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Only Idiots Don't Give Back To Free Software

Julie188 writes "Downstream projects who take without contributing back to the upstream project defeat the benefit of open source and sooner or later, all organizations developing on top of open source code will realize this, contends Jim Zemlin, executive director of the nonprofit Linux Foundation. So the time for cajoling those users — even commercial projects like Canonical — into participating is over. Contributing is 'not the right thing to do because of some moral issue or because we say you should do it. It's because you are an idiot if you don't,'" he says." Update: 08/30 21:40 GMT by S : Reworded summary to clarify that Zemlin wasn't referring to end users.

16 of 326 comments (clear)

  1. Anyone should be free to decide by ge7 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Contributing back takes money and can be counter-productive for the community too - especially if it's introduces lots of buggy or bad code. Someone has to go through all of that. This is especially true because whatever you say, making actual contributions takes time and isn't really high in the list of companies priorities. You can say all you want about short-term thinking, but it's just a fact of life. Companies can't really do anything with it - unlike most people seem to think, many companies are working with really strict budgets too. They don't have unlimited access to cash or resources.

    If you truly believe in open source, you should let anyone to decide what they do with the code. Some will contribute back, and those will be good contributions. Then some won't, nothing is lost. The same is why I think BSD license is much better GPL - if you truly believe in freedom, you let everyone to decide themselves. After all, open source was created to free people from proprietary code and people telling them what they can't do.

    1. Re:Anyone should be free to decide by Microlith · · Score: 3, Insightful

      open source was created to free people from proprietary code and people telling them what they can't do.

      The GPL was created to ensure that the user would ALWAYS have access to the source code, regardless of how they acquired it, and would be free to modify it as they saw fit. It was specifically designed so that the code could not be made proprietary, and grants users permission to do what the laws would otherwise deny you the right to on the condition you give others the same freedom you were granted.

      It is not, at all, about telling other people what they can and cannot do.

    2. Re:Anyone should be free to decide by Hatta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Contributing back takes money

      Money they saved by going open source. It will cost less to help collectively maintain open software than it will to purchase a license for proprietary software.

      This is especially true because whatever you say, making actual contributions takes time and isn't really high in the list of companies priorities

      If they're using open source software, they must value what that software does for them. If nobody helps maintain it, it will go away. Complaining about contributing back to open source software is like complaining about the food you have to buy for the goose that lays golden eggs.

      They don't have unlimited access to cash or resources.

      Yes, the argument is that it's more economical to contribute to a healthy OSS ecosystem than it is to either leech off of an unhealthy OSS ecosystem or buy proprietary.

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    3. Re:Anyone should be free to decide by kthreadd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sure. The point is that if you're working on a proprietary project then why do you think you should have the right to take GPL-licensed code? What makes it different from completely closed code that you can't even see at all? By all means use code that is permissively licensed and be thankful for it, if GPL isn't open enough then just don't use it.

    4. Re:Anyone should be free to decide by hawkinspeter · · Score: 3, Informative

      GPL doesn't put any prohibitions on the end-user - it's only when you distribute it that you have to make the source available.

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    5. Re:Anyone should be free to decide by Chris+Burke · · Score: 3, Informative

      So basically the GPL was created specifically to tell people what they cannot do.

      Yes. It is there to tell you that you cannot withhold from others the very freedoms you were granted.

      "Free to do anything but restrict the freedom of others" is only "non-free" to sociopaths.

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    6. Re:Anyone should be free to decide by Chris+Burke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But you are restricting the freedoms of anyone that uses your GPL ridden code.

      Restricting their freedom to restrict freedom.

      Anyone capable of caring about the freedom of anyone but themselves -- i.e. not a sociopath -- can see that this minimal restriction maximizes freedom for everyone.

      You are not free to own slaves. Therefore your freedom is restricted? This makes you less free? Or is freedom maximized for everyone, because nobody -- including you -- can be made a slave?

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    7. Re:Anyone should be free to decide by turbidostato · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Simple. Less."

      Simple. Wrong.

      If you take a code under the GPL and block the licence what you get is code under default copyright laws.

      Tell me now that you can do more out of a piece of code under default copyright law than under GPL, please.

    8. Re:Anyone should be free to decide by wierd_w · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The problem with bsd licensed code is that it quickly becomes fragmented proprietary code.

      Like for instance, the bsd sockets implementation.

      Microsoft made heavy use of this code to make the earliest version of their winsock api. A modification that is closed.

      As far as I know, osx uses a bsd flavored sockets implementation as well. It is quite possibly the most widely used tcp\ip reference stack implementation anywhere.

      The issue is that osx sockets, winsock, bsd sockets, et al are all fragmented, and with the exception of the parent bsd implementation, all closed and proprietary.

      Had it been licensed under gpl, all the child implementations of the parent would be open, and advancements or improvements could cross proliferate.

      That is the real strength of the gpl. The improvements you make to the code to make it useful to you could very well be improvements that others can use to make the code work for them. Instead of fragmenting the code, it helps to unify the code, and helps it to evolve with much less "reinventing the wheel."

      The bsd license has its place, but it is no substitute for the gpl.

    9. Re:Anyone should be free to decide by matfud · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If it was GPL they would not have touched the code. So you wuld have not just have fragmented versions but entirely written from scratch versions.

      I prefer BSD or Apache style licences. But I understand the goal of GPL. It just went to far. LGPL is a good level but it is so poorly defined that any company lawyer looks at it and they start pulling their hair out and shout NO.

  2. Misleading headline and summary by bonch · · Score: 5, Informative

    The context of the statement was (intentionally) left out of the headline and summary. This isn't about end-users. Zemlin is talking about the financial incentive for contributing back to projects whose code a business or other organization is using. In other words, if your business tries to do things on its own, such as maintaining its own kernel, it's making an idiotic business decision because it's not benefiting from collective maintenance and improvement.

    Here is the relevant section in the article:

    Zemlin, who spoke with Network World editors at the recent LinuxCon event, used to preach that contributing back was important on moral grounds, as the "right thing to do." But now he says, "It doesn't matter. I don't care if anyone contributes back." Sooner or later, he believes contributing will become an obvious business decision. It's "not the right thing to do because of some moral issue or because we say you should do it. It's because you are an idiot if you don't. You're an idiot because the whole reason you're using open source is to collectively share in development and collectively maintain the software. Let me tell you, maintaining your own version of Linux ain't cheap, and it ain't easy," he says.

    He points out that Red Hat is one of the largest contributors to the kernel and also one of the most successful Linux distros. "So if some aren't giving back as much as others today, I just think it will naturally happen over time. It always is in their business interest to do so," Zemlin says.

    1. Re:Misleading headline and summary by Shikaku · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why isn't your quote the summary?

    2. Re:Misleading headline and summary by idontgno · · Score: 5, Funny

      Not inflammatory enough.

      Seriously.

      Think of the page views. Why won't ANYONE think of the PAGE VIEWS?

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  3. No, you're an idiot! by newcastlejon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Not for trying to get money for the people you represent, but for calling people idiots and expecting them to open their wallets.

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  4. Unfortunately... by MrEricSir · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...sometimes idiots *do* give back to free software.

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  5. Linux Foundation hasn't found any PR people, then. by jimicus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Network World and /. have both given this story an unnecessarily inflammatory slant. Zemlin's argument is "Maintaining your own fork of Linux for your product or service is an absurdly large amount of work for precious little return - if you let your business put much time into such things when there's no benefit to your business maintaining its own fork; it could simply pass patches upstream and let upstream take on some of the maintenance worries, you're being an idiot".

    Arguably, there is some logic to this. Lots of companies sell Linux appliances - either as virtual appliances, pre-loaded on hardware or as embedded systems - make changes to lots of things but never submit patches upstream.

    I think I'm starting to see why corporate PR-spun statements are always so bland. There's no way a corporate PR department would let something like that through precisely because of the likelihood of such slanted articles resulting from it.