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Airline Offering Plane Crash Survival Course to Frequent Flyers
British Airways is giving their best customers a competitive edge in the event of disaster by offering a course on surviving a plane crash. Beginning next year, members of the airline's Executive Club can cash in air miles to take the four-hour safety class. From the article: "Andy Clubb, the BA manager running the course, told the Independent: 'It makes passengers safer when travelling by giving additional skills and information, it dispels all those Internet theories about the brace position, and it just gives people so much more confidence in flying.'"
how long before plane crash is the next airline fee?
No, it's not April 1st... no, the news story isn't from the Onion... oh, "cash in air miles", makes sense now.
"None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
I'm sorry, but after reading the article, it appears that they will be charging money for information that should be, and probably already is, available to the general public.
I call shenanigans!
Just for this: "concludes with a simulated emergency evacuation down the escape slides. "
I was expecting involvement from James Gosling somehow...
Salt, the Epicure's Delight...
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
how long before plane crash is the next airline fee?
Oh, come on. That was too easy.
Put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye.
(It's the same course, but you don't get to slide down the chute.)
Wow, British Airways is charging money for an advertising campaign? Cash in some of your miles and we'll help you feel better about all the flying you already do.
Along these same lines, several additional survival courses are available:
Sign up now, spaces are limited!
FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
If this is so important, why aren't all the airlines doing this for free?
Circle the wagons and fire inward. Entropy increases without bounds.
An airline with some common sense would NOT charge customers for the right to be reminded of PLANE CRASHES...
That makes it different from any other class how? There isn't a reputable school in the world (at least not a technical/practical one) that depends on some kind of "secret knowledge" in their classes. Everything is available one way or another to anyone who wants to find it.
The purpose of classes is to organize that material and teach it to you in an efficient way via a guide who can answer common questions in an immediate and interactive way. Some people do find it easier to go out and dig up the information and teach themselves, but a lot of people benefit from a classroom type scenario where they receive instruction from someone knowledgeable in the area.
Honestly i'd be much more wary of them if they promised that they had secrets to surviving a plane crash that weren't available to anyone else.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Don't be in a plane crash.
Try real hard to make yourself incombustible when you are doused in jet fuel and everything around you ignites. Most crash survivors are killed by burns and smoke inhalation. But nice try, BA.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
/.-generated comment at the bottom of this page: "Hempstone's Question: If you have to travel on the Titanic, why not go first class?"
Circle the wagons and fire inward. Entropy increases without bounds.
Don't eat the fish.
how long before plane crash is the next airline fee?
The slide will be. Cheapskates have to stay in the plane.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I'd feel more safe if they provided parachutes. It's hard to survive a plane crash when you're traveling towards the ground at thousands of feet per second without a parachute. I think all the stuff they talk about like "using your seat as a floatation device" are all complete nonsense when 90+% of plane flights don't travel over bodies of water. Give me a parachute and a way to jump out of the plane, and at least I know that I'm going to *possibly* survive.
The safest seats according to research are towards the back of the plane. Given that airlines will give the best seats of the plane / the ones in the front, to their most valued customers who are taking these classes; being able to afford this class dooms you to a lower odd of survival if you take the most coveted privilege of the frequent flyer...
The fish eat you
P.S. Yes I got the reference.
"None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
...a signed Bruce Campbell arm mounted chainsaw for mowing down passengers blocking your way to the emergency exit. Yay! You win!
Does the handbook contain recipes on how to cook your fellow survivors if you crash in the Andes and need something to eat.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Research into emergency evacuations by the Civil Aviation Authority in 2006 found that a significant number of passengers struggle with the most basic of tasks such as releasing the seat belt.
In terms of our genetic future, does this class of passenger need to be saved?
Here's a helpful hint. If you crash on a mysterious island in the Pacific, watch out for polar bears.
gives people so much more confidence in flying
When somebody tells you how to survive a crash, what do you think about? Crashing. The people who would want to take that course because they think it could be useful are not frequent flyers. Frequent flyers are much more likely to choose their seat for convenience than for safety. Flying is already supposed to be safe, remember?
First, you aren't spiraling towards the ground at thousands of feet per second. Check your math.
You wouldn't make it out the door of the plane. At a high-altitude, when you'd still have a few minutes to escape, you can't open the door due to the pressure difference. (For obvious reasons, it's completely impossible to open the door at altitude.) Once you get low enough to open the door, the air will be dense enough that the plane will almost certainly be a bit unstable and you'd have a tough time making it to the exit. On the off-chance you went through it (fighting your way through the scrum of all these people wearing ungainly heavy parachutes), the wind forces would probably snap your body in two against the door frame. If you make it out the door, you'll need to avoid the tail.
I'd be shocked, that out of an entire plane, a half-dozen made it to the ground alive.
But none of that matters... why? Because most accidents take place near takeoff, landing, and taxi, which is when parachutes would be utterly useless due to the fact you are going to hit the ground well before anybody but the pilots have time to do anything about it.
If you are going to spend a truly hideous amount of weight on safety measures (parachutes are HEAVY), there are lot better places to put it.
I got mod points but cant resist.
The airlines could start charging you for the little drop down oxygen masks. You know in the event you need it you got to pay. You could charge 5 bucks at the counter and a million dollars on the way down.
I wonder if in the classes they point out that since they are more valued customers their chances of survival go down. Those customers usually get free upgrades to business/first class seats which have the least chance of survival. The cheapest seats, in the tail end, have the highest rate of survival.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/aviation/safety/4219452
How to survive a plane crash:
Step 1: Fly a major, well-established airline.
Step 2: Leave a family wealthy enough to successfully sue the airline in the event of your death.
All you need to is listen to Al:
Put your tray table up
And keep your seat back in the full upright position
Don't get on a plane!
You forgot to include being drunk and/or asleep. It has been shown in car crashes that a person who is drunk usually is injured less in a crash and usually survives (I am not advocating drunk driving, all drunk drivers should be put in jail for at least a year). It has to do with being completely relaxed. I'm thinking that you would see the same affect if you were asleep. Then again, if you were asleep and survived the crash, you are more likely to escape the plane before any number of bad things happen, such as sinking or burning, than if you were drunk.
Since frequent flyers generate lots of revenue for an airline, those are the people they want to save first. To guarantee future revenue flow. Frequent flyers are worth more to the airline, it's as simple as that.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
I guess the "internet theories on the brace position" boil down to a theory that it kills you faster?
Anybody know any references to evidence that the brace position is the safest to be in? Or references to others reasonable claims for better positions?
(don't bother with responses about parachutes, taking the pilot's seat, going to the first class bar and drinking yourself horizontal, etc...)
cheers!
I guess the airlines offering crash survival courses is only fair since they've been lobbying so hard to have the solo air traffic controllers work longer hours with fewer breaks. Once they completely break the air traffic controllers union and the union for the Federal Aviation Administration workers, they better also start offering frequent flyers yoga classes so they'll be able to kiss their asses goodbye.
You are welcome on my lawn.
This is British Airways we're talking about, not Southwest or Ryanair. BA does not charge hidden fees for everything. In-flight food and drink, a reasonable number of checked bags, etc. are all provided at no extra cost.
(The downside is that BA tickets are more expensive up-front. You pays your money and you takes your choice: put up with sleazy nickel-and-diming scumbags, or pay a premium to receive premium service?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brace_position
Loaded with 3rd party links as well.
Seriously, has no one heard of Google or Wikipedia around here? This has already been done for you. You simply have to bother to look it up...
unless that involves putting on a parachute and jumping out before the crash
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
Planes are much older,
safety is compromised,
airlines finding ways to reduce miles liability,
cant afford to maintain service.
This is such wrong message!
Frequent flyers are also the most likely to be involved in a plane crash, so it makes sense from the customers perspective as well.
*cue rimshot*
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Instructor at a physiological flight training course (i.e. "chamber ride") suggests carry one of those large bags for roasting turkeys in the oven, keep it folded inside your jacket pocket. After a rough landing (no, not one that plows in at hundreds mph), pull it over your head and tighten string. Bag should have enough breathing air but it will shield against toxic smoke and much of the heat. In the event of a cabin fire it will mostly be smoke that collapses other passengers, this bag over your head will give you considerable protection for you to quickly egress.
I agree with other comments that parachutes are not useful. Many crashes happen at takeoff and landing (too low for opening). If you bail at high altitude (and will pass out few seconds later at 30K), most likely land in rough terrain (can you survive it?) or in open ocean (will only live for 10 minutes in north atlantic). Probably need ejection seat (not practical for 200+ seats) though you may get an air or leg torn off at punch out. If aircraft goes into a wild spin or dive, you will feel a second or two of weightless then will be slammed and held against fuselage wall unable to move due to g-forces (many airmen could not escape from a falling B-17).
Step One: Make it so the airplane doesn't crash! (there aint no step 2)
mfwright@batnet.com
in Canada we have the choice to pay a premium for the sleazy nickel-and-diming and not paying a premium and getting the twice the nickel-and-diming.
Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
Still, that's the sort of link that would have been courteous and informative to have been included with the initial summary.
But how does that increase my post count or gain me any karma?
Southwest is probably one of the most reasonable, they provide basic service and you can't pay them for much more.
Ryanair is great. If you read the rules and abide by them you get a great cheap flight. Cost for rule breaking starts at 40 Euros (eg failure to print your boarding passing).
There's nothing hidden, just be clear that anything they didn't say they will provide, they WILL charge you for. Luggage tags are 2 Euros.
It's easy, just learn these steps and you are safe!
Plane flying somewhere above the Atlantic. Experiencing turbulences, and suddenly one of the enginess goes off. Stewardess gets the mic and says: Ladies and gentelmen, we are experiencing some minor problems, but please stay calm. OK, now please take your passports, everybody has them? Thats fine, now roll it... WHAT??? Asked some dude. Just roll it, replied the lady. And now stick it deep into your anus... Whatta hell! Yelled another guy, Hows that suppose to help us! Stewardess with angelic calm on her face says: it will help to identify the bodies after we crash. Thank you for your attention.
At the platinum level, a special culinary course is offered on the best way to cook and eat coach survivors, should you be stranded on a desert island.
Mythbusters found the brace position to be safer than sitting upright.
...if you choose to purchase exit-slide priveleges, exact change is greatly appreciated, thank you...
The airlines could start charging you for the little drop down oxygen masks. You know in the event you need it you got to pay. You could charge 5 bucks at the counter and a million dollars on the way down.
Nobody carries that much cash on with them and planes don't crash all that often. A better business model would be to offer "oxygen assurance insurance" for $.05 to everyone on every flight. Want to make sure that in the case of sudden depressurization we remember to flip on the O to your seat? Pony up...
No particular references, but I have an anecdote from my father, who was a radiologist. He once took part in a plane crash investigation in France. One thing he remarked on is how many of the passengers basically had broken necks, basically from whiplash. Basically, you want to avoid your head and body whipping forward and either snapping in mid-air or whacking into whatever is in front of you. Once upon a time, there was enough spacing between the seats that you could essentially cradle yourself in your lap. These days, unless you're in an exit aisle, you have to brace against the seat in front of you. There is some debate about whether you should have your arms in front of you or behind your head, etc., but the consensus is that you should brace somehow.
Of course, the safest position to be in is in a rear-facing seat and especially one towards the back of the plane. Planes would be much safer in a crash if all the seats were rear-facing. Same is true for passenger seats in cars, for that matter. Airlines don't do it, however, apparently since they believe that customers won't like rear-facing seats. Considering how many other things that customers don't like that airlines are willing to do, that seems bizarre to me.
Do the select few get to crash a real plane so they can practice all their moves????
As a Canadian I fully agree... though I must say, I'm not sure which airline is which in your comparison...
Did you remark that I did not even specified airlines ;)
It could be almost anything that has an high barrier to entry... like ISPs, cell phone providers and airlines.
Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
They'd best be teaching you how to cook your fellow passengers. You're in a metal cylinder packed with explosive fuel crashing into the ground at hundreds of miles an hour. Anything will save your life about as much as "Duck and Cover" would save you from a nuclear blast. Assuming you're lucky enough to survive, you may end up having to consume your fellow passengers to survive longer. But, to stay positive, they'll probably taste better than what the airline was planning on feeding you (Assuming it was planning on feeding you anything!)
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I was under the impression that the reason for not using rear facing seats was that they took up more space for a given degree of comfort due to the slope of the planes fuselage.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Actually, they charge £4.50 to pay by credit card or paypal in the UK. And taxes aren't always included in the headline price, depending on the law of the country where your ticket is sold.
If you see black smoke, run!
Don't trust anyone not on the passenger list.
Remember 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 & 42.
in Canada we have the choice to pay a premium for the sleazy nickel-and-diming and not paying a premium and getting the twice the nickel-and-diming.
We seem to be lucky in the US. The lower-cost airlines are the ones that seem to have better customer service and less nickel-and-diming. Southwest lacks many of the amenities of more expensive airlines, but tickets are cheap as hell, free checked bags, no change fees, a little more room in each seat (which my 6'4" stature appreciates), friendly service, no bullshit. JetBlue and Virgin are lower on the cost scale, but they are more of an a la carte setup. Most amenities cost extra, but not in a nickel/dimey kind of way and customer service is also great. It's the expensive airlines (United, Delta, Continental, etc) that I absolutely hate flying on because they cost more upfront, charge you for all kinds of bullshit, AND have crappy service and tiny seats.
The actual deck of most jetliners I've been in is so close to level that I can't imagine how that could be the case. I can certainly see how it would be a comfort issue when accelerating, however, for the exact same reasons why the aft-facing seats would be safer in a crash. At the very least something more than a lap belt would be needed.
I'd like to see this training video on KhanAcademy.org. Non-frequent flyers might also like to learn how to survive. If they survived, maybe they would even go on to become frequent flyers. Profit!
Darn - I do wish BBC America was everywhere since clippings don't quite carry the value of the course. The BBC coverage of this story would help readers understand the course offering better:
British Airways is offering the standard cabin crew safety course to passengers for a fee. Passengers get to actually activate oxygen masks, inflate life jackets, open escape doors, and jump down emergency slides - without shoes of course. There is even a smoke-in-cabin exit drill.
We could chalk this course offering up to smart marketing - or we could demand that US airlines begin doing the same thing for high-school age and above - especially for the smaller commuter aircraft - to help increase aircraft survival awareness and provide continuing education credits to frequent flyers.
I suspect an advanced course is available for air marshals and British SAS members fine tuning close combat techniques for passenger aircraft.
Getting the details right can mean the difference between getting out alive - and not.
I would expect the public to insist on a passenger safety course before flying on Virgin Galactic - but I doubt they have a free-fall from 100,000 feet simulator. Yet.
DarkStarZumaBeachSurfinApocalypseWow
...I've thought for a long time that it was stupid and wasteful that airlines don't harness the assistance of their experienced flyers in emergency situations. The more people who know what to do the better for all concerned. And experienced flyers are less likely to make mistakes about what is and is not an emergency. I'd take this course like a shot if the airline I fly with most often offered it.
wg
Surely that means that hidden fees are charged for everything you list : your free in-flight "food" is covered by part of your "ticket" price ; your checked baggage (both the handling and the weight) is covered by part of your "ticket" price ; your "etc" is covered by part of your "ticket" price. But the actual costs of all those items is hidden in the "more expensive up-front ticket".
Me, I can't wait to see what has long been enforced in most of my flying : "Please step onto the scales sir, carrying all your baggage." That's non-commercial flying, but it will eventually get into commercial flying too, because the number-one determinant of airline's costs is the fuel to overcome the weight in the air.
No, this does not violate people's human rights. It enhances them, because it helps you to appreciate the value of every single kilogramme that makes up you. Or, you're free to move along to the next ticket desk.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Obviously I have no idea what will be taught in this course, but the idea sounds good to me. They probably won't do it right, but will instead just show some videos and use it as a PR opportunity - but it could be awesome, and save a lot of lives. I still remember... over 25 years ago as a boy scout, I took the opportunity for a "Sea Survival" course offered by a local (to FL) expert on flight safety and crash survivability, particularly in water. (which makes sense given the FL geography) The things I learned were not earth-shattering, but definitely useful.
For instance...
You probably don't want the first time you get into a life boat/raft to be during a real emergency. Maybe designs have changed since and planes have been retrofitted (ha-ha!) but it's actually pretty difficult even in warm calm water, let alone cold stormy seas.
Life jackets supplied to passengers suck. If you're unconscious in high seas, you'll probably still drown because water is channeled between the "pontoons" strapped to your chest. A better design (one piece) is available, but not used on most aircraft. The instructor carries his own. (he even carried the CO2 cartridges with him, despite it being against the rules - long before the TSA obviously)
Most people (esp. living in FL) don't understand how serious hypothermia is, and how important it is to get out of cold water ASAP. If you delay even for a few minutes, you may not live.
Markers produce a WHOLE lot of smoke. Wasn't allowed to "test" the flares though. Oh well. :)
Best example story that applies to why it's worthwhile for anyone to have some instruction... A group of servicemen were rescued after surviving a crash at sea. They were in the lifeboat, and everyone was fine. But the search plane had a tough time finding them, even though it had been in the vicinity for some time and the men in the boat had seen it. They didn't have flares, smoke, signal mirror, etc. - and also didn't have the first aid kit, emergency rations, etc. because they didn't find the rope attaching the supplies to the boat. Maybe stress blinded them, or maybe they were asleep that day of training, but a little more knowledge would definitely have helped them out.
Every time I fly I still think of the things I learned, and am glad to have even an infinitesimally larger chance of survival.
The A380 can evacuate 873 people in 77 seconds, yes. When the plane is on the ground, not moving, all emergency exit doors are in use, and people are wearing nothing but their clothing. (And those evac speed tests are done in a hangar by volunteers in no danger.) And isn't there a somewhat high rate of people "chickening out" of a 1st jump? And those are people that signed up to jump out of an airplane! How long do you think it'll take to evacuate the aircraft when you have a bunch of people who are terrified into near catatonia blocking the exit and the rest are waddling around with a huge backpack?
No, I haven't jumped out of a plane... but isn't hitting the tail a possible danger when you jump out of a plane not designed to be a jump plane? Also, the stall speed of a commercial airliner is a bit higher than a plane designed for jumping. How safe is it to jump out of an ordinary passenger aircraft at 160kts?
Reading on the JAL 123 incident, it appears that during much of that 32 minutes, the plane was not controllable; hardly a good time to try and get a bunch of panicked awkwardly burdened people out of an aircraft with seats, debris, injured passengers, etc. all over the place.
"It's obvious that parachutes won't help in every situation." It'll help in almost NO situations. If the plane is flying stable and level over ground suitable for novice parachuting, then the plane can probably, you know, actually land. And the plane is a LOT sturdier than a pile of terrified people jumping out of a plane in distress.
Life jackets are useful in far more situations...
1) If the plane goes down over the ocean, you are going to need the life jackets to have a non-zero chance of survival. Period. End of story.
2) Lots of airports (and plane routes) are located near coasts, bays, large lakes, ocean, etc. All that flat water makes for a fair (if not great) place to set a plane down in an emergency.
3) Life jackets are cheap, can be used untrained, require no maintenance, and weigh about a pound a piece.
Parachutes:
1) Can only be used with reasonable safety over ground almost equally suitable for an emergency landing. While certainly there are fatalities in most controlled emergency landings on ground other than a runway, I'd say they are probably a lot less than if you tried to get hundreds of panicked and untrained peopleon the ground via parachutes.
2) Weigh a lot. The lightest I found online were 15lb-ish a piece. That doesn't sound like a lot, but adding that much weight to the aircraft would have significant consequences to range, and cargo/pax capacity.
3) Must be periodically re-packed, at no small expense.
4) Are expensive.
5) Are bulky. Over-wing exits aren't exactly gigantic portals to begin with.
6) Spread the passengers over a huge area; you'd probably lose quite a few due to untreated injuries sustained on landing, exposure, thirst, etc. How are you going to FIND them? Radio beacons make for even more weight, expense, and maintenance. If the plane is in a civilized area where passengers could just call 911 from their cell on landing, then there probably would have been a place to land the plane.
Given that most accidents occur at altitudes utterly useless for a parachute evacuation, it seems to be a foolish safety measure. If you ask a pilot what he'd like if he had a 2+ tons to spend on safety, I guarantee they'd virtually all say they want more JET A.
This does not make me feel safer... this makes me feel like the airline thinks that there will inevitably be a crash and therefore I, who as a frequent flier has a higher chance of being in it, should be prepared. This makes me want to fly with another airline, the one that doesn't think it's planes are going to be crashing anytime soon.
Bow before me, for I am root.
So, you're saying we need to get people to carry more cash and make planes crash more often? I'm pretty sure one of those is illegal in most countries.
That it costs less to put a customer on this course than the air miles are worth?