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Chinese Want To Capture an Asteroid
geekmansworld writes "The Chinese want to capture an asteroid into earth's orbit and mine it. From the article: 'At first glance, nudging an asteroid closer to Earth seems like one of those "what could possible go wrong" scenarios that we generally try and avoid, and for good reason: large asteroid impacts are bad times. The Chinese, though, seem fairly optimistic that they could tweak the orbit of a near-Earth asteroid by just enough (a change in velocity of only about 1,300 feet-per-second or so) to get it to temporarily enter Earth orbit at about twice the distance as the Moon.'"
Why don't they park it in a Lagrange point?
So it can be JUST AS far away as the moon.
It's a research paper. It's 2 guys looking at the possibility for the sake of their course grade/diploma. It doesn't mean there's a plan, or a will, or even a wish. Come on editors, click through your links and understand your articles before approving crappy summaries.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
You want to get the U.S. federal government and military to invest in a technology like space mining? Tell them that China is going to be pulling an asteroid, essentially an orbital continental bomb, into Earth orbit in a controlled manner to "mine" it. I gaurantee you the DoD will start modding the OTV and any other space assets it has to wrangle some of their own asteroid "mines" into Earth orbit as well, conveniently positioned in an orbit that allows an impact point on top of China in the event of a de-orbit.
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What resource is of a high enough value to warrant the extreme costs of mining it in space and returning it to earth? The article just says "mining". Rare earth metals are about the only thing I can think of. Even something like diamonds (assuming they even exist in asteroids) wouldn't be worthwhile, because if you brought back a huge load of them then the value of diamonds as a global market will decrease because of the massive supply.
Better known as 318230.
How did
Two Chinese scientists propose to nudge a ten-meter asteroid nearing earth in 2049 into an earth orbit
transform into
"The Chinese want to capture an asteroid into earth's orbit and mine it" ?
I guess slashdot is running out of nerds who post anymore. I don't post much or read many comments here anymore, but when I saw the direction this was heading, I had to log in for the first time in ages.
The first few comments I saw were like the parent comment above - a bunch of bleating from a group of pussies who are still cowering after Sept 11, 2001, waiting for the gubermint to protect them from any and all potential harm or risk.
I grew up on sci-fi, reading about the possibilities - things humanity can do if it sets out to accomplish something grand. Bike helmets didn't exist, I ate dirt, skinned my knees climbing trees, and broke bones on (unsafe by today's standards) playground equipment. I dreamed of the stars, and of people inhabiting the entire solar system one day.
Which is worse - mining the asteroid belt or open pit mines in sensitive areas? I fully recognize that sci-fi has as much fantasy as science, but I recall novels from the 1980s that included LEO refining of asteroids, followed by dropping the materials down to earth by shaping them into gliders or capsules similar to those used in the Mercury program. There should be enough silica waste to make some heat-resistant tiles up there, and the metal can be foamed or made hollow to drop the density.
If the first few comments are representative of today's /. audience, no wonder CmdrTaco bailed.
Slashdot - the place where you can look like a genius by restating the obvious
How does doing or not doing any of those things have any effect on whether or not they can capture an asteroid?
Suso would like China to get their shit together regarding some of these more common failings before trying to snatch an asteroid out of the sky with their as-of-yet undeveloped space chopsticks.
This is Slashdot. We are technology and sci fi enthusiasts. This idea gives me a cerebral boner, it gets me excited, fills me with awe at human endeavour. And if you don't feel the same way, what the bleep are you doing posting on Slashdot?
Also, I'm not a dumb chest thumping tribal nationalist, so if the Chinese should be able to do it, credit to them, I bow before their accomplishment, and sour grapes is really not the bleeping point.
Finally, if all you can do is whine about fear and lack of trust in technical acumen and science and an unhealthy aversion to modest risk, with a brain informed more by Michael Bay movies than actual fucking science and tech, then you really are posting on the wrong fucking site, and frankly, sign off and fuck off and stop polluting these forums with your feeble mind.
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Actually, the 365-foot Saturn V put more than 150 tons in LEO. And about 45 tons of that went on to the moon.
No. More, depending on the exact orbit in question, but not "orders of magnitude more".
Let's see. a couple billion tons of metal in high earth orbit. Which obviates the need to launch six million Saturn V's to get the same amount of metal up there.
At $1000/kg into LEO, a metallic asteroid one mile in diameter ought to be worth about $10,000 TRILLION dollars.
It should also be noted that once we've developed and demonstrated a method for moving an asteroid into Earth orbit, we've also demonstrated a method for diverting an asteroid from hitting Earth.
Mining asteroids opens up the solar system. No meaningful attempts to extend our reach beyond this rock we live on is going to amount to a hill of beans till we start making use of the raw materials that are already out of Earth's gravity well.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Falling off of a playground gym won't result in a crater the size of a medium-sized city.
I'm all for crazy sci-fi things, and I lament the US's turning away from NASA. But at the same time, take things in reason. Bringing asteroids in "close" to earth might be a good goal for a couple decades out, but not now. Have a couple practice runs with Mars and Venus first.
The US didn't say "ok, we're going to the moon now" and have their first launch be to the moon, we built up to it. Hell, the first two launches weren't even orbital.
The article isn't very specific in terms of how the plan maps out though.
Remember the Tunguska event?
> "Different studies have yielded varying estimates of the object's size, with general agreement that it was a few tens of metres across."
Depending on where it hit, a 10m wide object could easily wipe out tens (perhaps hundreds) of thousands of people.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
How does doing or not doing any of those things have any effect on whether or not they can capture an asteroid?
Suso would like China to get their shit together regarding some of these more common failings before trying to snatch an asteroid out of the sky with their as-of-yet undeveloped space chopsticks.
This isn't 'The Chinese' (as in the Government) its some Chinese guys at a university in Beijing with a crazy idea they posted on Arxiv. Arxiv is not the place that the Chinese government will be posting their world domination plans.
Agreed, but in this case, you hit a particularly interesting story - the comment section will combine the new trends of technophobia caused by teenage faux cynicism and racism/nationalism, which have overrun slashdot lately. Sooner or later, the libertardians will join the fray and it'll be free for all. No idea where the nerds went. Sometimes you get a good discussion, mostly, though, I am just here to flame idiots these days.
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
The plan of bringing it in so it is barely bound and letting it wander off some years later sounds much more dangerous than bringing it into a proper orbit.
What will that asteroid do over the following centuries/millenia? We would have to monitor it forever and might need to nudge it again later. I'm also not sure if there are any truly stable orbits around the Earth, given the size of our moon driving it. Maybe there is some resonance with the moon's orbit that is safe. If so, that seems the best place to put it, and leave it there forever.
Don't Bogart the fish sticks
In contrast to the US occupying territory it never had any claim on? Half the world away from the legitimate territory? Oh, yes, sorry, that was HUMANITARIAN, as in, uhm, geopolitical oil interests, sorry. That of course is wholly legitimate and not the slightest bit expansionist.
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
You want to move Mars and Venus into Earth orbit?
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Research and development; this would be a prototype mine. In much the same way the Chinese have looked at altering the path of 99942 Apophis even though it is highly unlikely to hit us as it is, this is a practice run. Better to learn how to do things before you need to. Better to learn how to mine asteroids when we have abundance than to wait until things are so scarce that we need it. Do you not see the benefit of running a space mine for a loss financially to gain the knowledge of space mining?
If I can just reach out with my words and touch a butthole, just one, it will all be worth it.
And -- don't tell us -- get off your lawn?
Like you, I grew up on sci-fi. I'd love it if we could safely mine asteroids, but this proposal is not worth the risk. Most of the sci-fi I grew up with seemed to assume that humanity was sane enough to establish a world government before venturing to the planets and stars. You want to let a single country, acting on its own, do it? Hell, I wouldn't trust the Chinese not to "accidentally" drop the thing on top of the US, for a start. And in case you ask, no, I wouldn't trust the US not to "accidentally" drop one on Peking either.
This is several orders of magnitude more risk than skinning knees. Do not want.
Do you really think that this type of endeavor could ever take place without governmental involvement?
I think that was the point he was making.
That's a bit harsh about Slashdot--it still has a more educated and informed audience than the average bear and does a fairly decent job of bubbling up informative posts. I've been visiting the site since it started (though I lost my first UID and belatedly registered another before I realized how many cool points I was burning as UID's incremented ever higher) and the general quality has not changed that much. Though I never minded him that much, some would argue Slashdot's quality is even higher now than it was when Jon Katz was around.
That said, I do rather share your frustration with the bleating pussies that seem to populate our country in ever greater numbers. Watching my neighbors in New York shit themselves over a 16mph wind and slight mist last weekend convinced me our country is galloping toward a precipice.
Bring back the daring dreamers, I say. I want my kids to play with chemistry sets that could burn or poison them if they do it wrong. I want them coming back in the house at the end of the day dirty, with scrapes, tired, with giant grins on their faces.
If we wrap everyone and everything in bubblewrap they'll never take risks, and if they never take risks they'll never learn and never do marvelous things.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
Falling off of a playground gym won't result in a crater the size of a medium-sized city.
If it was my sister that fell it sure would.
With all the political calls saying we should go to the Moon or Mars, I've been an advocate that our next big manned mission should be to an asteroid for evaluating how to mine it. Sadly, the conservative parties in the US seem hellbent on dumbing down the American public and emptying their pockets and minds than they are at building up the country and making it productive again.
Earth is running very short on critical metals and rare earths that we need to support our current civilization and future growth. More than ever, space exploration needs to show economic return to those communities supporting the endeavor. I've not heard any evidence of the moon containing any needed mineral deposits we need. Mars, we've just barely scratched the surface (pun intended) and we don't know what is to be found on that planet. Considering how expensive it is to send things there, much less people, we need to be able to show as much of an economic return as a scientific return.
The Moon does lend itself well to a base to practice techniques needed elsewhere. Where better to work out the techniques needed to mine and smelt ore in an airless, low gravity environment than a place where help and rescue is just a few days away, instead of a few months? It also lends itself well for scientific uses, such as setting up a major astronomical observatory. Improved astronomical observation brings a longterm economic return by improving our understanding of how the physics of our universe works and how to possibly circumvent our current limitations, such as gravity or the speed of light. Also, it improves our chances of finding another world to populate before Earth becomes uninhabitable.
While there is no solid proof aside from meteorites that have made it to Earth's surface, there is evidence that there are many asteroids that may be rich in metals needed by our current civilizations. My opinion is we should be turning our attention to finding these gold mines among the stars and exploiting them. That's certainly worth more than ruining the environment we currently need to survive!
Whew! This water sure is cold!
A wall around the whole of China is 'viable'?
We've done big projects before...
I'm no a physicist, but I'm fairly certain that no matter where you place the thing in terms of the Earth's orbit, the second the Earth becomes the dominant gravitational force on the comet (as opposed to the sun) it switches from "two objects gently orbiting near each other" to "dropping a big fucking rock on the planet from 50,000 miles up".
Put another way, at some point the relative speed of the two has to reach zero, and at some point shortly after they would have to start moving toward each other. Eventually the only sensible frame of reference is that of the planet, and from that frame of reference you've got a hell of a lot of energy that's got to go somewhere very quickly.
Slashdot needs a "-1, Wrong" moderation option.
The Urban Hippie