Slashdot Mirror


The Press Reacts To Steve Jobs' Departure — in 1985

harrymcc writes "After reading a ton of stories about Steve Jobs' decision to step down as Apple's CEO, I turned the clock back and read a bunch about the first time he did so — unwillingly — in 1985. Some observers thought his departure would have little impact on Apple; others seemed to believe it was a great idea. And the Washington Post's T.R. Reid figured out that an Apple that chose to eject Jobs would be a profoundly lesser place."

18 of 207 comments (clear)

  1. A few people had it right by backslashdot · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The quote from Nolan Bushnell at the end pretty much sums up the truth.

    “Where is Apple’s inspiration going to come from? Is Apple going to have all the romance of a new brand of Pepsi?”

    LOL

  2. Let's not forget ... by MacTO · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Steve Jobs who was forced to leave Apple in the 1980s is not the same Jobs who returned to Apple in the 1990s. By the time of his return he was a much more experienced businessman, having not just Apple under his belt but NeXT and Pixar.

    We should also remember that the 1990s were a very tough time for Apple, even with Jobs as the CEO. He undoubtedly had acquired a lot more experience during that phase. He also had a fair bit of luck on his side. (IIRC, the iMac was basically handed to him from the previous guard and no one saw the iPod for what it would become when it was introduced.)

    The tone of the article seems to be that the departure of Jobs was the downfall of Apple, but it may have been the saviour of Apple. And even though we can probably agree that Jobs brought Apple back from the dead, he certainly had some helping hands.

    1. Re:Let's not forget ... by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, and I'm sure I'll get hate for saying this, it was Gates who saved his ass. Of course we know Gates didn't do it out of the goodness of his heart, he did it to keep from being the only OS company and thus a big ass target to regulators but he did save his ass.

      Not only did Gates cut a big fat check for Apple stock which at the time really wasn't doing squat, but also there was serious fears that nobody was gonna waste money developing for a "dying" platform. Having the head of one of the largest software companies on the planet come out and say 'I think the Mac has a great future and we at Microsoft are committed to supporting the Mac with our software" and then announcing a long term deal to supply MS Office really killed a lot of the skittishness. After that at the next MacWorld you saw tons of companies jump on board because if MSFT thought there was money to be made? Maybe there was.

      Don't get me wrong, once Jobs had the money he was fricking brilliant, killing all the huge lines of confusing plastic crap and making a small line of sleek and sexy products, one hit after another. But when Jobs first came back there was serious talk that Apple was a "dead" system (I know, funny now right?) and that Jobs didn't have a prayer of stopping the death spiral. Gates may be a ruthless bastard but if he hadn't helped out Apple at the right time and gave Jobs the funds and breathing room he needed to rebuild the line things could have turned out VERY differently.

      I just wonder how well Cook is gonna be able to break balls and steer the ship, because from everything I've read he has been more of a supply chain guy. Apple under Jobs has always been Steve's vision of perfection, like it or not, so we'll just have to see if after the products that were already in the pipeline have come and gone if Cook can come up with new markets to slaughter like Jobs did.

      Either way Via Con Dios Steve, you truly deserve to be in that tiny room of visionaries that can say "I changed the way things are done".

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    2. Re:Let's not forget ... by MacTO · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Huh. Mac OS 8 and Mac OS 9 were both released under Jobs' guard. Apple was able to sell slick looking hardware with it. (The iMac G3 may look dated today, but it was something out of this world in the late 1990s.)

      Incidentally, Apple was already working on a replacement (Copland). Even though it was ultimately deemed a failure, Apple worked on it for roughly 2 years. In contrast, it took nearly 4 years to get Mac OS X out the door and most Mac users wouldn't even touch that until 10.2 came out. Would Copland have saved the day if it was released? I don't know, but it may have.

      And what is it with people's inabilities to distinguish between non-multitasking and cooperative multitasking these days?

    3. Re:Let's not forget ... by tlhIngan · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, that $150M Microsoft invested in Apple was purely a confidence move. It basically told investors "Apple is here to stay".

      Apple didn't the money ($150M? They still had at least $10B in the bank). But the public needed to see that Microsoft was investing in a "dying platform". They tossed money in (and got double back a few years later when they cashed out), but more importantly, they committed development resources.

      Investors saw the cash as "Apple can't be dying if Microsoft was willing to put up money", and developers saw the Office and IE commitment as "the two biggest apps on the planet - for Mac!".

      Really a brilliant business maneuver - the money was a lot to most people, but for Apple it barely even registered on the stockholder's reports and was barely needed.

      Business is a confidence game, and Apple wasn't inspiring any. By getting Microsoft to make a trivial investment, the confidence in Apple skyrocketed.

    4. Re:Let's not forget ... by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Would Copland have saved the day if it was released?

      Definitely not. Copland was an interesting piece of software, and certainly much more modern than the 8 nanokernel (and it might even have been more modern than parts of Mac OS X, even—I'm not really sure), but the OS itself is not the whole story. In fact, it's arguably the least important part of the story.

      Mac OS X wasn't just a replacement for Mac OS. It was also a usable UNIX. Copland certainly wouldn't have drawn the Linux/UNIX crowd the way NeXT did, and I think that had a real impact on the perception of Apple in the enterprise.

      This, in turn, drove the intense popularity of Apple's laptops among the geek crowd (when other manufacturers' laptops weren't doing nearly as well). In an era when Apple was only three or four percent of the market, you could walk into a UNIX/Linux conference and half of the laptops would be Macs. Why? Because geeks wanted a usable laptop running some sort of UNIX variant, and running a laptop in Linux generally sucked at the time.

      That popularity, in turn, caused all those geeks to recommend these things to their friends and families, which played a significant part in the rapid decline of desktop computing in favor of mobile computing in the first part of the last decade. The rapid shift towards laptops, in turn, was the reason Apple gave up on PowerPC and transitioned to Intel hardware—a transition that made Apple's computers immensely more popular almost overnight. How much of this was actually driven by Mac OS X being UNIX, I couldn't begin to guess, but I'm certain it was nonzero.

      Also, NeXT brought with it functioning code for i386, and a functional set of developer tools (the GNU toolchain). The Intel transition would have been a lot harder with Copland, not to mention the whole ARM thing on iOS. Can you imagine if Apple were building iOS using CodeWarrior?

      Finally, NeXT brought with it a lot of new blood. Apple doesn't usually acquire companies for technology. It acquires companies because it wants their employees. From what I hear from people who worked at Apple in that era, the NeXT merger created all sorts of culture clash initially, but in the end, it resulted in a much stronger company than either company could have become on its own.

      And, of course, the merger brought back Steve Jobs. You can argue all you want about whether Steve actually made decisions that no one else could have or would have made, but ultimately that's not what matters. What matters is that one of the guys who founded the company was back at the helm. Psychologically speaking, I think that did more to get Apple back on its feet than anything else, including the NeXT merger, including any single decision that Steve made, including even the advent of the iPhone.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  3. Jobs' less publicized skill ... by perpenso · · Score: 5, Insightful

    R.I.P. Apple, not Jobs. (I really hope for the best for this guy.)

    Most people are familiar with Jobs' skill with respect to product design and marketing. However he possess a less publicized skill that is at least as important than the preceding, probably more important. He assembles teams of really exceptional people to implement his ideas. Once upon a time that would have been the Mac design team. Today that would be Apple's executive leadership. He is handing things off to an extremely capable senior management team.

    He is not handing Apple over to a sugar water salesman brought on board to provide adult supervision, he is handing Apple over to his hand pick proteges.

    1. Re:Jobs' less publicized skill ... by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He is not handing Apple over to a sugar water salesman brought on board to provide adult supervision

      LOL. Too right. And that's what their (retarded) board thought they needed, circa (IIRC) 1985ish. I remember reading the preface to a Playboy interview of him from that era, where the author was warned, "Be prepared, you're about to be hyped by the best". And he was/is. Karl fucking Rove wakes up in the middle of the night sobbing, wishing he could spin a story the way Steve Jobs can.

      He assembles teams of really exceptional people to implement his ideas

      He assembles teams of really exceptional people to brutalize into doing exactly what he wants; luckily, he's usually 98% correct.
      FTFY

      Fact is, Steve must be dying (and KNOWS it) or he wouldn't be letting go of the reins, because he's THAT much of a control freak. Apple without him is going to become Ford without Henry, IBM without a Watson. NOT, not, not, a Microsoft without a Gates; Bill has never been a visionary, just a sharky cutthroat businessman. Steve, much as people can hate on him, is the real deal, he can look into the future, like an Edwin Land, (if you don't know who he is, shame on you, turn in your geek card) and CREATE a market around a new idea of his of a product/market that never existed before he dreamed it up. Sure, the haters will claim the Lisa was really the Xerox Star, but can they hand-wave away the iPod, the iPhone? No, I didn't think so. Much as the whole industry wants to hate on him, Steve has done more than Woz, Gates, Bushnell and Kay together to make the world we live in happen.

    2. Re:Jobs' less publicized skill ... by adamofgreyskull · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Fact check. Sorry if this makes me a "hater" or a "hand-waver" but there *was* a market, however small, for portable mp3 players before the iPod. The Diamond Rio and the Creative NOMAD are the most memorable fore-runners. Similarly, there was already an almost 10 year-old market for "smart" phones before the iPhone came along, satisfied by offerings from Nokia, Microsoft, Palm and Blackberry. Or didn't you know that? Maybe you need to turn in your geek card? ;)

      Jobs steered Apple in the right direction; he recognised areas where they could excel and perhaps because of that you can claim he's a visionary, but he didn't invent (or even "dream up" the concept of) portable mp3 players or smart-phones, just directed his employees to produce marketably "better" ones.

    3. Re:Jobs' less publicized skill ... by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yup. And there was a market for "horseless carriages" before Henry Ford standardized them and started mass-producing them. And Maxwell had a pretty good handle on electromagnetic propagation before Marconi got involved. If you can't accept the notion that Jobs had a revolutionary, not (just) evolutionary, effect on mp3 players and cell phones, then you simply haven't been paying attention. I'm hardly one to be worshiping at the "Steve Jobs is our god, lead us where thou wilt" altar, I, at least, am willing to give credit where it's due. I'm not necessarily a fan of his, but I have to admit, "Steve, he's a visionary; Woz, he's an engineer".

    4. Re:Jobs' less publicized skill ... by Grygus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I was an early adopter in the mp3 player scene and I don't think it's at all an exaggeration to say that iPod revolutionized the market. I owned a Rio PMP 300 and later upgraded to a Creative Nomad Jukebox, but it wasn't until I got one of the earlier iPod models that I thought mp3 players had really arrived. The others were first, yes, and they did work, but very few people were all that interested until the iPod combined a small form factor and a large capacity. The interface was pretty cool at the time, too. Shame they were so expensive, but it didn't keep them from changing the way most people (and some manufacturers) thought about portable music.

      Again, you're right that smartphones do not owe their existence to the iPhone, but when the iPhone released there was nothing else quite like it; now virtually the entire market resembles the Apple product. You need a special sort of denial to say that the device wasn't highly influential. Smartphones as they exist today very obviously owe a great deal to the iPhone. Android in particular seems unlikely ever to have been designed had the iPhone not been released and been such a market success.

  4. I remember the first time CmdrTaco stepped down by decora · · Score: 5, Funny

    People said that slashdot couldn't survive without his inspiration. Boy, were they wrong. It wasn't a week after he left that OneSpot was brought on board, and with it's "Patented community ranking surfaces the best content for your audience" slashdot had "Increased revenue by 5 - 10% increased traffic".

    Next thing you knew it, we were able to click through and buy all of our favorite products, right from the slashdot home page. Things like tips on trimming belly fat, and mortgages and student loans to online Military History PHD programs. It was like the shackles were finally taken off, and slashdot could really become what it was meant to be all along - a tech industry juggernaut!

    Shareholders were so pleased, that the applauded the new CEO in a 10 minute standing ovation at the annual convention. Next came the integration with facebook, and the doing away with this whole 'anonymity' thing - long a bastion behind which trolls and troublemakers hid their identity in order to make pointless First Posts and disgusting comments about popular actresses. Facebooks 'real name' policy greatly increased the level of discourse on slashdot. Noted journalists from well respected networks like G4 were then able to come on slashdot without fearing a mass wave of heckling from the anonymous coward crowd.

    It was good to see more actual tech reviews on slashdot. Instead of the political stuff - I mean do we really need another hipster whining about how corporations are responsible for everything from child malnutrition to global warming? - we got actual information about the latest products, like the Olympus PEN E-PM1 Mini or the Xbox 360 ESPN app. That is what I had always wanted in a tech site, and that is what we got more of when Malda left.

    Things went great for a while. Profits were up, complaints were down. The site was harmonious, a word I picked up from a Chinese friend. You could finally browse slashdot for a whole day without seeing a single pointless flamewar. vi vs emacs? Who cares - we had all moved on to Eclipse and MSVC, hadn't we? These sort of 'beyond the pale' discussions got put right back where they belonged. Back in the pale.

    Those were slashdots 'golden years'. Then Malda won the lottery in 2015 and came back. Oh the horror. It devolved back, back into the same tired old arguments and debates. People disagreeing with each other. Who wants to read that? All I want to know is which new plastic glowing box I am supposed to buy. Is that too much to ask from a website that advertises itself as News for Nerds?

  5. Re:Brilliant idea! by icebike · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Under Tim Cook, pinch hitting for Jobs, Apple did very very well.

    Look people, this is not 1985 any more. The bean counters that had control of the company back then are no longer in control, (one has to ask who put them in control in the first place back then...).

    This a different Apple, and one that does not rely on Jobs.

    Its time for him to move out of the day to day control.

    In spite of the rampant fanboyism Jobs is hurting Apple more than he is helping it these days. The ever tightening lock down, the clutching greed to get 30% of everything that comes on to the device, the total restructuring of the Ebook industry to serve Apple's interest and kill off the First Sale Doctrine, and the total paranoia about petty patent claims is seriously damaging Apple's brand. They have become what they sought to destroy in their Iconic Superbowl Commercial. All of that was Jobs.

    Under Cook significant new features were added to IOS, long blocked by Jobs until he had to have his "hormonal imbalance" operated upon. New application models (like in-app purchases) were allowed into the App store, since shut down by Jobs.

    Frankly this all things to Chairman Mao nonsense is getting a little tiresome. Cult figures are so over done. All we are missing here is the Che Guevara tee shirt of Steve. Oh, wait, too late.

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  6. Re:Let's not forget ... Schindler's List by epine · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Schindler: There's no way I could have known this before, but there was always something missing. In every business I tried, I can see now it wasn't me that had failed. Something was missing. Even if I'd known what it was, there's nothing I could have done about it, because you can't create this thing. And it makes all the difference in the world between success and failure.
    Emilie: Luck.
    Schindler: War.

    Steve was ahead of his time in the 1980s. He was a trendy gadget maker stuck in the PC business. His early attempts to gadgify the PC mostly lead to vanity art, and vanity will only get you 10% of the market, unless you can pull it out of your pocket in public display.

    On his HID aesthetic, it turns out the mouse had a correct solution: one button for selecting, a second button to summon a menu of actions (where your eyes are already looking), and a wheel for scrolling in between the two buttons. This is simpler than your telephone, simpler than your steering wheel, simpler than your stereo/VCR/TV/digital alarm clock/wrist watch. Hardly anyone who wasn't suffering post-traumatic Luddite syndrome would have found such a mouse difficult to operate, even in 1985. He directed his wrath at the mouse, when he should have directed his wrath at the worthless scroll-bars, which mostly take up valuable space to little effect, though we have a lot more of that now. He was always catering to "out of box" comfort zone, rather the comfort zone people grow into when they finally figure out how to make the hay fly. Just what everyone in the 1980s really needed: a good $4000 in-store experience for ten minutes, followed by three years of window thrashing.

    Way back, I had an opportunity to visit Parc and sit in front of what I recall as a Xerox Dorado (which I vaguely recall as consisting of $50,000 of ECL circuitry--I've recently done some LVPECL design work, and I *know* what that implies on the global warming front). The mouse had three buttons and was hideously complicated during my first ten minutes of grokage. I can understand why Apple didn't replicate a three-button Jack-in-the-Box for your average consumer.

    But for Jobs, far enough was never far enough until it was too far. Step two: defend the decision as if moral rectitude and reproductive fitness hangs in the balance. The winning conditions for Steve Jobs was a device that fits in your pocket which costs roughly $1000/year to operate. This was the business he was really building in the first place, long before this model was right for the world.

    Jobs paced himself more or less the same way as Andre Agassi's father. Andre had a rough patch, but seems to have recovered, for the most part, and there was much success along with the hardship. Jobs never wanted the PC to have a healthy adolescence, in which order arises from chaos. Which is fine, but he scorned the people getting on with what needed to happen, which is far less OK.

    In the larger view, perhaps it takes twenty years of demanding too much too soon to suddenly discover you're the man of the decade. Jobs did a fair amount of damage to common sense with his premature vision of appliancehood. But like Schindler, when the winning conditions finally arrived he acquitted himself at a level rarely achieved in life.

    I'm no fan of his bullshit years, though I admire his crowning achievement (which I'm tempted to cite as clang/LLVM, but that's just me).

  7. Departure scene by RevWaldo · · Score: 4, Funny

    Apple headquarters, main boardroom. It is full of executives in suits and ties.

    John Sculley: Right, all those in favor, say 'aye'.

    (all hands go up)

    Everyone: Aye!!

    (Steve enters, wearing jeans, sneakers, and a denim shirt. His hands are full.)

    Steve: Alrighty, folks, I got pizzas and Shastas. Now let's get this meeting started! (silence.) What?

    Front of the building.

    (Steve is bum-rushed out the front doors. Lying on the ground, a large duffel bag is tossed to him. )

    John Sculley: Just take your 400 million dollars and get out of our sight!

    (The doors close as the executives walk away inside. Steve gets up, brushes himself off, picks up the bag.)

    Steve: (yelling at the doors) Fine! I don't need you guys anyway! I'm gonna start another computer company that'll knock Apple on its ASS! It'll have PostScript-driven grayscale displays! Magnesium casings! I'll sell 'em to colleges for $10,000 each! AND THEY'LL BE GLAD TO PAY IT!

    .

  8. Re:Brilliant idea! by bledri · · Score: 5, Informative

    ...

    I thought NeXT was his greatest creation. Had they had more powerful CPUs, that thing may even have been a success.

    NeXT is the core of OS X and iOS, so it's actually been insanely successful.

    --
    Some privacy policy Slashdot.
  9. Re:Brilliant idea! by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Actually, I'm going to take the opposite tack.

    Apple was far more litigious when Steve Jobs left. It was a Jobs-less Apple that sued Microsoft over the "look-and-feel" of Windows 2.0. There were spats throughout the '90s over QuickTime and TrueType (some valid). When Jobs came back, one of the first things he did was sign a patent cross-licensing agreement with Microsoft to get rid of all the lawsuits between the companies and get on with the task of coming up with the next big thing.

    One could argue that since Steve has been gone on medical leaves, we've seen Apple litigating instead of innovating. Most of the new and notable features of iOS 5 bring it to parity with Android. Where's the "skating to where the puck will be?"

  10. look at people buying kaspersky at best buy by decora · · Score: 4, Insightful

    i dont know if its 'stupidity', but i would call it 'ignorance' and 'lack of education'.

    thats what allows best buy to scam so many and defraud so many. and it is wrong.

    the objection to the iPod is somewhere along those lines. the main thing it did was integrate with iTunes ---- well, we had this site called mp3.com way, way before itunes,, and it got shut down by legal and corporate assholes for no good reason, based on the fraudulent legal system that doesn't allow you to claim that you own the music that you rightly bought and payed for (but somehow allows record industry executives to claim the own music that they stole and robbed from the artists who created it).

    Jobs was somehow able to convince the corrupt music industry executives to let him send content over the internet. That's what the Ipod was about. Great for him... but many geeks view that as a consequence of his ability to schmooze and do smoke-filled-room negotiations... not as any kind of product innovation.