent system pretty much guarantees that your lawyers are more important than your engineers.

      Patents exist so that you can avoid having to out-compete, you either get in injunction, or make them pay you an obscene licensing fee per unit that makes it impossible to compete effectively.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    6. Re:Cant compete, but sue. by VGPowerlord · · Score: 3, Funny

      If you think "rounded corners on a tablet" is "ripping off Apple's ideas", I know this company called Xerox I'd like to introduce you to.

      And Xerox copied... oh wait, they didn't copy anyone. Oh, the irony.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    7. Re:Cant compete, but sue. by mattack2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If "Apple can't compete on price", why are iPads the same or lower price than "competing" tablets?

    8. Re:Cant compete, but sue. by gmon750 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Bullshit. Samsung from day one has done nothing but copy Apple's ecosystem. From icon design, peripherals, GUI interface (phones), etc.

      Before Apple came into the field, everyone had 20+ years to come up with a phone / tablet design to shake the industry. Even with with the few players that gave up quickly, everyone else did NOTHING!

      Now Apple comes in with their iPhone and iPad and SUDDENLY everyone's products now looks like an iPhone and iPad. That is no coincidence at all. When the iPhone was just an introduction back in 2007 before it shipped 6-months later, even Steve Jobs said they "And boy, did we patent it!". Why??? Because NO ONE ELSE had anything even remotely similar to it, and good for them!

      What happened to designing your own stuff??? Even Samsung's CEO publicly admitted having to hold back their Galaxy Tab after the iPad2 introduction so that they could essentially copy its features.

      And yet you fandroid-huggers continue to spin the story that Apple is the one at fault.

      "Who cares if everyone is copying Apple's stuff. Apple should just keep innovating to stay ahead!" - Wrong! Apple can (and should) protect both its current IP and continue the same path of R&D that has made it hugely successful. This does not give copy-shops like Samsung an open-invitation to simply ride on the back of Apple's R&D.

      Slashdot's Android fanboys are just delusional. It's no surprise that the Android OS itself is now in front of the gun barrel with patent and licensing violations, including Google's own internal messages that they knew Android's Java implementation was essentially stolen.

      This is not bad for consumers. This is actually good for them because it will force Samsung to ACTUALLY COME UP WITH ITS OWN STUFF! Who knows? It might even be better!

      Spin your way out of that.

    9. Re:Cant compete, but sue. by mattack2 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I know this company called Xerox I'd like to introduce you to.

      From wikipedia:

      Jobs and several Apple employees including Jef Raskin visited Xerox PARC in December 1979 to see the Xerox Alto. Xerox granted Apple engineers three days of access to the PARC facilities in return for the option to buy 100,000 shares (800,000 split-adjusted shares) of Apple at the pre-IPO price of $10 a share.

      There is a citation to another page (a fool.com page) that I don't see actually gives this same price/share value, however it has been reported in many other places that Apple gave Xerox shares in exchange for the info/right to use the things they invented.

    10. Re:Cant compete, but sue. by Raisey-raison · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The reason Apple is going after the Galaxy Tab is that a vary rare event has occurred - they actually have a competitor producing a product which is as good or better than Apple's product.

    11. Re:Cant compete, but sue. by Vancorps · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Where did you get that bit about the CEO of Samsung? It makes no sense since the majority of functionality found in the Galaxy Tab is just Android which isn't developed by Samsung and kind of refutes your whole point.

      You seem very one-sided and willfully ignorant especially with your interpretation of the whole Android debacle. Did you forget the part about the Sun CEO of the time encouraging Google to use Java for free?

      All in all it matters little, Samsung is big enough to fight this battle and it will shed further light on ridiculous patents that Apple has become famous for using as a shield. I don't blame Apple for that either, they certainly aren't alone in that strategy. The iPad2 was just a logical extension of the existing iPad with features that everyone screamed it should have had to begin with especially since there was no technical reason it didn't but a marketing and sales driven reason but that's just good business on Apple's part since so many people eat it up.

      Samsung has had a great track record of being innovative in the technology sector. They came out with a way better initial offering on the Samsung Apps approach knowing full well Sony was doing the same thing and their product was vastly superior with Sony still trying to play catch up and failing miserably as Sony is only good at the high end.

    12. Re:Cant compete, but sue. by Genda · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Clearly you don't get what's happening. People here on Slashdot, for the most part don't care one way or the other about Apple. They have awesome product design, and you pay a huge premium for their artistic flare (typically 200%.) That's absolutely why artists love Apple.

      The problem here is that Apple is fighting dirty, the IP they claim for the most part is thin at best and utterly bogus in the rest. Yes, they took the tablet that Microsoft and an army of PC makers simply couldn't figure out, and produced a perfect combination of software and hardware with a great form factor for a specific set of purposes, knowing instinctively what to accomplish (with today's technology) and what to avoid.

      That makes them bright, clever, first on the scene with the right formula for success in this market. Kudos... It doesn't mean they could, should, or deserve to own the entire touch-pad market space. Just on principal its offensive to see someone wage a campaign of scape the bottom ethics. For another, look at the iPad 2, notice how much cooler it is that the iPad 1. That because even in their brilliance,Apple saw their competitors come up with cool ideas they missed. Having competition keeps you sharp, makes you honest, because silly BS won't fly in the face of real competition. The saddest part it that this is just morally and socially lazy. Trying to win like this is an admission that you haven't got the chops to compete on your intelligence or talent. That or it means you're such a bloated beast that you win by going around crushing your competition by manipulating legal and social options.

      Apple should applaud the Galaxy, because it make the iPad better. Suck it up Apple and play like you have a pair.

    13. Re:Cant compete, but sue. by PCM2 · · Score: 2

      In the current form of the tablet they did. And they have the patents to prove it.

      This lawsuit doesn't seem to be about patents, if the linked documents are correct. It appears to be about "community design" rights, which is a subcategory of trademarks in the EU. Apple is literally suing because the Galaxy Tab looks like an iPad. Imagine if another company had the same rights over something like, I dunno... T-shirts.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    14. Re:Cant compete, but sue. by scot4875 · · Score: 2

      Sony should latch onto this.

      They could start suing everyone who produced a video screen in a 16:9 ratio with a thin black bezel and a stand of some sort.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    15. Re:Cant compete, but sue. by Daniel+Phillips · · Score: 2

      Actually, Apple was like that right from the beginning but their spin has been sufficient to conceal it until recently. Learned my lesson in 1984 (the real one).

      --
      Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
    16. Re:Cant compete, but sue. by skjolber · · Score: 2

      It was clear to anyone in the mobile industry that someone would come up with a touch screen spanning the whole mobile phone in the years before the iPhone was introduced, in fact there were other attempts. The main reason Apple was the first to be successful, was the willingness of its customers to pay top dollars for its products, allowing for a product with an expensive touchscreen before others. The technical aspects were in no respects a revolution, see for example SonyEricsson (matrix menu system) and Nokia devices (GPS, 5MP camera, video recorder) from the time. No magic there, just marketing power - pushing the consumer.

      The other success factor, with the apple app store, or rather horizontal control over app creation and distribution, was a natural consequence of the dysfunctional approach of assigning distribution right to mobile phone operators (where were all the mobile applications for 2G? They were sitting on developer's machines without the correct signatures - mobile phone operators were incompetent). No magic there, just marketing power - pushing the operators.

      Of course Apple have been good, in fact they have been great, but (almost) first does mean they can or should bully others from making products with the same specifications, order of icons included, that is simply without merit. BTW: I have been programming JME (+Blackberry), Symbian, iOS and Android apps in order of appearance from 2003.

    17. Re:Cant compete, but sue. by Skal+Tura · · Score: 4, Informative

      This http://www.saares.net/verkkokauppa/files/nokia-e7-00.jpg doesn't look like an iPhone :)

      Oh crap! Someone thought of something like iPhone before it came out:
      http://alypuhelin.nettisivu.org/files/2011/05/nokia.jpg

      SUE SUE SUE SUE!
      http://www.brighthand.com/assets/4911.jpg
      It resembles an iPhone!
      How could they allow such devices as this to exist: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/PalmTX.jpg without a myriad of lawsuits!

      So apple took a PDA, wanted 24/7 connectivity, added GPRS to it and noticed it could also be used for calling. (Remember, original iPhones were VERY lacking in phone related features and finishing/polishing)

      Best smartphone i know was pretty much a prototype which slipped into mass production:
      http://blog.dialaphone.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/nokia-n900.JPG

      Before that there was N810 which actually predates iPhone:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N800

      Or for some really early work:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_770_Internet_Tablet

      Clearly Nokia 770 was too early on the market, before technology properly supported what they wanted to do.

      In any case, Apple simply took Mac OS X, stripped it down, took something already built, and added a few hippies to dev team (artists), seriously nothing else.

      Before you start your fandroid bashing, i've actually never used android before, getting my first android pad from customs tomorrow to see how it is, and i actually am receiving tomorrow my new phone: Nokia E7-00. Sure some iPhone could have been cheaper to buy, but i want something i can actually do whatever i want with AND make phone calls, and i want to make damn sure it will not fail on me for the next couple years :)

      Seriously, you need to take a few weeks off from the sunday mass @ your local apple store.

    18. Re:Cant compete, but sue. by shellbeach · · Score: 3, Informative

      What are you talking about? Samsung ripped off the look and feel of the iPad. It's Samsung that can't compete.

      Are people really okay with companies just blatantly ripping off other companies? I thought Slashdot trashed Microsoft for years over that.

      Oh, come on! If Samsung ripped off the look and feel of the iPad, then the iPad ripped off the look and feel of tablet PCs. Take a look a this picture of an HP tablet PC from 2006, and tell me how the iPad didn't copy the rounded rectangle shape you see there! Seriously, I know worshiping Steve Jobs makes you blind, but surely nobody could be that shortsighted ...

      Other than the basic shape, let's see ... The iPad has a single central button, that could be considered unique; does the Samsung have that? Nope. And the two OSes are completely different (you couldn't possibly compare iOS to Honeycomb, surely??)

      Incidentally, if MS was trashed for ripping off Mac OS's look'n'feel back in the day (and I don't remember this ever happening except from Apple fanbois, so plus ca change ...) then Apple should also have been trashed for ripping the original GUI look'n'feel from Xerox ...

      Apple has done some great and innovative things, no question. But they were neither the originators of the GUI concept nor the tablet concept, and to claim otherwise does them no credit. Right now they're in serious danger of being left behind in the innovation stakes. Already iOS is copying features from Android, and looking more as if it's trying to play catchup than leading the field as it used to. It's about time Apple stopped suing and started doing again.

  2. Design patents by tepples · · Score: 4, Informative

    From the article:

    Note that this preliminary injunction is all about a design-related intellectual property right, not about hardware or software patents.

    This might be confusing to readers in the United States, where exclusive rights in industrial design are treated as patents.

    Tagged as ohnoitsflorian

    1. Re:Design patents by David+Gerard · · Score: 2, Informative

      Anything from Florian should be regarded as primarily ad-banner trolling.

      --
      http://rocknerd.co.uk
    2. Re:Design patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And ignoring Florian is somehow making the injunction in Europe go away? People, grow up, please.

    3. Re:Design patents by dzfoo · · Score: 2

      Actually, read the sources: the injunction, or whatever it is called in Europe, is to stop selling the devices in all of the European Union countries, except Neatherlands.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/samsung/8691707/Samsung-Galaxy-Tab-10.1-blocked-in-Europe.html

      So apparently, there is such a thing as "injunction in Europe." It may be called differently thoug, but the effect is the same.

              dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
  3. Dont feed the troll by Local+ID10T · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Stop quoting Florian Mueller as news.

    --
    "You want to know how to help your kids? Leave them the fuck alone." -George Carlin
    1. Re:Dont feed the troll by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 2

      Could you elaborate why florian mueller is so evil? I don't get it.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    2. Re:Dont feed the troll by Nick+Ives · · Score: 3, Interesting

      He has a history of saying controversial things to drive traffic to his weblog. He had a long running feud with PJ and the Groklaw community in general where his analysis into the various SCO cases was consistently shown to be total crap.

      It's also very doubtful that he has any legal qualifications whatsoever. He's just an attention whore trying to scrape a living on Adsense revenue. He deserves pity, but not attention.

      --
      Nick
    3. Re:Dont feed the troll by GSloop · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Logical? I don't really consider skewing the facts as "logical." [And skewing the facts is the most charitable description I can use for his "truthiness."]

      Re: His arguments against Google and it's dispute with Sun/Oracle about Java. The examples he used of infringing files was just total BS.

      And that's just the first example.

      Every time I read his dreck, I think. Man, what axe does this guy have to grind. Every time, if I take the time to drill down through the layers of crap, I find there really wasn't anything to begin with.

      So, when that happens more than a few times one starts to simply say - "Ah, yeah that troll. I wish someone would check him into a mental institution - or worse."

      Sure, the boy who cried wolf all those times - we was eventually right. But by that point everyone had learned to ignore him. And probably more than a few were overjoyed that he got eaten. [Provided he did, which I assume is the outcome. Pity if it was only his sheep.]

      Moral: it '...shows that this is how liars are rewarded: even if they tell the truth, no one believes them.'

      -Greg

      Perhaps

    4. Re:Dont feed the troll by Nick+Ives · · Score: 2

      I think Mueller is particularly offensive because he's managed to make himself a story. I recall a thread either on Groklaw or LWN where it was suggested that he had been in private conversation with PJ regarding their different analysis; he was privately admitting to being a troll.

      I can't be bothered to go back and find all the links because life's too short. As to why single him out, well, it's simply because I remember him. I think if he wasn't so obnoxious about putting his name out there he might manage to go unnoticed whilst still getting traffic. Most other astroturfers have the common sense to submit stories as AC. If I could remember and identity them, I'd make a point of not clicking their links either.

      --
      Nick
  4. Re:How Humiliating For Apple To Be Reduced To This by bonch · · Score: 2

    Uh, why would it be humiliating for Apple to protect itself from getting ripped off? Every company protects itself from this. As an Apple spokesperson put it: “It’s no coincidence that Samsung’s latest products look a lot like the iPhone and iPad, from the shape of the hardware to the user interface and even the packaging. This kind of blatant copying is wrong, and we need to protect Apple’s intellectual property when companies steal our ideas.”

    Even Slashdot has stopped another website from copying its content in the past.

  5. Lifespan of this non patent. by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 2

    So what is the lifespan of this non patent? 5, 10, 20, 100 years?

  6. Pathetic Apple by loconet · · Score: 4, Informative

    The community design document can be found here. They're effectively preventing anyone from creating a mobile computer device that is rectangular in shape with round corners. Unbelievable.

    --
    [alk]
    1. Re:Pathetic Apple by cant_get_a_good_nick · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The community design document can be found here. They're effectively preventing anyone from creating a mobile computer device that is rectangular in shape with round corners. Unbelievable.

      Apple is both competing on trademarks and design innovation. People used to say the iPod would bomb, it's done well. People said the iPhone would bomb, it's done well. People used to say the iPad... well, you get the point. Apple is willing to innovate even where it will kill current product lines. Microsoft could never do a good tablet because it's worried about the Windows franchise. It could never do a good phone because it needs to look like desktop Windows. Steve Jobs to his credit is fine selling iPads even if they cannibalize MacBook sales. He made iTunes for Windows even though not having iTunes there was a carrot to buy a Mac - he's good with iTunes on Windows as long as it sold iPods. He killed the iPod Mini for the Nano because he felt Solid State was the way forward. Apple is many things, being pathetic not being one i ascribe to it

      Apple is fairly innovative, and pretty much every phone I see now looks like an iPhone with maybe a button or two. Whether you say that industrial design should be able to be protected by law, well that's a different argument. But the design element is one of the things that Apple can use, and it does.

      Apple is not a computer company, nor a phone company, nor a media company. It is a design company. It designs products that work. You may think you want a company run by geeks, but then you get Windows Zune, and Squirting files, and PlaysForSure. Of course Apple will fight for it's designs.

      In a weird way, in our financial society, Apple not using available trademarks may open them up to shareholder lawsuits - not doing all to protect shareholder value and all that. It's a sucky system. Apple is not manipulating it. It is using one of it's many ways to compete. In the courtroom, and in the market.

    2. Re:Pathetic Apple by MrDoh! · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This is an iPad design from 2004 on a TV show;
      https://plus.google.com/100241261662852079434/posts/12kf2e2BGjn

      --
      Waiting for an amusing sig.
    3. Re:Pathetic Apple by cant_get_a_good_nick · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If your idea of "design innovation" is a rectangle with round corners then... I ... I feel sorry for you. I really am.

      I know ACs tend to be trolls, but...
      I bring up the iPod, which went from 'it will never work' to 'we must stop Apple or it will control the world', I bring up the iPhone which went from 'it will never work' to 'we need to make sure other companies get the iPhone or else AT&T has an unfair advantage with the iPhone', I bring up the iPad which went from 'it will never work' to 'hey everybody, lets copy tablets' ... and you bring up rounded corners.

      Apple is a design company. Of course its products will look cool. If you think Apple's advantage is solely because of industrial design, then you are missing a much bigger picture. People don't buy an iPad because of rounded corners. People buy it because it works, simply.

      Of the major tech companies, Apple is best at creating things that seem simple to use. They have a simple external model that they expose to people. iOS is a microkernel, but people would never care. I don't know the filesystem for iOS, and I don't need to know. It just works, it's easy to get music, movies, and apps on it. It takes a lot of work and design to make a complicated system simple and consistent to end users. This is why people buy Apple products.

      Microsoft is a pool of geeks. They don't make it easy for end users to use stuff. Take something simple like ejecting a USB device on Windows vs on a Mac. I'm a geek, and on Windows, I still need to think about what drive it is and check the volume. Google is made of geeks, and they're a bit better, because they try to be very clean. But they're still not as good as Apple in making things simple.

  7. Just as the old saying goes by Opportunist · · Score: 2

    Those who can, do.
    Those who can't, sue.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  8. It's a preliminary injunction by Kupfernigk · · Score: 2, Interesting
    And a high risk strategy. Currently Apple is doing everything it can to inflate its share price in the short term while creating enemies for the long term. An EU design registration must be on features that are not function-related. If it can be shown that a design feature is in fact the result of an in optimisation, or required for compatibility with a pre-existing requirement, it can be invalidated.

    For instance, suppose I register a box with round corners. Now you show that the real reason for round corners is so that the box, designed to go in a pocket, will not put too much stress on the pocket material. It is a human factors improvement; it should not be usable as a design copyright.

    I'm sure that Samsung will be actively pursuing any way of showing that Apple's tablet design follows naturally from engineering factors for a portable computer. Meanwhile, Apple had better hope its new manufacturing partners don't start to worry about which of their products it might go after.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:It's a preliminary injunction by Dewin · · Score: 2

      For instance, suppose I register a box with round corners. Now you show that the real reason for round corners is so that the box, designed to go in a pocket, will not put too much stress on the pocket material.

      I know a lot of people who store their tablets/ereaders/etc in a backpack, which is basically a giant pocket on your back... and it does seem a very reasonable assumption.

      It also makes it easier to get into any sort of carrying case -- hard corners means you need to line it up perfectly, whereas round ones mean you can just get it mostly-right and it will slide in easier.

      So, even if the original intent of the design is for aesthetics, it does have practical use.

      --
      Of course nobody reads the FAQ! If people read the FAQ, the Questions wouldn't be so Frequently Asked.
  9. Apple statement by bonch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    “It’s no coincidence that Samsung’s latest products look a lot like the iPhone and iPad, from the shape of the hardware to the user interface and even the packaging. This kind of blatant copying is wrong, and we need to protect Apple’s intellectual property when companies steal our ideas.”

    Apple is in the right here. Certain companies just want to copy Apple's designs, slap Linux on them, and make money, and the only reason geek communities like Slashdot support it is because they run Linux, even though Slashdot has previously trashed other companies like Microsoft for ripping off people's ideas.

    Just look at what Android phones looked like before and after the iPhone was released in 2007. At first, they looked like Blackberries, and then all the sudden, they all looked like iPhones.

    1. Re:Apple statement by synapse7 · · Score: 2, Informative

      "... from the shape... companies steal our ideas." They are saying our phone is rectangular and nobody else can also produce a rectangular phone seems ridiculous(asinine, other 3-4 syllable adverbs), yet you agree with this?

    2. Re:Apple statement by synapse7 · · Score: 2

      When I said phone I also meant tablet.

    3. Re:Apple statement by whoever57 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Certain companies just want to copy Apple's designs, slap Linux on them, and make money

      Yes, Apple invented the mobile phone and it's not like Apple took an open-source operating system and used it for the core of their OS, is it?

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    4. Re:Apple statement by Baloroth · · Score: 4, Informative

      Pretty sure the fact that there was Android devices before the iPhone (incidentally Google bought Android in 2005... way before the iPhone) shows that Google isn't just copying their design and slapping Linux on it. Oh, and the base Android setup looks nothing like the base iPhone setup. Incidentally, you might want to look up the LG Prada, which had pictures of it released into the wild ~6 months before the iPhone (AFAICT) and looks quite similar. In fact, it's quite likely Apple copied that phone in making the iPhone (LG claimed Apple did, but never actually filed suit). So, Apple is in the right? I doubt it.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    5. Re:Apple statement by Solandri · · Score: 5, Informative

      Just look at what Android phones looked like before and after the iPhone was released in 2007.

      Well yeah, if you limit your sample to phones which didn't look like an iPhone before the iPhone was released, of course it's going to look like they copied the iPhone. As it turns out LG announced this phone to the public with pics 3 weeks before the iPhone. Black, touchscreen covering nearly the entire front surface, rectangular, rounded corners, and icons arranged in a grid. So if we were to take your argument at face value, LG deserves credit for the current form factor of smartphones, Apple just happened to make the most successful copy, and Apple fans are deliberately ignoring history to spread misguided claims that Apple invented it all and others are copying from Apple.

      The reality is that the current form factor is just the natural evolution of the smartphone due to a variety of factors, none of which has to do with a distinctive design that others are copying from LG (or Apple). You need to maximize screen size to comfortably browse the web on something the size of a phone, so the screen will cover almost the entire front surface. The screen needs to be black to maximize the contrast ratio - if you use a white screen you have to turn off the lights to maximize contrast. Capacitive touchscreens (which had just reached commercial critical mass, and the LG had before the iPhone) were responsive enough that they could replace trackballs or directional navigation keys. Rounded corners prevent it from poking you while in your pocket. And icons in a grid have been around since the Xerox Star IS in 1981; even earlier if you look outside computers. All of this is stuff which would be obvious to someone working in the field, and thus not worthy of patent protection.

    6. Re:Apple statement by __aaqvdr516 · · Score: 2

      You can't win over audiences without using all capital letters. Also, try using less facts.

      Here are some more useless facts showing how Apple used the industrial designs of Braun in many of their products. Who's copying now?
      http://gizmodo.com/343641/1960s-braun-products-hold-the-secrets-to-apples-future

  10. Not about patents by prefec2 · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is not about patents. It is about the design of the Galaxy Tab which looks so similar to the iPad. I do not know the correct English term. In Germany it is called Produktmusterschutz (copyright on product pattern/design/the art of appearance). Like you are not allowed to open a fast food restaurant McDonald's without asking the company of that particular name. As they own the brand and the design of the logo and shops etc.

    1. Re:Not about patents by DdJ · · Score: 3, Informative

      In the United States, this is called a "design patent". It's the mechanism by which such things as the shape of the coca cola bottle or the design of a font are protected.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent

  11. Blocked in the EU, you say? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It was only a couple days ago here on Slashdot I read several comments along the lines of "that sort of crap only happens in your American legal system, not in Europe". So one of two things must be true.

    1) Apple has a legitimate case; or

    2) European law has the same issues as American law.

    European Linux fans need to try to figure out which one it is without having their heads explode.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:Blocked in the EU, you say? by Pecisk · · Score: 2

      Judge doesn't care if Apple has legitimate case, he looks first if it does look like Apple can argue about something legal here. This action is to stop to cause damage to Apple (theoretically) due of illegal action. If Apple looses (and I bet it will, because otherwise they would have sued 6 months ago - now they are loosing market share and have launched lawyers to repair damage), they will open themselves to colossal civil suit with will eat trough their profits in Europe in minutes.

      What is interesting that I didn't know that Europe has similar kind of injunctions than US. Not that I'm against them - product look copycatting is more reasonable to be angry about than software patents - but this case really looks moot and just temporary measure to frighten Samsung.

      --
      user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
  12. Re:Why can't Samsung do the same? by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'd be a lot more broken up about it except that Han shot first. AFAIK, Apple only started filing suits to block Samsung's hardware sales after Samsung began ITC proceedings to block Apple's hardware sales in the U.S. Even in the best case, trying to block import of a major company's devices via the ITC is a case of mutually assured destruction, and in the worst case, it's throwing the hand grenade soon enough for the enemy to throw it back.

    --

    Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  13. Shoe is on another foot now? by macraig · · Score: 2

    Perhaps Samsung should have left well enough alone a month ago?

    This crap sickens me. Is it possible that our economies are becoming less rather than more ethical as civilization (d|)evolves?

    1. Re:Shoe is on another foot now? by _xeno_ · · Score: 2

      Yeah, except if you recall, Samsung's move was in retaliation of Apple attempting to ban imports of the Galaxy Tab into the US using the exact same crap reasoning they're getting away with in Europe.

      Except as far as I know, they weren't able to get a preliminary injunction in the US, and instead are still in US court suing Samsung over rounded corners and arranging icons in a grid.

      Samsung's patents, on the other hand, are based on actual technology. Whether they're really patent worthy or not I can't really say, but they're actual technology patents, and not rounded corners.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
  14. Re:Cronies... by Renraku · · Score: 2

    Apple hardware is somewhat expensive and hard to replicate to begin with. They do use high quality parts. My guess is that some other people have tried to make clones using cheaper parts and they've fallen apart in their hands

    --
    Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
  15. I think Gene Roddenberry beat Jobs to it. by shugah · · Score: 2
    --
    If you aren't part of the solution, then there is good money to be made prolonging the problem
  16. Just a reminder: Samsung isn't innocent here by JonathanF · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Remember what the Galaxy Tab 10.1 looked like in February this year? It was fatter and it only somewhat looked like what Apple was doing.

    And then... the iPad 2 came. You can tell that Samsung completely freaked out that it would lose to Apple, because it almost immediately said it "would not be outdone" by the iPad's new design:

    http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/03/24/samsung.says.galaxy.tab.101.thinner.to.beat.ipad/

    Yep. Samsung openly admitted that it was going to change the shape of its tablet because of the iPad 2, just two weeks after it had unveiled its own work. And sure enough, in March, the Galaxy Tab 10.1 was suddenly a lot thinner and looked remarkably much more like the iPad 2. I was at the CTIA's spring show, where they first showed off the remake: they even made it a source of pride how quickly they'd changed the look and had a glass case showing the old version and the new one.

    I would personally keep the Galaxy Tab 10.1 on shelves because it's different enough, but there's no question that the model you see now wouldn't look the way it does if it weren't for Apple.

    1. Re:Just a reminder: Samsung isn't innocent here by organgtool · · Score: 2

      Samsung openly admitted that it was going to change the shape of its tablet because of the iPad 2, just two weeks after it had unveiled its own work. And sure enough, in March, the Galaxy Tab 10.1 was suddenly a lot thinner and looked remarkably much more like the iPad 2.

      You're absolutely right. Once one company makes a minor incremental improvement such as making a device thinner, nobody else should be able to copy the concept of making thinner devices. They should be stuck making thick, outdated devices. That's how technology progresses.

      Also, you act as if making devices thinner is as simple as making a smaller case. There are a TON of technological challenges to fit all of those components into a smaller space.

      but there's no question that the model you see now wouldn't look the way it does if it weren't for Apple.

      Yes, that is how the market works. Competition forces companies to find ways to make more powerful devices in smaller form factors. That doesn't mean that companies should be able to get government protection to impede the progress of their competitors.

    2. Re:Just a reminder: Samsung isn't innocent here by Dragonslicer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "We have to make our tablet thinner because the iPad 2 is thinner" infringes a design patent? Isn't making the device as thin and light as reasonably possible an obvious goal for any handheld device? That's like saying Intel is stealing ideas from AMD when Intel tries to increase CPU clock speeds to keep up with AMD (and vice versa).

    3. Re:Just a reminder: Samsung isn't innocent here by Solandri · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I would personally keep the Galaxy Tab 10.1 on shelves because it's different enough, but there's no question that the model you see now wouldn't look the way it does if it weren't for Apple.

      The Galaxy Tab 10.1 also has a higher res screen than the iPad 2. If the iPad3 or iPad4 comes out with a higher-res screen, are you going to use the same reasoning you just did and claim "there's no question" that Apple wouldn't have increased the resolution "if it weren't for Samsung"?

  17. Wrong, Apple shot first by _xeno_ · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You're wrong, Apple started this whole mess waaaaay back in April by suing Samsung over Android phones that they claimed "looked like an iPhone."

    It was only later that Samsung started filing suits against Apple. I mean, hell, your own link mentions that the battle has been ongoing!

    Apple started this. Samsung just refused to take it lying down.

    --
    You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
    1. Re:Wrong, Apple shot first by dgatwood · · Score: 2

      I'm not arguing that Apple was necessarily right for filing the initial suit (as I don't know enough about the discussions leading up to it to make that call). I'm just pointing out that Samsung had the opportunity for proportional response, and instead chose the nuclear option. Up until that point, AFAIK (unless the mainstream media just hasn't reported on the case adequately), the lawsuit from Apple was asking for financial damages, which probably could have turned into an out-of-court settlement if Samsung had offered some sort of concessions. I have no idea what Apple would have actually asked them to do in exchange for dropping the suit, but I'd be surprised if the two parties were not well aware of the other side's demands.

      As soon as Samsung took it to the next level and started trying to block importation, that's when things got ugly. Samsung made that choice. The decision to jump from a patent violation lawsuit to blocking the other company's ability to do business was entirely Samsung's, as far as I can tell. That's why I referred to it as mutually assured destruction in the best case, self destruction in the worst case. Taking such drastic steps is almost always counterproductive.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  18. Re:so by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    i think we have to thank apple for invention of 'the rectangle' and 'rounded corners', since apparently they were the inventors of these very important concepts

    In a computing context, they were actually :

    "Steve suddenly got more intense. "Rectangles with rounded corners are everywhere! Just look around this room!". And sure enough, there were lots of them, like the whiteboard and some of the desks and tables. Then he pointed out the window. "And look outside, there's even more, practically everywhere you look!". He even persuaded Bill to take a quick walk around the block with him, pointing out every rectangle with rounded corners that he could find.

    When Steve and Bill passed a no-parking sign with rounded corners, it did the trick. "OK, I give up", Bill pleaded. "I'll see if it's as hard as I thought." He went back home to work on it.

    Bill returned to Texaco Towers the following afternoon, with a big smile on his face. His demo was now drawing rectangles with beautifully rounded corners blisteringly fast, almost at the speed of plain rectangles. When he added the code to LisaGraf, he named the new primitive "RoundRects". Over the next few months, roundrects worked their way into various parts of the user interface, and soon became indispensable"

  19. I disagree with most of your points, Apple Troll. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    GTFO, Apple Troll. Taking a look at your comments, it's obvious all you talk about is Macs, and I would say you're somewhat biased in that regard.

    Regardless of that point, I own a Macbook Pro, but I, unlike most fanboys, can at least remain somewhat unopinionated when it comes to realizing the evil biz tactics they employ. I'm a industrial design engineer working as an interaction designer these days, but I can tell you that making something that is less than 1/3 of an inch thick, with a rectangular shape, will automatically be hard to differentiate from another rectangular shape with 1/3 of an inch's thickness. If there are similar colors, even harder. And, speaking as an industrial design engineer, I will also point out that any piece of hardware that size that wants to have a lifespan of at least a few years is going to be dark-colored or simply black. The finish is designed to keep the device looking pretty for as long as its lifespan will allow.

    Please stop being the normal consumer troll that goes, "Hey, those two things look similar. I'll just take it at face value that one of them copied the other, instead of doing some introspection on the design, and reaching a more valid conclusion which expresses an understanding of the individual facets of a design and why the exist."

    Troll.

  20. Evolution & patents by StripedCow · · Score: 2

    The whole principle of evolution is that good ideas are copied and bad ideas die. This principle works so well that even mother nature uses it. Now, thanks to the patent system, this brilliant idea is basically being defeated.

    --
    If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.