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Wealthy Americans Turning To Europe For Medical Treatment
theodp writes "Fox Sports' Jay Glazer reports that prior to undergoing recent neck surgery, Indianapolis Colts quarterback Peyton Manning flew to Europe for stem-cell therapy that's used overseas but not yet in the United States. Earlier this year, Fortune reported that prior to his liver transplant, Apple CEO Steve Jobs took an unpublicized flight to Switzerland to undergo an unusual radiological treatment which was not available in the U.S. Some Americans are willing to go abroad to seek what they can't find at home in hopes of improving — or saving — their lives, and health providers are eager to respond. 'It moves fast, this industry,' said the director of Medical Tours International in 2007. 'They think, 'Look at all these sick, rich patients.''"
maybe because most other countries in the modern world don't have a large rabidly religious and anti-science segment of their populations.
This can't be true. We have the best health care system on earth! I heard it on Fox News, so it must be true.
Could this have anything to do with dodging anti-science policies of the American far right?
I know it's fun to jump on the scientifically inept politicians but I might also cite general concern for what a stem cell treatment entails. Several medical professionals have explained to me that just randomly injecting stem cells into your body has unknown effects depending on the stem cells and the localization of the injection. This causes a variance of anything from magically cured to cancer-like growths. Stem cells aren't very well understood yet ... and some of that is to blame on halting embryonic stem cell research but even the Republicans are okay with non-embryonic stem cells. As we develop more ways to get stem cells, their hobbling of the US medical field becomes moot (assuming adult stem cells are just as awesome as embryonic stem cells -- something I don't know).
... are you cured yet? Oh, you died? Well, send in the next medical tourist!" Why doesn't the article explain what "procedure" or "treatment" Tonya Winchester was administered in Russia?
So, yeah, you know the FDA and other regulators are pretty slow moving to approve all this in the United States until that becomes more science than "Let's see, you take the syringe here and inject this shit there and
My work here is dung.
Let's see.
Middle income Americans go to Canada for their pharmaceuticals.
Thousands of US patients of all types go to Mexico and points south for all sorts of surgeries that aren't (yet, or ever) available in the US.
This story points to wealthy Americans going elsewhere for not-yet-approved 'edgy' radiological treatments, or stem cell therapies not practiced here.
Some on the left are going to see only that last one, and once again blame Bush for crippling US stem cell research. The fact is that is only seeing a single symptom of a more chronic condition: when you have a system crippled by politics and paralyzed by excessive litigation. when ideas, procedures, and research is circumscribed not by practicality or technology, but by policy set by science-illiterate representatives voted into their positions by a science-ignorant public for decades...well, what did we expect?
Clearly, some Americans are choosing with their WALLETS that value is more important than litiginous recourse - if you're buying a cut-rate surgery in Mexico, you're not really scrutinizing their malpractice coverage. If you're buying your heart medication from some website *.ca, FDA approval is clearly not your primary concern.
Don't get me wrong; anyone conversant with US history will recognize the consistency here. The US has always has a population that is non-intellectual, I believe even de Tocqueville commented on that in 1830. But like so many things in American popular culture, it seems the currents have somehow lately surged to tidal waves that threaten to swamp the whole boat.
Then again, that could just be me shouting "get off my lawn" like so many generations before ...
-Styopa
Although European countries have very different systems, they rather each have a health system whereas the US have a health industry. It shouldn't be surprising that one has better medical results and the other one better financial results...
So what's the point of this?
Some treatments are simply more available in certain countries.
No, I'm not defending America's approach to healthcare, but I've seen the same bloody argument used from the other side for all the America-bound medical tourism from rich Canadians and Euros, and in the end it means absolutely nothing. Rich people travel a lot. Rich people min/max their medicine.
The problem is for people who don't have insurances and can't pay for traveling outside their nation.
Fortunately, Mexico is quite close and can be visited cheaply, especially if you live in Texas or another close state.
I've got some friends who went down their for major dental work (nothing controversial or unavailable here) and paid a small fraction of what they were quoted in the US.
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Mohandas Gandhi
Jesus Himself does in many ways seem like a positive example; people following the obnoxious behavior of the Old Testament God seems to be the issue IMHO. Christians not partaking of such behavior is good, but in some ways they seem to be glossing over that issue in the Book.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
that are safely available in other countries.
To be fair, stem cell treatments aren't quite known to be safe (or effective) yet.
There is a lot of promise there, but as I understand it, many of them don't seem particularly effective yet and the safety is uncertain.
The FDA is very conservative -- that much is clear. Perhaps *too* conservative, especially in the case of patients who are dying -- but there's a good reason for them to be conservative.
This isn't going to be pretty when the "We're Number One!" and "USA! USA! USA!" crowd gets here.
No, it doesn't.
It comes from the US law that medical devices and drugs cannot be marketed without FDA clearance. 21 CFR 820 and so on. That takes a lot of time and money.
It also comes from the US hospitals being very conservative when it comes to offering new procedures. Technically doctors can do just about anything. Even use devices and drugs "off label", by passing FDA requirements. But in reality, doctors must get approval from hospital IRB's before doing something experimental. IRB's are conservative, political, and slow. Most docs prefer to just stick with routine stuff.
But if you are rich, you can bypass those safety check and go to another country for experimental procedures using uncleared drugs and devices.
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
Medical treatment varies greatly from disease to disease, from country to country.
If you're looking for a general overview of the quality of care in a country, look at the survival rates of the widespread ones within a group.
For example, if judging cancer survival, you might look at prostate, breast, colon, and rectal.
"The highest survival rates were found in the U.S. for breast and prostate cancer, in Japan for colon and rectal cancers in men, and in France for colon and rectal cancers in women, Coleman's team reports."
Could this have anything to do with dodging anti-science policies of the American far right?
No. It has to do with the FDA making absolutely positively sure that a treatment is safe, or at least that we know all the possible risks associated with each treatment. This takes years to complete for each and every treatment, which means that during those years, any treatment under investigation or medical trials will be unavailable in the US.
Of course, don't let the facts stop you from making your anti-Christian remarks. You should blame those dastardly Christians for everything you see wrong in the world. On Slashdot, it will even get you modded "Insightful", even though your comment is based on no facts whatsoever. Kinda like what you accuse Christians of doing.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
Be sure to tell anyone who talks like a pirate today that they are a faggot.
You fool - I just tried it and now I've been keelhauled.
Doesn't every politician especially from the GOP say that the American Healthcare system and its actual care are the "best" in the world?
By the way, this is despite the fact that various metrics indicate the USA is no where near the top!
Is one of the major reasons I'm never going back. The last time I went (which will be the last time, period) my son caught a cold and was turned away from three hospitals because we didn't have the right type of insurance. I guess I shouldn't say turned away, I should say they all told me that because I didn't have the right type of insurance and I didn't have the an appointment I would have to go to the ER, which would easily cost thousands of dollars. Here in Japan my son would have been seen immediately, for free, wherever we went. Our medical system isn't socialized either, so don't even try that argument.
Shortly after that my wife had some allergy related breathing issues and we went to a hospital that did accept the insurance we had to get medicine. They diagnosed her with a degenerative lung disorder and ordered up all sorts of tests. Even with the insurance everything cost over $2,000 and guess what - it wasn't a degenerative lung disorder but rather a simple allergy attack like we thought in the beginning. On top of that we found every hospital we went to seemed dirty, was staffed with doctors and nurses who didn't seem to give a shit, and were constantly asked the same questions over and over as if the staff didn't bother to even look at the papers the previous person had filled out. I'm not just talking about one hospital either, all of them we went to were like this.
So yeah, rich Americans go overseas for medical care? Wow, big surprise there.
when you asserted that "the market" will determine efficacy more quickly and cheaply than a clinical trial...
- what do you think happened before FDA?
Look at the way doctors have cooperated in the past to pass the information they gathered about treatment of different conditions and different cases. Private market provides huge exposure to any type of treatment, and if it is safe of-course, it will quickly be understood whether there is enough evidence that the treatment works. People exchange information without government, did you know that?
Look at the way Mayo clinic was established - people were exchanging information and that made that clinic very competitive, people used to come to USA from all over the world to visit Mayo clinic because of CREDENTIALS, that were EARNED, not dictated by any government.
It was competition that drove people to that clinic, which quickly disseminated similar approaches to treatment and information sharing among professionals everywhere in the world.
It's like an iPhone - once one exists, everybody is going to emulate it based on success, which is measured in sales and profits.
Profits are the feedback mechanism, which is the way the market tells the entrepreneur that he is on the right track. This is the same with iPads and health care.
You can't handle the truth.
You know, having lived here for awhile, I can strongly recommend some excellent hospitals in Thailand. They are accredited by some American hospital organizations and I've personally used them for the some semi-serious conditions (knee-surgery) as well as very frequent monitoring of some chronic ailments (I'm a hypochondriac!).
It's actually somewhat amazing as to the quality you get for the price. I stayed in a state-of-the-art brand new private hospital suite (with comfortable sitting area for guests, kitchenette, private bath, big screen television, remote controlled curtains, etc.) for less than the cost of one of the five star hotels. The surgery (from what I can tell state-of-the-art laproscopy) was not that cheap (still less than $5K for everything) included everything including recovery and physical therapy. Also, the cute Thai nurses were very pleasant to be around!
Can't say all S.E. Asian countries are like this (there are some I'd stay far away from) but it's a great value for the money (they've got a great executive checkup that includes just about everything; blood tests, stress tests, chest X-rays, ECG, ultrasound, eye and ear tests, meeting with dietitian, etc.) for $250!. I wish that Medicare would pay for some of this stuff, it would save American taxpayers a ton of money (saving much more than transportation costs) while bringing down prices at home.
By the way, the geeks amongst us might enjoy the fact that EVERYTHING is digital at these hospitals and for a small fee (about $8) every report, image, x-ray, ultrasound, endoscopy, MRI, ECG, EKG, video from every visit you've ever had is put onto a CD-ROM for you. I've got quite a collection on my iPad!
"But if you are rich, you can bypass ..."
If you are poor, you can get a flight plus a multiple bypass in Europe for the sum of a couple of months insurance in the US.
For a couple of hundred bucks you can get a cheap flight plus an abortion in Amsterdam or London.
It also comes from the US hospitals being very conservative when it comes to offering new procedures.
But, but, duriing the health care "debate" we were told that all inovation came from the wonderful free market American system and the socilist eurofags would be screwed if they couldn't steal American ideas.
I'm so confused.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
The historical record is unclear on this point *at best*.
Actually, the historical record of the time is pretty thin on Christ existing at all.
Why, exactly?
Thalidomide and similar cock ups.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
They free load on our pharmaceutical industry mostly, but there are a few that operate over seas, most of them are based in the US.
Hahahhaha!
Of the 10 largest pharmaceutical companies by sales six are based in Europe.
Watch this Heartland Institute video