Slashdot Mirror
HTC Sues Apple Using Google Patents
AlienIntelligence writes "Apparently to stay viable in the IP wars, HTC secured some patents from Google (who purchased them originally from Palm Inc., Motorola Inc. and Openwave Systems Inc.) on the 1st of September. The patents were used to fire a new salvo of shots across Apple's bow today, September 7th. HTC filed infringement claims against Apple in federal court in Delaware, suing based on four of those patents that originally were issued to Motorola. Additional complaints were filed with the U.S. ITC based on the other patents."
It's funny how slashdotters always point out how Google doesn't sue for patent issues, but conveniently don't mention how they're having these proxy wars via other companies. Just like all the other companies.
"...HTC secured some patents from Google (who purchased them originally from Palm Inc., Motorola Inc. and Openwave Systems Inc.) on the 1st of September."
If HTC secured them from Google, how then are these patents Google patents?
A better heading could be:
"HTC acquires patents from Google then employs them to sue Apple."
How about that?
About a year ago as the patent litigation really started picking up steam, I saw no reason for them to slow down until the situation reaches a critical time in which the courts or the legislative government calls for an end to all of it. It hasn't even gotten close to that critical moment yet, but I believe it will come. Meanwhile, we will have to see some serious consequences to the US economy before that happens... and it will happen.
Meanwhile, Apple should have realized that this would be a likely consequence. It's not like they were suing Franklin or another Apple-clone/compatible maker. They have exceeded themselves in this case and are behaving frivolously and made themselves a big giant target. They will lose and lose badly.
The lawyers win, everyone else loses. Just like most patent disputes between large companies.
No point in agruing with Apple loving sycophants like Node3, for them Apple is always right. The funniest bit is his piss poor attempt at denying his blatant Apple can do no worng fanboyism in his sig.
All the Android makers need to launch hundreds of patent lawsuits each against Apple. That's the recommended punishment for a company that actually makes something acting like a patent troll.
You shouldn't be able to sell a patent. Period.
Yep and we all pay 10-15% more for our phones.
Google sounds like an arms dealer. Not getting into the war itself and getting its hands dirty. Rather it is equipping the smaller players to fight its enemy for itself.
A bunch of monkeys flinging poo at each other... The clear losers are the unpaid interns cleaning up the poo. The clear winner is... the zookeeper?
The reality is that *every tech company* that has done so, does not include google. Putting google and microsoft in the same category is a known microsoft shilling technique.
In reality, google has yet to ever, offensively go after anyone with patents. Microsoft and apple on the other hand, have even gone as far as trying to do the ITC loophole, and trying to directly restrict competition in other countries. Not the same.
In the future, the hardware will be free. The software will be free. You won't be able to use any of it though, because the patent portfolios will not be free, and they will not be cheap. We'll have to purchase separate patent license agreements from each of whatever handful of companies survives this apocalypse.
A: "Cool, what's that?"
B: "It's the iPhone 9."
A: "But... it's got color icons!"
B: "Oh, yeah... I downloaded the Samsung 'folio from the patent store."
A: "Doesn't that cost six trillion US yuan???"
B: "Nah I have a jailbroken patent manager!"
A: "Coooool. Color icons."
Funny, I've never seen Google misspelled as Apple.
You are correct.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If Google was serious about patent reform, why would they spend $12 billion to acquire Motorola Mobility to get their patents? Why wouldn't Google simply spend a couple more millions on lobbyists to stress the need for patent reform. And yes, Google has never used patents offensively yet, but the very fact that they don't spend more money attacking the root of the problem rather than treating some of the symptoms is quite worrying.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
For a lot of years all the tech companies, but particularly the phone manufacturers, have existed in a state of what they believed was mutually assured destruction. After all, the products did have to be compatible on at least a basic level for there to be a market at all. So almost all patents were either cross-licensed or available under RAND terms.
Apple has since entered the market and really kicked over the wasp's nest. They had no long term investment in past patents and gradual product development. So they came onto the scene with the iPhone 1, licensed all the basic standards and then refused to cross-license with anyone.
Because apparently they believe that the situation is not mutually assured destruction. So the war has gone from a cold one to a hot one.
It's arguable who started the actual legal battles. Nokia and Motorola were dicking around with patents that were supposed to be under RAND terms for standards reasons in order to try and force Apple to cross-license their patents. Apple has been on the warpath about their multi-touch and design IP.
It will be interesting to see if Apple can get out of this without some form of mandatory cross-licensing being imposed. If they can it should be a very interesting shake-up. It would be the first time in the phone industry that a major company would be using their patents to secure limited monopoly of developments instead of simply being a legal bargaining chip.
Instead they get their puppet companies to do so, leaving Google's hands clean (hence no Evil)...
Is Google Patents a new service from Google; similar to Google Earth or Google Toolbar?
Because Google is not a majority of Congress. Being serious about patent reform does not mean being successful at patent reform. If it was as simple as throwing money at Congress, smoking would still be allowed everywhere, Joe Camel would be selling cigarettes to kids, and cigarette packs would warn you that smoking makes you dangerously sexy.
Google has access to tens of millions of viewers. They can change their logo and the talk around the office cooler is about an obscure Polish artist's 208th birthday. Surely Google can do something like that about patent reform.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
You can't be serious... even Microsoft briefly lobbied and sought software patent reform... and were laughed out of the courts.
I have no doubt that Google would use patents offensively if its existence weren't so closely tied with the opinions of its largely tech-oriented userbase.
You took a position opposite Google's. Prepare to get reamed by scores of biased Slashdot moderators for pointing out the truth.
The "Google NEVER files patent lawsuits!" meme is officially dead. Fanboys are flipping out in the comments, trying to come up with new arguments to defend a multi-billion dollar corporation and pin the blame on others.
It's funny how you left out the entire rest of the paragraph. Here it is in full:
Hypothetical: Judge gets annoyed with infinitesimal patent differences, and strikes down a whole bunch of patents as invalid, both Apple's and Motorola/Google's.
Question: Which side walks away with a sly smile on their faces?
That's the side that isn't abusing patents.
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
As much as I believe lawyers are the ramoras of society - to be polite - in such cases I don't think the lawyers on the losing side win; I can imagine heads flying - which is a good thing 8-)
With Apple trying to ban any product that is seen as a threat, via their patents, now the opposition are teaming up; what if Apple's tactics turn against them?
;)
If the "tablet patent' Apple is using to try and ban the Samsung devices is overturned, and it should be (the prior art discussions here are evidence enough), the door will be open to the original IP holders, in this case most of the companies are represented in this "opposition".
I'm wonder when IBM will play its trump card and join the ranks? Or Microsoft even...
What if the iPad was banned for the same reasons Apple are trying to ban the Samsung devices?
Or that Apple's uncompetitive practices initiated a structural separation of the company?
Or that the monopolise they have built in the music, games and video industries via iTunes where opened to the competition?
And lets not mention the lobbying...
Apple has been playing a dangerous game for a long time, it's only a matter of time before the "competition" will have had enough.
We'll just have to wait and see where this one leads.
as long as Apple loses too I'm fine with that.
At some point these industry giants will all be brought to their knees more-or-less simultaneously at which time they'll form some sort of community and demand that the USA "fix" it. They're bound and determined to fight this to a standstill.
No one ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke!
Obvious troll is obvious troll.
Huh?
Yes Goog has the public eye. No, that does not mean the Goog gets its way with Congress.
Yes, Goog needs to play defense by acquiring a critical mass of patents. And... if a company does this... at times it may have to let it's allies being sued use them.
No, I think very little of Apple and its management but even I trust that Apple knows this.
Why do you imagine Apple cares what you think?
Android is growing in popularity, Iphone has been stagnant over the last year
Selling as many as you can make is anything but stagnant. And iOS is still ahead of Android in marketshare when you include all iOS devices - yet another vector you refuse to consider but is indicative of anything but Apple being stagnant. You can't simply cherry pick which market segment to consider.
Apple has never been able to cope with competition
Becoming larger (in market cap) than any other mobile handset maker, and bigger than Microsoft to boot, coming into the middle of a cutthroat mobile business and handing everyone their asses - all of these things in fact shows not only that Apple can compete against one or many companies, but that few other single companies are capable of really competing against Apple. It takes a consortium like Google and the mass of Android handset makers to even try.
This isn't simply Apple taking it's ball and going home, they want Samsung's bat too.
All they are asking is Samsung to stop making devices that look EXACTLY like the equivalent Apple devices. And they appear to have enough of a case that a few courts agree, which means your assertion has been tested and failed in a court of law.
At best, this is a ruse to keep stock holders from figuring out that Apple has peaked.
Oh really. Well try shorting them then. I think Apple has just gotten started and recently bought even more stock. You truly have no idea what is about to happen, do you?
The reality is there are easily multiple places in the mobile market. The other reality is that very soon Windows Mobile 7 is going to start eating up Android marketshare.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Now we'll have to see how successful it'll be, but if it does well, Apple is in trouble. Not going out of business in trouble, but in trouble in terms of losing their vast profits. Apple has been going all in with iOS since that is where their massive growth has been, but tablets are the last move they have, they don't have anything to follow it with. They've got phones and tablets and that is it for now, and who knows if there is anything else they could even find a market for.
If Android gobbles up a good share of that, they are hurting badly. So they are lashing out to try and stop it.
Ah, yes. /Law student
They're defending themselves, as they should.
If Google was serious about patent reform, why would they spend $12 billion to acquire Motorola Mobility to get their patents?
Huh, let me see, it could be because as long as the patent system is not reformed, and it is not, they have no choice but to do this?
Not sure if trolling ... or just thick.
the "puppet" is the one originally GETTING sued by Apple. Not much of a puppet, would be more of a punching bag if they didn't fight back.
“Google [... is] clearly on the losing track,” [said] Florian Mueller.
Each time we see this name in an article we can be sure that most of the article is bullshit.
See the results in the EU courts, but Apples just files new ones.
Google didn't start this fight but I hope they win. They might not be good but they are the lesser evil.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The reality is that *every tech company* that has done so, does not include google. Putting google and microsoft in the same category is a known microsoft shilling technique.
Well, Google stopped Microsoft, Apple and others from buying Novell patents by claiming that they were going to use these patents in lawsuits. And now Google has purchased Motorola and its patents and gives patents to HTC to use them in a lawsuit.
Dont ever hire an ex MS exec to be your ceo. Its a trojan horse.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
kick these evil bastards butts!
Let me add a little bit to what's going on here. Florian has spun this as a "this is bad for google". Yes, that retarded florian mueller. From http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-07/htc-sues-apple-alleging-infringement-of-four-u-s-patents.html . Of course they have to use patents in a lawsuit. How else will they defend themselves? Google isn't suing anyone with these patents, but they are handing them out to folks like HTC to defend themselves (and thus android). They aren't going after folks. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the agreement from google to lend these patents to HTC is something like exactly that.
Meanwhile, guess what? Look at the groklaw debunk carefully.
APPL is peaking on a huge bubble right now. Every financial minded person I talk to is saying not to buy APPL stock ATM as the stock value is way out of sync with the companies actual production values (forget market cap, that is simply a corporate e-peen, we're talking actual numbers here).
No, if that were the case they would not be suing because the Galaxy Tab looks nothing like the Ipad in reality, they had to doctor evidence to support that flawed assertion.
Actually, they aren't.
Sorry to break it to you dear fanboy. I was in Singapore on Saturday, you could find an Iphone 4 everywhere but a Samsung Galaxy 2 was extremerly hard to find.
But growth is definitely stagnant and when your stock is based on gaining a higher price by gaining higher market share this is very bad indeed.
Your arguments are desperate and have no basis in reality. By all means, keep buying APPL stock, you seem to have no idea what is happening around you right now, let alone an inkling of what might happen in the future.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Google has access to tens of millions of viewers. They can change their logo and the talk around the office cooler is about an obscure Polish artist's 208th birthday
I'm not sure whether your office is much more interesting, or much, much duller than mine.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
So Google sold them to HTC - now HTC has them and can start fighting others - that they fight Apple might be good, but who's next? Samsung?
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Anyone else hoping for an injunction against selling the iPhone in certain nations?
The small robot will be crushed by the big fruit!
Seriously, Android is totally second tier. Android devices are for spec lovers, not for users. Every non-geek I know who has an android phone think it sucks compared to the iPhone. They didn't get an iPhone because it doesn't have a keyboard, or a bigger screen, etc. In the end, they have a crappy OS with crappy apps and a shitty user experience that they're not happy with. They'd exchange it if they could, but they can't.
If you want the Real Thing, get an iPhone or an iPad. If you want some crappy copy of the real thing, get an Android phone.
At least WebOS and Win7 phone tried to do something original.
"All they are asking is Samsung to stop making devices that look EXACTLY like the equivalent Apple devices"
Which ones would those be? I've got a Galaxy S2, which when I compare it to my GF's iPhone doesn't come anywhere NEAR an exact replica. Yes, it's a f*cking smartphone, so it's black with a full-sized touch-LCD. It's got a power button, mic jack, volume button, and a camera (also a front-facing camera, which my laptop had long before and iPhone did).
It's got a square'ish physical "home" button on the bottom, PLUS a touch-sensitive "back" and "menu" button.
In terms of interface, the stock lock screen had a background picture which you swipe to move off (not like iphone, which had a better lock IMHO). There's a menu bar at the bottom for common function buttons (this initially replaces the "physical" buttons present on my previous phones), and general icons above that. It has multiple desktop screens, which is just as much a clone of my Linux desktop as the iPhone.
Oh, and it has a removable battery, standard micro-USB charge port , and an SD card slot. Again, different from the iPhone and a significant part of the reason why I'm happier with the S2 than I was with my previous iPhone.
The first quote is out of context, and the second quote is Jobs quoting Picasso.
He's saying what we all know, creativity does not occur in a vacuum. But note specifically that he does not talk about stealing the ideas of other computer manufacturers. He's talking about taking ideas from music, poetry and art to make a better computer.
Here's the problem with this argument: Google has never gone on the offensive with its patents because it *hasn't owned patents that it could go on the offensive with.*
Who were they going to sue with their search-related patents?
What's happening is, Google is trying to extend into other markets with Android. And they are not *innovators* in this space: they bought Android. They are not designing the hardware (which often tends to look like iPhone knockoffs). They are simply taking their software, dumping it into the market for free, and using that software to make sure that their services (and thus, advertising) are available on a broad array of mobile devices. In so doing, they are treading on the software patents other companies own, and catching a lot of heat for doing so.
Would it be great if all these companies sang Kumbaya and got along? Sure. But this insistence that somehow Google is the poor put-upon underdog because they have a hip logo on their web site is just stupid. Google is trying to expand into a new market where there are many established players already. They are appropriating ideas liberally from their competitors - and in at least some cases, appear to be doing so willfully - and now are catching heat for that. There is no "good guy" in this fight, and Google is not the scrappy underdog you're trying to hero-worship them into.
Most of Google's partners are established players in the mobile marketplace. Apple was a late comer to the market. The iPhone is a great product, but it was not the first smartphone; Apple simply integrated and packaged existing technology better than most of the competitors. What Apple is trying to do, is to eek out some small space of "innovation" in all of the borrowed or cross licensed technology in the iPhone and use it to suppress competition. So far, what they have come up with as innovative, game changing iPhone technology are things like rounded corners, rectangles, specific gestures and possibly multi-touch.
If you aren't part of the solution, then there is good money to be made prolonging the problem
Shhhh, words like this could potentially destroy the reality distortion field.
-@|
It's like they're playing frickin' Monopoly (TM)!!! "I've got all the orange properties, YES!!! I am building hotels on each of them, then I'll charge anyone who lands on them a bunch of money!" - "But you just traded for it, you had to pay when you landed on that same space JUST LAST TURN!" - "Yes, but they're MINE now! PAY UP, BITCHES!"