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Scientists Sequence Black Death Bacteria

First time accepted submitter Quince alPillan writes "The bacteria behind the Black Death has a very unusual history. Its ancestor is an unassuming soil bacterium and the current strains of Yersinia pestis still infects thousands of people annually, but no longer causes the suite of horrifying symptoms associated with the medieval plagues. The radical differences, in fact, had led some to suggest that we had been blaming the wrong bacteria. Now, researchers have obtained DNA from some of London's plague victims, and confirmed that Y. pestis appears to be to blame. But the sequences also suggest that the strains of bacteria we see today may be different from the ones that rampaged through Europe."

23 of 265 comments (clear)

  1. I have to do it by slartibartfastatp · · Score: 2, Funny

    Blackteria

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  2. The Black Death isn't coming back by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Informative

    the Black Death was ugly. Imagine half the population of your entire city or town dying off in 1 or 2 years. Nasty business that.

    But, that said, people really should take a more reasoned approach to disease alarmism these days. All this "This latest pandemic is going to kill us ALL!!" Chicken Little shit gets tiresome. The Littles always cite the Black Death and 1918 pandemic as if that's what we could expect from a pandemic today--all without noting the MASSIVE improvements in sanitation, medical science, vaccine research, etc. that make this scale of pandemic highly unlikely in the modern era.

    The Black Death could have been stopped in its tracks if those 14th-century peasants had even an inkling of the basic medical/sanitation knowledge that even the biggest idiots among us know today. Basic stuff like "Wash your hands regularly," "Cover your mouth when you cough," and "Don't let your goddamned flea-infested farm animals wander around through your living area, moron" are surprisingly recent bits of common sense that the developed world today takes for granted. Of course, there are still some third-world shitholes where people think that a witch-doctor rubbing feces on an open wound will ward off the evil spirits. But even those places usually have a FEW among them with some basic sense (and soap).

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    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:The Black Death isn't coming back by phrackwulf · · Score: 4, Informative

      There is a legitimate point to considering the technological ability to both communicate more rapidly about a highly infectious disease and approach a new and lethal strain with modern decontamination and medical systems. That doesn't rule out the possibility of certain very specialized and nasty toxins such as Bacillus anthracis and other hybrid biological weapons. The real danger is in a strain of bacteria that can infect a host, cause relatively mild and temporary symptoms, then reinfect and spread after a period of time leading to a lethal toxicity in the effected patient and the people they have probably come into contact with. Obviously, the really virulent diseases like Ebola Zaire are so nasty that they burn themselves out fairly rapidly because the infected population dies before they can spread the virus. As our knowledge of DNA sequencing and protein structures increases though, we start to arrive at a set of tools that could lead to truly frightening weapons and bacterial/viral hybrids. Diseases that can switch on and off based on environmental triggers. Or how about a bacteria that multiplies rapidly and uncontrollably under a certain PSI of air pressure in one's lungs?

      --
      What would Richard Feynman do, if he were here right now? He'd do some math and he'd follow through!
    2. Re:The Black Death isn't coming back by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 3, Insightful

      All this "This latest pandemic is going to kill us ALL!!" Chicken Little shit gets tiresome. The Littles always cite the Black Death and 1918 pandemic as if that's what we could expect from a pandemic today--all without noting the MASSIVE improvements in sanitation, medical science, vaccine research, etc. that make this scale of pandemic highly unlikely in the modern era.

      I don't think I read the same summary and article as you did.

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      I am not a crackpot.
    3. Re:The Black Death isn't coming back by mr1911 · · Score: 2

      All this "This latest pandemic is going to kill us ALL!!" Chicken Little shit gets tiresome.

      Yeah, but your favorite news anchor coming on saying, "a few people got sick on the other side of the world and there is absolutely nothing for you to worry about and it is nonsense we are even covering this story anyway" does not translate into a full news program for people to stay glued to and soak up all of those advertising minutes and associated dollars back to the network.

      News is about advertising and profit, not news.

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    4. Re:The Black Death isn't coming back by mcmonkey · · Score: 5, Funny

      the Black Death was ugly. Imagine half the population of your entire city or town dying off in 1 or 2 years. Nasty business that.

      But imagine the morning commute. Or finding a parking spot at the mall. Getting a last minute table at your favorite restaurant.

      Just saying.

    5. Re:The Black Death isn't coming back by robthebloke · · Score: 3, Funny

      Very true. To recover the corpses of the plauge victims, they dug up some ash, unburnt it to get back to original bodies, and were able to extract samples of the original bacterium from that. It's remarkable what technology can do these days don't you think?

    6. Re:The Black Death isn't coming back by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of course, there are still some third-world shitholes where people think that a witch-doctor rubbing feces on an open wound will ward off the evil spirits.

      I'm not sure where you got that image of how those sorts of shaman/healer types do their jobs. They'll usually go with attempts at herbal treatment that have a chance of working that is slightly better than a placebo, based on learning from previous generations who figured out that rubbing feces on wounds was a good way to cause the patient to get even sicker and die. They tend to pick their herbs for apparent effectiveness, and often have chosen things with the right chemical compound or physiological effects, just not at as high a concentration or as good a delivery system as Western medicines.

      Those healers from isolated tribes today, and our cavemen before us, were the brainy folks in their societies, and there's no reason to think they were any stupider than we are. They are just working with very limited tools, and are quite ignorant.

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    7. Re:The Black Death isn't coming back by jfruhlinger · · Score: 2

      the Black Death was ugly. Imagine half the population of your entire city or town dying off in 1 or 2 years. Nasty business that.

      While the psychological trauma must have been horriffic, in aggregate economic terms Europe actually went through an upswing in the generation after the Black Death, believe it or not. Daily life improved for peasants in particular, who suddenly found their labor in great demand (both because there were fewer of them and there was a sudden surfeit of unclaimed land).

    8. Re:The Black Death isn't coming back by Dog-Cow · · Score: 3, Funny

      I think I saw that on an episode of CSI:Miami!

    9. Re:The Black Death isn't coming back by mlts · · Score: 2

      We have had some victories over disease -- the "swine flue" for example was slated to be a pandemic on the order of SARS. However, through quick action, it had less of an effect than the generic flu does each year.

      However, we are losing the front in other ways. Take bedbugs for example. After WWII and DDT, they pretty much were removed from our existence until 2-3 years ago. Now they are back with a vengeance, and there are no real effective bedbug treatments. Of course, there is the good old flu which hits every year and nothing has stopped that. Flu shots mitigate the effect, but preventing it from spreading every year hasn't been done yet.

      If a virulent strain couples itself with a long incubation period (which means that quarantine controls take longer to get in place), there is a good chance that we could get a deadly pandemic.

      Of course, this all is assuming an infection is natural. Man-made is another story -- it doesn't take much other than guaranteed power to have the ability to have a bug farm, and there are a lot of psychopathic nation leaders out there who would love to test their research should their power be threatened.

    10. Re:The Black Death isn't coming back by aliquis · · Score: 2

      all without noting the MASSIVE improvements in sanitation, medical science, vaccine research, etc. that make this scale of pandemic highly unlikely in the modern era.

      Except you use antibiotics in your animals over in the US.

      I read that around half your meat and poultry Staphylococcus aureus which is quite awesome and well protected as is. But what's worse is that half of those was the Methicillin resistant variant.

      I'm not educated enough for in fast new vaccines can be made for viruses and if they can for all. Considering how far they have come with HIV I guess it's not always that easy.

      I read antibiotics had increased our average life span by decades. But what do you do when they don't work against the bacteria?

      So fucking retarded to over-use them, though rather convenient to use them when you need them, but it's always a risk for the future efficiency.

    11. Re:The Black Death isn't coming back by cdrguru · · Score: 2

      Ha. The Black Death seems to have mutated somewhat or humans have become more resistant in the last thousand years or so. It is clearly much less of a threat than it was in 1350.

      However, today we have far less isolation than we did in 1350. It was possible for a community to simply close itself off from the world for a period of time. It was also possible that in some parts of Europe there just weren't any infected visitors coming to call. Not so today.

      I recently read a book where there were three outbreaks of an infectious disease in three widely separated parts of the US. Given air travel today should that really happen with anything as communicative as the Black Death we would be looking at a global catastrophe. Read The Stand by Stephen King? Yes, it is a novel and a fantasy but it clearly outlines what could happen with a flu-like virus that kills and is in no way out of the question. It could happen.

      If "bird flu" turns into a deadly pandemic we are unlikely to fare as well as 1918. Between the increased travel spreading an infection widely before it is even recognized and the interdependence of communities it is very unlikely that there will be any spot on Earth that isn't touched by such a pandemic. There simply are no places where nobody goes any longer - they are going to get deliveries because they are not independent any longer. Should something get loose (and the odds are it will happen sooner or later) we better hope for better management than anyone has so far predicted either as a government study or in fiction.

      I'm laying odds on huge mismanagement myself.

    12. Re:The Black Death isn't coming back by elrous0 · · Score: 2

      But imagine the morning commute.

      Actually, many historians argue that the Black Death did actually help a lot of former serfs and peasants finally own land and actually advance themselves quite well in the aftermath.

      On second thought, everyone stop washing their hands.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    13. Re:The Black Death isn't coming back by slackbheep · · Score: 2

      Wasn't this part of the storyline to a Douglas Coupland book? I don't feel like Googling or poking through my bookshelf but I believe it was ' All Families are Psychotic '

    14. Re:The Black Death isn't coming back by oldmac31310 · · Score: 3, Funny

      What happened was labour was in short supply so the peasants got to name their price for the work they did. Previously they were considered lucky to have a roof over their heads and enough to eat.

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      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    15. Re:The Black Death isn't coming back by osu-neko · · Score: 2

      It's only a matter of time before we are all infected.

      ...

      Most people cheat but don't admit it to anyone. Therefore we go back to my previous point: math.

      If you don't understand the difference between "most" and "all", I'm afraid you're not very good at math, as the difference is kind of essential in set theory.

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      "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
    16. Re:The Black Death isn't coming back by Xest · · Score: 2

      I think you and him are talking about different people.

      You're talking about the people who did figure out new methods of healing through the years, whilst ignoring those who did manage to fuck up and kill more people than they helped.

      He's talking about the shit crazy "witch doctors" who still exist in places like Africa who claim they can produce cures, but first they need the limb of an albino African...

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/16/tanzania-humanrights

      You're both right- you're right about the people you're talking about, but you're not talking about the people he's talking about- the people who, to this day, think they can cure people through things that have quite the opposite effect, they do exist, and they have always existed- not every "witch doctor" through history has been good or sensible. Humans are quite good at believing their own bullshit, and many such healers through history will have decided "Yes, this'll cure it" and stuck with it no matter how badly it went wrong, using the age old excuses of "Oh, god must've just wanted that one to die", or "He was too far gone, there was nothing that could be done for him" and the like.

      There is any number of documented tragic cases in Africa still going on right now where people claim they can heal through things that are far more harmful to the "patient" and others around him.

      What about cases like this where he's claiming he can cure AIDs, the people beleive they're cured, and then go and spread it? -

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/6323449.stm

      Or this:

      http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/a/aids-virgins.htm

      I don't think his view of many third world "healers" is particularly mistaken. Many are just people making up false claims to elevate their status in society, to make people look up to them. Just like faith healers in fact.

  3. Re:Stopping the black death by gnick · · Score: 2

    Just as a point of interest, we STILL haven't stopped the Black Death. Sure we know how to treat it and how it spreads to help slow it, but there are still cases in New Mexico every year. And that's the US - Not where the Plague was really partying. It's a tough little bug and probably worth studying even if it isn't the huge threat it once was.

    --
    He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
  4. Not necessarily by Moraelin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Well, the actual question is: exactly how different. Yes, it's clear that some mutations are inevitable, but unless there's some clear evolutionary pressure, you may still find a bacterium that works by and large just like its ancestors.

    Now it may seem that for a parasitic bacterium, not killing its host would be an advantage. And indeed in some other bacteria we can see a sort of a survival-of-the-sickest kind of selection.

    But this is a soil bacterium. If it ends up in some host and kills it, worst that can happen is that it ends up back in the soil. It has nothing to lose by killing its host, and in fact everything to gain, since once the host is dead there's no more immune system killing the bacteria.

    This kind of bacteria that have nothing to lose by killing the host are the most deadly and dangerous. Not just this, but see for example cholera too. That's a bacterium that not only has nothing to gain by peacefully staying inside you and not killing you, but is actually trying to get out of your body ASAP. Whether you live or die in the process, meh, it makes no difference for that one.

    Additionally, for Y Pestis, the capability of clotting blood and forming colonies that plug blood vessels actually helped it spread too. The same mechanism makes it plug the stomach of fleas. The flea then will literally starve to death no matter how much blood it sucks, and driven by hunger, will go infect another host too.

    So we have a bacterium for which the plasmid that kills its host:

    1. isn't detrimental to the bacterium, since it can live just as well in a dead host or in soil, and

    2. is actually beneficial to the bacterium, since it makes fleas spread it around.

    That's one tough combo to evolve out of. There is no real survival benefit in losing those genes.

    So while, yes, you would expect that bacteria can and will mutate in time, but it's not clear at all why this one would change in exactly that aspect.

    Yet something seems to have changed. What and why? Those are the questions.

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    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  5. Re:The Black Death might be BROUGHT back by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2

    Venter didn't create life from scratch. His team rebuilt a bacterial genome out of pre-existing parts and threw them into a pre-existing chassis. To provide out an ever-faithful computer analogy, he basically installed Gentoo on some Mycoplasma genitalium. It wasn't that exciting, just more laborious.

    Which brings me to the second point: that much DNA synthesis and construct assembly is absurdly expensive. Even to transfer the dangerous parts into another bacterium via a plasmid vector would be unwieldly labourious, mostly because you'd have to figure out what the parts are, first.

    Which brings me to the third point: it is infinitely cheaper just to buy more traditional forms of weaponry than to swallow the startup cost for biological warfare. Even to poison an entire town's drinking water with lethal amounts of Brevetoxin would be cheaper. You can basically chill out now.

    P.S., Caucasians probably have serious herd immunity against the most famous strains by now and don't even know it. Even if you get the work perfect, its reliability would still be a bad gamble.

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  6. Re:The Black Death might be BROUGHT back by rubycodez · · Score: 2

    Asthma incidence has strong correlation to having parents who smoke. Allergy incidence to those who were not breastfed but consumed formula.

    Craig Venter did NOT "create life from scratch", he put a modified Mycoplasma genitalium genome into a mycoplasma. His team "stripped down" the genome to find a minimal set that would support life, then added some "nonsense" like encoded people's names and a web site address. Then they sythesized that sequence and injected it. To put it another way, just because you download a kernel from kernel.org, rip out everything that won't support your particular machine, compile and install it...doesn't make you a Linus who "built his own kernel from scratch".

  7. Actually, shit does play a role in traditional med by Derek+Pomery · · Score: 2

    While there's some truth to that, it is hardly foolproof and the feces thing is actually still true in some cases. Traditional medicine made (and makes) many errors.

    "Tetanus of the newborn occurs through contamination of the umbilical stump (and occasionally as a complication of circumcision). Neonatal tetanus is common in some cultures that have practices that encourage infection. Some tribes in the Loralai district of Pakistan practice 'bundling,' in which the lower abdomen of the newborn is smeared with cow dung and then the child is wrapped in a sheepskin blanket. The Masai have a high neontal death rate in part due to the custom of packing the umbilical stump with cow dung."

    -- The vaccine controversy: the history, use and safety of vaccinations By Kurt Link. pp71

    Goes on to mention some other practices.
    This sort of thing isn't unique in traditional medicine, either.

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