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Is the Creative Class Engine Sputtering?

Geoffrey.landis writes "The 'creative class' was supposed to be the new engine of the United States economy, but according to Scott Timberg, writing in Salon, that engine is sputtering. While a very few technologists have become very wealthy, for most creative workers, the rise of amateurs and enthusiasts means that few are actually making a living. The new economy is good for the elite who own the servers, but, for most, 'the dream of a laptop-powered "knowledge class" is dead,' he says."

72 of 520 comments (clear)

  1. for the retarded... by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 5, Insightful

    it's called "patent trolling," "eternal copyright," and "software patents."

    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
    1. Re:for the retarded... by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If China is smart, they'll tell software patents to go to hell. When they then leave USA in the dust, it will be clear our system is foobarred.

      In theory patents are supposed to encourage people to spend more resources coming up with good ideas. Instead they do the opposite because good ideas in software for the most part just pop into one's head while pondering a problem to solve and are not the result of thousands of hours of planned lab toil.

      Thus, they are rewarding accidents that would happen anyhow. There are exceptions to the rule, but the rule overwhelms them in numbers.

      Further, software patents dissuade mix-and-match because of the many patents involved in mixing.

    2. Re:for the retarded... by JWW · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Bingo!!

      How much money is currently being wasted on litigation and licensing?

      That money would fund a STAGGERING amount of new product development, research, or advancement of current products, but its being WASTED on lawyers working for patent trolls.

      All the politicians want science, technology, and engineering jobs, but then they pass laws that destroy and hamper innovators and creators.

      Software patents should be completely illegal. Patents on computer hardware should have a term of 12-18 months. Copyright on anything should be 20 years or less, a generation of protection for a work should be enough.

      The absurd length of copyright and the extreme vagueness allowed in modern patents is killing the innovation we will need for the economy to actually improve.

    3. Re:for the retarded... by bipbop · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Parasites may benefit from being parasites, but that doesn't mean they aren't harmful and shouldn't be removed.

    4. Re:for the retarded... by blarkon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      India doesn't have software patents (http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2005/04/4837.ars) and we can see clearly how Indian software has left our patent encumbered western system in the dust with its amazing innovations.

    5. Re:for the retarded... by Alex+Belits · · Score: 5, Insightful

      India made a choice of building what is essentially a colonial economy without the colony part -- they produce things (call center "service", software) they can not possibly use at home, and rely on exporting them abroad, then (supposedly) using money to buy things abroad for local consumption. It builds no infrastructure, provides very distorted demand for education, and keeps large fraction of population in perpetual poverty.

      China, on the other hand, develops economy in a way that builds industrial infrastructure that can produce products directly usable locally.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    6. Re:for the retarded... by sourcerror · · Score: 2

      Which is the perfect setup to keep out small businesses ...

    7. Re:for the retarded... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      India doesn't have software patents (http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2005/04/4837.ars) and we can see clearly how Indian software has left our patent encumbered western system in the dust with its amazing innovations.

      How long did it take Japan to go from producing cheap and okay to producing first class goods?

    8. Re:for the retarded... by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      India made a choice of building what is essentially a colonial economy without the colony part

      I wasn't actually there, but I don't remember India making a choice. I recall it being made for them.

      China, on the other hand, develops economy in a way that builds industrial infrastructure that can produce products directly usable locally.

      China, on the other hand, is in a boom-bust cycle that will make what the USA is going through look like happy fun time. Or did you not notice they're producing whole cities no one wants to buy? I mean, Japan has kept it down to cars, and we mostly just build houses, but China has built enough needless, wasted, rotting cities to house what percentage of our population?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:for the retarded... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      1. Much of China's industrial infrastructure is only as reliable as its products. (You know the ones I mean...)

      I'm old enough to remember when people said the same thing about "Made in Japan".

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    10. Re:for the retarded... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      More time than it took China to do the same. Growing up I hated the cheap matchbox cars that would always break, and everything from China was junk. Now I want a Lenovo computer and nearly every apse product is made in Dina (BUT DESIGNED IN CALIFORNIA).

      China is much more similar to Japan than India, as I have yet to purchase any good that ever came from India. As China develops, however, it will make more and more sense to open factories in India and India will go through an even bigger revolution than it has with software. And then it will spread to the middle east when europe, the US, China, and India all need a place for cheap manufacturing. And then it will make more sense to produce in Africa. Eventually (In a hundred or so years) every major region of the world will have had an industrial revolution.

    11. Re:for the retarded... by WillAdams · · Score: 3, Insightful

      an AC wrote:

      >China is much more similar to Japan than India, as I have yet to purchase any good that ever came from India.

      Poke around a bit.

      Since the kids have taken over, there's been better quality control at Harbor Freight Tools and there have been some surprisingly nice things showing up from India:

      http://www.harborfreight.com/no-33-bench-plane-97544.html

      Discussion of it here:

      http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?173650-Harbor-Freight-quot-33-quot-Bench-Plane-I-like-it.-Especially-for-less-than-10.

      review here:

      http://forums.finewoodworking.com/fine-woodworking-knots/hand-tools/10-harbor-freight-plane

      People don't want to make junk --- give them the chance and the economic support and they'll choose to make good things (as opposed to ``good enough'').

      William
      (who is fortunate to have a bunch of tools from his father and grandfather)

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    12. Re:for the retarded... by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

      How long did it take Japan to go from producing cheap and okay to producing first class goods?

      if you seriously are asking, I would guess about 20 years. it was not overnight and the going joke was 'made in japan' (meaning, very cheap and undesireable). I'm 50 and was alive when 'made in japan' meant negative things.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    13. Re:for the retarded... by mapkinase · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think you are stepping on motorist/pedestrian problem: when you are behind the wheel, pedestrians are crawling evil creeps that solely exist to slow you down. When you are crossing the road, motorists are reckless obnoxious power-tripping assholes that solely exist to intimidate you down to a crack between pavement tiles.

      Creative mind wants to freely use all the intellectual baggage of the humanity internalized in his head. He also wants others to pay dearly for every singe use of his contribution to the aforementioned baggage.

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    14. Re:for the retarded... by next_ghost · · Score: 2

      It doesn't matter. You forget that China's growth is export-driven; they don't have the local demand base to support those industries (since the bulk of the population still can't afford to buy it). And if they're not honoring the copyrights/patents/trademarks of other countries, they can't sell to *any* of those countries, since the laws are now interlocking.

      Today is not like the old Cold War, where the West and the Soviets could say "fuck you" to each others patents because neither economic bloc traded with the other. China's only competitive advantage right now is cheap manual labor; if they lose this, the entire foundation of their growth so far turns to mud and the whole thing collapses.

      By the time their export destinations stop buying stuff, they will have big enough local demand to compensate. China will probably come into position of post-WW2 USA within the next decade or two, except that this time around, it'll be US economy that'll be wrecked like Europe after the war.

    15. Re:for the retarded... by hedwards · · Score: 2

      Japan is a much smaller country in terms of land mass, population and language groups. India has a similar problem to China in that they're the two largest countries by population and have dozens of languages with which to contend. China does have somewhat of an advantage in having one written language to cover the country, although that tends to be rendered moot by the fact that the people being attracted to the factories aren't likely to be literate in the first place.

    16. Re:for the retarded... by chrb · · Score: 2

      India is a poor choice for comparison - they had to start a hi-tech industry from scratch in a nation with the largest illiterate population in the world. The European Union would be a more valid comparison - where software patents are specifically excluded by the European Patent Convention. The lack of software patents doesn't seem to have hurt E.U. companies: the UK is one of the leading manufacturers of financial services software and videogames, and Germany has one of the most productive export economies in the world. See the Truffle100 list of top 100 EU software companies. The E.U. software industry is worth billions of Euros, despite (or, some would say because of) the lack of software patents.

    17. Re:for the retarded... by cfulton · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I was there and India did indeed make a choice. After independence the government decided that because of the LARGE population of people living in poverty (again an Indian problem born of the caste system not colonial occupation) they would build a system of 0% unemployment. This means that the government must generate or force industry to generate a lot of low end jobs. They end up with jobs like "blue tile cleaner and white tile cleaner". Two different jobs for the same bunch of tiles (I've seen it with my own eyes). The building I worked in must have had 40 security guards per floor. They have made a choice to generate a lot of jobs not increase income per job. This is a very different mindset than the western industrial mindset. Here in America we want to eliminate all the low wage jobs in exchange for a few high paying jobs.
      The use of the word "colonial" is what you are protesting but, the original poster is correct. They chose to a "colonial" style economy. If they hadn't they would have 50% unemployment and a revolution on their hands. We in the west make the mistake of seeing India as an emerging western style economy. The are not. They are an emerging Indian style economy.

      --
      No sigs in BETA. Beta SUCKS.
    18. Re:for the retarded... by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And then it will spread to the middle east when europe, the US, China, and India all need a place for cheap manufacturing. And then it will make more sense to produce in Africa. Eventually (In a hundred or so years) every major region of the world will have had an industrial revolution.

      No it won't, because there aren't enough people there to do that without significant automation. And if you have almost fully automated factories then labor is no longer the primary cost of production and it makes more sense to build them near where the consumers are and save yourself the shipping costs.

      Also, China is very different from previous countries that have done this. They have a billion people, and they aren't a democracy. That makes it very easy for them to have an underclass with a population larger than the entire United States which, by applying a little automation to get some (but not all) of them out of the factories and into a middle class, can make enough goods for both the foreign and domestic markets. Then they can use central planning to implement greater automation at a rate that can slowly increase the size of the middle class, but never in a way that would cause significant unemployment.

      The end result is going to be that China will be the last country to employ a large labor force in manufacturing. We could already automate half the stuff that they manufacture by hand there, the only reason we don't is that China doesn't want high unemployment and is more than willing to undervalue their currency and cause their population to work for slave wages in order to keep them working rather than starting an uprising. The second China can get any of those people into a middle class job (or, more realistically, the second any of those people dies or retires and is replaced by a young person with a better education), there will be a machine doing that work instead of a person.

    19. Re:for the retarded... by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      China will probably come into position of post-WW2 USA within the next decade or two, except that this time around, it'll be US economy that'll be wrecked like Europe after the war.

      I disagree. After WWII, Europe rapidly rebuilt itself (with help from the USA and its Marshall Plan of course), so fast that within 20 years you couldn't tell that a massive war had been fought there.

      The USA is going to look a lot more like the aftermath of the Roman Empire. Remember, after the Roman Empire fell, it never was rebuilt. It took 1000 years for Europe to even get back to a decent state of literacy and civilization comparable to what the Romans had, and Italy itself never became a world leader again.

  2. It's not that hard. by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 2

    I seem to making a decent living designing chips and I know lots of other people in a similar situation. If you're a 'creative worker' create something that people need.

    --
    Evil people are out to get you.
    1. Re:It's not that hard. by bryan1945 · · Score: 2

      According to the article, you are not a "creative worker" since you actually produce a physical product (eventually).

      Their spin on the phrase is more of artists, website writers, newspapers, film makers, and for some reason software writers (don't get that one, myself). This includes the distribution channels of the previous people- physical newspapers are dying, music and book stores are closing, movie rental shops are nearly dead. One of the themes was that the internet was going to open up more avenues to do more, and push prices down. Sure did, and now you can find pages and pages of "Cow Jokes" on Google. Now someone trying to produce something has to go against a much larger set of people trying to do the same thing. To get a book published before you needed a publisher that was willing to pay for the physical object upfront (unless you went to a 'designer press'). Now, with e-books, the barrier to entry is much lower, so you may make a few sales of a few bucks.
      It is an interesting article, though I don't agree with all of it. Seems like the most stable jobs now are with unions or in government positions for the lower skilled folks. With more knowledge and skills (and luck and/or who you know) you can advance to higher levels of management, which is slightly more stable than being a normal office worker.
      These are just some off-the-cuffs thoughts, I'm sure you all will be able to find more or find faults in them.

      --
      Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
    2. Re:It's not that hard. by cshark · · Score: 2

      In my particular field, I compete an awful lot with Indians, and rank amateurs. It's been this way as long as I can remember. In fact, when I started, I was a rank amateur. I was just really good at selling myself. That was fifteen years ago.

      I'm not saying this to brag, but times are better for me than they have ever been for me. I'm making more money than I ever have, and this last time I was unemployed... I found a new job in six days.

      My average is about three weeks in the present job market.
      If you feel like you're being slighted by the presence of amateurs in the market, you're doing something wrong.

      On a side note: I've never known anyone who owns servers to be stinking rich, either.

      --

      This signature has Super Cow Powers

  3. terrible whiny article by rish87 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ." Book editors, journalists, video store clerks, musicians, novelists without tenure". A lot of the 'jobs' he's talking about are radically changing or weren't worth anything to begin with. The article doesn't really have a concrete, well laid out argument. It sounds like yet another generalized complaint I've kept hearing for the past couple years: the elite are taking all my money and I'm a poor starving average joe. Except here it is some ill defined "creative class". Adapt to the world around you and use your money wisely. Same age old problem, same age old solution.

    1. Re:terrible whiny article by antifoidulus · · Score: 2

      All the aforementioned professions never made all that much money to begin with, or at least not the vast majority of them(save for perhaps book editors, but with e-books I would see demand for them growing, not shrinking)

      Seriously, since when did more than 10% of novelists or musicians or journalists etc. ever make tons of money? Most of them toil in anonymity, eventually either giving it up and getting a day job or doing whatever it takes just to scrape by for however many years. This guy obviously never did his homework.

    2. Re:terrible whiny article by swell · · Score: 2

      Correct- the 'creative class' is confused with journalists, programmers and coffee shop employees. Timberg speaks of the "laptop-powered "knowledge class"" ... what the heck is that? Are you talking about the texters and Facebook failures who are steeped in trivia? Do these people ever have an original thought or quiet time to develop one?

      There are creative individuals, there is no creative class. Great artists, writers and composers are not part of any 'class'. They do not follow the beat of the social media or the popular press. They do not usually emerge from prestigious universities and other bastions of past culture.

      The article is diffuse and pointless. It seems to be a general rant about hard times, but who is affected and why it matters is unclear from the story.

      --
      ...omphaloskepsis often...
    3. Re:terrible whiny article by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 2

      The problem that the author does a horrible job of addressing is that the market has been expanded from your small locality to the entire globe.

      If you write a song or create a film instead of playing a coffee shop you can now sell your work to billions of people.

      The problem is that the coffee shop is now there is no need for the 'local creatives' since remote performance (and web-hosted performance) allows billions of people to find the top performers.

      If someone was a really great blogger then instead of a few hundred local patrons to influence you can have billions. But that means that less people can 'serve' a greater audience. So even if the price drops to $0.0001 per reader on what the latest/greatest album is from $0.50 for the local music store clerk you're narrowing the window of success.

      A long long long time ago you might have a story teller per camp fire. A 50:1 ratio of customers to creatives. Now the only way to make money when each view only nets $0.001 per view is to get 10,000,000 viewers.

      We're needing less and less creatives since duplication spreads one artist's work to millions.

      Similarly in the invention field you don't need a local engineer designing local solution when mass production means you just hire one engineer who does it really really well.

      Yes, everyone benefits from far superior labor (One unbelievably talented singer or engineer can entertain or solve a problem for millions or billions) but we also suffer because we only need the super-stars to fill our lives with content.

    4. Re:terrible whiny article by Orne · · Score: 4, Interesting

      These people need to understand the technological revolution of the last 20 years has changed the value equation for content creators. When anyone can blog, the value of a journalist drops. When anyone can film on their phone and post it to YouTube, a studio has to work harder (competition), and the value of a movie distribution system drops. When anyone can write a story, make an ebook and sell it on Amazon or the Apple Store, then the value of a writer goes down.

      "Everyone can be super! And when everyone's super, no-one will be." -- The Incredibles

  4. He is using strange definitions by tftp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The author puts "book editors, journalists, video store clerks" into that creative class. It's hard to see why a video store clerk (what is a video store?) is a creative persona. He is merely shining the scanner on your purchases. He can be illiterate for all practical purposes.

    Musicians? Well, those that are good are doing OK. The rest... perhaps they are in the wrong business. Same applies to "aspiring novelists" - there is always ten graphomaniacs for one semi-decent writer. Good writers are even more rare.

    Computer programmers are also like that. Those who write simple, boring code - but lots of it - will lose to their Chinese and Indian competition. Those who write difficult code remain in business. I personally specialize in microcontrollers, hardware, FPGA, real-time and high speed stuff. There is plenty of work in this area.

    To summarize, if you are truly creative in what is in demand then there will be always someone willing - and desperate - to pay you.

    1. Re:He is using strange definitions by flaming+error · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > Musicians? Well, those that are good are doing OK.

      Gimme a break. Making music and making money are completely different skills. There are plenty of wonderful artists creating beautiful things that have to make their living doing something else.

    2. Re:He is using strange definitions by tftp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Making music and making money are completely different skills.

      That's true everywhere. Writing a good, fast code in C and assembly is in no way related to smooth-talking a client into signing a contract to develop the abovementioned code. Many programmers who are capable of the former in their sleep can't do the latter if their life depended on it.

      The musician in your example (talented but poor) needs to either learn how to develop his business or hire a manager. A talented programmer can develop business skills to manage his own business (contracts, ISV like iPhone/Android) or he can join someone else's company; then business opportunities will be taken care of by someone else (along with the lion's share of profits.)

      It is not easy for a programmer to gain businessman's skills. I'd guess it's equally hard for an artist. But that's what the money is paid for. If you don't want to touch that, you are still free to code (or compose music) in your parents' basement. Only don't expect anyone to know about you or want to pay you.

    3. Re:He is using strange definitions by GoodNewsJimDotCom · · Score: 3, Interesting

      >>>That's true everywhere. Writing a good, fast code in C and assembly is in no way related to smooth-talking a client into signing a contract to develop the abovementioned code. Many programmers who are capable of the former in their sleep can't do the latter if their life depended on it.

      Exactly. Take a quality coder, a guy who spend all his time in his mom's basement making new projects, and introduce him to HR. It is a culture clash. One guy spends all his time working with people, the other spends next to none of his time working with people. HR knows nothing about coding and has been known to toss out programmers resumes because they don't explicitly specify they know Microsoft Word on them. At the same time, HR that does know stuff about coding might throw your resume out if you put Microsoft Word on it :P

      In all this, there is a push to outsource programming jobs overseas, so while a company may be looking for American Workers, it is just a smoke screen, they won't hire you no matter how badly you crush their programming task they assign you. They tell Congress,"There is a shortage of quality workers in the US, so let us have more Visas." There is no shortage of programming talent in the US, just a shortage of jobs since the Dot Com bust.

    4. Re:He is using strange definitions by tftp · · Score: 2

      What exactly constitutes "difficult"?

      First, as you suggested, it can be simple code that requires specialized knowledge. For example, a customer walks into a bar and says "Hey, can anyone here code me something for Renesas R5F2136CSDFA?" If you are not already familiar with at least basics of the IC you need too much time to become efficient. There are hundreds of just Renesas MCUs, and there are tens of MCU Manufacturers (Microchip, Atmel, Analog Devices, TI, etc.) - so this is a very steep (or wide) learning curve. It's even worse if you have to also design the hardware to run it all on. There are tons of catches, and errata summary for every silicon is printed on several pages.

      Anyone can learn to write it given the proper documentation and materials to work with. - yes, sure. However if you, as a customer, need a working code, you have to be out of your mind to give the job to a guy who heard about the chip first time in his life. Some of those "materials" are thousands of pages long. Some aspects of programming for those MCUs are not documented. Frameworks (libraries) have bugs, side effects and whatnot, and they are hundreds of thousands LOCs long. You also need to know which libraries work and which don't; generally, you should approach the project having a good toolkit at your disposal - a compiler, an RTOS, a DSP library, an I/O driver package for this particular MCU, a TCP/IP stack, etc. These tools also must work with each other; you can't easily run a task ripped out of VxWorks under FreeRTOS or QNX. You will also need some programming hardware, and it may cost pretty penny in some cases.

      Second, the code itself can be hard to write. For example, you want a good, secure AES implementation on a MCU that doesn't have an AES peripheral (some AVR32 do, for example.) You probably need to write most of cipher code in assembly, most of key management in C, and you need to interface with something to send keys in and out (if out is an option.) On top of that, your product should be resistant to various hardware-based attacks (power, timing, emissions.) Such side effects of most machine instructions are not even documented. You will have to verify your design using test equipment. This task is hard.

      Third, the code itself may be unobvious. For example, the customer wants you to write a complete APCO-25 stack. Where do you start if you have never written a wireless stack in your life? How do you even organize it? In practice people write it and then rewrite and then rewrite some more until it becomes usable. Is your customer willing to wait until you learn, and pay you all the while? Sometimes the answer is "no" and you must come into the contract armed with previously acquired skills. Plenty of those skills are very specialized, and sometimes localized. That Project 25 code that I mentioned is specific to North America. An Indian programmer would likely have no exposure to it - even if he may have had experience with similar protocols. Older people often have more experience; plenty of contractors here are 40 and older; they know what they are doing.

      Fourth, you need to think about the quality of the code. A spaghetti code that doesn't check any input will work fine on correct data, but it will crash and burn on erroneous input. If you are building a life support system - or just a TV remote control - you probably don't want that. You can write good, reliable code for a MCU. However your options on reporting a problem are very limited (there is no printer or Internet connected to a TV remote.) You have to write the code so that it simply doesn't crash. You can't afford a crash. This is different, culturally, from the GUI coding for Windows. There if it crashes you break into the debugger and see what happened. If an MCU crashes things just stop, and you (without an ICE, and often even with it) can't tell what happened and how you got there. Interrupt handlers are notorious at that. Writing firmware requires good coding discipline. Every routine that you put in

  5. Exploiting creativity is what makes $ by spasm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No-one makes money from 'creativity'. You make money from what economists call 'rent-seeking' from creative output, be it yours or someone else's. The people who get rich (or even just make a decent living) are those who are good at rent seeking, and those people aren't necessarily the same people who are good at 'creating'. Hence Disney inc still aggressively rent-seeking from the creative output of illustrators, animators, voice artists etc 70 years after the creative act, and you can bet those creatives or their descendants aren't making any ongoing money from it.

    Being able to work at home or from your local cafe on your laptop doesn't magically free you from the need to either have a lot of capital to promote and exploit your creative output, or alternately the need to sell your creative labor to someone who does, it just frees those with that capital from the need to supply the infrastructure of an OSHA-compliant workplace.

    1. Re:Exploiting creativity is what makes $ by damburger · · Score: 2

      The question is, if the creative industry is largely rent-seeking instead of producing, where is the money coming from to pay them? Its not like western economies manufacture enough to feed the 'knowledge economy' beast on their output alone.

      The answer, I think, is resources. The dirty little secret of modern economies is that the largest determinant of our output is our input of resources. The notion that we shape our own fate through our ingenuity is largely a fable, told to justify a blatantly unfair economic order.

      --
      If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
  6. Race to the bottom by blarkon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The creative class as a driver of the local economy was always a big stretch. If a guy (or girl) sitting in a coffee shop in Seattle can do something for $X, it's likely that a guy (or girl) sitting in a coffee shop in Estonia can do the same thing for a fraction of $X. Smart people that make up the creative class are evenly distributed across the planet. There will be places where you can support yourself on a creative class income, but it's not likely to be most of the places that people read /.

  7. Economics... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Until recently the 'creative class' would be distributed between struggling (70%), getting by (25%) and going great (5%). This applied to photographers, artists, writers, glass workers, a whole swathe of people. But with the rise of the internet all but the last one are being undermined financially by virtually free distribution of material from amateurs, as well as the effects of digitial copying.

    Economics suggests that the price of an item will tend towards the marginal cost of production, particulaly with large scale production. So, for all those items which can be reproduced digitally at almost no cost, the price will tend towards zero.

    So, the 'creative classes' need to think about new ways of making money from their skills. These days I see many top notch photographers are running workshops, which I think shows more forward thinking. Instead of bemoaning the way digital reproduction has undermined their art, they have started teaching others how to produce great images. This benefits them (we pay $$$) as well as improving the overall body of photographic work.

    Maybe some of the other 'creative classes' need to re-assess how to make a living from their skills.

    1. Re:Economics... by blarkon · · Score: 2

      That's part of the reason that many authors actually make more money running writing workshops than writing books. Neal Stephenson said at an interview once that one of the most common questions he got from other writers was "so where do you teach your writing classes"

  8. Re:Shut the fuck up by cshark · · Score: 2

    Well, you know man, I had a laptop before it was cool.

    --

    This signature has Super Cow Powers

  9. Mod parent up! by khasim · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's easier (and more lucrative) for existing companies to use lawyers to bankrupt anyone with a creative idea that might threaten those companies.

    The moment you try to capitalize on your idea, you'll be looking at cease-and-desist letters and lawsuits claiming some kind of infringement.

    The entire system needs an overhaul.

    1. Re:Mod parent up! by trout007 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I highly recommend thus book. The problem stems from the definition of property. It's main characteristic is that it is scarce. Real goods are property. Ideas are not. The problem with patents and copyrights are they are trying to make a non scarce good artificially scarce.

      http://mises.org/books/against.pdf

      --
      I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
    2. Re:Mod parent up! by Javagator · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When I am developing software, I have a lot of new ideas, many of them at least as good as some of the software patents that I have seen. My motivation for coming up with these ideas is to make my software more efficient and more reliable, not to patent them and keep the company lawyers employed. If I had to worry about whether someone had already patented one of my ideas, my productivity would come to a halt.

    3. Re:Mod parent up! by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 3, Informative

      What's not scarce are the implementations once designed. The real problem is that we don't have any way of rewarding ideas without these easily copyable implementations. Nobody so far has come up with a workable solution to this problem. Well, none more workable than copyright.

      Sure we do: No software patents + 14 year copyright.

    4. Re:Mod parent up! by tlhIngan · · Score: 3, Informative

      I highly recommend thus book. The problem stems from the definition of property. It's main characteristic is that it is scarce. Real goods are property. Ideas are not. The problem with patents and copyrights are they are trying to make a non scarce good artificially scarce.

      Actually, copyright and patents, when given properly are for scarce things. Ideas are a dime a dozen. However, taking that idea and fleshing out a whole work (book/song/movie/wthatever) takes time and energy. Copyright seeks to protect that investment in order to improve society.

      Patents are similar - there are tons of ideas out there. However, turning an idea into a practical machine isn't as easy, so patents seek to protect implementations of ideas.

      The problem is that copyright keeps getting extended and penalties made harsher which basically destroy the original goal - to protect the real work of taking some idea and turning it into something.

      Ditto patents, but mostly because software is quite an intangible that the "old laws" really cannot cope with . After all, IP laws date back many centuries, and back then, there was really nothing equivalent to software - it's something that takes an idea and is written that causes machinery to work in specific ways. Before that, a machine was a well-isolated system that had inputs, did something with it, and produced an output to accomplish some task in a specific fashion. But software can accomplish the same task in many ways, as long as it obeys the system limitations as the physical system it's in.

      Then there's software that doesn't interact with any physical machine other than the computer it's running on. Or maybe not even that. And that's a problem.

    5. Re:Mod parent up! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      You perfectly illustrated why patents are evil: it is impossible to avoid violating them, you can only wait to see if anyone sues you.

      If you have an idea and implement it you could spend vast amounts of time searching patent databases, but that is unrealistic for most people. Furthermore you might fall foul of patents that are not in the database yet but only come to your attention in the future, after you put in lots of work in your idea.

      I have yet to hear of a single instance where patents were vital for a person to make a profit.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:Mod parent up! by jc42 · · Score: 2

      You perfectly illustrated why patents are evil: it is impossible to avoid violating them, you can only wait to see if anyone sues you.

      This has been a growing problem with copyright, too, especially during the past couple of decades as society's information has moved online. You can see this clearly in music, where what used to be a routine "performance" can lead to prosecution as a copyright violation.

      One way I've found to express it is to ask: If I have a tune in my head, and want to perform it, how can I discover whether it's copyrighted, and if so, who owns the copyright? I've asked reps of a few music publishers this question, and their basic answer (told with a straight face, as far as I can tell) is that I should buy a copy of everything they've ever printed, and search it for the tune.

      There is a certain lack of practicality to this, of course, but the only current alternative is to play your music in public, and see if anyone sues you.

      We are at the point where we could actually provide a music lookup site, which would look up a fragment of melody, and tell you what published music contains something similar. Yes, there are technical challenges, especially with the variability of all forms of music notation, but they're probably solvable. But the problem is that the database behind such a lookup would itself be a clear violation of copyright, since it would have to contain a representation of every piece of music ever published, and no publisher would agree to having their published works in your database. The only legal way to read their music is from a copy of their publication which you have purchased.

      So with both patent and copyright, we have a situation where almost anything you or I do (i.e., create or perform) is possibly a violation of a patent and/or copyright, but we have no way of discovering this except by doing it and waiting to see if someone sues us.

      Or we can just refrain from ever creating or performing anything. But even that may not be safe. Consider that corporations are taking out patents on pieces of DNA. This probably means that we can't have children without violating a patent. But it's potentially even worse: Our normal cell production to heal injuries or grow new hair/skin could be a DNA patent violation. We don't know; we can only wait for the courts to decide.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    7. Re:Mod parent up! by jafac · · Score: 2

      When I am developing software - I'm just trying to solve problems for my customer. In the quickest and easiest, and most-sane way I can imagine. Sometimes that's based on something I was taught. Sometimes, it's based on something I've seen someone else do, in the past (but - I'm not going to copy/paste verbatim, of course.). Sometimes, it's just what makes sense, and I do it. I don't imagine for one second that with millions of others who have gone before me, that I'm the first one to solve problem x in this way. Nor am I going to waste my customer's billed-time looking up prior art that I may be infringing on. I re-invent wheels on a daily basis! That's what I do.

      If someone patents the wheel, and sues me. Well, then, I am fucked. I am fucked, and I starve.
      I solve problems.
      I am a problem solver. Not a lawyer, and not an inventor, and not an entrepreneur.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
  10. Shortsighted by hedgemage · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The creative class is failing because the middle class who would support them is shrinking. Instead of money going to thousands and thousands of small creative enterprises, it is going to only a few dozen large enterprises (i.e. the 'job creators').
    Its not the creative class that's failing, its the middle class.

    1. Re:Shortsighted by GoodNewsJimDotCom · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, you know something is wrong when educated people can't find a job coming out of college. It is one thing to go,"Get an education so you don't work at Mcdonalds." And quite another thing to go,"Get an education, but work at Mcdonalds anyway, and maybe by the time you're 50 you can finally pay off your student loans and move out of your parents house."

    2. Re:Shortsighted by thatskinnyguy · · Score: 2

      False. I'm 27 and have my Master's Degree paid in full. The truly creative class, in this economy, exploits whatever the hell it can in order to survive and grow. It doesn't matter if you're an Art History professor or an Engineer these days.

      --
      The game.
    3. Re:Shortsighted by Overzeetop · · Score: 2

      Yeah. See, the problem lies on both sides. People graduating from college are expecting to receive exceptional salaries for incomplete skills. Now that the workforce is mobile (you can, and probably will, change jobs every 3-5 years), it's hard for a business to justify paying $40-50,000 a year so that they can reduce the productivity of a truly worthwhile, $80,000-$100,000/yr senior person to train you for two years so that you can become useful.

      At least in engineering, even the best schools are not preparing the average (or even above average) college grad for work in the industry. They're giving them basic knowledge. In a production environment (i.e. all non-governmental/non-academic), it takes between 1.5 and 3 years to get someone "trained" to be able to do a professional job with significant autonomy. That training is going mean that the new hire probably won't actually start making money for about 3-5 years. If they're going to leave in 3-5 years, that means a new-hire out of college is, at best, a break-even proposition for the business. As a businessman, I will tell you that break-even is not what we shoot for.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  11. Zombies ate them too by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Funny

    Machines made manual labor a cheap commodity, and offshoring made brains a cheap commodity. There's fewer and fewer new organs to economically milk. Maybe our yankers will give us another decade or two.....if you have a good one.

  12. The so-called "creative" market is saturated. by SexyKellyOsbourne · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The true creative class is the people who are willing to put forth the hard work to study particle physics, microbiology, colloid science, differential equations, managerial accounting, and parallel algorithms. Their dedication is what makes carrying out their creative dreams possible. As the article states, they're doing well, as there's still scarcity in that market. Their competition in overseas diploma mills that teach to the test do not produce the same results.

    What this article is referring to is the so-called "creative class" who thought they could start a grunge band by learning power chords, buy a Canon EOS and become a professional photographer, or become a psychologist because they were interested in their bad teenage relationships. They are the types who thought they'd win the lottery and become rock stars without the serious learning required to invent, build, and deploy something new.

    Those people in the so-called "creative class" locked in an entitlement mentality are a dime a dozen.It may have worked in the 1990s when they and their friends were given unlimited subsidy by coddling baby boomer parents, but these days, you're on your own and actually have to know your shit. Universities today aren't full of ambitious engineers who will take full advantage of their $50K in student loans, they're full of future waitresses and customer service reps with a piece of paper.

    A better article would be "Why did 17 million people go to college?" -- http://chronicle.com/blogs/innovations/why-did-17-million-students-go-to-college/27634

    1. Re:The so-called "creative" market is saturated. by meta-monkey · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Interesting that you mention photography. I'm a full-time professional photographer, although I actually went to school, apprenticed, practiced, paid my dues, etc, and have been running a studio for 10 years now. I would consider myself part of this "creative class" the article mentions, as I get by on my creativity and use the de-localization of the internet to mean that I can be anywhere, create anywhere, and sell to anywhere. Before the crash, when I could make money from middle class people as well as the wealthy, it was way, way easier. Today I'm working twice as hard for half the money, but I'm not complaining...at least I'm still in business, paying my bills and doing what I love. But I'm in the very rare minority...about 98% of photographers are struggling to make it, getting day jobs, or living off their spouses who have a real job.

      What you said about "buy a Canon EOS and become a professional photographer" is definitely true. In the past 10 years, the number of "professional photographers" has about quadrupled, easily, based on attendance numbers at professional photography conventions and local business listings. And it is mostly 23 year old girls with doctor hubbies who pay for their gear to give them something to do to keep them out of trouble, or it's guys who work in IT looking for a weekend hobby they can make some extra money at. But they're not actually "making a living" at it...they're living off their husband or their real job.

      In the meantime, though, all of these part-timers are putting a serious hurting on the former full-time photographers. The mom-and-pop studios that have been around forever. As their businesses dwindled (death by a thousand cuts), they've had to close up or get part-time jobs themselves to make ends meet. So there's more photographers, more "creatives" than ever before...but fewer and fewer of them are actually making a living at it. The article is dead-on about how this is a story not being told, and how it's the corporations who ride on the backs of these creatives that are actually making money. "The Industry," ie, the camera makers like Canon and Nikon, software companies like Adobe, the "professional organizations" like the PPA, WPPI, and the magazines trip over themselves to blow smoke up everyone's asses about how great and wonderful it is to be a professional photographer, and champion "success stories" (which are mostly untrue), because they don't care how many photographers there are or whether they're making any money or not. Every new schmuck who opens up shop has to go buy thousands of dollars in camera equipment, software, websites and services, and the corporations make bank. So in a time when fewer and fewer photographers are making enough money to get by, you would never, ever know it listening to the industry.

      Anyway, the article is spot-on. The corporations are winning, the people who "own the server farm" are winning. Blogs using crowd-sourced cell-phone pictures for news stories: winning; photojournalists: losing. istock.com and Getty Images selling stock images for $1 and paying the photographer a few cents: winning; editorial photographers: losing. Camera makers, software vendors selling $$$$$ in gear to housewives: winning; portrait and wedding photographers: losing.

      The moral is, if you want to make money in the "creative economy," don't be a creative, sell stuff to creatives.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  13. Re:Shut the fuck up by Chrisq · · Score: 2

    Well, you know man, I had a laptop before it was cool.

    I've still got one now it isn't cool any more you insensitive clod.

  14. How about a radical suggesion? by damburger · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So, the problem highlighted is that 'creative' people - and lets for the moment give them the benefit of the doubt on the level of their creativity - cannot find paid employment that allows them to produce new the new ideas and culture that keeps a society from stagnating.

    My question is, why does everyone have to work?

    We are trapped by absurd, outdated Protestant work ethics. Failure to bust your gut 50 hours a week is a sign of moral weakness, according to our leaders (most of whom have only ever worked through choice, not necessity) and our newspapers - sometimes even our teachers and parents.

    This ethic is reflected in a society that is structured in a way that survival is next to impossible without work. Don't fool yourselves - even social safety nets here in Europe are specifically designed to make lack of full time employment unsustainable over the long term. What we need is to provide people with a decent living regardless of what they do, and make anything earned through work a bonus.

    Maybe its time to stop blindly forcing the square pegs of our society (and everyone else) into the round hole of clock punching, just to serve some ancient disgust at the supposed 'fecklessness' of those who don't like the 8-6 run (I think its safe to say 9-5 is mostly a fantasy in the west now)

    Its a valid question of how to pay for this; but not actually a difficult one. The simplest is to go after the rent-seekers; money earned by not doing anything can't possibly be created due to an incentive for the person earning it to do anything, so lets have it. Start with the Earth's natural resources - I have always considered the notion of a creature with a maximum lifespan barely over 100 years claiming that part of a 4 billion year old planet is his and his only to exploit.

    Might it not work? Sure. But considering the current economic order is grinding to a halt, it is certainly worth a shot.

    --
    If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
    1. Re:How about a radical suggesion? by NoSig · · Score: 2

      Let's take you up on your suggestion and extrapolate into the future. You won't need an education unless you think it's interesting enough to do for its own sake. For example I am guessing that not many people will choose to get a plumber's education just for the joy of making shit flow. Who's going to fix your toilet if no one needs to work and it requires a skilled plumber to fix it? Who's going to build new buildings? Grow food? I think you suggestion requires robots to be able to do all the jobs for us, and we aren't at that point yet.

    2. Re:How about a radical suggesion? by damburger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ...and the above poster demonstrates why western society is absolutely doomed.

      I didn't mention socialism. I certainly didn't advocate the bringing back the USSR. I said nothing about regulating the markets (not a bad idea at all, but one not actually connected to my suggestion.) Yet you invoke some inane, pop-economic truthiness and claim you can predict exactly how people will act, and that this makes any suggestion counter the the current economic order equivalent to Soviet socialism.

      You also suggest that anybody who isn't working is a layabout. To support this stupid statement, you would have to conclude that the recession currently going on has coincided with a great increase in laziness over a very short period of time...

      --
      If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
    3. Re:How about a radical suggesion? by damburger · · Score: 2

      Plumbing does pay well and is, if you pardon the allusion, regular work ;)

      But I'm not convinced money is the only reason why people go into plumbing or . Maybe some people never get into academic subjects at school, but they are decent problem solvers, and have good spatial awareness and manual dexterity. They might want to do a job that Slashdotters look down on because it fits their skills, and will make them useful and respected.

      Also, there is just the possibility plumbers are making a rational choice to maximise their happiness: http://www.cityandguilds.com/24635.html

      --
      If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
    4. Re:How about a radical suggesion? by Trepidity · · Score: 3, Insightful

      your proposal, which amounts to forcibly taking money from the productive to support the lazy and indolent, is the very essence of socialism

      It's interesting to learn on Slashdot that Milton Friedman and F.A. Hayek were socialists...

  15. Value system by Internetuser1248 · · Score: 2

    The issue here as far as I am concerned is that the article supposes a values system based on money and profit. The phrase "the rise of amateurs and enthusiasts means that few are actually making a living. " is a good example. Personally as someone who's values are based on quality of life and advancement of the human race's knowledge and experience, I would say the creative class is booming and the amateurs and enthusiasts are the main engine for that. I personally am an amateur and an enthusiast in the area of game development, and although my own offerings are minimal as yet, it seems that the majority of innovation in the field and also the majority of value added (my values, not money) are coming from the independents, amateurs and enthusiasts. If major game studios were bringing out anything that broke new ground it would be a different story but they seem to be operating on the premise that you make more money from a tried and true formula, than from trying new things. They may even be right about this. This is why I believe that a system of values based on money is flawed. All in all, I hear only good news from the creative sector recently (apart from copyright lawsuits), and the fact that people aren't making a living is more of the same. The less money there is in it, the more the people involved will be working towards other goals, goals like "because I love my art". This increases the quality of the products and decreases the cost to society for enjoying them. I realise it sucks for people who live in countries without a real social welfare system, starving to death for your art, while a time honoured tradition, is not a lot of fun.

  16. Only the best ideas win and they don't employ many by erice · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In the old days, most new ventures failed. Only a very few people could be at the top when an idea exploded. That wasn't a big problem. Fully exploiting those ideas required hiring lots of people. And thats how most people made their living. They didn't have to make a big win themselves. They just needed to be useful those who did.

    Enter the economy of today. Most new ventures still fail. Occasionally, one still wins. But when it comes time to hire all those people to exploit the idea, they don't. Either the need for large numbers of employers never materializes due to automation and the non-physical nature of the work or, if they really must hire, they hire overseas.

    The myth of the creative class was created out of need to believe we had an out. It was obvious to anyone that the American dream could no longer be supported by manufacturing. And I don't think anyone really believed that retail and burger flipping was an option. There needed to be something that was productive but different from what goes on in the emerging world and, therefore, safe. Well, it isn't all that different and it isn't safe. Employment security in the info economy didn't even survive beyond the business cycle in which it was born.

  17. Sorry, but... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2

    There has to BE a new economy before anybody, creative or otherwise, can be an "engine" for it.

    Unfortunately, as we have seen, our economy has been (so far) too full of old greedy curmudgeons who will exploit anybody, including the government and the innocent, to keep the old economy going for just a few more years so they can continue to line their pockets.

  18. Doing it yourself doesn't have to break the bank by BeforeCoffee · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have homebrew business ideas that I've been developing and I wanted to own my own servers and learn how to rack and manage them. I could have rented time on a cloud or PHP hosting site or whatever. But I figure that controlling my server infrastructure means controlling my costs. I consider that to be like owning my means of production if you wanna get all marxist about it.

    I'm no sysadmin, but I know enough to get around Linux. I'm not doing an awesome job of it, and I have a big meltdown failure once every two years or so. Usually just a harddrive failure that I can recover from, but sometimes it's more serious. My sites haven't earned enough popularity to get sustained intense internet traffic yet; so far, my boxes have done okay with the occasional big burst of traffic for my sites ( https://clubcompy.com/ and http://cardmeeting.com/ ) that I get from Slashdot or some random blog.

    I negotiated my costs as a fixed $150/mo for 4U and throttled monthly bandwidth. And I'm not alone, in the colocation facility I rent at, I see a lot of homebrew rigs racked up with google and yahoo-owned servers (obviously not in the same rack and not as well cooled, heh.) I had no idea what I was doing, and the techs at the facility were totally cool and taught me how to rack my boxes and helped hold them up for me while I mounted them to the rails. The server and network hardware that I have probably totals about 4K and I built them up over years. I've still got 2U free for future expansion. I use only mini-ITX form factor mobos because I want to rack them in teensy enclosures so I can max out my rackspace, and those motherboards run cool so they go for years without any failure - heat kills. I buy passively cooled MB's whenever they're available and still meet my requirements. I have found Intel Atom boards to be extremely reliable in 24/7 operation. CPU-wise they stink, and I wish I could go 64-bit with more RAM, but I just need cheep life support for SATA and ethernet at this stage. I've had DIMM's die before motherboards, I don't mind spending extra for the best manufacturing quality there.

    If you have a steady, good paying job and you're a developer, you should have a homebrew project that you hope/wish/dream will someday blow up and become your livelihood. No excuses about cost if you have even a couple hundred dollars a month of discretionary funds to burn. If anything, do it for fun and chalk the costs up to hobby expenses and do it to learn new things. Make it a long term project - over years - and you can pay for it yourself. You don't need magical silicon valley angel vc startup capital to do very cool things on the internet or in wireless apps.

    Dave

  19. Re:Creative Class by Dunbal · · Score: 2

    so many starving artists/musicians/actors/etc.?

    Because you think that creativity automatically confers wealth. That's not true. Wealthy musicians/artists/actors have a combination of acting skills as well as a great deal of luck in "getting that part" that everyone wanted that resulted in the breakthrough etc etc etc. Not everyone can be at the top of the pyramid at the same time - there is simply no room. But being at the top is easy. And not everyone at the bottom sucks, a lot of them are simply not at the right place at the right time to move up the pyramid.

    Next time you are near a street musician or some street theater, or are listening to some unknown band in a bar/club, stop a while and pay attention to the talent. Yeah maybe the singer is a little off but the guitarist is really good, etc. There is talent everywhere.

    I count myself firmly in the uncreative group

    Why? Do you have no skills whatsoever? Aren't you good at what you do, or any hobby of yours? Myself I can't draw worth a damn, I'm a pretty awful piano player, a fair singer, but boy I have a talent for abstraction that stuns everyone around me. I built my wife a garden, complete with stairs and storm drainage system and electrical wiring, deck, stone floor, planters - a place she is absolutely in love with. Am I a landscaper or a contractor? No. I'm a doctor. But it seemed logical to me what should go where, and building is fairly simple. I insist that everyone has latent talent somewhere. Maybe you just haven't found yours yet.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  20. Re:possibly a bigger issue than global warming by epine · · Score: 2

    The irony of course is that people will be saying that global warming was manufactured by Exxon and other big corporations to distract us from the far more severe problem of the contraction of meaningful wages.

  21. Re:Creative Class by GospelHead821 · · Score: 2

    Not everyone can be at the top of the pyramid at the same time - there is simply no room. But being at the top is easy. And not everyone at the bottom sucks, a lot of them are simply not at the right place at the right time to move up the pyramid.

    Next time you are near a street musician or some street theater, or are listening to some unknown band in a bar/club, stop a while and pay attention to the talent. Yeah maybe the singer is a little off but the guitarist is really good, etc. There is talent everywhere.

    I think that more frequent recognition of this fact is critical to driving innovation and cultural evolution. Right now, I feel like we're saddled with the myth of the market. The American narrative states that anybody with talent and drive will make it to the top if only they work hard enough. I agree with what you've said, however; that narrative is untrue. Yes, hard work is required but it's observation bias to assume that just because most people who made it to the top worked hard that it was the cause of their success.

    In both the arts and the sciences, I think that the cost to society of this mentality is huge. Yes, the rise of amateurs in the creative fields has been a blow to professionals. That's at least in part because traditional barriers to entry have been torn down. Unfortunately, as this article highlights, while the barriers to entry may be gone, the barriers to success, as traditionally defined in a capitalist market economy, are higher than ever. In my opinion, this is a huge failure of the market. Innovation and culture are extremely valuable but the market can't always put a price on them. If we demand of our innovators and artists that they either 1) create something that the market will buy, 2) have a day job that cuts into their creative time and energy, or 3) suffer poverty for the sake of creating innovations or art that will enrich everybody else, we are doing a disservice to those innovators and artists and making ourselves, as a society, poorer as a result.

    To put it a different way, innovation and creativity shouldn't be a lottery. We can't really know what "the next big thing" will be and it seems disingenuous to punish the 9 cultural experimenters who didn't hit the right combination before going bankrupt or burning out and then reward the 1 who came along after them, studied what they did, and devised the right combination from their failures. There was valuable work done by those 9 people but only the 10th was able to create a marketable invention or service. I think that holding out the hope of being that 10th person as the incentive for innovators and artists to keep doing their thing is a TERRIBLE way to say that we value the contributions they make.

    --
    Virtue finds and chooses the mean.
    Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
  22. The real problem ... by MacTO · · Score: 2

    The real problem is that creative people often lack business skills, and marketers have found a way to exploit that by marketing other peoples' products without actually paying for the product that they market.

    I don't know whether to blame this on the ignorance of creative people or the greed of sales people. I'm inclined to blame the latter because this has been an ongoing problem (e.g. music publishers) and we can't be specialists in everything (e.g. most people are good at producing content or good at marketing, but few are great at both).

  23. Re:You have got to be kidding! by Overzeetop · · Score: 2

    No, he's partly right. There are lots of places to live where $10,000 a year is enough to survive. For someone in the creative class, with a solid foundation in a technical or artistic field which can be performed mostly via remote, can certainly make that kind of money in a 10 hour work week.

    The problem is that most people don't want to live where $10,000 can be stretched for a year, nor do they want to live in a manner which requires they stretch $10,000 to last for a year. The problem is compounded in that if they are truly good enough, and have the business savvy, to "create" valuable intellectual goods to make $10,000 a year consistently, they're probably going to get more and more clients and find themselves with $100,000+ a year and a 60 hours workweek. Telling people you are too busy, or declining most work, takes you off the "active" list for most clients. Which makes it hard to sustain that continuous $10k.

    Besides, living on $10k a year is a great idea when you're 25 and healthy. Living on $10k a year sucks if you find yourself with a medical condition and no health insurance (which can cost that $10k very easily). Again, if you're willing to live life simply, and die quickly, it's not a problem.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  24. Re:Shut the fuck up by sycodon · · Score: 2

    So an industry sector was made obsolete due to more innovative ways of distributing content. And?

    This is why History and in particular U.S. Economic History needs to be taught more.

    Things change. Industries die, new ones are created. Markets shift. New markets created

    Get the fuck over it.

    Or, you could go Occupy something a whine that you can't fine a decent job with your Liberal Studies degree.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  25. Re:Shut the fuck up by RazorSharp · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The problem is the new markets don't always fulfill the economic needs of the country as well as the old ones.

    One trend with technology is that it allows more to be accomplished with less labor. But the labor force is still there and needs something to sustain it. We no longer need a factory worker to put a door on a car, and another to put the hood on, and another to do the windshield. We just need one to supervise the robot that does all of this. You can't just expect a large portion of the population to commit suicide because there's no longer an economic use for them. Or maybe, as you suggest, they should just 'get the fuck over' the fact that they have no job and no money and are only alive because of food stamps.

    If only someone had warned us. Oh, wait, Kurt Vonnegut did when he wrote Player Piano half a century ago. Bill Joy did when he wrote Why The Future Doesn't Need Us a decade ago. Ray Bradbury with Fahrenheit 451. Each of these warnings were brushed aside as implausibly dystopian. Of course, there are no easy solutions and none of them involve 'getting the fuck over it.'

    --
    "From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
  26. Re:Shut the fuck up by sycodon · · Score: 2

    Ferriers
    Blacksmiths
    Typesetters
    Lamplighters
    Elevator Operators
    Milkman
    Stables
    etc.

    I don't recall any mass suicides when each of these occupations were rendered obsolete.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.