Slashdot Mirror


Canada Encouraged US To Place It On Piracy List

An anonymous reader writes "Copyright, U.S. lobbying, and the stunning backroom Canadian response gets front page news treatment today in Canada as the Toronto Star covers new revelations on copyright by Michael Geist (who offers a longer post with links to the cables) from the U.S. cables released by WikiLeaks. The cables reveal that former Industry Minister Maxime Bernier raised the possibility of leaking the copyright bill to U.S. officials before it was to be tabled in the House of Commons, former Industry Minister Tony Clement's director of policy Zoe Addington encouraged the U.S. to pressure Canada by elevating it on a piracy watch list, Privy Council Office official Ailish Johnson disclosed the content of ministerial mandate letters, and former RCMP national coordinator for intellectual property crime Andris Zarins advised the U.S. that the government was working on a separate intellectual property enforcement bill."

35 of 199 comments (clear)

  1. Clearly wikileaks must be stopped !!! by assemblerex · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Can't have people getting used to the truth now, can we ?

    1. Re:Clearly wikileaks must be stopped !!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Can't have people getting used to the truth now, can we ?

      they already know that governments are full of lying sacks of shit. in fact all governments are liars and murderers. yes even yours. quit pretending yours is special because you were born in that country. patriotic rhymes with idiotic for a reason.

      this is what happens when you celebrate hierarchial society and tell people you're either a "leader" or you're a nobody. makes positions of authority irresistable to sociopaths who will say or do anything to get them.

      problem is what to do about it. who would you vote for to fix this?

    2. Re:Clearly wikileaks must be stopped !!! by roman_mir · · Score: 2

      Obviously, they are a terrorist group.

    3. Re:Clearly wikileaks must be stopped !!! by causality · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not just governments - it's people in general. Same goes for relationships, business and since government is made of people, that too. There's nothing you can do about it. Well, except put computer algorithms to handle it, but even then the algorithm designers would try to cheat and get some advantage towards them. People in general are full of shit.

      The kind of "full of shit" that most people experience is denial. Usually of their personal weaknesses, insecurities, shortcomings, etc. They protect and excuse these things because they are identified with them. Identification with them means that letting them go would feel like a sort of death. Mostly they mean well, they just don't objectively see themselves or understand that their motivations for doing most things are a lot less wholesome than what they imagine them to be. Believe it or not, most people who are manipulative don't realize it. They only know that people respond to them when they behave that way and it seems to get them what they want so it must be "correct".

      A lot of people would, in fact, be horrified to actually realize the daze they are in that prevents them from seeing how selfish they really are. A side-effect is that almost nothing is done for its own sake because it is good to do. There is always a secondary motive. The saying is "most people have two reasons for what they do: the good reason, and the real reason." Usually the closest the average person comes to understanding this is to realize that they have a lot of inner conflict and have grave difficulty being at peace with themselves, truly relaxing, or being content without some kind of entertainment or distraction.

      That's bad enough, and goes a long way towards explaining why they are so willing to tolerate liars and portray it as normal ("eh he's a congressman what do you expect, of course he lies"). Yet it's different from actively, knowingly and deliberately trying to deceive. There's a plan and a purpose combined with an awareness of what one is doing. It's perpetrated by people who are sworn to do what is best for the nation and entrusted with a lot of power with which to do it. There's an element of betrayal here that isn't present in the "little white lies" most people tell.

      It's part of why, perhaps surprisingly, telling a really big lie to masses of people tends to work out more successfully than telling a small one. Hitler was quite explicit about this in Mein Kampf:

      The size of the lie is a definite factor in causing it to be believed, for the vast masses of the nation are in the depths of their hearts more easily deceived than they are consciously and intentionally bad. The primitive simplicity of their minds renders them a more easy prey to a big lie than a small one, for they themselves often tell little lies but would be ashamed to tell a big one.

      Even there you can see a hint of ego perspective or selfishness. The people assume their leaders must be just like them. Therefore if they would be ashamed to tell a big lie, there leaders must be also. The inability to perceive that other people don't function anything like the way you do and would do things you would not do is part of what makes people vulnerable to this kind of deception.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    4. Re:Clearly wikileaks must be stopped !!! by osu-neko · · Score: 5, Insightful

      they already know that governments are full of lying sacks of shit.

      Yes, true, but in many circumstances, it's important to know the specifics.

      --
      "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
  2. Could someone summarize the summary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What a mess of adjectives.

    I think it says: one Canuck politician tried to get his way in a Copyright legislation deal by using America as muscle.

  3. Politics are bad mmmm'ka? by Yo+Grark · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I know politics can get evil at time but seriously, WTF?

    That's as close to treason as I can see to the tech industry.

    Media Levies? Fine, thank you for protecting us from RIAA type tatics.

    But then to turn around and sell out the entire COUNTRY to further your agenda? That's plain evil and I wish someone had the gonads to actually put people in jail over this.

    Yo Grark

    --
    Canadian Bred with American Buttering
    1. Re:Politics are bad mmmm'ka? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well we, as Canadian citizens, can demand that this politician be sanctioned. All it takes is to make a bit of noise so that the right people feel they can't ignore the issue. Write to the media, to your local representatives, spread this story to your friends, on Facebook, and be sure to tell people "We can get the guilty punished, we simply need to act. Let's do it!".

      I'm going to do just what I said above. Will you?

    2. Re:Politics are bad mmmm'ka? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They won the last election. They got a MAJORITY (even if only by a couple thousand votes). They DO. NOT. CARE.

      Look at all the scandals from income trusts to Gazebogate to Kairos and beyond. Look at how they cover up their wrongdoing to hide it from the Auditor General, and nothing happens. Look at how they instruct their political staffers to abuse their offices of government and the political staffers get fired/resigned for the election and sneakily hired back afterwards. Look at the RCMP investigation of one staffer that clearly and illegally interfered with Access To Information requests, admitted doing it, and then the investigation was dropped with no comment post-election. Look at how they first came into power, with the then RCMP commissioner abusing his office to make spurious claims against Liberal MPs mere days before the vote.

      Sure, write to the media. I'm sure that Globalist TV and Corporate Television Vehicle will really care about what you have to say! The remaining option, CBC, will be too busy supplicating themselves to get the hard-right radicals to stop calling them communist (which they won't, unless the CBC turns into Conservative Pravda for real). And the newspapers? When the vast, vast majority are owned by the same small groups of people and near universally endorsed the Conservative Party last election even with all the many scandals?

    3. Re:Politics are bad mmmm'ka? by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You shouldn't be blaming the politicians, you should be blaming the voters who admire the leadership skills of these politicians.

      Or just blame both.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    4. Re:Politics are bad mmmm'ka? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      That's as close to treason as I can see to the tech industry.

      Why "close"? This is government officials, who have a duty to (and many are even sworn to) serve their country, intentionally placing the interests of a foreign country above theirs where there is a clear conflict of interests. My common sense tells me that this is textbook treason.

  4. Well, I am not shocked... by iCEBaLM · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For those that don't know, we currently have had pretty far right leaning neo-conservative governments (still not as far right as the US tea party, but pretty bad).

    They have been caught lying to parliament and making illegal backroom deals in the past, yet because the Liberals can't seem to field a leader who isn't a blithering idiot (Dion) or perceived as weak (Ignatief) our left of centre vote gets split between Liberals, NDP and Green (which combined makes up over 50%) and the right of centre vote goes all towards the Conservatives.

    It just goes to show you, that first past the post doesn't work well...

    1. Re:Well, I am not shocked... by mbone · · Score: 2

      And what about the Constitutional Coup that Harper conducted with the Governor General ?

      In my mind, that is sufficient reason right there for Canada to become a Republic.

    2. Re:Well, I am not shocked... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ignatieff may or may not have been able to do things more effectively as leader. But that's not anywhere near the whole story. The Conservatives, thanks to the fundraising efforts they made to collect major political subsidies, are sitting on huge piles of money. They have millions to waste in advertising even before the election. And they do spend millions in advertising before the election. Even Jesus Christ would have had trouble defending himself against all the slander backed by subsidised CPC ads. They got the Goebbels Big Lie out there early, and often, and the Liberals didn't have millions in ads to respond with. The Liberals didn't try pulling the same Nixonian dirty tricks against Harper either.

      Ignatieff thought that his performance in the House of Commons (that few watch), his occasional appearance in the conservative media (hah), and his trips to meet and interact with groups of Canadians, would be enough. Sadly, it wasn't. The first two had no chance of countering defamation the ads' targets were inclined to go along with anyways and the last, by its nature, couldn't affect enough people.

    3. Re:Well, I am not shocked... by tqk · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And what about the Constitutional Coup that Harper conducted with the Governor General ?

      In my mind, that is sufficient reason right there for Canada to become a Republic.

      As if that's a cure-all solution. Cf. the USA.

      I think what you really want is a government truly bound by a constitution with which it may not fsck, and barring a very messy and violent revolution, that's a pipe dream.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    4. Re:Well, I am not shocked... by vux984 · · Score: 2

      Do you know what the TEA Party wants?

      An intolerant white christian state, with no gay marriage?

      A smaller government. A government based on the founders' principles of minimalistic, well defined roles.

      Sure that too. But that's a plank all platforms pay lip service to. Mostly its the white christian state with no gay marriage that makes them the butt of the jokes though.

    5. Re:Well, I am not shocked... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      The "founders" lived in a land of farmers and small, independent businesses, where getting from town to town took a day, and from state to state took a week.

      Judging by their policies, I think getting back to that is pretty high on the Tea Party's agenda...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    6. Re:Well, I am not shocked... by iCEBaLM · · Score: 3, Informative

      You can't form a majority government unless you win 50% +1 of the seats in the house. To do that you do NOT need 50%+1 of the vote.

    7. Re:Well, I am not shocked... by lexsird · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -Steinbeck

      "Americans, like human beings everywhere, believe many things that are obviously untrue. Their most destructive untruth is that it is very easy for any American to make money. They will not acknowledge how in fact hard money is to come by, and, therefore, those who have no money blame and blame and blame themselves. This inward blame has been a treasure for the rich and powerful, who have had to do less for their poor, publicly and privately, than any other ruling class since, say, Napoleonic times." -Vonnegut

      "It is a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by the American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters. The meanest eating or drinking establishment, owned by a man who is himself poor, is very likely to have a sign on its wall asking this cruel question: “If you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich?”"-Vonnegut

        Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.-Albert Einstein

      Get the drift yet?

      --
      Take the Red Pill.
    8. Re:Well, I am not shocked... by haruchai · · Score: 2

      The overall Democratic party hasn't been on the left quite a while - they're best described as center-right.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    9. Re:Well, I am not shocked... by mpe · · Score: 2

      Marriage was around long before the US government existed, and it was used by churches long before the US government existed,

      IIRC there have been times in the past where Christian churches have been somewhat anti-marriage. What about temples, mosques, synagogues, etc? As well as a myriad of non monotheistic faiths.

      and it always meant a union between a man and a woman.

      Except that this isn't the case. The Bible (even in the New Testament) defines marriage to include one man and an arbitraty number of women. AFAIK it does not exclude any possible grouping. There's also an entity called "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" which actually originates in the USA...

  5. None of this is any surprise by mbone · · Score: 4, Insightful

    None of this is any surprise to anyone who has been paying attention.

    To paraphrase Douglas Adams, they are not above being sleazy in the same way that the ocean is not above the sky.

  6. You know ... by Haedrian · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think this sort of information should be forced to be disclosed legally.

    How are people supposed to know who to blame for the mess of legislation if this sort of thing is done under wraps? I'm sure this guy wouldn't see another term in office if this sort of thing was known earlier.

    I realise doing it in secret was the whole point of it, but these people should be held accountable, they are meant to represent the people, and the people need to know what they're doing.

  7. the biggest leakers - governments by decora · · Score: 4, Insightful

    and they typically 'leak' information for political reasons, for power and influence, for purposes of manipulation and propaganda.

    that is why government prosecutions of 'leakers' are the ultimate hypocrisy. government itself is the biggest leaker of all.

  8. Re:Here's the good thing by PsychoSlashDot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    These cable leaks will effectively neuter the Conservatives for the next four years, since their entire policy is based on sucking American cock.

    Are you kidding me? There are three types of us; those who know what's going on and act on that knowledge (a.k.a. politicians), those who know what's going on and don't act on that knowledge (you and I), and the vast, vast majority that don't read about any of this and wouldn't understand or care if they did.

    All the politicians need to do is keep smearing each other with "they tax you too much" and "they are killing our health care/education/whatever" and "he's a pedophile". Nobody brings real issues into campaigning because the majority of constituents don't understand real issues not because they're stupid but because they don't want to.

    --
    "Oh no... he found the .sig setting."
  9. Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Piracy is legally sanctioned in Canada by the surcharge added to the price of digital media to compensate for its use in making unauthorized copies of copyrighted materials. If you're NOT pirating media in Canada, you're not getting all of what you've paid for.

  10. Same thing happened in Spain by Superken7 · · Score: 3, Informative

    The head of Spain's RIAA has been found to have encouraged Spain to be included in the "Special 301" list, as well.

    This is especially irritating, since it is that same organization who has used "Special 301" as an argument to pressure the government into modifying our laws to combat webs which offered links to warez. It is worth pointing out that those same webs have been found to be completely legal for years, since they don't actually host the copyrighted material.

    It is just amazing that a country will bow and modify its laws just because it was included in a "piracy list". Especially if what they intend to change is rather ineffective and too vague. Any web which links to material without the original author's permission can be blocked, which will probably result in 1. no less piracy and 2. abuse of this new law by others.

    I don't understand why they would block the webs that link and do not host the material, instead of blocking those that do host the material.
    Well, actually I do. It is, of course, because P2P links would be impossible to block (users would need to be blocked) without resorting to a HADOPI-style law - which they don't like because it is considered too impopular.

  11. This isn't about Canadian politics by rbrander · · Score: 4, Informative

    This would have happened whether a "Conservative, right-wing" government was in or the Liberals. To understand, you need to read a 2008 story from the same watchdog, Michael Geist (to whom all Canada should be deeply indebted for tracking these issues for years):

    http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/article/443867

    The key phrase in the story is "Canadian officials arrived ready to talk about a series of economic concerns but were quickly rebuffed by their U.S. counterparts, who indicated that progress on other issues would depend upon action on the copyright file."

    Americans are sometimes surprised to learn (Condi Rice was one, which was disappointing from a foreign-affairs scholar) that Canada is the US' largest trading partner, more bilateral trade than with your #2 (China) and your #4 (UK) combined, nearly as much as China+Japan (#3). So imagine how large a trading partner the US is for Canada - 80% of the total, last time I checked, that is, 4X as much trade as with all other partners combined.

    When the US really wants to lean on Canada at trade discussions, their only difficulty is choosing which levers to pull: making trouble over standard inspections of meat and grains? Lumber? Re-investigating whether Canada subsidizes iron ore, holding up imports while doing so?

    So you can find some profoundly anti-Canadian stances being taken by Canadian trade officials - until you see the larger picture and find they were arranging to charge all Canadians an extra $100/year for media content ($3 billion from 30 million people) to smooth the path for $6B in exports - of the $76B total, they only have to pick less than 10% to threaten.

  12. Re:Piracy schmiracy by RobinEggs · · Score: 2

    and many publishers are coming up with similar system

    But that's a bad thing. Steam itself isn't too bad, but it's still prohibits resale without lowering prices and causes a lot of other irritation.

    The appropriate reaction to multiple publishers all trying to make their own Steam-type platform is disgust and terror. More proprietary bullshit, more integrated systems to figure out when one (Steam) was enough from the consumer perspective (and that's ignoring those who hate Steam already), and more opportunities for situations like Sony's nightmarish mismanagement of game credentials and account information.

    Digital delivery platforms don't presently look like a good future; they're generally ways of inconveniencing and restricting customers, not better catering their needs.

  13. Really clumsy politics by 91degrees · · Score: 2

    Why is anyone paying any attention to this piracy list? Surely nobody's suggesting that the piracy level in Canada and Spain is anything like that in China or South Africa. Everyone realises that it's just there as a stick to try to bully these countries into capitulating to American demands.

    But it's so obvious. Any politician who's remotely against American "cultural imperialism" is going to see it for what it is and actively work against the measures urged by the US. Surely the watch list does as much harm as good. There are much more subtle ways to get his message across.

    1. Re:Really clumsy politics by msobkow · · Score: 2

      I wouldn't count on that. Downloading is rampant in Canada, because our government signed off on a surcharge for blank CDs that assumed everyone was using them to burn pirated music. As a result, downloading music is LEGAL in Canada -- we've paid for the privelege as a society.

      Needless to say, the *AA are not happy about shooting themselves in the foot by pushing for that surcharge. They were just after the money, and didn't think about it's legal implications.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  14. Re:Aren't Canadians wondering... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Actually, this is Canada carefully manipulating the USA, we just want it to look like we're the victim. The overall plan is to implement Canadian currency as the Common North American currency.
    -eyeballs Mexico-

  15. Harper could school Machiavelli and Karl Rove. by guidryp · · Score: 3, Informative

    It had everything to do with the ends justify the means right wing politics of Harper.

    Read the OP:

    “In contrast to the messages from other Canadian officials, she said that if Canada is elevated to the Special 301 Priority Watch List (PWL), it would not hamper — and might even help — the (government of Canada's) ability to enact copyright legislation,” the cable says.

    Days later, Canada was elevated on the piracy watch list.

    Harper has been copying the republican play book throughout his term in politics. Manufacture a crisis that needs the response he wants anyway.

    1. Re:Harper could school Machiavelli and Karl Rove. by Your.Master · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, it's the "political faction I disagree with as contrasted to the one I agree with" play book for the last century or more.

  16. Contact your MP by whisper_jeff · · Score: 2

    Contact your Member of Parliament. Express your thoughts. They need to know we won't tolerate this.

    http://www.parl.gc.ca/MembersOfParliament/MainMPsCompleteList.aspx