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Pakistan Lets China View US Stealth Technology
Oswald McWeany writes "Tensions between the U.S. and Pakistan have moved up a notch in light of news that Pakistan allowed China to examine the downed stealth helicopter used in the operation to kill Osama bin Laden. Pakistan also provided Chinese intelligence with samples of the 'stealth skin.' 'Pakistan enjoys a close relationship with China, which is a major investor in telecommunications, ports and infrastructure in the country.'"
I would say that's just what you get for leaving your stuff in someone else's house.
I'm sure this wasn't really a surprise to the US. That's why the seals spent valuable time doing their best to destroy the helicopter.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Is it possible that the US left that helicopter there in order to mislead interested parties on stealth countermeasures and development?
Might that helicopter be, in essence, a doomed spy?
I'm not sure why anyone didn't see this coming.... I was actually surprised they didn't send some locals to clean up the chopper rests. Either that, or it's really not that advanced. Radar-reducing skins are known, and the shape didn't seem that out of the ordinary. Oh look, a cover over the tail rotor to reduce radar signature. The biggest deal would be the electronics. I can only hope they were reduced to dust.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
The "Fundamental" law of religion is that the more Fundmentalist one is the more literally religious one is.
Pakistan was founded as a Muslim state, and it is not a reasonable expectation for it to work against Islam in Afghanistan by supporting the heretical idea of secular government. The only reason Islamabad gave the US the time of day in the past was to obtain arms to use against its mortal enemy India which was buddies with the Soviets during the Cold War.
The Cold War is finished, and Islamabad has everything to gain from a Talibanistan protecting its flank so it can prepare for war with India.
As Uncle Sugar wises up under pressure, Islamabad must suck up to China.
India would be wise to make buddies with the US after the US-Pak relationship collapses. If it comes to war, US assets could help India take out Pak nukes which are a menace to civilization. China would have no interest in intervention since its own Muslims are a problem more easily dealt with if Pakistan becomes an ashtray.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Boo hoo, indeed.
There is no need for the US to keep financing the Pakistani military. The upper echelons of their military is living high on the hog, based on the US aid, and and as result has no incentive to end the war. The upper echelons are not suffering any pain, it's the lower echelons and the normal people that are paying the price. And since they know what the upper echelons are doing, they hate them (and the US) for that. Nukes or no nukes, there is no reason for the US to keep the river of money flowing, certainly not in these times. Leave Pakistan to its own devices. Their military knows what the Mossad, the Indians and their proxies will do them and their families if they let things get out of hand.
Pakistan's and America's relationship is faltering. The fact is, that pakistan is harboring terrorists PURPOSELY.
To be honest, part of the issues belong to us. W/neo-cons gave India access to 'civil' nuke tech, but not to pakistan. Once we opened that up, we basically told pakistan that we did not trust them. Of course, that was true. We don't. And we are helping what they consider their mortal enemy (even though it is also their 'brother').
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
It's only $300M because there was an entire multidecade R&D program behind it and there have only been a few units produced, the marginal cost of a unit is probably no more than $60-70M (base unit is $44M, add 50% for materials and advanced electronics). Heck they might also be assigning the cost of the Comanche program to those few units since to my eye it looks like the took the Comanche tech and applied it to a Black Hawk.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Yay! Cheap knock-off stealth choppers for everyone!!
Did US and Pakistan have some kind of deal where they are not allowed to improve their technology with their friends if US happens to dump their trash all over the country? US would do exactly the same with UK or their other girlfriends.
Well, Pakistan does have an "accept several hundred billion dollars a year from the US" deal. If China's making them a better offer, then Pakistan's actions make sense.
I am not a crackpot.
"One can not truly appreciate Shakespeare until you have heard it in it's original Klingon" -Star Trek
Did US and Pakistan have some kind of deal where they are not allowed to improve their technology with their friends if US happens to dump their trash all over the country? US would do exactly the same with UK or their other girlfriends.
Well, Pakistan does have an "accept several hundred billion dollars a year from the US" deal. If China's making them a better offer, then Pakistan's actions make sense.
You are assuming short-term monetary gain is the most important factor in the deal.
At the time, it was an expected reaction.
The rational thing to do for monetary gain would have been to offer the stealth tail to the highest bidder, with a higher premium required if someone wants no photographs.
But Pakistan was really pissed at the US. Think how we would feel if the Mexican or Canadian army send a special forces team into West Point or Fort Worth to arrest a drug kingpin without our consent. Now multiply it by at least ten (due to more anti-American sentiment in Pakistan to begin with).
-- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
Well every machine has some point at which it will fail. If ours were indestructible/undetectable, it wouldn't be laying in the middle of Pakistan
No the US had the deal to tell the Pakistan government before shooting someone.
And the deal going the other way was to A) not harbor a wanted criminal, and B) assist in finding said criminal. They failed on both counts.
Years ago, we discussed this in my organic chemistry class during a lab exercise using GC-MS (gas chromatography - mass spectrometry). Just because you know what something is made of does not mean you can replicate the process that makes it. That is why things that matter a great deal of money to certain businesses such as the formula for coca-cola or the colonel's 11 special spices are still secure despite their wide-spread availability. Things may have changed, but it still seems like most of material science can be compared to one way functions so widely used in cryptography. It is relatively easier to make something by putting things together than it is to reverse the process in a meaningful way.
Stay sentient. Don't drink bad milk.
Well, Pakistan does have an "accept several hundred billion dollars a year from the US" deal. If China's making them a better offer, then Pakistan's actions make sense.
You put that in quotations as if it was a quoted fact... but several hundred billion dollars a year? The US yearly defense budget is a bit over $600B, Pakistan doesn't get half of that. The real number is $1-2B. Still a lot, but off by a couple orders of magnitude there ;)
Though to your point, the US just withheld $800M of that yearly aid last month after the latest concerns about Pakistan's military allegiances. Looks like that might backfire if they just get money from China instead.
It's China's soft diplomacy backed by hard currency (artificially weakened) versus US hard diplomacy by weak currency (artificially pimped and by count on the advantage of world reserve currency and unrivaled military and technological advance). But it's working for China.
China's huge dollar position is both it's strength as it's weakness, as value deteriorates. China is trying to put their money in foreign investment and soft diplomacy to gain influence in Africa, weak economies of some European countries (for example Greece) and now also Pakistan, openly, without any worries knowing it is crossing US interest. Outsourcing productivity is followed by knowledge, science and technology, in contrast with popular belief that such follow up doesn't occur. It's starts with shameless copying is the prerequisite of understanding and improvement, this is the present case for China much as it was for Japan in the past. With the only difference that it is maybe even more easy for Chinese companies, as the state is shareholder. The Chinese does business with everyone, not asking too many questions or human right issues. For those who not know, China has been most of her existence been the world power state. They have a great history in diplomatic cases.
Your assumptions are all wrong.
First off, if Mexico or Canada knew a Drug kingpin was hiding in the US, and told the US, the US would have apprehended the guy/gal. This is NOT the case in Pakistan, where people in the government were and ARE actively helping Taliban and most likely even Bin Ladin.
This is more like the US under Obama and Holder supplying guns to Mexican Drug Lords, and not letting Mexico know we are doing it. Mexico should be pissed, but we're bigger and more organized so they just send patrols "off course" into US territory occasionally.
The reason we give tons of money to Pakistan's Military is to keep the NUKES out of Al Queda's hands, assuming they don't already have any. Pakistan is not our friend.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Tongue in cheek.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
The copter was not a prop. So I stopped reading the rest of your drivel right there.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
The US funds the Pakistani military for their OWN benefit, not for Pakistan's. It's leverage, same as China.
US already knew China had huge investment in Pakistan so they have no one to blame but themselves. They know Pakistan is of higher strategic importance than China knowing how a stealth chopper was built.
The story has a compound built for bin Laden.
You assume that there is a benefit or obligation of intelligence agencies and "secret operations teams" in supplying you with facts.
You are like a peasant, regarding the mediaeval church.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
The "copter" was such a setup. Look at the photos. A prop.
What am I looking for? A stamp that says "Movie prop helicopter: DO NOT USE ON A REAL HELICOPTER!"
Just to tamp down the tin foil hat on your head a bit more firmly:
"why are there no photos of the body released?" Errrr...because it would have incensed Muslims even more now that the U.S. whacked their secret hero?
"And why was the body dumped at sea?" So as not to create a memorial for a martyr. On the other hand, with the right CIA front company, the U.S. could have cleaned up on the Muslim equivalent of votive lights, and statuettes...with that timeless Muslim fanatical Index Finger Raised seen in every photo-op of a would be Muslim terrorist wannabe Big Banana.
"Also, why didn't the "best of the best" simply subdue him since all accounts say his was unarmed and put him on trial like Saddam was put on trial." And let Dershowitz or some other slimeball lawyer realize the Deal of the Century and turn the trial into O.J. Simpson's trial but with nuclear powered steroids? Yep, Dershowitz is Jewish...and it wouldn't have prevented Osama from realizing how to use the dumbass for his own ends.
"Certainly that would be in the best interests of Afghanistan, being able to put him on trial." Why? What did he ever do to Afghanistan other than supply shock troups for the Taliban? The same Taliban that were widely admired by the Pashtuns who thought that stealing the rest of Afghanistan from the Tajiks, Uzbeks, Turkmen, Hazaras, and a host of smaller peoples was a fine thing...as long as the Taliban were winning. The fact that the Taliban were slaughtering thousands yearly was completely beside the point to the Pashtuns.
Get one thing straight. Osama always realized that publicity was the key to his megalomanical designs on absolute power. He played the world's press like a symphony. The U.S. military, to their credit, realized this and decided a low-key death and almost sublime burial in the lost wisps of time was the best they could do for the boy.
The NYT and BBC prefaced their stories with the qualifiers "probably" and "may have", while these disappeared from the Slashdot summary. The reports may well turn out to be true, but the summary is assigning a level of certainty about the claims that does not yet exist.
Acceptance of this sort of distortion seems to have become so routine in Slashdot's selection of story submissions, it sometimes feels a bit like reading the Daily Mail.
Ah, answering a question with mocking. I see I have fallen victim to a troll. Well, good job I suppose. Add one notch to your keyboard. You have gained a point in your bizarre, annoying game, may you find lasting happiness as a direct result of me foolishly taking you seriously.
Because they are a nuclear power with a large fundamentalist population ruled by a military oligarchy. So the US gives that oligarchy shitloads of money to both bribe them for support and try to keep them in power to prevent another Iran.
Of course, the US gave lots of money and weapons to the Iranian government before the revolution there, and in the end all that did was make the new regime both heavily armed and even more pissed off...
They're our friends! We need to up the payments to them so they know we mean it.
The Corporate states of America ran Russia out of money, now they're doing the same to US.
Long live the banksters! May they fly like the American flag, hanging from a pole.
The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.